BS: Matthew Shepard (1976-1998)

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard (1976-1998)
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Nov 18 - 11:22 AM

Only one U. S. President is buried in the District of Columbia,
let alone the Nation Cathedral there.

Here he is.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard (1976-1998)
From: CupOfTea
Date: 31 Oct 18 - 02:07 PM

The memorial service at the National Cathedral was streamed live on Facebook, and I happened to catch most of it. It ran very long - likely over 2 hours - with lots of music, and my Ipad battery gave out after a couple hours. Learned later that the actual placement of the ashes was not at that ceremony, but a private one later.

I was touched by Matthew's father's eulogy, but was in tears along with Bishop Gene Robinson, as he talked about this being a young man of faith. I don't think I've ever been so proud of being an Episcopalian as during this. I'm not gay, or a parent, or a sibling, but felt strongly during this service that Matthew was a part of my church family, and his death makes me think of all the beloved friends I have who are in the categories subject to the same kind of irrational and bigoted hate that lead to Matthew's death. I fear for trans youth, in particular, struggling to come of age and come into themselves.

In some ways it was also a memorial to the days gone by when acceptance of others' difference was becoming the norm, as we now face the days when hate is becoming the new normal in so many places. I hope Matthew's final resting place is in a location that 45 has to pass any time he visits the National Cathedral when he's pretending to be a Christian.

Joanne in Cleveland

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: keberoxu
Date: 29 Oct 18 - 01:23 PM

I really ought to look around and find out
who all is memorialized in Washington, DC's National Cathedral.
It's some exalted company for Matthew Shepard's cremains.

Must be re-opening wounds, though,
this whole conclusion,
for his grieving parents.
Hope they feel a bit lighter as the pain fades.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 08:59 PM

Those Mudcatters who listen to the Weekend Edition of NPR probably
know all the details about what led up to today's ceremony in Washington DC.

I don't listen, so I had to look around and check news stories
for details.
I did not know how an American citizen gets the privilege of
interment of their remains/cremains in the National Cathedral.

The Cathedral's Episcopal dean has to formalize and approve each case.
As the news has reported,
retired Episcopal priest Gene Robinson (now active at Chautauqua)
is a friend of Matthew Shepard's parents.
The Shepards told rev. Robinson that someone had suggested the National Cathedral,
and Robinson contacted the Cathedral on their behalf.

That's what I read ... hopefully this is accurate.

I was unaware that
Helen Keller, and her mentor Annie Sullivan,
were both interred there.   "The Miracle Worker."
Classy company.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: keberoxu
Date: 26 Oct 18 - 07:22 PM

This seems a fitting conclusion for this thread.

One more thing, regarding this particular thread:
Check out the link to the op-ed piece
by the late lamented Mudcat member katlaughing.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 04:18 PM

Isn't "Thou shalt not kill" included in the Ten Commandments in Wyoming?

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,PMB
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 06:47 AM

Hate's a virtue in the USA Dave, and of course greed is another. It won't stay different here much longer.

Eventually Americans will realise that Phelps is in fact the true face of Christianity, not an aberration, and perhaps more will learn to think for themselves about what morality means.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Aug 07 - 06:27 AM

Sounds like with one small change the monument they want could be true. Just alter it from "Entered Hell" to "Left Hell"! It's disgusting that these things are allowed in this day and age. Are this 'Rev' and his supporters not breaking and anti-hate laws?

Dave

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 09:49 PM

Gee, this almost makes me wish I believed in Hell; then I could take comfort in the idea of "Reverend" Phelps going there to start burning...

~D

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Aug 07 - 09:34 PM

That bastard "Rev." Phelps just won't leave it alone. The latest from Matthew's hometown:

In response to Casper's new historical monument plaza, an anti-gay pastor in Kansas has renewed his request to have his own monument in town.

In a letter to the Casper City Council on Monday, the Rev. Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church restated his intentions to build a monument in Casper, the home of slain gay University of Wyoming student Matthew Shepard.

Phelps protested Shepard's 1998 funeral and members of his family protested in Casper in 2003 after the council declined them permission to install a monument on city property. Phelps had asked permission on Oct. 2, 2003, while the city was debating what to do with its Ten Commandments monument.

On Monday morning, the city dedicated a historical monument plaza, which includes the Ten Commandments, the Declaration of Independence, the Mayflower Compact, the Magna Carta, the Preamble to the U.S. Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Phelps said he would be willing to make his monument resemble the six others and would include a picture of Shepard and the engraving: "MATTHEW SHEPARD, Entered Hell October 12, 1998, at age 21, in Defiance of God's Warning: 'Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind; it is abomination.' Leviticus 18:22."

Mayor Kate Sarosy said she had not received Phelps' letter Monday evening and said she would speak with the city attorney and the other council members.

"Mr. Phelps' message is full of hate and not in the spirit of the monument plaza," Sarosy said.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Janice now in western NY State
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 01:57 PM

I believe the culprits were convicted of Murder One and faced the death penalty, but their lawyers had the either the wisdom or the audacity to contact the victim's parents and get them to say their son opposed the death penalty. Based upon that, the jury came back with a recommendation of life without parole.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: open mike
Date: 14 Feb 07 - 12:29 PM

No mention was made of the murderers who took Matthew's life.
What has become of them? Hopefully they are serving time.

They are the evil ones, and definately deserve punishment.
Both of them are serving double life sentences in prison.

Did you know there is a foundation in matthew's name? http://www.matthewsplace.com/

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: RangerSteve
Date: 13 Feb 07 - 06:38 PM

I just added my name to the petition. If the monument goes up, I'm sure it will be vandalized and destroyed in record time.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 12 Feb 07 - 10:20 PM

A local High School staged "The Laramie Project" this weekend. About 18 of those nutballs showed up with signs that are just plain crazy evil. "Thank God for IED's" "You Will Eat Your Children" "God Laughs at Dead Soldiers".....

WTF?

Luckily, there were nearly 200 of us between them and the school.

Often, I can at least understand crazy thinking (even if it is flawed or twisted), but these folks make no sense whatsoever.

Worst part is they had several children with them. Poor little buggers. Imagine how they will turn out.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: curmudgeon
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 08:44 AM

Kendall -- this

is probably the best link to the events thus far: Make sure to let us know if you will be in the neighborhood.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,rog
Date: 01 Nov 03 - 08:11 AM

Apparently the council rejected the plan.
Details here (amid annoying pop up ads) planetout

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 09:03 PM

Where and what time Tom? I'd like to join the thinkers with a sign.

WHACKO HATE MONGERS DO NOT SPEAK FOR MY GOD

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: kendall
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 08:59 PM

Damn right I signed it.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: AliUK
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 02:33 PM

How lily-livered this town council is. To establish a new park so as to give in to some pissant God-botherer. leave the damned 10 Commandments there and refuse to put up with Phelp´s demands. This just shows how non-democratic the USA really is. What happend to majority opinion? But then I keep forgetting about how the country let George ( the UK is not free from this) walk into another country ( several if you count Korea, Vietnam, Granada, etc)

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 01:57 PM

From my friend in the trenches in Casper (WY):

Phelps proposes to put these monuments all over the country. Casper is establishing an historical monument park so we can keep the 10 Commandments in a city park. It will be across from the library and behind the Nic. (The Nic is an art museum.)

This is really appalling,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 01:19 PM

Thank you, Guest, Rog. That explains my confusion. I didn't realise it was Casper in which phelps wants to put this thing up. That explains the city council of Casper, not Laramie, trying to figure out what to do.

My "Rog" and I have both signed the petition and I plant to send the link to many friends. I am sure those I know in Casper are doing all they can to prevent phelps' abomination.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: LilyFestre
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 01:17 PM

Melissa Etheridge sings a song entitled Silent Legacy. IMHO, the last set of lyrics says it all.

Mothers tell your children
Be quick you must be strong
Life is full of wonder
Love is never wrong
Remember how they taught you
How much of it was fear
Refuse to hand it down
The legacy stops here

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: AliUK
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 12:01 PM

Thanks for the link Rog. Now I feel I can make a statement even from so far away.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Rog
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 08:18 AM

This morning I read a message that I couldn't quite believe on another forum. I was going to ask on here if something so sick could be true, then noticed this thread about it aleady. What a sick world we live in. The piece I read had this link
online petition

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 04:41 PM

I think one of the most telling aspects of Fred Phelps' stand against homosexuality is the fact that he has 11 children: either he keeps trying to prove something, or is in basic denial about certain latent aspects of his sexuality.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: AliUK
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 03:44 PM

Scarey. Really scarey. I read the articles, I watched the clips ( I´d like to see the whole documentary) this guy is just so lucid, so with it and he knows his bible. Tha´s why he´s so dangerous. He has a persuasive manner and sure conviction. Just like that little Austrian painter a number of years ago. I hope nobody shoots Fred Phelps as that will make him bigger than he already is, but I hope he gets prostrate cancer ( being against sodomy he sure doesn´t go for his check-up I bet).

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 03:14 PM

Oh, kewl, thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 02:11 PM

Kat, I set up an e-mail for that sort of thing -- [e-mail].

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 01:10 PM

I have a lot of respect for Dr. Biber, BlueJay. From what I've seen he seems to be really compassionate. Sorry to hear that phelps has spread his taint there, too.

I misunderstood my daughter, last night. It is in Casper that town officials are planning to move a ten commandments monument. Unfortunately there are a lot of right-wingers who are protesting, but it looks as though the city will do it, regardless. I can only hope Laramie does the same. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

pdc, I was going to PM you, thenrealised I couldn't. I wanted to tell you thanks, again, your words are greatly appreciated.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: BlueJay
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 04:17 AM

This maniac has also tainted where I live, southern Colorado. He and his troops came to Trinidad, about seven years ago, to protest against Dr. Stanley Biber, one of the pioneers of sex-change surgery.

Now as a nurse, I have worked under Dr. Biber's direction. As a nurse, it is not appropriate to be too goddam judgemental, one way or the other. But I will say that what the doctor has done regarding sex change is quite miraculous. I've seen some of his surgery and outcomes.

Doctor Biber has generated a HUGE revenue for the small town of Trinidad over the years, and at times has practically kept our local hospital afloat for all patients. Trinidad realizes this quite well.

So here comes Phelps and his army. They managed to recruit a few local demonstrators, but not many. Plastered "God hates Fags", and "No More sex Change" signs in a feew locations. Some of the more fundamental churches participated, but the whole thing was over in a day. Got front page coverage in the Trinidad Chronicle, for one day.

I'd have to say the alleged Reverend Phelps must have been disappointed in his reception in Trinidad, Colorado. He spent a bunch of money getting his protesters here, largely with no reaction.

Either this guy needs to get a real life, or somebody should tie him up to a fence for a few days. I personally wish somebody would just shoot his ass, since there's more guns in this country than Christians. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Marion
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 02:02 AM

pdc mentioned Canada... there was a Phelpsie event once in Ottawa when I lived there, and I posted this anecdote about it in an earlier thread:

Since someone raised the topic of flag-burning, here's my favourite moment in the history of Canadian-American diplomacy:

Some of Fred Phelps' group came up to Ottawa to protest a favourable ruling for same-sex spouses by the Supreme Court. (And you probably know who Fred Phelps is even if you don't recognize the name - he leads the "church" that pickets "God Hates Fags", "Thank God for AIDS" etc. at various events, including Matthew Shephard's (sp?) funeral.)

Anyway, this group intended to burn a Canadian flag, but as they began, a Mountie realized that they didn't know what they were doing and the way they were trying to do it could be dangerous. So he gave them instructions and helped them get it ignited safely.

The Mountie got some criticism for helping burn the Maple Leaf, but also some praise, and I think it was beautiful. Both as a way of making the homophobes look ridiculous, and as a way of expressing Canadian values: "Burn our flag, big deal. Let's just nobody get hurt."

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: NicoleC
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:13 AM

You're right, kat, it is a Christian thing to do, and I hope the townsfolk say so as loudly as they can. It'd be nice to see Christians who act out of love get the press for a change instead of the inevitable vocal and hateful minority.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 12:09 AM

Thanks, pdc and Mickey, very much. I cannot believe how much emotion I still feel about this; it hit me, again, re-reading my piece.

Nicole, I am not in favour of them on public property, either. I think it is a very Christian thing to do, though, taking it down so as not to allow hatred. Somewhere in front of a church or something would be much more appropriate anyway.:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: NicoleC
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:57 PM

Although I'm not in favor at all of religious shrines on public land, a town monument to the 10 Commandments is fairly benign and it's too bad that the Christian folks who cherish that monument so much will lose it just to stop some other's hateful speech in the name of the same religion.

Hopefully they'll find a nice privately owned spot to move the monument to. Perhaps in front of a local church nearby?

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:44 PM

Kat, That was a great, heartfelt piece you wrote.
Five years later & the venom is still being spewed.

I listened to the tapes of Phelps. To hear the voice say such abomnible things is truly chilling. I've heard people of that ilk say that aids is a gift from God, that one of God's attributes is his hatred of gays. Did someone forget to tell these loathesome creatures that God is Love. How could a loving God mandate this terrible disease as retribution? That sounds like the Devil's work.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:54 PM

Ah Kat, I just read your op-ed piece, and had to re-read the last couple of paragraphs, as I couldn't see for tears. Good for you, you brave wonderful woman. I'm proud to know you electronically!!

It takes very little courage to parade your beliefs when they are hate-filled fanaticism, as in the Phelps case. Your energy comes from hate, and it gets you going.

It takes a lot of courage to energize a peaceful person enough to stand up to the likes of Phelps. You showed it. Good for you.

I'm not religious. But I know Phelps is headed to whatever hell he preaches.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:35 PM

Mickey, you might be interested in the op/ed piece I had published that week. I'd posted it a few years ago, here, at the Mudcat: clickety.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:23 PM

My daughter in Casper just called to say the town of Laramie is taking down the monument of the ten commandments in hopes of thwarting this asshole's attempt to vilify Matthew. I am truly proud of Wyoming, today. I knew they would take them down rather than give him any legal reason to plant his crap.

Mickey, I don't know if my brother was waving or not, but he and the majority of Casperites and Wyomingites were "agin" this creep and turned out in full force to silence him. When the funeral started the sky was blue. As his crowd gathered, behind barriers the police confined them to, my brother said it was uncanny, as if heaven sought to silence him, too, as huge, dark clouds came out of nowhere and a very noise-dampening snow began to fall. Most people felt it was a very significant sign from nature/god/whathaveyou.

That day I was swamped with emails as I'd designed a simple "No hate in Wwoming, the Equality State" sign for which we had requests from all over the country. Ordinary people from California to Florida emailed me for a jpg, so they could print them out and hang them in the windows of their cars, businesses, and homes, as we were doing in WY. It was an intense few days and while incredibly shocking and sad, I've never been prouder of Americans.

Rest in Peace, Matthew. After five years this still stirs up a lot of emotions and memories. He was from the same Episcopal church as my brother.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:21 PM

I just read through the link posted by Guest, who is from Topeka, where Phelps lives. Anyone who has time should read through that thread, although it's long and complex. Absolutely unbelievable that this whacko should have the power he has. He was denied the right to picket when he came to Canada once, and had some of his picket signs taken away under our Hate Speech law. All I can say is that I'm really grateful that we have laws against public hate so that we don't have to live with an evil, evil man like Phelps.

And although I am a believer in peacefulness, if I had a gun, and he was in the vicinity, especially if he was preaching his virulent, ugly, profane hatred.......

Read it if you have time; it's worth investigating.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 09:25 PM

Kendall, when my town's government approves of and displays a swastika in my town's main square, and the swastika remains there after all legal battles, I'll admit I was wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Jaze
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 09:14 PM

This man is no different from the terrorists who claim to do their evil in the name of Islam. It reminds me very much of the Salem witch hunts. Perverted and truly sick hate-filled people using religion as a cover. The scariest form of evil. And sadly, he'll drag some people along with him. Sad isn't it, after all these years, these people still crop up and have deluded followers.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 09:12 PM

I dont work, so, they cant mess with my wages, I have spent many hours in court (on the prosecution side), I don't answer my phone. The truth is on my side.

A monument to hate? How about the Swastika?

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 09:06 PM

I'm not using my name here because I'm from Topeka, (where Fred is from) and you cannot imagine the villification that would result if he knew who I am.

To find out the truth about him, go here.
http://cjonline.com/webindepth/phelps/
This is an indepth report that appeared in our newspaper some time ago. You will see that several of his kids are lawyers (Phelps Chartered) and that is where the church gets all its money.

Kendall, I admire your attitude, but if you were to try anything like that (and some have) you, your friends, your relatives and anyone you might know would be sublect not only to harrassment, but law suites, loss of wages, etc, etc.

Look at the above article. You will see why his two oldest children moved away and have nothing at all to do with him. He himself is not in the best of health now, and his daughter is taking over and will be worse than he is. There is only one thing that works with him and that is to ignor him. There is a large group that is called "Not Today Fred" that gives counter demonstrations, and while they get a nice response from the community, Fred enjoyes the attention. There is a popular bumper sticker here that says simply PHUCK PHRED. So far he hasen't been able to have that removed.

BTW, he claimes to be affilliated with the Primitive Baptist church; I don't know it that is true or not.

QUESTION: Why did Iraq get Saddam Hussein while Topeka got Fred?
ANSWER: Iraq had first choice!

We would be forever in your debt if you take him from us.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 08:58 PM

Folks can call themselves whatever they like, Christian, Baptist, or just 'good'. Doesn't make it so. I'm not religious, but I can't figure out how anyone can get away with justifying hate and violence by claiming to be following a deity known for forgiveness and love. In all the myths surrounding Satan, he seems to be known for lying, trickery and impersonating the good guys. If I were religious, I don't think I'd have any problems seeing this guy as play for the OTHER team.

As it is, I think Phelps sounds like he comes as close to true evil as a human can. He's a loony, and whether he's a dangerous one or not depends on how many people believe in him. Somehow, I don't think a monument to hate can be justified, legally or otherwise, but if it does go up, I don't see it lasting very long.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 08:01 PM

Kat, they did say it's his own Baptist Church with no affiliation? I did not hear that. Was that your brother waving in the background?

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: kendall
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 07:57 PM

I'd like to have about ten minutes out behind the woodshed with this ignorant asshole. Ignorance breeds fear, and fear breeds hatred.

I would ask this creep a simple quesation, have you ever read any real Jewish history? I thought not. Ok, tell me this, if God hates homosexuals, why is there no word about Lesbians in the Bible?
And, the answer is; male homosexual behavior is forbidden, not because it is immoral, but because it borders on "GODDESS worship!
THOU SHALT HAVE NO OTHER GODS BEFORE ME.
This should stir up a hornet's nest.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 06:31 PM

Mickey, they did. My brother was there.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 05:56 PM

SIns,

That's because it is neither organized nor particularly religious.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 05:48 PM

I thought that we were all made in god's image? Doesn't that apply to gays? and Jews? and even Fred Phelps? Organized religion confuses me.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 04:41 PM

Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church
Marion, I hope you are correct in that this person is not part of the True Baptist Church. NBC News did not differentiate in last night's report.To see more of the ADL's report click on GuestPDC blue clicky above. The following is from the A.D.L.

In Their Own Words:
About The Westboro Baptist Church
At the funeral of gay murder victim Matthew Shepard, they held up signs reading "No Fags in Heaven" and "God Hates Fags." According to their Web site, they have staged "20,000" protests across the nation and around the world in the last decade. They believe that "God's hatred is one of His holy attributes." They are the congregants of the Westboro Baptist Church of Topeka, Kansas.

Incorporated in 1967 as a not-for-profit organization, the virulently homophobic Westboro Baptist Church (WBC) considers itself an "Old School (or, Primitive)" Baptist Church. The Church is led by the septuagenarian Reverend Fred Waldron Phelps Sr., and many WBC congregants are related to Phelps by blood. His wife, several of his children and dozens of his grandchildren frequent the church.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 04:16 PM

Marion, if I remember correctly, we did have people pledge that way in WY, I think in Cheyenne and maybe in Casper. It's a good way to gain some positive from such acts of hatred. Thanks for reminding us.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: LilyFestre
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 03:22 PM

I wonder how it is that this man KNOWS where ANYONE is going. I'd say that is entirely up to God.

Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Marion
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 03:11 PM

Mickey191 called Phelps a Baptist minister - I think it's worth pointing out that Phelps and his church are NOT Baptist, i.e, they are not acknowledged by the Baptist denomination(s). They are a rogue church who have appropriated the word Baptist, and it would be a shame if anyone thought they were representatives of a much larger group.

I'm sure that Phelps and his group do some real harm, by inflicting emotional pain on survivors when they picket funerals, and by ruining the childhoods of their young members.

But I suspect that they do more good than harm, overall, to the gay community, because they reveal homophobia as the ignorant and hate-filled thing that it is.   

Is anyone familiar with the concept of a "homophobathon"? The idea is that when a Phelps picket is anticipated, you ask sponsors to pledge a certain amount of money towards a gay-positive cause for each homophobe that participates.    I heard of this idea shortly after Matthew Shephard's murder, but I don't know if anyone carried it out or not. Seems like a great idea to me. It would be frustrating and embarrassing to the Phelps group, and somewhat amusing to gay-positive people, and would raise some money for a good cause, without inhibiting anyone's free speech.

Perhaps some variation of it could be organized for the the monument issue.   Let them put it up, but organize a campaign for people to donate 25 cents for each day the monument stands to a group that does anti-homophobia workshops in high schools or something like that.

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM

Sheeeeeshe!!

This sort of thing does not reflect well on the species. What flagrant stupidity.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:10 PM

One of my family members is gay. I have had many gay friends and co-workers over the years, and treasured them the same as anyone else. When Matthew Shepard was killed, I was beside myself - what if he were my family member, my friend, my colleague?

I suppose people can make all the judgments about Matthew Shepard they want, but as for me, I don't know what was in his heart, I don't know what his relationship was with the Almighty. Only God knew that.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: JennyO
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM

Dear GUEST, I was brought up a Methodist, and had a good dose of religion as a child. As I grew older, I was not so much confused as disillusioned, and decided long ago that I did not relate to Christianity, or any religion that assumes that we are sinners and need saving, or any religion that says "Our way is the only right way". That is the sort of thinking that provides fertile ground for nasty types like Phelps to flourish, AND be taken seriously by some.

I always felt an affinity with nature-based spirituality, without knowing what label to give myself, and these days I am quite clear about the path I am taking. You might call me a pagan or a witch, but I still prefer not to put any labels on it myself.

My present life on this planet is all just a part of a learning process for my soul. That is how I see it. We are all going through this - each at a different stage along our chosen path, and each in our own way. So I would never say my way is the only right way.

I see Jesus as one of the great teachers and many of his ideas are very worthy, but there is a lot of wisdom to be gained from other great teachers and shamans too. Actually, I have been looking within a lot lately. That's where the greatest wisdom comes from.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: curmudgeon
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:50 AM

And now, this depraved hate monger is coming to New Hampshire to protest the installation of Canon Gene Robinson as Episcopal Bishop this coming Sunday. Would that there could be more instant karma for his likes.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM

Dear Jenny O..please do not equate the actions of some christians(in the name of christanity) with christian beliefs.they are totally different things. Perhaps you are no longer a christian because you were confused as to what was christian. Every religion, belief, tenet,political party has it's bigots ,nutters and perverts, they are usually the exception and not the rule.
   As for the likes of Phelps..well, what can one say. These abhorant types are always with us, unfortunately.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 01:08 AM

Why doesn't everyone just laugh at him? Laugh when he preaches, laugh when he rants, laugh when he shows up. Taking him seriously grants him a sick sort of validation.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:32 PM

Guest PDC Thanks for the link-I read it all-I feel like I need a bath. Absolutely the most vile rantings I've ever seen. I guess the "Rev" & his sick cohorts will be the only ones in heaven. I don't expect Jesus will be the there, seeing he was an unmarried Jew. The "Rev" wanted to go preach in the streets of Baghdad - why don't we buy the bastard a ticket.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:29 PM

It's not just Phelps. On TV they did a sound byte of a middleaged woman, looked normal, you could imagine her playing with her grandchildren. She too said that God hates gays and sends them to hell. Wonder if she ever thinks about what to do with those who bear false witness, worship other gods or none at all, gossipers and other 'unholy' ones that are berated and condemned in the Bible.

I know a lot of people who probably come close to agreeing with their take on it. They would say that the group is going too far, no doubt, but they do feel that they know what God thinks. Iran with its ayatollahs is not so different from us.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: LadyJean
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:24 PM

One of the ladies in my church, obviously, started life as a gentleman. OK, I think a man in women's clothes is funny. I don't think she's evil, or dangerous. I'm scared that some of the God hates fags crowd will show up at my church some Sunday.
That nasty monument would be a target for vandals. Which is an excellent reason for the good people of Laramie to tell the loathesome reverend that they don't want it.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:46 PM

Have a friend who is a priest, he would say God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM

What really rubs me the wrong way is the lack of logic. Those who profess to be Christian often say "God works in mysterious ways," when something doesn't go the way they think it should have. Then they say such things as "God hates fags."

There is such a ridiculous contradiction there that I wonder that they don't see it. If God's ways are mysterious, how can anyone claim to know what God does/doesn't like?

Oh, please.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:16 PM

yeah...he makes me wonder why he hates gay people so much....is he hiding something?

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:54 PM

Good Lord--what strikes me immediately is his incoherence. It sounds like he has a grab-bag of ugly terms and just uses any or all of them at once. You could pretty much fill in the blank for his target-of-the-moment. It makes him look wonderfully mentally feeble.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: JennyO
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:47 PM

This sort of thing just reminds me why I'm not a Christian anymore. I know there are many well meaning Christians - I am friends with some of them - but I have encountered a lot of intolerance and judgmental attitudes amongst so-called Christians, and throughout history, many crimes of violence have been committed and far too many bloody wars fought in the name of Christianity. This is not what Jesus intended. Somewhere along the way, the Christian Church has got it terribly wrong.

Unfortunately, Fred Phelps is the result of the intolerance and hatred common to some extreme fundamentalist "Christians". He's not the only one. I had an uncle like that, so have experienced it first hand, because he made me a target. I was quite relieved when he died. He was a dangerous man.

It is not consistent with my beliefs to wish harm on anyone, but with Fred Phelps, I just might make an exception. Lets just say that I hope he gets what he deserves, and soon.

Jenny

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:25 PM

pdc, thanks for the link. Seems I may have misunderstood your first posting.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:11 PM

If you want to read a lot more about the Right Reverend Mr. Phelps, professional homophobic and ugly human being in general:

Ignorant hatred

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:09 PM

I was just watching an interview yesterday with a gay Priest. I can't remember his name though. It seems priests are coming out of the closet. I think this minister raising hell is nothing but a hypocrite, and should find a new profession if he can't relate to "Love thy neighbor" anymore.
Peace, Rustic

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:49 PM

Let's name the misanthrope -- Fred Phelps -- a man so evil that he could make W. look compassionate by contrast.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:27 PM

Since the man clearly doesn't accept the Ten Commandments, it's a bit strange he uses them to justify his own perverted religious views.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:14 PM

Mathew Shephard entered hell before he died.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:55 PM

Sorcha, we cross-posted.:-) It was my understanding that most of the haters come with him from his congregation in Kansas. At the time Matthew was murdered, I saw a mostly united WY stand against his hatred. I would hope that is still true. I know there are a lot of rednecks there, but I just don't think they are the types to cross that line. I am sure the creep didn't like the article in TIME on the 18th.

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:39 PM

That gawddamned minister has used Matthew as a lightening rod for his hated from the instant Matthew was murdered. I'll bet they take down the ten commandments before they allow that kind of crap. I was in the thick of the human rights movement in WY when he was killed and watched the Bapstard carry signs with messages of hatred at Matthew's funeral. I have a deep belief in the decency of most Wyomingites and I cannot believe they will allow this to happen.

Thanks for the alert, Mickey,

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:37 PM

Sick, sick,sick people, but that is Wyoming Goatroper Rednecks for you.

Subject: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

Matthew Shephard was a young man who was brutally murdered, 5 years ago, because he was gay. A Baptist minister is petioning the town of Laramie, Wyoming to allow a headstone to be placed in a town park.The inscription will read - Matthew Shepard entered hell on Oct. 18, 1998. Brokaw said the town may have to allow it because they've allowed a monument with the ten commandments. The petioners were there with their signs stating "God Hates Fags" & "God Hated Mathew Shephard." I'm sick. What say you?