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Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?

Guy Wolff 27 Oct 03 - 04:58 PM
Linda Kelly 27 Oct 03 - 05:07 PM
Burke 27 Oct 03 - 05:25 PM
Desdemona 27 Oct 03 - 05:58 PM
Guy Wolff 27 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM
Burke 27 Oct 03 - 06:45 PM
Guy Wolff 27 Oct 03 - 09:10 PM
Bob Bolton 27 Oct 03 - 09:22 PM
John Routledge 27 Oct 03 - 09:31 PM
Linda Kelly 28 Oct 03 - 02:42 AM
fogie 28 Oct 03 - 04:49 AM
Guy Wolff 29 Oct 03 - 10:26 AM
Dave Bryant 29 Oct 03 - 11:48 AM
Mary Humphreys 29 Oct 03 - 12:07 PM
Guy Wolff 29 Oct 03 - 06:42 PM
LadyJean 30 Oct 03 - 12:25 AM
The Fooles Troupe 30 Oct 03 - 01:46 AM
Ringer 30 Oct 03 - 05:03 AM
Guy Wolff 30 Oct 03 - 10:54 AM
Guy Wolff 02 Nov 03 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Compton 04 Nov 03 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Bill Kennedy 04 Nov 03 - 04:28 PM
Lanfranc 04 Nov 03 - 06:59 PM
Guy Wolff 04 Nov 03 - 07:58 PM
Susanne (skw) 05 Nov 03 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,leeneia 05 Nov 03 - 10:37 PM
Kudzuman 05 Nov 03 - 11:06 PM
smallpiper 06 Nov 03 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIES BAND 06 Nov 03 - 10:54 AM
Guy Wolff 06 Nov 03 - 11:57 AM
GUEST,petr 06 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM
GUEST,Himself 06 Nov 03 - 10:01 PM
GUEST 26 Jul 17 - 11:44 AM
Thompson 27 Jul 17 - 03:22 AM
GUEST,Alistair 27 Jul 17 - 09:00 AM
GUEST 28 Jul 17 - 04:18 AM
Leadbelly 28 Jul 17 - 03:16 PM
GUEST,ripov 28 Jul 17 - 05:36 PM
GUEST 29 Jul 17 - 11:21 AM
GUEST,ripov 29 Jul 17 - 01:45 PM
meself 29 Jul 17 - 04:06 PM
EBarnacle 29 Jul 17 - 11:11 PM
meself 29 Jul 17 - 11:17 PM
Georgiansilver 30 Jul 17 - 06:32 AM
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Subject: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 04:58 PM

Ok oh clever ones . Here is one of my faverite dance tunes. If you all remember the dance at Netherfield Hall (PRIDE & PREDGIDUS) where Mr Darcy ( Collin Firth ) is taken over the coals by Elizabeth Bennett ( Jennifer Elhe.) That great dance was performed to " Mr Beveridge's Maggot". So what is a Maggot anyway ????? . I expect it is a kind of dance since there are a lot of tunes named ao "SO & SO'S MAGGOT" . Any information would be greatly apriciated. !!!


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 05:07 PM

Predgidus????????


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Burke
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 05:25 PM

OED is really no help. All is says is: "c. Formerly used in the names of many dance tunes (now hist.). Now also arch. in the titles of other musical compositions." All of the examples are from Playford or the late 20th cent.

There was another use of maggot about the same time as: A whimsical, eccentric, strange, or perverse notion or idea. Now arch. and regional.

as in: "There's a strange Magot hath got into their Brain."

It's a nickname for Margaret as well.

Maybe it's like an ear worm.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Desdemona
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 05:58 PM

*My* favourite dance tune is "Mr Isaac's Maggot", another fabulous collected offering courtesy of the late, great Mr Playford!

D.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 06:40 PM

Ok Linda you know I cant spell . Well maybe I can spell Jane Austin. Or is it Austen or Auston or Asston . Ide love to try an english country dance with you anytime. I'll bring the Toffee. Have they made a monument on the spot at Lime Park ( Pemberly) where Mr firth almost got wet. I have heard more woman talk about Collin Firth in a wet shirt from that show then any conversations on the dances ! All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Burke
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 06:45 PM

It's Austen, but you don't need to have spelling problems to get her wrong; lots of people do.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 09:10 PM

THanks Burke, I was being cute and I still had it wrong. AGAIN><>< Oh well . At least not that many people stop in at the mudcat and see these little mistakes. How many thousand a mounth ? All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 09:22 PM

G'day Guy,

I understand that Burke's references, from the OED, do cover the sense in which "maggot" describes a tune. It is a particularly insistent tune that 'burrows into your brain' and can't be forgotten.

I guess that a really good dance tune should be a potential "maggot".

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: John Routledge
Date: 27 Oct 03 - 09:31 PM

Guy - There is no monument as yet in Lyme Park but it sure increased visitor numbers to the park.

I live eight miles away and visit regularly myself :0)


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 02:42 AM

If anyone does get the opportunity to visit Laycock in Wiltshire, it was the setting for the BBC's production of Pride and Prejudice. the village is National Trust and is a step back in time. No Thornton's toffee sold there, unfortunately Guy (sigh).


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: fogie
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 04:49 AM

There are lots of maggots in Playford and music of similar era, I think its supposed to mean "favourite", but I've come across no explanation of the word's origin. I like to think of the tunes as nuggets. Magpies used to be called maggoty pies didn't they? Mr Isaacs maggot was on an accordion compilation I got hold of recently, and immediately learned it -it is a good tune. If you're into that sort of music get hold of the old John Kirkpatrick&Sue Harris LPs and check out John Clare's music ms. especially the Woodpecker!!


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:26 AM

Fogie I really like your take on this one. Pm me your email and I will send some Jpegs of some early dance tunes found in my town of Litchfield Ct , from a copy-book from 1803 and one from 1818 . All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:48 AM

I have a feeling that the word "Maggot" is from a french term. Many tunes from Playford's period are Maggots. As they all seem to have people's names, it does make one wonder if it is a term rather like the irish Planxty.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:07 PM

I am certain that Bob Bolton got the right answer for this question. It's a tune that worms its way into the memory and won't be forgotten, however much you try. A friend of mine from the Peterborough area introduced me to the term a long time ago, and I have used it ever since. Beware all you singers and dancers - there are lots of maggots out there!
Mary Humphreys


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 06:42 PM

Mary is that Peterborough NH or Peterborough England ? I am in Peterborough NH all the time. I would love to play music with people ! I used to play at The Folkways there years ago ... All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:25 AM

There's a country dance called "Dick's Maggot". I was told it meant simply an idea. Since I didn't care for the dance, I suggested Dick clean out his garbage can with Clorox.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 01:46 AM

One maggot is called The Musicians Curse --

The Bear Dance

I actually came across it on a CD of mid-central-European traditional folk music - it was not called by that name.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Ringer
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 05:03 AM

I have absolutely no evidence to back up my opinion, but I believe that "maggot" is connected to the dance, and is not a reflection of any characteristic of the tune.

One reason (he says, contradicting his opening sentence) is that I suspect that the tunes we know and the dances didn't become "combined" until relatively lately. Consider popular Playford (ish) dances: Jack's Maggot (tunes Original, Maxwell's Rant); The Lasses of Portsmouth (tune We Will Down the French - [good one, that]); Once a Night (tune Ye Social Powers); The Bishop (tunes Miss Dolland's Delight, The Actress) etc etc. And that's only from the first 2 EPs I picked at random from our Folk Dance Club's music library.

I suspect we need the input of someone like Malcolm Douglas.

Ringer
Master of the Revels
Spire Folk Dance Club
Chesterfield
Derbyshire


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 10:54 AM

Im going to see Marshal Bearend soon and will ask her her take as well on all this . THis is all very good conversation. Ringer I will look up all the tunes you have talked on . Are Playford and Beveradge's colections published in modern form??
                  Also I bet Ringer is corect that it is the name of a kind of dance but I would add that the dance very often has everything to do with how the tunes are played. The rythum of a hornpipe is what makes the dance and the hornpipe ,itself , make sence. I bet calling it a Maggot gave the musisians a clue of tempo and dilivery of entant. This is all made up in my head but haveing played square dances for years I know the music is so touched by the DANCE.
                                                               All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 02 Nov 03 - 08:55 PM

Ok Well this was interesting . The message back from Marshal B was that a Maggot dose not designate a type of dance or meter that the dance is played at, but is "A whimsey or a flight of fancy". Descriptive but <><> . Now in musical terms dose that mean a maggot is a more ornamented dance tune?
                              The OED also had the word described as a "perverse whimsy". Humm


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot
From: GUEST,Compton
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 03:14 PM

From all my dancing days, I have believed a "Maggot" to be a favourite tune...and will continue to, until someone tells me different!!


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 04:28 PM

I think it to be in the same spirit as calling a tune '(Miss So and So)'s Fancy' as in 'Princess Margaret's Fancy' or the like. a maggot is (was) a fancy, as an idea or whim or even a hallucination.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Lanfranc
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 06:59 PM

Could there be any similarity to the Irish "Planxty", which similarly defies dictionary definition (at least in my Compact Oxford Dictionary)!

For want of any better definition, both "maggot" and "planxty" would appear to designate a tune composed in honour of or at the behest of a patron.

That's what I have always thought, but I am sure someone here will disillusion me or correct me if I am wrong.

Alan


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 04 Nov 03 - 07:58 PM

I think Bill Kennedy has hit it on the head .Im with him !! Thanks for cleafying what Marshall already said . That makes all the sence in the world to me. All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 05:56 PM

No doubt you're right, but I preferred the earlier explanation because in German a tune you can't get out of your head is called an 'Ohrwurm', literally 'ear-worm' - or maggot ...


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 10:37 PM

My unabridged dictionary gives two definitions of maggot which apply here. One is "a fantastic notion or caprice." The other is: Music: a composition of an impromptu nature."

Thus, "So-and-so's Maggot" would be a dance tune which So-and-so whipped out one day without much effort or editing. Ta da!


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Kudzuman
Date: 05 Nov 03 - 11:06 PM

This is all fascinating! One familiar tune to me was "Maggots in the Sheepshide" . Is this a different tune in that it possibly refers to actual maggots? I think I heard somewhere that Maggots were originally used in the production of Blue Cheese....yummmm...lovely stuff!

Kudzuman


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: smallpiper
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 10:37 AM

Vin Garbutt on a live album he recorded many years ago reffered to a Maggot as a tune that goes around and around and is very difficult to end (actually he said till it makes you sick)ideal for dancing I suppose.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,JOHN OF ELSIES BAND
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 10:54 AM

The story concerns one Mr.T.Beveridge, the renowned Southern Counties angler and the Great Angling Contest at Furnace Pond, Horsmonden in the county of Kent. Mr.Beveridge had placed a bet to the tune of £5 that he would win the day, the anglers having to fish from sun up to sun down, (in those days it was recognised that even lowly fish deserved a break). By 4 p.m. the lead was held by Ron " The Rod" Terrible he having caught one more minnow than Mr.B., a lead of 2 ounces weight. The rest of the field were nowhere, many having had a blank and some were even packing to go home. The fishing had been furious with copius amounts of bait having being used, in some cases all to no avail. Mr.B., sensing the sun would soon be setting and the seeing the gloating face of Ron knew he had one last chance to win. Just one more fish. Unfortunately in his hectic attempt to be victorious he had also exhausted his supply of bait and he desparately searched for some bread paste, luncheon meat, grasshoppers or anything with which to bait his hook. A young lad, a certain William Wantpenny, who had been watching the days proceedings and noting the finer practises of " the gentle art" saw the distress of Mr.B. and offered to find him some bait for a consideration. Mr.B. grudgingly accepted the offer knowing that to use bait other than his own could disqualify him, should anyone find out. The boy returned with his offering, one maggot! Mr.B.skillfully presented the bait and just as the sun began to fall behind the western horizon he pulled in a tiddler of a few ounces to claim the day, much to the chagrin of "The Rod". Mr.B.collected his bet but was aware of young William standing close by with a wry smile. "So, young fellah-mi-lad, what can I do for you?" he asked. "Five pound I believe would go a long way to ensure your name stays on the winners list" the boy replied. Mr.B. knew he had been caught bang to rights and coughed up to protect his reputation. Some years later, one day when William Wantpenny was in his cups he let slip the tale of "Mr.Beveridge`s Maggot" but by this time Mr.B. had moved on and it mattered to no-one. Chalkers Broadside Compendium records a popular song relating this tale but it would seem it has been lost in antiquity.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 11:57 AM

I think all of the descriptions above really have enriched my thoughts around this word . Thank you.! All the different takes are very related. A favorite tune that you cant get out of your head . That has burrowed in really makes sence . Maybe a whim one cant get away from !. That works both way ..

                   Well this story is worming its way into my head ! Sorry.
                          I want the movie rights !! Who could play Mr. Beveridge. If He fell in and got wet I think Colin Firth could work. No wait , Danielle Day Lewis could do the sneaky thing of taking the Maggot with shifty eyes. No someone heavier , Marlin Brando Hmm no to American ( he did do a great Captain Blithe once) . Ill work on this one . I know just the studio to pitch it to .
                   All the best and thanks everyone for the great insights !   Guy


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 12:04 PM

theres a great jig called the Millers Maggot (I think its a New England
tune) the definition I was given was that the early term for maggot
was a whimsical idea. Maybe like a bee in ones bonnet.
petr


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,Himself
Date: 06 Nov 03 - 10:01 PM

A "Maggot" is a tune and a tune that once heard or learnt WILL NOT LEAVE YOUR BRAIN....a week later you are still humming it.Here on the CBC( Canadian) they have had a discussion this week ,by coincidence,of what they call "Brain Worms....same thing.
    Maggots are different for different people.Does anyone remember the erudite radio celeb. Robert Robinson ? He said Gilbert and Sullivan music sounded to him like it had been written by a sewing machine.I know what he means.I like Gilbert and Sullivan but start to resent it when four days later I'm still humming it.My problem ,not theirs.
             Regards       Robin

.....thread creep,I know,but what's your "Maggot" ?


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 17 - 11:44 AM

Interesting discussion.    My understanding is that a maggot refers to a dance with an unusual dance figure - the "whimsical fancy" definition.   Mr Isaac's maggot has the unusual trip around your neighbor. Corelli's Maggot has the unusual double gating figure.

There was a period of time that people thought that brilliant flashes of inspiration were caused by maggots nibbling on your brain. That's how the two definitions connect.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Thompson
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 03:22 AM

So a maggot (literally the larvae of a housefly) is entomologically related to an earworm?


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,Alistair
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 09:00 AM

A maggot or ear-worm!


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 04:18 AM

Maggot is simply an archaic term for favourite, or delight, and therefore was added to many dance or dance tune titles, as a way of distinguishing one from another. I was going to say like adding the word Blues to popular songs during the mid Twentieth Century for commercial purposes, but since most of those didn't necessarily follow the classic blues framework, that would surely open another can of ear worms.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Leadbelly
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 03:16 PM

The german translation of Maggot is "Made". Thinking of the actual scandal about "Diesel" cars built by VW, AUDI, BMW and Porsche, "Made in Germany" gets a new meaning... :)


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 28 Jul 17 - 05:36 PM

But the cars passed the tests the government designed. So did the materials used in Grenfell Tower. So do our kids when they do their SATs. Common thread anywhere?

But - back to thread; I initially thought 'maggot' a strange name; but then it seemed to me a logical way of describing the tune that comes out of the head, pretty well fully formed (the best ones, as any composer will tell you; there are plenty of poor ones needing hard work to knock into shape, but which are never so good, despite the work you put into them); and so the names associated with the maggot were probably of local musicians who played together, possibly all sharing one instrument since folks were not necessarily well off; and who occasionally played one of their own tunes, rather than a set of variations on a well known tune, which was the fashion.
Just my guess.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 11:21 AM

Earworm

Annoyingly catchy tune.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: GUEST,ripov
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 01:45 PM

but if it should be an "earworm", surely it had another name to start with, given by its composer?


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 04:06 PM

This thread itself seems to be taking on the character of an earworm or 'maggot' in any of several of its senses: it goes on and on, round and round, on and on, round and round; whimsical, eccentric, strange, or perverse; like an ear worm; particularly insistent; 'burrows into your brain' and can't be forgotten; it does make one wonder; it is rather like the irish Planxty; worms its way into the memory and won't be forgotten, however much you try; it is "A whimsey or a flight of fancy"; it is (was) a fancy, as an idea or whim or even a hallucination; it makes all the sence in the world to me; it is "a fantastic notion or caprice"; it is a composition of an impromptu nature; it was whipped out one day without much effort or editing; it is all fascinating; it goes around and around and is very difficult to end; it is a whim one cant get away from; it is is worming its way into my head; it has many a whimsical idea; WILL NOT LEAVE YOUR BRAIN....a week later you are still humming it .....

(Yes, as a matter of fact, I DO have better things to do ... !).


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 11:11 PM

meself, were you formerly Guy Wolff here on the 'Cat? I am referring to the similarities of your spelling and syntax.


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: meself
Date: 29 Jul 17 - 11:17 PM

Nope, I'm afraid I can't claim that honour. What you observed was the result of an obsessive fit of cutting-and-pasting ... !


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Subject: RE: Mr Beveridges Maggot - what's a maggot?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 30 Jul 17 - 06:32 AM

A maggot is the larva of a fly (order Diptera); it is applied in particular to the larvae of Brachycera flies, such as houseflies, cheese flies, and blowflies,[1] rather than larvae of the Nematocera, such as mosquitoes and Crane flies.


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