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BS: Men and Doctors
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Subject: BS: Men and Doctors From: Kim C Date: 07 Oct 03 - 04:39 PM My friend Joel, who I've known for 25+ years, called me today to tell me that a friend & business partner of his died suddenly over the weekend from an apparent heart attack, at the age of 54. He had not been feeling up to snuff for a few weeks but refused to see a doctor. What is it with men and doctors?!!!? Are you squeamish about being naked, or getting poked and prodded in private places by a stranger? Is it really worse than being dead? Don't you love the people in your lives enough to take care of yourselves? Don't you love yourselves enough? Just curious. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Chief Chaos Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:16 PM Written by a woman that's apparently never had the largest knuckle in the world shoved in a place never intended by God to have two way traffic! Men are taught from the beginning to "suck it up" and not complain. We spend our whole lives being told that it's ok to cry but try it just once and see how many people think of you as "gay" (not that theres anything wrong with that) or weak. So we feel a bit of discomfort, maybe it's a heart attack (unless it's a sharp pain in the chest its kind of hard to tell), maybe its that last Bean Burrito having its revenge. Sorry to hear about your friends loss, but in my world if a man goes to a doctor more than once a year he's a hypochondriac. Sad I agree. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Peter T. Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:19 PM Going to see a doctor for a man is like buying clothes. The worst. yours, Peter T. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: jacqui c Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:23 PM I had this problem with my ex husband. He had a family history of heart disease but virtually had to be pushed into getting a check up. It does seem to be a common thing with a lot of men - maybe because illness is seen as a sign of weakness and so is being concerned about health. The macho thing won't allow for any of those concerns. Mind you - what about when they get colds (sorry - raging flu!)!!!! Women do seem to find it easier to unload health worries with their GP on the whole. Maybe too much easier in some cases - can turn into hypochondria, although the best description of that was from Jerome K Jerome's Three Men In A Boat where he reads a medical dictionary and ends up convinced he's got every ailment but housemaid's knee! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Mr Red Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:24 PM Hmmmm the attitude of the doctor can have some bearing on it. I went to the quack for a prostate test because I believe that our UK health service should be just that - a health service, not a sickness service. His attitude was "you are too young to need the test" "Frank Zappa" I muttered "Rare" he riposted. Anyway I was there ready (and brave too) for the needle and PSA blood test and he says "we still do things digitally here". I leave you to guess the rest. And I am probably an exception but yes we are self concious and macho. Especially there. I remeber a series of American ads in trade magazine imploring men to get test for heart problems and the Tag line was "Listen to your body" And I always have...... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Amos Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:24 PM We don't do disorders, and we don't need directions. We're MEN!! We're STRONG. We're ready to take up the cudgel, solve the problem, kill the bug and unclog the plumbing and rewire the network. We'll make good things happen!! We don't have time to be affected by silly little germs!! We're TOUGH!! We're the human of last resort!! Rrrrrr!!! Hope this helps. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Kim C Date: 07 Oct 03 - 05:33 PM Chief, you've never had a gynecological exam either. Maybe the vagina has the advantage of being able to accommodate two-way traffic; however, that doesn't make the speculum any less unpleasant. Plus, women have the added bonus of being able to enjoy a yearly mammogram (or crammogram, as WYSIWYG once eloquently phrased it) after about age 40. But we kinda like to keep our boobs as long as we can, so we endure it. And aren't you men happy about that? All you worshippers at the Church of the Golden Globes, or whatever it's called? I don't care if you Men are strong as fuckin Atlas. If you have someone in your life who loves you, even if it's just a goldfish, get your ass to the doctor if you need to. If you wait too long you might be dead, and then who'd feed your goldfish? And Chief, I have never, EVER, considered that a man who shed tears was gay. All people have feelings, don't they? Like Clara said in Lonesome Dove: Men got tears in 'em, too. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: katlaughing Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:03 PM Kim, I am sorry to hear that about your friend. I would be just as angry as you, knowing that it might have been prevented. I get angry everytime I think of Rog smoking and eating too much of the bad things and the possible consequences. And, I get angry when I remember the doctor who told us both that by the time one sees something on a smoker's lungs, in an xray, it's too late to do anything anyway. THAT, above all else, leads to a fatalistic attitude, IMO, which keeps men from going to the doctor. I just hope and pray that Rog is like his tough French-Canadian ancestors and lives despite all of it. Anyway, you bet men have tears in 'em, too! kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Amos Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:14 PM YEah...we do., I was just shootin' off my mouth, Kim. Sorry. We have different muskles, but not as strong as Atlas. I dunno about no goldfishes but I have a handful of hoomans who love me, and I intend to take your advice. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Bill D Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:15 PM I don't rush to the doc for just any little thing and I'm relatively healthy, but I'm not shy, macho or stupid...if I trust the doctor, I don't mind exams...even THOSE exams, (and I have twice been prodded by women doctors). Not that it's fun, but there is far worse. I have had two sigmoidoscopies, and about due for another. I am just as strong as I need to be...*smile*...Why, I don't even mind the dentist...until I get the bill! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: artbrooks Date: 07 Oct 03 - 06:26 PM I probably go to the doctor more than I should...perhaps because my younger brother died of cancer and my father has had it (prostate cancer...now ok). I think that generalizations of any kind are dangerous. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: mack/misophist Date: 07 Oct 03 - 07:14 PM For 40 years I went to the doctor only when I had to; a note for work, for example. And he always said I was fine or that time was the only thing that would fix the problem. Now that I'm almost 60 and starting to get sick for real, those old habits persist. I hate going in for no reason. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Sorcha Date: 07 Oct 03 - 07:36 PM Well, ya know, us wimmens has 2 holes to get prodded........and believe me, they do. All ya'll men only has one, so go get it prodded and get the blood test. Sheesh. We gals get prodded in both, tits in a wringer AND the blood draw. What the hail you dangly things whining about? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Amos Date: 07 Oct 03 - 07:59 PM I'm inclined to think those tits-in-a-wringer exams probably cause as many conditions as they prevent!! I only have one body part that is nywhere near as naturally tender, soft and scrumptious as the female breast, and if anyone tried to slap it between two glass plates and clamp it in they would have to |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 07 Oct 03 - 08:00 PM It might be something to do with a mindset that says, either you're going to get better, so there's no need to worry, or you aren't going to get better, and you'd be better off not knowing. Together with an assumption that, if something is wrong, the doctor probably won't be able to fix things. It's not to do with being tough, it's to do with being scared and not liking to think about bad things. But I'm having my flu jab next week. That only involves seeing the nurse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Homeless Date: 07 Oct 03 - 10:48 PM In allopathic medicine, which is what most people in the US culture mean when they say "doctors," the usual first two treatments they recommend are "dope 'em up" or "cut it out." Very, very few (there are some) doctors have any interest in actually treating the cause of a disease - they only want to treat the symptoms. They prescribe medicine based on what kickbacks the pharmecutical companies give. They do unneeded surgeries because there's more money in it and because it deals with the "problem" faster. At 14 years old I was regularly seeing a cardiologist because of heart arhythmias. He put me on 8 different medications in numerous dosages and combinations for two years before giving up. Giving up because nothing he tried helped, nor worked as well as me just lying down and yawning. Gotta have a lot of faith in a guy who can't figure out something that's in his specialty field. I sat in his office and solved a Rubik's cube while talking to him one day - he offered me a full partnership in his practice when I graduated high school based on that ability alone. At 17 it was found that I had scoliosis. Within 2 months of diagnosis the doctor had me on the operation table and did a full spinal fusion as well as putting a 10" steel rod in my back. Years later I found out that there are half a dozen different treatments that could (should) have been tried before radical surgery. I still have problems, daily, because of that bar. I've got a blood disorder that in 35 years has been diagnosed as three different diseases/disorders, and each time the person diagnosing has said that whoever made the previous diagnosis didn't know what they were talking about. At this point, it is again at the "unknown" status. I've been in hospital rooms numerous times for various injuries and have been dealt with by doctors who couldn't read a ruler, forget which patient they are with, forget you are in the room, that can't figure out what a problem is, or say, "Well, just leave it be and see if it gets better." Do you see any reason why I would *want* to go to a doctor? EVERY SINGLE TIME in my adult life that I have had the need to interact with a doctor I have come away with the impression I've been dealing with an idiot. I would sooner put the dependence of my continued health in a computer diagnostic machine at walmart than I would a doctor. (And if you knew how I felt about Mall*Wart, that last sentence would be saying a lot.) And all this is firsthand experience. If you like, I could go into stories from when my girlfriend worked at an orthopedic surgeons office, stories my mom has from 40+ years as an RN, stories I've heard from my 3 aunts and uncles who are RNs or from the doctors I know. I could go into things I know that have happened to relatives and friends who were patients. Care to hear any of those to really boost your confidence in MDs? I'm sure there are probably a few good doctors out there, but I believe I've sacrificed enough body parts in search of one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Kim C Date: 08 Oct 03 - 09:58 AM Aw Homeless, I know a lot of doctors are idiots. There are a lot of good ones too - unfortunately, sometimes a person has to wade through the bozos first. I'm not talking about going to a doctor everytime you feel discomfort. I don't. When I hurt my foot last year, I never went. Even if I had broken it, which I probably did, what were they going to do besides tell me to stay off it, maybe set me up with one of those orthopedic booties, and get my money? I could stay off my foot on my own. I did, and it healed. Took awhile, but it would have took awhile in any case. When I started having severe dizzy spells, the first time, they went away. The second time, I went to the doctor. This had never happened before and it was just a little scary. Turns out, it was no big deal... she called it "benign positional vertigo" and prescribed me a low-dose diuretic to balance the fluids in my head. It helped. I have had very few problems with it since. (Still have to watch those spins in my dance class, though.) What I'm talking about is willfully ignoring that intuition that says There Is Something Very Wrong With My Body. It may be nothing, but then again... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Cluin Date: 08 Oct 03 - 01:49 PM Why go to a doctor when I have a perfectly good bartender? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: greg stephens Date: 08 Oct 03 - 02:03 PM I'm not convinced this is a question you can reduce to "aren't men stupid" stuff. I could name you a few people who are dead, but quite probably wouldnt be if they'd gone to the doctor when they first noticed the problem.And they are pretty evenly split between men and women. It's the sort of news none of us are keen to hear, basically, so by putting off going to find out, we end up generating exactly the situation we want to avoid. The thing is, we all walk around as living persons, however odd we may be feeling. What we are scared of is going to the doctor and being instantly converted(to ourselves and others) into dying persons. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Don Firth Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:12 PM For what it's worth--I've had some good male doctors, but with the possible exception of the orthopedic surgeon who reassembled me over three and a half years ago, most of the best physicians I've had, particularly primary care physicians, were women. I did have one female doctor who I think was the reincarnation of Lucrezia Borgia, however. She was the rehabilitation physician who followed up on the aforementioned surgery while I was in the hospital. She was brusque and rude, seemed to regard me as an unnecessary intrusion on the really important business of her day, acted like she resented any questions I asked, spent only two or three minutes with me on each occasion, and changed my insurance company $110 a crack (what the hell did she do to earn that much!??). And she had the bedside manner of a turkey vulture. But the other women doctors I've had were better than good. They generally seem to listen better and are not averse to giving thorough answers to my questions. When it comes to that periodic exam that men are supposed to get after they have passed a certain age, women doctors' fingers are usually smaller and they tend to be gentle and quick. Perhaps it's because they are subject to gynecological exams themselves, they realize that to a man, this is sort of comparable, and they apply the Golden Rule. And even if it is being performed by a woman, believe me, there is absolutely nothing erotic about this procedure. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Rapparee Date: 08 Oct 03 - 03:45 PM In about 20 minutes I'm off the doctor. Male. Simple checkup. For more years than I care to count I went to women doctors, and I still would be doing so if there was one around here. So I go to a male doctor who practices in a clinic run by a female doctor. I have no great desire to leave a lovely widow, especially when I'm younger than she is, anytime soon. I had a colonoscopy last July (stoned, man, stoned!!) and I while I'd prefer to avoid digital prostate exams, well, better digitized than dead (but I'll still take a PSA blood test as my first option). Can't die yet, I've got too much to see and do. If any doctor, of either sex, told me to "suck it up and deal with it" I'd walk. I see no reason to put up with crap like that from anyone, male or female, gay or straight, old or young. My friend Steve went out for high school soccer as a goalie and caught a spiked boot (this was back in the days of metal spikes) right in the ol' jewels. Wasn't intentional, but it did put him on the ground in considerable pain. The coach ran over and yelled at him to "Run it off! Jump up and down!" Steve tossed his cookies all over the coach and staggered off the field, never to return. Can't say I disagreed with him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Kim C Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:27 PM I don't think men are stupid anyhow. I adore men. Most of the time. But it just seems like men are more reluctant to see a doctor than women are. Not always though. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Oct 03 - 04:44 PM My fvaourite doctor was a women. When I was sick with an ulcer and off work, I used to go in every couple of weeks, and she'd say "do you feel you'd like to go back to work", and I'd say "No", which was God's truth, and she'd sign me off for a few more weeks. And then one dreadful day she didn't say that - she said "Do you think you're fit enough to go back to work", and being honest, I had to say "Yes", and that was it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: mack/misophist Date: 08 Oct 03 - 08:25 PM The other day I was talking to a board certified kidney specialist who also has an internal medicine practice. She said the regular practice was necessary for her because none of her kidney patients were ever going to get well. This may be the reason some people avoid doctors. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 08 Oct 03 - 08:31 PM Kidneys might not recover, but kidney patients regularly do with the help of transplants. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: katlaughing Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:58 AM According to my kidney specialist they can also get better by keeping their blood pressure down and watching what they eat and drink besides have angioplasty and other procedures which may help. She and her partner are kept so busy (the only two that I know of on the entire western slope of Colorado; at the very least in an area of over 100,000 people) that she'd never have time for any other type of practice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: mack/misophist Date: 09 Oct 03 - 01:37 AM 1. She's not a surgeon. 2. Board certified doctors usually get the worst cases because they're the best trained. (Certification is an extra level of testing, much more stringent than mere licenseing) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Rapparee Date: 09 Oct 03 - 08:49 AM My visit came up clean (except for the leperosy, the yaws, the lues, the great pox, the necrotising fasciitis, the...no, really, it came up clean). I'm as healthy as can be expected from someone my age who's overweight and out of shape. I can't do anything about the age except add to it, but I can lose weight and get back into some sort of decent physical conditioning. Yes, I do take some medicines, mostly for allergies. (Funny, I never had allergies when I smoked, but the doctor said that I shouldn't start again just because of the allergies.) The first rule of medicine is "First, do no harm." Being human and therefore fallible physicians are going to miss diagnoses. The second rule in medicine is, or should be, "Only the pathologist can make a certain diagnosis most of the time." Homeless, how you were treated also depends upon when you were treated. I was once given chloromycetin for pneumonia; it certainly wouldn't happen today! My wife was given whole-body x-rays for treatment of poison ivy; ten years later she developed thyroid cancer -- again, such treatment wouldn't be given today. Would I use a woman doctor? You betcha! Most of my life has been spent in the care of women doctors, and I too have found them to be caring and responsive, and better listeners, than most men. Perhaps that is changing, though, and I hope so. The fella I saw yesterday listened and seemed to care, even taking additional time when I remembered a question I had after he left the room. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Grab Date: 09 Oct 03 - 08:59 AM Kim, it's bcos parents, grandparents, teachers, school-friends and everyone else teach boys that "being brave" is good, and "being a wimp" is bad. If every woman here can honestly say she's never told her son "don't be such a baby", I'll accept that. Until then, men will try to "tough it out" bcos that's what society tells them to do. It's certainly getting better, so men now will generally go to the doctor if there's something actually wrong. But if it's something minor (eg. skin rash, cough, etc), they generally won't bother. If "not feeling up to snuff" means generally tired or lacking in energy, that isn't something we'll generally go to a doctor for bcos it's not something that's generally considered serious. Chances are the doctor wouldn't think it was serious either. Graham. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: RichM Date: 09 Oct 03 - 11:32 AM For years I suffered bouts of abdominal pain, that I minimized as chronic constipation. I self treated until I HAD to go to emergency--twice--when I was diagnosed as having acute appendicitis and peritonitis! After a month in hospital I think I learned my lesson. That was 20 years ago. Currently, I am waiting for my heart specialist to consult with others about my choices: angioplasty(minimum intervention) into my heart, or full blown open heart surgery. I'm just happy that I have been getting regular checkups these last 20 years.... Rich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Kim C Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:12 PM Maybe it is the same gene that keeps men from asking for directions. ;-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: RichM Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:24 PM Kim, that's it! Rich |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Rapparee Date: 09 Oct 03 - 12:58 PM Hey, I'll ask for directions even when my wife won't! Maybe it's because I was raised by three women after my father died when I was 5.... Or maybe it's because as my wife says: I spend so much time lost anyway.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 09 Oct 03 - 01:09 PM But you don't want anyone reading "none of her kidney patients were ever going to get well" and taking that to mean that, if you've been diagnosed as having a dud kidney, it means you've had it, misophist. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Amos Date: 09 Oct 03 - 01:09 PM Ask for directions? Rapaire, you sure you aren't a little peculiar? **bg** A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Hrothgar Date: 10 Oct 03 - 04:56 AM Well, I'd sooner ask for directions than go to a doctor, but there isn't much in it. :-) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: gnu Date: 10 Oct 03 - 05:14 AM Lose weight, quit smoking, quit drinking, less meat, more fruit and vegetables, no salt.... nag, nag, nag, nag, nag !!! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: DMcG Date: 10 Oct 03 - 06:41 AM [Male typing] What to you do when the doctor gives advice that you become convinced is wrong? I have very occasional asthma attacks - less than one severe attack every couple of years, but some breathlessness maybe every couple of months. My doctor put me on a different inhaler and within a week I developed chest pains. I went back and reported this. The doctor checked his books and that was not a recognised side effect, so off I went for a four day spell in hospital with suspected heart problems - quickly discounted - then a suspected blood clot in the lung, which was eventually either discounted or thought to be so small that it had now dispersed. While in hospital I didn't use the inhaler and all was well. As I had suspected the inhaler all along, I didn't use it until I next went to see the doctor after for a checkup after the hospital. He told me off for not using the spray, so I started it again ... and about a week later the chest pains started to occur again. I stopped the spray without going to the hospital and the pains disappeared again. Now, what do we make of that? I am convinced that that specific inhaler does not agree with me for whatever reason. My doctor was certainly doing his job - checking and double checking for known side effects, sending me to hospital and so on - but in the end his view was that the research should be relied on more than the symptoms I was experiencng. (Changing doctors, by the way, is not really an option because apart from this one incident I've had 25+ years of good experience for myself and the rest of the family.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Rapparee Date: 10 Oct 03 - 07:48 AM Peculiar? Well, Amos, I've been called a lot of things, but "peculiar" is pretty mild. Let's see: strange, odd, eccentric, different, weird, nonconforming, bibliomaniacal, openminded, nonjudgemental, queer, ridiculous, silly, dumb, stupid, bohemian, geeky, dweebish, butt-ugly, riparian (I don't think that the person knew what that meant), and a lot of thing I won't put here. Peculiar...yeah, that fits in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Oct 03 - 08:02 AM Asking for directions. The problem for me is that is that, when I ask for directions they always seem to come back in the way that confuses me -"Turn left and then third right and then go on till you come to a telephone box..." and so forth. I don't work that way, I need a mental map of where places are, not a narrative of how to get there. Finding a place without directions means I build up this kind of mental map, so I know where I am and how to get back home and so on. I suspect that this kind of thing is to do with how our brains are wired, and that it lies behind the way men often prefer not to ask the way, rather than with not wanting to interact with people, or male pride and all that, which is what is often assumed. (And I suspect that there are plenty of men whose brains are wired the other way, and plenty of women who work like me in this respect.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: Amos Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:14 AM LOL Rapaire! I have inherited a similar string of adjectives over the years!. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:09 AM Well, DMcG, doctors don't know everything. Sometimes they think they do. If you are pleased with this doctor on the whole and don't want to change, I'd just sit down with him/her and say, look here, buddy, this is what's going on, and I want to make sure you're LISTENING to me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: DMcG Date: 10 Oct 03 - 11:21 AM Yes, Kim, that's pretty much what I did :-) At the moment, though, we are at a bit of an impasse, in that he believes this inhaler is the best for me, and I'm not prepared to use it. We are agreeing to differ until something changes things. (I'm using the UK NHS, so things are fairly easy. I wonder if things would be different privately in the UK, or in the US, when there might be lots of sueing opportunities or perhaps legal ramifications of not taking the doctors advice.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 10 Oct 03 - 12:24 PM Which inhaler DMcG? Thelast year or so our doctor has moved over from Ventolin to one called Becotide and another called Salbutanol. It might be a good idea for DMcG to hunt around on the net and see if there's any stuff about other people having these problems. Doctors don't always like being second guessed by patients, but it's your body. Checking with the books and saying "It's not a recognised side effect" is a pretty strange way to do it - if everyone did that, no side effects would ever be turned up. If something like that looks like an unreported side-effect seems to be present, following a change in medicament, the right thing for a doctor to do is to report it and probably go back on the previous medicine if possible to see what happens then. Here's a link to NHS Online - and that's got links to other useful people, including the National Asthma Campaign. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: jaze Date: 10 Oct 03 - 09:31 PM Kim C, I'm sorry about your friend's loss. But I must clarify something... I am absolutely convinced that men get worse colds than women!! I told my wife that and she thinks I'm nuts. Can you imagine? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: HuwG Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:19 AM I must relate the two unpleasant experiences I have had with doctors. I lived for a few years in a rather run-down part of Sheffield (in the UK). On one winter's day, I slipped on a patch of ice and injured my back. I went to the local doctor, to ask for an X-ray. He looked at my details and said, "You're twenty-seven and not married yet. Is there something wrong with you ?" If this was his attempt at humour, I was not amused. I replied, "No, I'm not married, but I'm seeing someone who is. Does that count ?" A few years afterwards, when I had moved to the other side of the Pennines, I started suffering from a persistent chest infection; coughing up lots of white and green stuff, etc. Over the next six weeks, I visited the doctor three times. On the first visit, he said that the condition would probably clear itself up soon (even though it had already lasted a month). On the second, he recommended that I take two aspirins, or words to that effect. On the third, he prescribed some childrens' cough linctus which had as much effect as a watering can on a forest fire. I changed to a different practice. On my first visit to the new quack, he pulled out the stethoscope, listened and said, "You've been walking around with pleurisy for three months". Heavy-duty antibiotics (erythromycin ?) fixed things. I didn't take the matter of the original neglect further, but I heard some years later that another doctor at the same practice where I had received such cavalier treatment had resigned after similar complaints of malpractice. To be fair to the medical profession, that is two cases out of the many dozens of occasions I have used the NHS. They have been more than patient with my long list of misadventures (rugby and skiing injuries) and other ailments. (We are still arguing about the cause of the gout which afflicted me last year. I may enjoy life to the full, but I do not put gin on my cornflakes, as they implied). In short, the NHS is a brilliant idea, in my humble opinion. I would abhor the thought of it being replaced by any private medical insurance scheme. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: catspaw49 Date: 11 Oct 03 - 06:12 PM I think you all know my history well enough and I've stayed away from this thread as well. But no one has said it exactly so I'll say it.......try FEAR!!! Fear that you are "not the man you once were" more than anuthing else. Sure there is fear of death and all of that, but far more to the point is that something going wrong with your body shows you are mortal, WEAK (a no-no), getting old, etc. This is the same fear that causes a lot of false recovery talk as well. Just an opinion...... Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: GUEST,A Woman Date: 12 Oct 03 - 02:38 AM Honestly, the people I know who don't go to doctors (including myself) are women. I found growing up that many (male) doctors treated me like I was a hypochondriac even though it took getting very sick for me to finally drag myself into a doctor's office. I had pneumonia and was sent home by an arrogant male doctor who talked to me as though I was wasting my time. I had to finally go to another (also male) doctor who told me I had pneumonia and that I should have been taking antibiotics. The first arrogant male doctor told me I was making up the symptoms of a bladder infection.(He was one of my GPs as a child. One of two partners.) Again, I finally went for a second opinion because I got so sick and was treated with powerful antibiotics and took weeks to get better. This all happened when I was pretty young. Years later, I found out my sister and my mother were treated like that by the same guy. My brothers said they never had a problem. He always took them seriously and treated them right away. Neither my sister nor my mother nor I are whiners. By nature, we ignore pain and illness and just wait it out. That's what really bothers me. He treated us as though we were hysterical hypochondriacs when none of us would even go near a doctor's office until we were desperate. He wasn't the only doctor who made me feel terrible for seeking help. He's the one I remember best. My male friends and family generally go to the doctor when they should without thinking about it. I don't think any of them have ever been made to feel stupid about making an appointment. I still feel a profound sense of shame about going and can't bring myself to go to a doctor unless I'm desperate. I don't think I've had a general checkup in 27 years. I know that's stupid but just can't stand the thought of being examined by someone who can barely conceal their contempt for me. It might sound like I have a chip on my shoulder but I honestly don't. I've just had bad experiences that have stayed with me and when I've let logic prevail and forced myself to go when I really needed to, I've had more bad experiences. Not just with that childhood doctor, either. It's not a matter of perception either. I mean I've had TRULY arrogant, sneering, condescending doctors who made me feel as though I had no business seeking help. I realize there are excellent doctors out there but I think I've had bad luck and it's left a deep impression of shame and fear. I honestly think that with doctors, I've just had a lot of bad luck and it's made me afraid to go. Anyway, I know a few women who feel the same. And no men. This probably has no statistical significance. It's just my own experience. But there you have it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: DMcG Date: 12 Oct 03 - 04:39 AM While my eldest sun was a year or so old, he had a rattle with a big sucker so you could stick it to his high chair. Like many fathers, I once stuck it to my forehead, couldn't get it off and ended up with a perfectly circular bruise about 10cm across right in the middle of my forehead. I had to go to my doctor (NOT the one mentioned above!) for some other reason later in the week and, after describing all these other symptoms in detail the doctor ignored them completely and asked if I had ever considered plastic surgery 'for the birthmark'. I can't say it inspired much confidence. Do you get perfectly circular birthmarks? (I gather a couple of doctors also stuck these toys to their head a year or two later, and published an article in 'The Lancet' about it!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Men and Doctors From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 12 Oct 03 - 12:26 PM Maybe that doctor of yours also had a thing about not believing in any side-effect until it had been writtten up in The Lancet. In this case a side-effect of rattles with big suckers... |
