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BS: Matthew Shepard (1976-1998)

katlaughing 29 Oct 03 - 04:16 PM
LilyFestre 29 Oct 03 - 03:22 PM
Marion 29 Oct 03 - 03:11 PM
Amos 29 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM
GUEST,Casual Observer 29 Oct 03 - 12:10 PM
JennyO 29 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM
curmudgeon 29 Oct 03 - 11:50 AM
GUEST 29 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,pdc 29 Oct 03 - 01:08 AM
Mickey191 28 Oct 03 - 11:32 PM
Ebbie 28 Oct 03 - 11:29 PM
LadyJean 28 Oct 03 - 11:24 PM
GUEST,Mickey191 28 Oct 03 - 10:46 PM
GUEST,pdc 28 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM
Amergin 28 Oct 03 - 10:16 PM
GUEST,Ely 28 Oct 03 - 09:54 PM
JennyO 28 Oct 03 - 09:47 PM
katlaughing 28 Oct 03 - 09:25 PM
GUEST,pdc 28 Oct 03 - 09:11 PM
Rustic Rebel 28 Oct 03 - 09:09 PM
curmudgeon 28 Oct 03 - 08:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 28 Oct 03 - 08:27 PM
GUEST,pdc 28 Oct 03 - 08:14 PM
katlaughing 28 Oct 03 - 07:55 PM
katlaughing 28 Oct 03 - 07:39 PM
Sorcha 28 Oct 03 - 07:37 PM
Mickey191 28 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 04:16 PM

Marion, if I remember correctly, we did have people pledge that way in WY, I think in Cheyenne and maybe in Casper. It's a good way to gain some positive from such acts of hatred. Thanks for reminding us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: LilyFestre
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 03:22 PM

I wonder how it is that this man KNOWS where ANYONE is going. I'd say that is entirely up to God.

Michelle


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Marion
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 03:11 PM

Mickey191 called Phelps a Baptist minister - I think it's worth pointing out that Phelps and his church are NOT Baptist, i.e, they are not acknowledged by the Baptist denomination(s). They are a rogue church who have appropriated the word Baptist, and it would be a shame if anyone thought they were representatives of a much larger group.

I'm sure that Phelps and his group do some real harm, by inflicting emotional pain on survivors when they picket funerals, and by ruining the childhoods of their young members.

But I suspect that they do more good than harm, overall, to the gay community, because they reveal homophobia as the ignorant and hate-filled thing that it is.   

Is anyone familiar with the concept of a "homophobathon"? The idea is that when a Phelps picket is anticipated, you ask sponsors to pledge a certain amount of money towards a gay-positive cause for each homophobe that participates.    I heard of this idea shortly after Matthew Shephard's murder, but I don't know if anyone carried it out or not. Seems like a great idea to me. It would be frustrating and embarrassing to the Phelps group, and somewhat amusing to gay-positive people, and would raise some money for a good cause, without inhibiting anyone's free speech.

Perhaps some variation of it could be organized for the the monument issue.   Let them put it up, but organize a campaign for people to donate 25 cents for each day the monument stands to a group that does anti-homophobia workshops in high schools or something like that.

Marion


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Amos
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 01:23 PM

Sheeeeeshe!!

This sort of thing does not reflect well on the species. What flagrant stupidity.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Casual Observer
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:10 PM

One of my family members is gay. I have had many gay friends and co-workers over the years, and treasured them the same as anyone else. When Matthew Shepard was killed, I was beside myself - what if he were my family member, my friend, my colleague?

I suppose people can make all the judgments about Matthew Shepard they want, but as for me, I don't know what was in his heart, I don't know what his relationship was with the Almighty. Only God knew that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: JennyO
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 12:09 PM

Dear GUEST, I was brought up a Methodist, and had a good dose of religion as a child. As I grew older, I was not so much confused as disillusioned, and decided long ago that I did not relate to Christianity, or any religion that assumes that we are sinners and need saving, or any religion that says "Our way is the only right way". That is the sort of thinking that provides fertile ground for nasty types like Phelps to flourish, AND be taken seriously by some.

I always felt an affinity with nature-based spirituality, without knowing what label to give myself, and these days I am quite clear about the path I am taking. You might call me a pagan or a witch, but I still prefer not to put any labels on it myself.

My present life on this planet is all just a part of a learning process for my soul. That is how I see it. We are all going through this - each at a different stage along our chosen path, and each in our own way. So I would never say my way is the only right way.

I see Jesus as one of the great teachers and many of his ideas are very worthy, but there is a lot of wisdom to be gained from other great teachers and shamans too. Actually, I have been looking within a lot lately. That's where the greatest wisdom comes from.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: curmudgeon
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 11:50 AM

And now, this depraved hate monger is coming to New Hampshire to protest the installation of Canon Gene Robinson as Episcopal Bishop this coming Sunday. Would that there could be more instant karma for his likes.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 10:06 AM

Dear Jenny O..please do not equate the actions of some christians(in the name of christanity) with christian beliefs.they are totally different things. Perhaps you are no longer a christian because you were confused as to what was christian. Every religion, belief, tenet,political party has it's bigots ,nutters and perverts, they are usually the exception and not the rule.
   As for the likes of Phelps..well, what can one say. These abhorant types are always with us, unfortunately.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Oct 03 - 01:08 AM

Why doesn't everyone just laugh at him? Laugh when he preaches, laugh when he rants, laugh when he shows up. Taking him seriously grants him a sick sort of validation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:32 PM

Guest PDC Thanks for the link-I read it all-I feel like I need a bath. Absolutely the most vile rantings I've ever seen. I guess the "Rev" & his sick cohorts will be the only ones in heaven. I don't expect Jesus will be the there, seeing he was an unmarried Jew. The "Rev" wanted to go preach in the streets of Baghdad - why don't we buy the bastard a ticket.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:29 PM

It's not just Phelps. On TV they did a sound byte of a middleaged woman, looked normal, you could imagine her playing with her grandchildren. She too said that God hates gays and sends them to hell. Wonder if she ever thinks about what to do with those who bear false witness, worship other gods or none at all, gossipers and other 'unholy' ones that are berated and condemned in the Bible.

I know a lot of people who probably come close to agreeing with their take on it. They would say that the group is going too far, no doubt, but they do feel that they know what God thinks. Iran with its ayatollahs is not so different from us.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: LadyJean
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 11:24 PM

One of the ladies in my church, obviously, started life as a gentleman. OK, I think a man in women's clothes is funny. I don't think she's evil, or dangerous. I'm scared that some of the God hates fags crowd will show up at my church some Sunday.
That nasty monument would be a target for vandals. Which is an excellent reason for the good people of Laramie to tell the loathesome reverend that they don't want it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:46 PM

Have a friend who is a priest, he would say God hates the sin, but loves the sinner.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:25 PM

What really rubs me the wrong way is the lack of logic. Those who profess to be Christian often say "God works in mysterious ways," when something doesn't go the way they think it should have. Then they say such things as "God hates fags."

There is such a ridiculous contradiction there that I wonder that they don't see it. If God's ways are mysterious, how can anyone claim to know what God does/doesn't like?

Oh, please.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 10:16 PM

yeah...he makes me wonder why he hates gay people so much....is he hiding something?


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:54 PM

Good Lord--what strikes me immediately is his incoherence. It sounds like he has a grab-bag of ugly terms and just uses any or all of them at once. You could pretty much fill in the blank for his target-of-the-moment. It makes him look wonderfully mentally feeble.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: JennyO
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:47 PM

This sort of thing just reminds me why I'm not a Christian anymore. I know there are many well meaning Christians - I am friends with some of them - but I have encountered a lot of intolerance and judgmental attitudes amongst so-called Christians, and throughout history, many crimes of violence have been committed and far too many bloody wars fought in the name of Christianity. This is not what Jesus intended. Somewhere along the way, the Christian Church has got it terribly wrong.

Unfortunately, Fred Phelps is the result of the intolerance and hatred common to some extreme fundamentalist "Christians". He's not the only one. I had an uncle like that, so have experienced it first hand, because he made me a target. I was quite relieved when he died. He was a dangerous man.

It is not consistent with my beliefs to wish harm on anyone, but with Fred Phelps, I just might make an exception. Lets just say that I hope he gets what he deserves, and soon.

Jenny


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:25 PM

pdc, thanks for the link. Seems I may have misunderstood your first posting.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:11 PM

If you want to read a lot more about the Right Reverend Mr. Phelps, professional homophobic and ugly human being in general:

Ignorant hatred


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 09:09 PM

I was just watching an interview yesterday with a gay Priest. I can't remember his name though. It seems priests are coming out of the closet. I think this minister raising hell is nothing but a hypocrite, and should find a new profession if he can't relate to "Love thy neighbor" anymore.
Peace, Rustic


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: curmudgeon
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:49 PM

Let's name the misanthrope -- Fred Phelps -- a man so evil that he could make W. look compassionate by contrast.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:27 PM

Since the man clearly doesn't accept the Ten Commandments, it's a bit strange he uses them to justify his own perverted religious views.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 08:14 PM

Mathew Shephard entered hell before he died.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:55 PM

Sorcha, we cross-posted.:-) It was my understanding that most of the haters come with him from his congregation in Kansas. At the time Matthew was murdered, I saw a mostly united WY stand against his hatred. I would hope that is still true. I know there are a lot of rednecks there, but I just don't think they are the types to cross that line. I am sure the creep didn't like the article in TIME on the 18th.


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:39 PM

That gawddamned minister has used Matthew as a lightening rod for his hated from the instant Matthew was murdered. I'll bet they take down the ten commandments before they allow that kind of crap. I was in the thick of the human rights movement in WY when he was killed and watched the Bapstard carry signs with messages of hatred at Matthew's funeral. I have a deep belief in the decency of most Wyomingites and I cannot believe they will allow this to happen.

Thanks for the alert, Mickey,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Sorcha
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:37 PM

Sick, sick,sick people, but that is Wyoming Goatroper Rednecks for you.


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Subject: BS: Matthew Shepard
From: Mickey191
Date: 28 Oct 03 - 07:34 PM

Matthew Shephard was a young man who was brutally murdered, 5 years ago, because he was gay. A Baptist minister is petioning the town of Laramie, Wyoming to allow a headstone to be placed in a town park.The inscription will read - Matthew Shepard entered hell on Oct. 18, 1998. Brokaw said the town may have to allow it because they've allowed a monument with the ten commandments. The petioners were there with their signs stating "God Hates Fags" & "God Hated Mathew Shephard." I'm sick. What say you?


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