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Origins: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)

DigiTrad:
THREE FISHERS


Related thread:
(origins) Origins: Meaning of line in 'Three Fishers' (8)


In Mudcat MIDIs:
Three Fishers (per Malcolm: The DT file correctly credits the text of this song to Charles Kingsley, but the music was written by John Hullah, not Hull. The text was apparantly transcribed from a Joan Baez record; she seems to have added some unnecessary words to Kingsley's song (the men must work and the women must weep...) which I have not included in the midi, made from notation in Songs of England, ed. J.L. Hatton and Eaton Faning (Boosey & Hawkes, undated), as this is not a traditional song. It appears that Stan Rogers recorded Kingsley's text set to a new tune by his brother Garnet, but this one is the original.)


Mark A. Mandel 31 Jan 97 - 11:15 AM
arnowitt 01 Feb 97 - 09:23 PM
dick greenhaus 01 Feb 97 - 10:35 PM
alarose@ncwc.edu 04 Feb 97 - 06:27 PM
Betty 18 Feb 97 - 12:47 PM
Bill D 18 Feb 97 - 10:21 PM
Jerry Friedman, jfriedman@nnm.cc.nm.us 23 Feb 97 - 07:45 PM
Dan Calder 27 Feb 97 - 08:49 PM
arnowitt 27 Feb 97 - 09:24 PM
Joe Offer 04 Aug 03 - 07:24 PM
masato sakurai 04 Aug 03 - 08:23 PM
delphinium 04 Aug 03 - 08:30 PM
Don Firth 04 Aug 03 - 08:35 PM
Bill D 04 Aug 03 - 09:07 PM
masato sakurai 04 Aug 03 - 09:27 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Aug 03 - 10:03 PM
DonMeixner 04 Aug 03 - 10:54 PM
masato sakurai 04 Aug 03 - 11:18 PM
Dave Bryant 05 Aug 03 - 12:10 PM
Malcolm Douglas 05 Aug 03 - 12:25 PM
Don Firth 05 Aug 03 - 12:44 PM
GUEST,mg 05 Aug 03 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,John DeSantis 29 Jan 04 - 12:18 AM
GUEST 22 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM
DonMeixner 22 Aug 04 - 01:31 PM
GUEST,Amber Pelletier 06 Apr 07 - 05:17 PM
Strollin' Johnny 07 Apr 07 - 01:59 AM
GUEST,Guitar Nooby 02 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM
Backwoodsman 03 Jun 07 - 03:46 AM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 07 - 08:20 AM
DonMeixner 04 Jun 07 - 03:05 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 07 - 03:12 PM
DonMeixner 04 Jun 07 - 03:16 PM
Backwoodsman 04 Jun 07 - 03:43 PM
GUEST,DonMeixner 05 Jul 07 - 06:15 PM
Backwoodsman 06 Jul 07 - 09:16 AM
Jim Dixon 09 Jul 07 - 09:26 PM
mg 18 Mar 21 - 01:02 AM
mg 18 Mar 21 - 04:49 PM
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Subject: Three Fishers
From: Mark A. Mandel
Date: 31 Jan 97 - 11:15 AM

I am looking for "Three Fishers". It begins,

Three fishers went sailing out into the west, out into the west as the sun went down

but I have forgotten a few of the words.


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Subject: Lyr Add: THREE FISHERS (Charles Kingsley, J Hullah
From: arnowitt
Date: 01 Feb 97 - 09:23 PM

Here you go

THE THREE FISHERS
(Charles Kingsley, J Hullah)

Three fishers went sailing out into the West.
Out into the West as the sun went down;
Each thought on the woman who loved him the best,
And the children stood watching them out of the town;
For men must work and women must weep,
For there's little to earn, and many to keep,
And the harbour bar be moaning.

Three wives sat up in the light-house tower,
And they trimmed the lamps as the sun went down,
They looked at the squall, and they looked at the shower,
And the night rack came rolling up ragged and brown!
But men must work, and women must weep,
Though storms be sudden, and waters deep,
And the harbour bar be moaning.

Three corpses lay out on the shining sands
In the morning gleam as the tide went down,
And the women are weeping and wringing their hands
For those who will never come back to the town;
For men must work and women must weep,
And the sooner it's over, the sooner to sleep—
And good-bye to the bar and its moaning.

Words: Charles Kingsley
Music: John Hullah
I heard it on a Joan Baez recording, and I believe that it's in one of her songbooks if you're looking for chords.


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 01 Feb 97 - 10:35 PM

Hi- thanx much


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: alarose@ncwc.edu
Date: 04 Feb 97 - 06:27 PM

My ear is faulty, but it sounded like "the harbour bouy" to me.


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: Betty
Date: 18 Feb 97 - 12:47 PM

I've heard this song recorded by Stan Rogers, don't know which album. But I'm sure he's saying "harbor bar". Could be my (equally) faulty ear too of course...


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Feb 97 - 10:21 PM

It was recorded by Richard Dyer-Bennet about 35 years ago....absolutely marvelous recording..(on his own label..Dyer-Bennet Records)


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: Jerry Friedman, jfriedman@nnm.cc.nm.us
Date: 23 Feb 97 - 07:45 PM

I believe it's "bar". I couldn't find the Kingsley poem, but here's the beginning of "Crossing the Bar", by Alfred, Lord Tennyson:

Sunset and evening star, And one clear call for me! And may there be no moaning of the bar, When I put out to sea,

I suspect the bar is a sandbar that protects the harbor from waves. But I'm a total landlubber, so what do I know?


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: Dan Calder
Date: 27 Feb 97 - 08:49 PM

Performed by Stan Rogers on his "For the Family" album. It was written by his brother Garnet. Check out the Stan Rogers Page. You'll find it and many other great tunes there. http://www.io.org/~njo/srogers/stan.html Enjoy.


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Subject: RE: Three Fishers
From: arnowitt
Date: 27 Feb 97 - 09:24 PM

I do NOT believe that Garnet Rogers wrote Three Fishers. I believe that Richard Dyer Bennet predates Garnet. P'raps it's a different song????


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 07:24 PM

The lyrics in the second message of this thread have been included in the Digital Tradition. They are exactly the lyrics printed in the CD booklet for the Stan Rogers recording For the Family (and also identical to those in the Joan Baez Songbook). The notes in the Rogers CD booklet say this is a poem by Charles Kingsley. The tune attribution is unclear. Garnet Rogers wrote the CD booklet notes:
    Stan brought this poem to rehearsal one day with the idea we could work it into an acapella tune. I perverted his fragment of melody to my own ends, and added the Jimi Hendrix violin.

So, can somebody explain that to me, and tell me who wrote the tune? I take it Stan supplied the basic melody - or did it come from Dyer-Bennet or somebody else???
Malcolm says he believes some words were added to the original text in the Baez/Rogers version. If so, what is the pristine version of the poem?
The Baez book says the tune was written by English musician, singer, and music teacher John Hullah. Charles Kingsley was a 19th Century English clergyman and novelist.
-Joe Offer-

The original poem can be found at bartleby.com


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 08:23 PM

From Levy Sheet Music Collection:
Title: The Three Fishers. A Ballad.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: By the Rev. Charles Kingsley. Music by S.D.S. & Hullah.
S. D. S. Hullah Publication: New York: S.T. Gordon, 706 Broadway, n.d..

Title: The Three Fishers. Die Drei Fischer. A Ballad.
Composer, Lyricist, Arranger: By the Rev. Charles Kingsley. Music by S.D.S. & Hullah.
S. D. S. Hullah Publication: New York: S.T. Gordon, 706 Broadway, 1856.
From Amercan Memory:
Three Fishers Went Sailing (Kingsley and Hullah)
Boston, Massachusetts, Oliver Ditson & Co., [1879?]

The Three Fishers. (Harper's New Monthly Magazine. / Volume 28, Issue 167, April, 1864) [words only]

Three Fishers (Kingsley and Hullah; part song arr. by W. F. Sudds).
--: --, 1883.

The Three Fishers; Ballad (Words by Charles Kingsley; Music by Henry Schoenefeld) [For male voices]
Chicago: Chicago Music Co., 1885.

The Three Fishers - Die Drei Fischer (Words by Charles Kingsley; Music by Charles Kunkel)
Saint Louis: Kunkel Bros., 1883

The Three Fishers (music by Robert Goldbeck) [For male voices]
New York: Schirmer, G., 1878.

The Three Fishers, Ballad (Written by Rev. Chas. Kinglsley; Music by S. D. S.).
Boston: Oliver Ditson, 1856.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: delphinium
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 08:30 PM

Masato beat me here (and did a better job) at showing all the different versions, but I'll add a few things.

Lyrics above are only slightly changed from Kingsley's original poem (e.g. see here).

According to AMG, Joan Baez, Clara Butt and Richard Dyer-Bennet recorded the song with Hullah's melody, and Stan Rogers and Jill Rogoff have recorded it using a different tune by "Rogers" (Stan and Garnet, according to the album notes).

While looking this up, I just listened to the Stan Rogers & Joan Baez versions - both use the lyrics pretty much as above (Stan repeats the last phrase) - Joanie's version sounds a little more like Kingsley & 19thC, Stan's sounds a little more, well, Stan-like ...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Don Firth
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 08:35 PM

Wow! Whole bunch of stuff just came in! Anyway, here's what I came up with:--

I first heard Three Fishers sung by Richard Dyer-Bennet on the first record on his own label, Dyer-Bennet Records #1. In the liner notes, he gives the same information as given by Lesley Nelson-Burns on the Contemplator web site—poem by Charles Kingsley, set to music by John Hullah.

This pre-dates Joan Baez and Stan Rogers' brother by quite a bit. The words on the Contemplator web site are the same as those sung by Dyer-Bennet as far as I remember (the record I have is on vinyl and my turntable is on the fritz right now), and the tune is the same, except that the MIDI file goes a good bit faster than the way Dyer-Bennet sang it.

Further info HERE

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 09:07 PM

the midi in the DT 'seems' to have the notes, but requires some creative listening and imagination to approximate what Dyer-Bennet did with the pacing and speed. (I have the book "Heart Songs" referred to in Don's final link [and I suppose many others do, too]...I could scan it and post it if it would help anyone)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 09:27 PM

The song is also on Dame Clara Butt -- Britain's Queen of Song (Pearl) [with sound clip].


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 10:03 PM

I didn't say I "believed" such-and-such; I stated it as fact, which it is. Masato has provided extensive documentation in case anyone is still in any doubt.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 10:54 PM

I'm certain I have heard this song many years ago with a very similar melody to what Stan used. I too have Heart Songs from 1887 and the meolody appears the same as in Joan Baez's song book of Ballads.

I have never, however, found a set of chrds that made sense to this song.

Don


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: masato sakurai
Date: 04 Aug 03 - 11:18 PM

"Three Fishers Were Sailing" in Heart Songs (1909; Clearfield reprint, 1997, pp. 192-93) is by J. Hullah.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 12:10 PM

Malcolm, I don't quite understand your comments about:

"she seems to have added some unnecessary words to Kingsley's song (the men must work and the women must weep...)".

Masato's first facsimile score contains these very lines.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 12:25 PM

That's because my comments, made in another thread, have been reproduced here without my formatting, which made clear what I meant.

(the men must work and the women must weep...)

The emboldened words are examples of the unnecessary interpolations I was talking about, and do not occur in Kingsley's poem, or in Hullah's setting of it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Don Firth
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 12:44 PM

Malcolm, agreed! Dyer-Bennet doesn't sing the thes. Extraneous words.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 05 Aug 03 - 03:43 PM

`Yes..please unless you are fatally in love witht he Stan Rogers tune, sing the older tune..just because...

mg


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: GUEST,John DeSantis
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 12:18 AM

I absolutely love all versions. But more to the point here ... does anyone know what specifically is meant by the harbor bar moaning? I assume that must be wind or waves or some such. But maybe someone knows definiteively. Please if you can e-mail answer to nycajun@bellsouth.net. Thank you - John


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 12:10 PM

I am trying to find the words of the poem called The Three Fishers by Charles Kingsley


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: DonMeixner
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 01:31 PM

As I re-read this thread I am sure that the first version of this song I can recall hearing was by Jean Redpath. And I am convinced that her version is so similar to that of Stan Rogers as to be identical, with in the confines of an arrangement.

Don

still a great song. I wish I could find some dependable chords.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: GUEST,Amber Pelletier
Date: 06 Apr 07 - 05:17 PM

Nathan Rogers, Stan Rogers son, has recorded a version of Three Fishers based on the melody written by Garnet Rogers and recorded by Stan on For the Family. Very much within the Rogers tradition. Can find him at www.nathanrogers.ca or hear a clip of the music at CDBaby.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Apr 07 - 01:59 AM

And very good it is too. In fact the whole CD ('True Stories') is excellent, esp. 'Mary's Child', 'Hibbing' and 'Hold The Line'.

A chip off the old block is Nate, but individual too - like a younger, modernised Stan.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: GUEST,Guitar Nooby
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 06:44 PM

I'd love to have the chords for this song


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 03 Jun 07 - 03:46 AM

Verse:-
Am, C, G
Am, C, G
F, C, G
Am, C, G

Chorus:-
C, F, G
Am, C, G
F, G
Am, F, G, C

You'll hear the changes.
BWM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 08:20 AM

No need to thank me. :-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:05 PM

Thanks Woodsie,

Thank you very much. I always say thanks. That is because I'm a thankful person. Were I not it would have been "No Thanks" but since I plan to sing it I better say thanks. My Grandmother said, "If you don't plan to be rich you had better be polite."
So thanks again.

Don


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:12 PM

Were you the Guitar Nooby Don? If so, I apologise. And thanks for your thanks! :-) :-)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:16 PM

Nah! Been playing for years but I have never puzzled this song out right. Something about the relatively simple ones always escapes me.

Thanks really, No joke.

Don


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 04 Jun 07 - 03:43 PM

OK Don, gotcha! :-)
All the best, fella!
BWM


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Subject: Chords Add: THREE FISHERS (Charles Kingsley)
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jul 07 - 06:15 PM

I love this song. These are the chords as supplied by BackWoodsman

Don

THREE FISHERS
(Charles Kingsley and John Hull)

Three fis[Am]hers went sailing out in[C]to the we[G]st
Out in[Am]to the west as the su[C]n went do[G]wn
Each tho[F]ught on the woman that lov[C]ed him the be[G]st
And the chil[Am]dren stood watching them o[C]ut of the to[G]wn

For the m[C]en must work and the wo[F]men must we[G]ep
For there's lit[Am}tle to earn and ma[C]ny to ke[G]ep
And the har[F}bour bar be moa[G]ning
And the har[Am]bour b[F]ar be moa[G]ni[C]ng

Three wives sat up in the lighthouse tower
They trimmed the lamps as the sun went down
And they looked at the squall and they looked at the shower
And the night-wrack came rolling in, ragged and brown
For the men must work and the women must weep
'Though storms be sudden and waters be deep
And the harbour bar be moaning

Three corpses lay out on the shining sand
In the morning gleam as the tide went down
And the women were weeping and wringing their hands
For those who would never come back to the town
For the men must work and the women must weep
And the sooner it's over, the sooner to sleep
And goodbye to that bar and its moaning


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 06 Jul 07 - 09:16 AM

Yep, a great song. And a great tune by Garnet.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 09 Jul 07 - 09:26 PM

I have compared the lyrics posted by arnowitt above to the words of the poem as published in Charles Kingsley's "Poems" (1856), page 235 (which you can view at Google Book Search) and I can see only 2 differences:

Verse 1 lines 6-7:

And there's little to earn, and many to keep,
Though the harbour bar be moaning.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 01:02 AM

I find the tunes in question to be very similar. I suspect that there was a memory fragment that worked its way into the Rogers tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Three Fishers (Charles Kingsley)
From: mg
Date: 18 Mar 21 - 04:49 PM

we are going to record this with the original tune. here is an old version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1Tj1v5XPMc
click here

i still think this sounds like the ROgers' version but it is extremely important that we stay totally away from his for copyright reason. My friend who is going to sing it somehow got them mixed in together so we have to separate them 100%.

anyway, does anyone sing this version. has to be this version. no quarter given. and if so, do you have the chords for guitar? I think she has the Joan Baez songbook which says it is in A but seems to be in b flat. is there a computer program or smart person who can change to other keys? This is a very important song for our CD.

Also, she is a great singer but worries that the leaps of notes are too great..any suggestions?


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