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Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown

Charley Noble 12 Oct 03 - 04:45 PM
Charley Noble 13 Oct 03 - 08:34 AM
Charley Noble 13 Oct 03 - 02:17 PM
Charley Noble 14 Oct 03 - 08:25 AM
Charley Noble 14 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM
radriano 14 Oct 03 - 07:45 PM
GUEST,Charley Noble 15 Oct 03 - 10:28 AM
Dave Bryant 15 Oct 03 - 12:21 PM
Charley Noble 15 Oct 03 - 12:36 PM
Charley Noble 15 Oct 03 - 04:36 PM
Snuffy 16 Oct 03 - 12:38 PM
GUEST,MMario 16 Oct 03 - 01:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 03 - 01:37 PM
GUEST,MMario 16 Oct 03 - 01:41 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 03 - 02:14 PM
GUEST 16 Oct 03 - 02:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Oct 03 - 02:59 PM
Charley Noble 16 Oct 03 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,JudyB 16 Oct 03 - 05:15 PM
Charley Noble 17 Oct 03 - 05:05 PM
Charley Noble 17 Oct 03 - 05:37 PM
Charley Noble 18 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM
McGrath of Harlow 18 Oct 03 - 06:27 PM
Charley Noble 19 Oct 03 - 08:55 AM
Charley Noble 19 Oct 03 - 01:57 PM
Charley Noble 20 Oct 03 - 03:39 PM
Charley Noble 21 Oct 03 - 04:23 PM
Charley Noble 14 Mar 04 - 11:35 AM
GUEST 14 Mar 04 - 03:56 PM
Charley Noble 14 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM
Dead Horse 15 Mar 04 - 08:11 AM
Charley Noble 15 Mar 04 - 08:25 AM
Charley Noble 18 Mar 04 - 04:34 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Jan 10 - 01:44 PM
Ross Campbell 27 Jan 10 - 09:07 AM
Charley Noble 27 Jan 10 - 09:27 AM
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Subject: Lyr Add: ROLLING DOWN TO SAILORTOWN (Charlie Ipcar
From: Charley Noble
Date: 12 Oct 03 - 04:45 PM

On another thread where I was soliciting titles for a proposed CD of Sailortown songs, I got a lot of fine suggestions, and our working CD title is now "Roll & GO: Rolling Down to Sailortown." Now I'm working up some verses for the different Sailortown around the world, using an old verse from Hong Kong's Sailortown as a base. The old verse ran:

We'll have another drink before the boat sails off,
We'll have another drink before the boat sails off,
We'll go to Mother Rackett's and we'll pawn our monkey-jackets,
And we'll have another drink before the boat sails off!

According to Stan Hugill, Mother Rackett (or Hackett) was the propriator of a sailors' drinking dive and boarding house in Hong Kong in the 1870's.


ROLLING DOWN TO SAILORTOWN

(Words by Charlie Ipcar, © 2003
Tune: traditional "Sailors' Hornpipe")

Chorus:

We're rolling down to Sailortown,
We're rolling down to Sailortown;
We'll have our run ashore,
An' then go back for more,
We're rolling down to Sailortown!

We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong,
We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong;
We'll go down to Mother Rackett's.
An' we'll pawn our monkey-jackets;
We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong! (CHO)

We're rolling down to London Town,
We're rolling down to London Town,
We'll cruise through Tiger Bay,
No one can bar our way;
We're rolling down to London Town! (CHO)

We're rolling down to Amsterdam,
We're rolling down to Amsterdam,
They say there is a maid
Who is mistress of her trade;
We're rolling down to Amsterdam. (CHO)

We're rolling down to Old New York,
We're rolling down to Old New York;
Them South Street gals are sweet,
And we'll sweep them off their feet;
We're rolling down to Old New York! (CHO)

We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast,
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast;
All them pretty waiter girls,
We'll give them all a whirl;
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast. (CHO)

We're rolling down to Callao,
We're rolling down to Callao;
If we meet with Sarefina,
Our pockets will be cleaner;
We're rolling down to Callao. (CHO)

Alternative verses or new ones would be greatly appreciated.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 08:34 AM

Sailortown Notes:

Once at sea, sailors would spend any free time telling stories of their adventures ashore in the saloons, music halls, and whore houses of what became known as "Sailortown." The Sailortowns were located adjacent to dockyards all over the world and had their own colorful names: Paradise Street in Liverpool, Tiger Bay in London, The Barbary Coast in San Francisco, South Street in New York City, Calle Marina in Callao, Circular Quay in Sydney, The Bund in Shanghai or Yoshiwara in Tokyo. All were famous for their ability to fleece the sailor of his hard earned wages in return for liquor, entertainment, sexual favors, and a few souvenirs. And when the sailor's money was all gone, there were shipping agents or crimps who would arrange to ship him out again in exchange for his advance wages. If the sailor was reluctant to ship out, he was often forced or shanghaied by the crimp and his crew of runners. Those were the lucky sailors, the ones who survived Sailortown to sail once more. Others were simply robbed and murdered, never to be heard from again.

The major source materials for re-exploring Sailortown in an armshair fashion are C. Fox Smith's SAILOR-TOWN DAYS, SHIP ALLEY and ANCHOR LANE; and Stan Hugill's SAILORTOWN.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 13 Oct 03 - 02:17 PM

Well, as usual I've been busy modifying some of the above verses and adding new ones. Hey, this is fun! Give it a try.

Revised Chorus:

We're rolling down to Sailortown,
We're rolling down to Sailortown;
We'll have our run ashore,
An' the flashgirls they will roar;
We're rolling down to Sailortown!

Revised verses:

We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks,
We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks;
We love them South Street girls,
And we'll give them all a whirl;
We're rolling down to Old New York! (CHO)

We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast,
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast;
Oh, they say that it's terrific
When you're cruising up Pacific;
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast. (CHO)

New verses:

We're rolling down to Callao,
We're rolling down to Callao;
We'll steer to Madame Gashee's
And at anchor there we'll lay;
We're rolling down to Callao. (CHO)

We're rolling down to old Maui,
We're rolling down to old Maui;
We'll paint them beaches red,
Wake with a big, fat, aching head;
We're rolling down to old Maui.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 08:25 AM

Still tinkering:

Revised Chorus:

We're rolling down to Sailortown,
We're rolling down to Sailortown;
We'll have our run ashore,
For the flashgirls we adore;
And we're rolling down to Sailortown!

Revised verses:

We're rolling down to Limehouse Reach,
We're rolling down to Limehouse Reach,
We'll cruise through Tiger Bay,
And the girls will spend our pay;
We're rolling down to Limehouse Reach! (CHO)

We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks,
We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks;
We love them South Street girls,
And we'll give them all a whirl;
We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks! (CHO)

Now what could we do with Sydney and Circular Quay?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 04:10 PM

We're rolling down to the Liverpoole Docks,
We're rolling down to the Liverpoole Docks,
With them Judies all in tow,
Down Paradise Street we'll go;
We're rolling down to the Liverpoole Docks! (CHO)

What a bunch of lazy layabouts! Not a single suggestion. Sure makes trolling for verses discouraging.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: radriano
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 07:45 PM

Hi Charley,

I'm not ignoring your thread - have been quite busy at work since I've started doing three jobs here. The California Geological Survey has been slashed to ribbons by the budget this year and now there's Arnold! I barely have time to glance through the threads at Mudcat these days. Problem is that I only have access to the Internet at work. It may be a few days before I can get back to this.

Radriano


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: GUEST,Charley Noble
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 10:28 AM

Radriano-

Damn work does get in the way some days! Maybe Arnold would appreciate some heavy hauling shanties.

We've lost power this morning due to a heavy rain storm. Life is hard for us folks ashore on a day like this! I only have Judy's laptop to work with, with it's tiny keyboard.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:21 PM

Any connection between Mother Rackett and Sally Rackett ?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 12:36 PM

Dave-

Hugill doesn't make any connection in his brief note in SAILORTOWN but he also says her name may have been Mother Hackett; the source was a Captain Patrick Tayleur, originally quoted by Doerflinger in SHANTYMEN AND SHANTYBOYS.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 04:36 PM

From Doerflinger's notes in SONGS OF THE SAILOR AND LUMBERMAN to "We'll Have Another Drink before the Boat Shoves Off":

"The next song did double duty, according to the singer, Captain Patrick Tayleur: it was not only a drinking song, but was used in the dogwatches to accompany the dancing of the sailor's hornpipe when no one on board had concertina or a fiddle. The Mother Rackett of the ditty, Tayleur said, was well known about 1875 in Hong Kong, where she ran a waterfront saloon. Judging by the tone of the song, it seems likely that it was current among naval men and sailors from the British tea clippers in the later years of these beautiful ships."

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 12:38 PM

We're rolling down to Tilbury town,
We're rolling down to Tilbury town,
Twenty-four hours with Kettle Jane,
Then outward bound again;
We're rolling down to Tilbury town! (CHO)


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Subject: Tune Add: WE'LL HAVE ANOTHER DRINK BEFORE THE BOAT
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 01:27 PM

This is one of the tunes I DID NOT transcribe from Doerflinger - so I guess it's time to do so.

X:1
T:We'll have another drink before the boat shoves off
C:from the singing of Captain Patrick Tayluer
N:Doerflinger 'Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman' - pp167
I:abc2nwc
M:4/4
L:1/8
K:D
z6G2|F A A A d d d =c|B G G2z2B2|
w:We'll have an-oth-er drink be-fore the boat shoves off, We'll
B e e e e f e d|^c2A2A2B c|
w:have an-oth-er drink be-fore the boat shoves off, And we'll
d c B A B A G F|G F E D C B, A, A,|
w:go to Moth-er Rack-ett's and we'll pawn our mon-key jack-ets And we'll
B, D D D E G F E|F2D2D2z2
w:have an-oth-er drink be-fore the boat shoves off

Songs of the Sailor and Lumberman


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 01:37 PM

Rolling down to Cheyenne town?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 01:41 PM

We're Rolling down to Plymouth town
We're Rolling down to Plymouth town
We'll carouse on Plymouth Rock
and we'll give that town a shock
We're rolling down to Plymouth town!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 02:14 PM

Surprised that 'The Girls of Newfoundland" is not in the DT, or at least I couldn't find it. Could be mixed in with the Rolling Down chorus.

And now we're anchored in Harbour Grace,
The land we do adore;
We'll now la'nch out our long-boats
And lusty pull ashore.

Where we drank liquor there all day,
We'll drink an o'erflowing can;
We'll drink a health to all seamen bold
That sails from Newfoundland.

I think I will post the 'hull' song in a new thread.

Also no mention of Lovely Annie in the DT

Good-bye my lovely Annie,
Ten thousand times adieu,
I'm going away tomorrow morning
Once more to part from you.

----
Our good ship she is tossed about,
Her rigging is all tore,
But still I live in hopes to see you
In Newfoundland once more.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 02:27 PM

I think I know 'Lovely Annie' as 'Darling Nancy'

seems to be a Newfoundland variant of 'Holy ground' ,yes?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 02:59 PM

Guest- yes, it is. But not the Nancy in Shanty By The Way.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 04:09 PM

Wow! Interest!

I think the concept's a good one, for a song of thid type. Clearly one can add a set of verses for your favorite Sailortowns, streets, pubs, girls, and other historical characters.

Thanks, MMario, for the musical transcription. By the way, shouldn't a sailor be "getting his rocks off" at Plymouth?

Or you can have fun with outrageous inland places as Q suggests such as Cheyenne.

We're rolling down to Timuktu,
We're rolling down to Timuktu,
Up the Niger we will run,
Humping camels is such fun;
We're rolling down to Timuktu!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: GUEST,JudyB
Date: 16 Oct 03 - 05:15 PM

How can you be rolling down while running up??


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Oct 03 - 05:05 PM

Judy, my dear, with enough dark rum as fuel, miracles are possible.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Oct 03 - 05:37 PM

Grrrr!

That should be "TimBuktu" in the last verse above. You would think that spellchek would have caught that.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Oct 03 - 05:34 PM

Well, here's a candidate for the Sydney verse:

We're rolling down to Sydney Town,
We're rolling down to Sydney Town;
At Circular Quay we'll have a spree,
With a Sheila on each knee;
We're rolling down to Sydney Town!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 18 Oct 03 - 06:27 PM

We're rolling down to New Orleans,
Rolling down to New Orleans,
We'll be fighting up and down
When we turn the ship around,
We're rolling down to New Orleans.

"A custom of the New Orleans traders, long established by tradition, was the following. Just after a ship had left the watefront and was heading down the river under tow, a battle would break out between the crowd before the mast and the afterguard, a battle to test which side was the superior."
(Sailortown - Stan Hugill.)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Oct 03 - 08:55 AM

McGrath-

Interesting point but your verse needs Hugill's clarification to make any sense to listeners. Of course, a lot of the other verses above have equally obscure references and we do need verses from the Gulf ports.

I think "Mobile Bay" deserves a verse, given its role as the "Shanty Mart" ascribed to it by Hugill. Some cleaver play on words relating to "screwing cotton all the day," a reference to the giant screw-jacks that were used to further compress bales of cotton so they could be more efficiently be crammed into a ship's hold. Fire Maringo!

There are no West Indies veses! "Shin-Bone Al" is sadly neglected. Where is Sally when we neer her?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 19 Oct 03 - 01:57 PM

Try this verse out:

We're rolling down to Kingston Town,
We're rolling down to Kingston Town;
We'll have a round with Sally Brown,
Shin Bone Alley's where we're bound;
We're rolling down to Kingston Town!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 03:39 PM

Here's an alternative verse for New Orleans:

We're rolling down to New Orleans,
We're rolling down to New Orleans;
There's many pretty girls I've seen,
None can beat my Cajun queen;
We're rolling down to New Orleans!

And one for Mobile Bay:

We're rolling down to Mobile Bay;
We're rolling down to Mobile Bay;
We'll screw cotton all the day,
Drink and dance the night away;
We're rolling down to Mobile Bay!

Any other candidate verses?

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 04:23 PM

To sum up what we have at this point:

Words by Charlie Ipcar, © 2003
Tune: traditional Sailors' Hornpipe

Rolling Down to Sailortown

Chorus:

We're rolling down to Sailortown,
We're rolling down to Sailortown;
We'll have a run ashore,
For them flashgirls we adore;
And we're rolling down to Sailortown!

We're rolling down to London Town,
We're rolling down to London Town,
We'll cruise through Tiger Bay,
And at anchor there we'll lay;
We're rolling down to London Town!

We're rolling down to the Liverpool Docks,
We're rolling down to the Liverpool Docks,
With them Judies all in tow,
Down Paradise Street we'll go;
We're rolling down to the Liverpool Docks!

We're rolling down to Amsterdam,
We're rolling down to Amsterdam,
They say there is a maid
Who is mistress of her trade;
We're rolling down to Amsterdam!

We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks,
We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks;
We love them South Street girls,
And we'll give them all a whirl;
We're rolling down to the Bowery Docks!

We're rolling down to Mobile Bay;
We're rolling down to Mobile Bay;
We'll screw cotton all the day,
Drink and dance the night away;
We're rolling down to Mobile Bay!

We're rolling down to New Orleans,
We're rolling down to New Orleans;
There's many pretty girls I've seen,
None can beat my Cajun queen;
We're rolling down to New Orleans!

We're rolling down to Kingston Town,
We're rolling down to Kingston Town;
Another round with Sally Brown,
Shin Bone Alley's where we're bound;
We're rolling down to Kingston Town!

We're rolling down to Callao,
We're rolling down to Callao;
If we meet with Sarefina,
Our pockets will be cleaner;
We're rolling down to Callao.

We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast,
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast;
Oh, they say that it's terrific
When you're cruising up Pacific;
We're rolling down to The Barbary Coast.

We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong,
We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong;
We'll go down to Mother Rackett's.
An' we'll pawn our monkey-jackets;
We're rolling down to Old Hong Kong!

We're rolling down to old Maui,
We're rolling down to old Maui;
We'll paint them beaches red,
Wake with a big, fat, aching head;
We're rolling down to old Maui!

We're rolling down to Sydney Town,
We're rolling down to Sydney Town;
For sure, it grieved me mind,
To leave Nancy Blair behind;
We're rolling down to Sydney Town! (CHO)

Other verses and alternatives:

McGrath:

Date: 18 Oct 03 - 06:27 PM

We're rolling down to New Orleans,
Rolling down to New Orleans,
We'll be fighting up and down
When we turn the ship around,
We're rolling down to New Orleans.

"A custom of the New Orleans traders, long established by tradition, was the following. Just after a ship had left the watefront
and was heading down the river under tow, a battle would break out between the crowd before the mast and the afterguard, a
battle to test which side was the superior." (Sailortown - Stan Hugill.)

Charley Noble:

We're rolling down to Sydney Town,
We're rolling down to Sydney Town;
At Circular Quay we'll have a spree,
With a Sheila on each knee;
We're rolling down to Sydney Town!

We're rolling down to Timbuktu,
We're rolling down to Timbuktu,
Up the Niger we will run,
Humping camels is such fun;
We're rolling down to Tibmuktu!

MMario:

We're Rolling down to Plymouth Town,
We're Rolling down to Plymouth Town;
We'll carouse on Plymouth Rock,
And we'll give that town a shock;
We're rolling down to Plymouth Town!

Snuffy:

We're rolling down to Tilbury Town,
We're rolling down to Tilbury Town;
Twenty-four hours with Kettle Jane,
Then outward bound again;
We're rolling down to Tilbury Town!

I think that's about it, unless someone has a verse for Bombay.

Cheerily,
Charles Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:35 AM

Well, I've cooked up a Bombay verse:

We're rolling down to old Bombay,
Yes, we're rolling down to old Bombay;
Now of the pox you needn't worry,
If you always use some curry,
And we're rolling down to old Bombay!

Now we need one for Table Bay, Cape Town, and we're home free!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 03:56 PM

I'm afraid I have problems connecting Tiger Bay with any London anchorage.
It may be ignorance on my part, but aint Tiger Bay off the Welsh coast?
(please feel free to educate me, bg)
Suggest instead:-
We're rolling down to London Town,
We're rolling down to London Town,
We'll drop our mudhook in the Nore
Then go looking for a whore (Soon we'll be ashore)
We're rolling down to London Town!

And is our sailor gonna "find himself a honey, that'll help him spend his money"?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 14 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM

Guest-

At least according to Hugill there were many "Tiger Bays" including the one in the London Docks area centered around Ratcliffe Highway, Cable Street, and Wellclose Square in the early 1800's (SAILORTOWN, p. 118)

However, there's plenty of room in this song for more verses, or even a set of verses for each sailortown. Go for it.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Dead Horse
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 08:11 AM

Guest above was myself, not seeing cookie absent. Apologies here.
Thanks Charley, I MUST get that book!

Last verse?
We're Rolling home to (present location)
We're Rolling home to (******* ****)
Its one more pull & then belay
And step ashore to collect our pay
We're rolling home to (forgotten already?)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 15 Mar 04 - 08:25 AM

Deadhorse-

Not to worry!

Your best chance for picking up a copy of Sailortown is from a used book website as it's long out of print. There are also 3 out of print books by C. Fox Smith with short stories based on sailortown: Sailortown Days, Ship Alley, and Anchor Lane.

I like your thoughts about the last verse. We might then modulate into C. Fox Smith's "So Long (All Coil Down)." We'll have another sailor's folk opera yet!

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 04:34 PM

Well, here's my last verse, the one for Cape Town. Then it's back home to England:

We're rolling down to Table Bay,
Yes, we're rolling down to Table Bay;
On Cape Smoke we'll lose our minds,
Then leave Cape Town far behind,
And we're rolling down to Table Bay! (CHO)

"Cape Smoke" according to Hugill is the fire water sailors would buy when they were really hard up, with disastrous results.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jan 10 - 01:44 PM

Captain Patrick Tayleur, 1856-1937+. The NY Times had an article on him, 81st birthday, but I cannot access, not being a subscriber.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 09:07 AM

Hi, Charley

re anon GUEST's post 14 Mar 04 querying the location of Tiger Bay -

The only Tiger Bay I ever heard of is in Cardiff (was? it appears to have been renamed for cosmetic reasons in the re-imaging of Cardiff's waterfront area) - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Bay
especially the lines "Tiger Bay had a reputation for being a tough and dangerous area. Merchant seamen arrived in Cardiff from all over the world, only staying for as long as it took to discharge and reload their ships. Consequently the area became the Red-light district of Cardiff, and many murders and lesser crimes went unsolved and unpunished, the perpetrators having sailed for other ports. However, locals who lived and stayed in the area describe a far friendlier place."

A couple of lines further on there's this - "In Victorian times, Tiger Bay bore a distinctly rough reputation. The name "Tiger Bay" was applied in popular literature and slang (especially that of sailors) to any dock or seaside neighborhood which shared a similar notoriety for danger." which may explain the Hugill reference. I can't tell from his references to the "London Tiger Bay" whether people actually referred to the area as such, or whether he is using it as a generic term.

Ross


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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Rolling Down to Sailortown
From: Charley Noble
Date: 27 Jan 10 - 09:27 AM

Ross-

With Hugill, his reference to "Tiger Bay" in London may well have been generic, and, I suppose, it may have been generic among the sailors of the time.

I doubt that "sailortown" appeared on any city maps, although Masefield may have introduced the term in the early 1900's, later to be reinforced by C. Fox Smith and Hugill.

Charley Noble


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