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Request respectful Veterans Day Thread
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Fred (Beetle) Bailey Date: 14 Nov 03 - 09:00 PM Thanks to katlaughing and Mary Garvey -- I was in the Ashau more than once -- and then picked the last 'hook load of 101st off that damn hill above Khontum -- my hook was Ol' Stewball -- The song gets one or two airplays this time of year -- peace
-Joe Offer-
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: mg Date: 13 Nov 03 - 12:37 PM Great song Beetle, especially the line about the ramp. I have a song that I probably have never sung...although maybe I posted it...it is for the crew that loaded up the helicopter for the last trip home... Tune is Nevada Jane by Utah Phillips but he says it is really Gentle Annie although I don't hear the similarity.. It is for the 101st and anyone in the Ashau Valley... I have walked in the places where the angels fear to tread Carried out the wounded carried out the dead And a little voice inside me says why not you instead In the valley of the shadow of death I have ______ in places with no name Sent men back to freedom who will never be the same And each of us and all of us and no one is to blame In the valley of the shadow of death There is not a single woman who will wait for me a year In the land of hope and promise in the land of ice cold beer Not a one to know my secrets not a one to know my fear In the valley of the shadow of death Wrap him in his poncho strap him with his lace They got him in the bootie they got him in the face What the hell it don't mean nothing someone else will take his place In the valley of the shadow of death mg |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: katlaughing Date: 13 Nov 03 - 10:03 AM Welcome home, Beetle, and thank you, very much, for sharing. It is really well done. Mitakuye Oyasin, katlaughing/kat |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Fred (Beetle) Bailey Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:05 AM Song of an aging Chinook crew-chief: You saw him walkin' down the street and you quickly looked away, Cause you don't know where you stand with him and you don't know what to say. Remembering no welcome, so you care that no one cared, But you don't look in his eyes because you're scared of seeing scared. And some remember sacrifice and glory in the war, Some remember parties, with their buddies and the whores. Some march in parades to say that "they did not die in vain", Others turn their backs to try to hide their grief and shame. And some you'll see 'a-walkin' point in the alleys way downtown Pushin' grocery carts with dirty flags 'a-hangin' down. Trundle-ing their fortunes up and down the city streets Survivors of the war, forever wounded by the peace. And sometimes I've awakened when the nights were hot and damp With a couple 'a squads of infantry 'a-sloggin' down the ramp To a long forgotten fire-fight in a screamin' stinkin' dawn Where some teen-aged soldier fell and puked his life up and was gone So many flags were folded for the mothers and the wives 50 nylon stars -- 50 thousand lives But a Democratic order tells the young ones what to do To the Viet Cong guerilla, like the Powder River Sioux So the next time that you see him on the streets out in the rain You don't owe him no money, and he ain't expectin' fame Don't lay your standards on him, man, just leave him free to roam But maybe you could shake his hand and tell him "Welcome Home" |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: kendall Date: 12 Nov 03 - 07:14 PM Mike, I'm confused, how could you be too old for Korea, but not for Viet Nam? Kendall, Seaman 1st class. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: GUEST,Big Mick Date: 12 Nov 03 - 07:08 PM Just reading through this thread made mne think of another old thread. Thanks for this, Sister Mary. http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=9359#60580 |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Raedwulf Date: 12 Nov 03 - 06:16 PM The generations of my family skipped both Wars. AFAIK, only my maternal grandfather served. As I remember being told, he was at Arras in 1918, & he would also wake up screaming in the night for many years afterwards. I am not of a mindset to have 'favourites' in any sphere, but WWI is a fascination for me, & (for what it is worth) I offer the following poem, which says more for/to me than even the Wilfrid Owen's & Siegfried Sassoon's: In Memoriam by Ewart Alan Mackintosh (killed in action 21 November 1917 aged 24) (Private D Sutherland killed in action in the German trenches, 16 May 1916, and the others who died.) So you were David's father, And he was your only son, And the new-cut peats are rotting And the work is left undone, Because of an old man weeping, Just an old man in pain, For David, his son David, That will not come again. Oh, the letters he wrote you, And I can see them still, Not a word of the fighting, But just the sheep on the hill And how you should get the crops in Ere the year get stormier, And the Bosches have got his body, And I was his officer. You were only David's father, But I had fifty sons When we went up in the evening Under the arch of the guns, And we came back at twilight - O God! I heard them call To me for help and pity That could not help at all. Oh, never will I forget you, My men that trusted me, More my sons than your fathers', For they could only see The little helpless babies And the young men in their pride. They could not see you dying, And hold you while you died. Happy and young and gallant, They saw their first-born go, But not the strong limbs broken And the beautiful men brought low, The piteous writhing bodies, They screamed 'Don't leave me, sir', For they were only your fathers But I was your officer. Inspiration On the evening of 16 May, 1916 Lieutenant Ewart Alan Mackintosh and Second Lieutenant Mackay of the 5th Battalion Seaforth Highlanders led a raid on the German trenches in the sector of the front line north-west of Arras. By the end of the night there were sixteen British casualties, which included fourteen wounded and two killed. One of the two dead soldiers was Private David Sutherland. Rædwulf |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Murph10566 Date: 12 Nov 03 - 05:26 PM A Salute to all our Brother and Sister Veterans and their Families... Thanks to you, Mary, and to all the contributors here who have shared so much of their hearts and memories in this thread... I've just returned from Washington, DC, where my wife Patricia and I attended the Ceremonies held there at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial; it was an important and meaningful visit for us, as always... This year was the observance of the 10th Anniversary of the dedication of the Women's Vietnam Veterans' Memorial near The Wall. Recognition so long in coming, has at last been afforded the amazing women who gave (and STILL give) so much... As I always do, I visited my Friends whose names are etched on so many of the panels there. They're a part of me still... The chorus from my song 'The Wall': And every Name's a Father or a Husband or a Son, Or a Daughter or a Brother or a Cousin to Someone - Or a Name might be a Classmate or a Friend you may recall: There's nearly sixty thousand fallen Names still waiting at The Wall. God bless the Vet... Murph |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Peace Date: 12 Nov 03 - 02:08 PM Whatever, Bill. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: OVER THE HILLS AND FAR AWAY From: GUEST Date: 12 Nov 03 - 11:58 AM Here's forty shillings on the drum, for those who'll volunteer to come To list and fight the foe today, over the hills and far away O'er the hills and far away through Flanders,Portugal and Spain King George Commands and we obey Over the hills and far away When duty calls me I must go to stand and face another foe, But part of me shall always stay Over the hills and far away. If I should fall to rise no more As many comrades did before Then bid the fifes and drums to play Over the hills and far away The fall in lads behind the drum with colours blazing like the sun along the road to come what may over the hills and far away Though I may wander far from Spain a part of me shall still remain For you are with me night and day Over the hills and far away |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy Date: 12 Nov 03 - 11:11 AM Brucie - Charles M. Province writes stupid useless drivel- It is we the people who have freedom of the press. It is we the people who have freedom of speech. It is we the people who have the freedom to demonstrate. It is we the people who have the right to a fair trial. It is we the people who have the right to burn the flag. none of our freedoms were 'given' to us by any soldier some of our freedoms were defended for us by some soldiers that's all that can be said truthfully the 'poem' by Province is meaningless melodrama, designed to inflame and incite the right to mobilize against 'too much' freedom for the rest of us who don't agree with you. my sympathies, respect and thanks to the vets who have sacrificed. my disgust and scorn for the politicians who misled them and put them in harms way. my utmost disgust and scorn for the Rush Limbaughs, Bill Kristols, Bill O'Reillys and thier ilk who use the dead bodies and broken limbs of veterans to further thier own personal careers and agendas. finally, my sympathies, respect and thanks also to the Americans who refused to serve. By doing so they exercise the freedoms we all cherish. there is no freedom if it is not acted on, if it is just enshrined somewhere and we say 'those are our FREEDOMS. but don't think about living as if they mean something. our leaders know best, just shup up and stay in line.' I expect this response may be unfairly relegated to the BS bin, but that's where this whole thread belongs. I am not trying to politicise this thread, but Armistice Day/Veterans Day is not meant to be a feel good remembrance, but a 'never again if we can help it' remembrance. work for peace, there is no glory in war. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Blackcatter Date: 12 Nov 03 - 01:57 AM My father served in WWII on a seaplane-tender: the USS Lapwing. One uncle served in WWII on a destroyer going through both the Coral Sea and Midway battles. Another uncle served during Vietnam in Military intelligence in Germany. My great uncle served in the trenches in WWI and was gassed - he was never healthy for the rest of his life. A great grandfather from Vermont fought in several Civil War battles including Gettysburg and Chancelorville. My closest male friend flew F-4 missions over Vietnam. They all came home alive. Last Sunday, my church had 4 speakers during the service. One flew bombing missions over Germany in WWII. One was a lady who lived in Berlin throughout the war and emmigrated to the U.S. in 1950. One was a man who grew up in Saigon, Vietnam and escaped to the US with most of his family before the fall of Saigon. One was a Huey helicopter pilot who flew missions in the Mekong Delta. Powerful stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Miken Date: 12 Nov 03 - 12:59 AM Remembering my mother's cousin Roger, who died in a strafing run while on the old carrier Saratoga, in WWII. Remembering my Uncle Gordie.. who survived the Bataan death march, and two years of prison camp and carried the emotional and nutritional scars the rest of his life, but who became a highly respected expert on detention and confinement as a psychologist, when he came back. He didn't like to share those experiences much, but after a few of an evening would sometimes do so. Then he'd ask me to sing " The Good Reuben James". I, too, was too old for Korea, but not for Viet Nam. Remembering My good friend Mike Thomas, Navy Seal and Chief Corpsman who survived two tours in Nam, but died three years ago to cancer. I took my usual lunchtime walk around the military portion of Evergreen Washelli cemetary near where I work, today. and there were lots of folks walking through the site and laying flowers. I thought of Mike's wife Mary who told me in an E-Mail yesterday that she couldn't be at home alone again this Christmas but would visit her sister in San Francisco this year. I asked her if she could come up north to Seattle since she would be on this coast ( lives in N.C), but she said she was afraid of all the old memories of when Mike was in Nam, and she was waiting here for hime to come back. Thanks for the thread, Mary. I remember last year's unpleasant experience. Mike |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: GUEST Date: 12 Nov 03 - 12:00 AM Clinton, Your "11:11" is a very moving set of lyrics. Did you know that Garnet Rogers is going around claiming that he wrote it? |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Peace Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:57 PM Found this on another site and thought it had a place here. The Soldier It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, not the lawyer, who has given us the right to a fair trial. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves under the flag, and whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag. By Charles M. Province |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Mickey191 Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:31 PM Thank you Mary for this thread. Your song touched me deeply, thinking of all the fine young men & women and their families, whose lives have been changed forever. These heartfelt stories make me so angry that the lesson is never learned. The old men make the wars and the young men pay. The War to end all wars, Peace in our time. It's man's inumanity to man, and there is no end in sight. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Peace Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:51 PM From reading this series of writings today, I know why I can't ever listen to Kenny Roger's song "Twenty Years Ago" without getting tears in my eyes. Thank you all very much for sharing thoughts, ideas and feelings that have touched your lives so intimately. And thank you, Mary, for starting this thread. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:29 PM Some ramblings. When I was a child, I confusedly called this date "Novembrance Day." My father helped liberate Arnheim, in Holland. He survived, but lost four friends to that battle, and would never talk about it. A few years ago, I (a middle-aged Canadian woman) held and consoled a tattooed, muscle-shirted American man who was probably a Hell's Angel, as he sobbed at the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC. I provided Kleenex, a shoulder, and two ears. He told me later he'd never been able to talk about it before. I can't really talk about it now. My husband stood and watched, completely overwhelmed by this episode. Who said "war is the ultimate failure"? Is there anyone in the world whose life has not been touched by war? Will we ever learn? |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: mg Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:08 PM thanks..here is a song I wrote for the Korean veterans...horrible times they had...tune is the verse part of Dainty Davy Those we left there in the cold We remember we remember Have no fears of growing old Oh do we remember Those who fell face down in mud (quote from Ollie North) We remember we remember Asian soil Yankee blood Oh do we remember Those who died in prison yards We remember we remember Savage weather savage guards Oh do we remember Heartbreak Ridge and Pork Chop Hill We remember we remember If we don't honor them who will Oh do we remember Those whose names we can't forget We remember we remember Comrade spirits with us yet Oh do we remember Those who died when far too young We remember we remember It is for them this song is sung Oh do we remember --- And we used to call it Armistice Day and I wish we still did. mg |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Rapparee Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:29 PM Sgt., Infantry, Korea, 1969. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: MarkS Date: 11 Nov 03 - 08:20 PM Thank you all A veteran is a great thing to be, but maybe not such a great thing to become. MarkS Vietnam 68-69 |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Peace Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:28 PM My grandfather fought at Mons and Ypres. He got some gas there, too. My dad fought with the Canadians in Italy, and he took part in the Normandy invasion. My step-dad fought in France, also. Today I remember two young men, friends of mine, who didn't come back from Vietnam. All five of these people are gone from my life, but please know you will never be gone from my memory. I hope the day will come when we truly turn our swords into ploughshares. Yes, it's time we did that. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Gareth Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:17 PM I think it might be appropriate to draw this(Click 'Ere) to 'Catter's attention. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: katlaughing Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:16 PM Lucy, well-penned, thank you so much for sharing your grandfather's poem. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Gareth Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:11 PM " And the endless North Atlantic, With the Convoys to and fro." My late father, who went from Normandy to Kiel, at the sharp end of XXX Corp would still wake up on the odd night screaming, as the memories overtook him. He survived, his father, my grandfather, a merchant seaman did not, Benjamin Williams, (DSM - Galipoli.) In 1939 his ship was "fished" running into Norway - The survivors, he was mate, were picked up by a German merchant ship, fortunately running north to Norway. I only have this second hand, but the German Skipper was only to pleased to discharge the survivors to the Norwegians - Post 1945 the German Captain and my Grandmother exchanged correspondance on many occasions up until the German Captains death in the early 50's. No malice there, as it should be at sea. Grandfather was repatiated. Further sinkings happened, including being picked out of the water by a US of A Coast Gaurd vessel. In my wardrobe, about 3 feet away from this computer, hangs a US of A Coast Guard Jacket - given to him as survivors clothing. He went master, then came PQ17. No now is a time to reflect, and honour the dead and thier ways of passing, by land, sea, or air, and also reflect upon the wounded, physically, or mentally. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Hawker Date: 11 Nov 03 - 05:38 PM My Grandfather, John Blakey, served in the Northumberland Fusileers in WWI and was at Passcendale, he lied about his age to go to war, being 1 year too young. He was one of the few who came home, shellshocked and a different man to the boy who went to war. He lived the rest of his life with a stammer. He wrote fantastic poems, one of which is called 'The PBI' about the Poor Bloody Infantry. I sing it to the star of the county down, as I feel, as a half Irish fiddle player he would have proably set it to something familiar. I also have his and his brother's fiddles, which also went to the front, one has been repaired with a piece of shell case! PBI We sing a song as we swing along An' a bit of a rude one too From spit and shine it's back to the line, Back for another do We know for some it's Kingdom come 'Cos some of us will die But there ain't no fuss for the likes of us For we are the PBI We've played our pranks, we've spent our francs We've boozed and gambled too We've tried our wiles with airs and smiles On demoiselles beaucoup But for all our swank we've drawn a blank We didn't get the eye For Madamoiselle, she knows full well The ways of the PBI We've shared our jokes we've shared our smokes Swapped snaps of wives and gals Told tales of woe and borrowed dough And always we were pals For the blokes what fight on your left and right When the gaff is raging high They play the game dedspite the name Of 'scruffy PBI' We went on the binge at Popperhinge We toasted Kaiser Bill We raised a storm at Ouderdom They talk about it still In the estaminet at Aubignay We left the cellar dry Did the froggies care? 'Non! c'est la guerre!' And C'est la PBI' We've written home, we've made it known That everything is bon We've got olf fritz licked into fits And the war is nearly won We're full o' the joys, like all the boys An' our leave is drawing nigh We'll stand or fall, liars all! The shameless PBI So we're off again to the old refrain Of the naughty Mademoiselle We singf away although we may Be marching straight to hell For you can bet Old Jerry's set To blow us all sky high An' we bless the day that we went away To join the PBI We sing a song as we swing along An' it may sound rude to you But things ain't nice and men ain't mice In the place we're going to We're for the top, a special op An' some of us will die But there ain't no fuss for the likes of us For we are the PBI. I PENNED THIS REPLY TO HIS AND ALL THE OTHER MEN WHO HAVE GONE TO WAR You sang your song as you swung along An' though I wasn't there to hear Two minutes silence make for remembrance sake On the 11th day, 11th month each year Wearing poppies red, for the mass bloodshed Passchendale, where the Gaff raged high! There's nearly none left at all to answer the call Of Brave old PBI If anybody does use it, our of respect to my Grandfather please state that he wrote it, whilst at the front. God bless, Lucy |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Rapparee Date: 11 Nov 03 - 01:35 PM My friend, Bob, enlisted back in '65. Since he had been working as a hospital orderly the Army sent him to school to become a medic. In 1966 he was at Qua Non, South Vietnam. In 1967 he was home and we'd sometimes talk about things he'd seen and done over a beer or six. I can tell what he told me, but you wouldn't understand it. If you've been a combat medic you *know*. By the time I'd gotten back from my own stint overseas I hardly saw Bob at all. He was back in school, studying horology (it's not what you think, you have dirty mind). Eventually he moved West, got married, came back to Illinois. I phoned him a couple of times over the years and we would always make plans to have a beer together and catch up. We never did, and three years ago he died. Stomach cancer. Brought on by the cigarettes he couldn't stop smoking, the doctor said. Cigarettes he once told me he was sure would kill him. His lighter said, "Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death I will fear no evil, for I am the meanest bastard in the valley." Bob got the lighter in 'Nam. He left a widow and two sons. Last year I visited his grave, poked a hole deep in the soil, and dropped two twenty-two caliber cartridges in. Bob would have understood, and I think that he appreciated the gesture. Visit The Wall in Washington DC sometime. Remember that Vietnam, like every war, continues to kill even when the fighting is long over. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Metchosin Date: 11 Nov 03 - 01:17 PM Lest we forget...thank you Bob. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Keith A of Hertford Date: 11 Nov 03 - 01:11 PM I met up with old friends still in my old Reserve unit last Sunday, which we call remembrance Sunday. They were mobilised and were with 3Para in Iraq. They were in the thick of it and OK but two others were badly wounded in the Chinook that was shot up. Call up of reserves is still going on and I might yet be called by my present unit. Both my parents were in the RAF from 1940 right through. We call today Armistice Day. A new memorial was unveiled in Hyde Park to honour Australian dead of both wars. Also this week a WW1 trench with several British dead was uncovered in Flanders. Dozens of remains get turned up by farming there every year. Mary, I sing Gethsemane to the tune of Derwent Water Farewell. I will sing it tonight at our monthly sing at Benington, putting on an old gas cape and helmet for the occasion. Also Home Lads Home. Rest for horse and man, Keith. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: kendall Date: 11 Nov 03 - 01:03 PM I have had a medal for many years, and have never worn it until today. I never got shot at, and I never shot anyone. I wear it to honor the veterans who DID get shot at, and who had to shoot others. War is the ultimate failure. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Mickey191 Date: 11 Nov 03 - 12:34 PM I graduated from High School with Robert. He was a nice, quiet young man. Daily Argus-Sep't. 30, 1970 A serviceman who returned unscathed from war service and who was killed in an auto accident last Friday in Sonoma,California, was buried with full military honors today at Pine Lawn National Cemetery. CPO Robert Edward Hanks 33, a veteran of the Vietnam War was a chief petty officer of communications with the Navy on Skaggs Island, California. During his two years of service in Vietnam he received a Presidential Unit Citation,a Navy Unit Commendation Medal with one Bronze Star, a Meritorious Unit Commendation Medal, Good Conduct Medal with Two Bronze Stars, the Vietnam Service Medal with Four Bronze Stars and the Republic of Vietnam Campaign Medal. He also was the recipient of the National Defense Service Medal. While in Vietnam he served on patrol ships and earned his Gold Wings on rescue helicopters. He returned to the states last February, after having been in Vietnam four times. We never know where our heroes come from. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Mickey191 Date: 11 Nov 03 - 11:41 AM In honor of Eddie Brown who was a POW in an unknown Stalag for 3 years. He came home, looking as death warmed over. He was the sweetest young man who gave me rides in a rumble seat car. He lived a year but succumbed to the TB he aquired whilst a prisoner. God Bless You Eddie. In honor of Etzel Stone, who also was a POW in Germany. He too came home, but was so far gone, whiskey was his only solace. Despite his beautiful young wife, he could not forget. Was found frozen to death in a railroad shack. In honor of John Stein, one lovely Sunday in December, sitting under a tree at Schofield Barracks. He was wounded badly, and was in a coma for 2 months.He carried with him forever, a terrible stutter, as a result of his injuries. In honor of William Hennings, 18 years old and burried in Belgium. Left a Mother & Sister to grieve forever for the unfulfilled promise of his life. In honor of Henry McDermott, a POW in Korea. Imprisoned in an underground cage for 3 months. Nearly died from starvation & disease, he too aquired a stutter. Came back & raised a lovely family. Died too young. There never was a good war, or a bad peace. Ben Franklin |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: katlaughing Date: 11 Nov 03 - 10:20 AM Alba, our own Art Thieme does a beautiful rendition of that song; it's how I learned it. Rapaire and jimmyt, I can barely see for the tears, but am so grateful for your sharing. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: PeteBoom Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:55 AM Green Hills of Tyrol is a Retreat March dating from the later 1800's. The lyrics above were set to it by Andy Stewart. Green Hills of Tyree is another tune altogether. Played the Remembrance Day ceremonies on Sunday in Windsor. Regards - Pete |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:36 AM Isn't it "The Green Hills of Tyree", not Tyrol? The respect is for the ones who faced death and the people who lost them. Never as a reason to justify the mistakes that led to the wars, or as a foundation for new wars. We call it Remembrance Day. Remembrance Day I remember the day when first we marched away, And so gaily they cheered us in the crowd, And it all seemed so clear, we were here and they were there, "Do and Dare, go on out and make us proud" But it wasn't quite the same When we came to where we came. It was plain there was nothing we could do, But were here for the show, We'll be here until we go, Don't we know it won't be long before we're through. And we're down in the dark as our world is blown apart, With our hearts in teh bottom of our boots. And we're tired and we're sore, And we just can't take much more, And at times it seems we're treated worse than brutes. But hear us joke, hear us sing, Hear us say "God Save the King", Why you'd think we were happy here in hell, And we'll stand side by side, And we'll mever say goodbye, And we'll die, and thye'll say that we done well. Well it's past and it's gone, And it's over, right or wrong. We were young and we answered to the call. And it's all far away, but it seems like yesterday, Though they say it all meant nothing after all. And each November once again we will gather in the rain, We still remain, though we're ading fast away, And God knows it's getting late, As we drink to long lost mates, And to the day we'll be together once again. So hear us joke, hear us sing, Hear us say "God Save the King", Why you'd think we were happy here in hell, And we'll stand side by side, And we'll mever say goodbye, And we'll die, and they'll say that we done well. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: jimmyt Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:30 AM My father flew out of Norfolk 32 missions during WW2. He was 17 lied about his age. Oldest man on the B17 was 21. My Uncle was shot down on Easter Sunday 1943 over Denmark. A young man rode his bike out to the wreck, pulled 2 wounded AMerican Flyers out of the burning wreckage, hid them in a haystack, and eventually got them in the Danish resistance, to have them rescued through NOrway. Unfortunately, my uncle was not one of the rescued. I had a chance to meet this young boy, now in his 80s a couple years ago, and it is still fresh in his mind, the entire horrible incident. He told us every detail, took us to the very site the plane went down, then brought flowers and 2 flags, a Danish one and an American one, for us to place on the memorial there in that little village in the Danish countryside. It was a terrible memory for him and still a terrible thing, war. I will say a prayer today for all those men, on both sides of the lines, who gave their lives following orders |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Rapparee Date: 11 Nov 03 - 09:02 AM 1942. My father enlisted, taking the place of his brother, who was about to be drafted and whose work was still needed at home (and who, when the work was done, enlisted himself). 1950. My father is killed while building a house, leaving three sons and a daughter, and a wife who never remarried. May 13, 1968. Two brothers, members of the National Guard, are sworn into "up to two years active Federal Service." By September, one would be at Chu Lai, South Vietnam. By January, 1969, the other would be be in Korea. May 14, 1968. The two older brother obtain passes to see the youngest off to the US Air Force for Basic Training. Eventually the young airman would also serve in Vietnam -- and in Thailand, the Phillipines, Okinawa -- as an Airborne Voice Intercept Specialist. The household went from five to two in 48 hours. No service stars went up in the window. All came home. One hid his Purple Heart from his mother, all were changed. Even the daughter who stayed home. My family, according to tradition, left Germany and arrived in the US just in time to serve in the Blackhawk War. We haven't missed one since; I have cousins in Iraq. This morning, in just about two hours, I have to give a short speech. The American Legion has given the Library a flagpole and today is the dedication. Speeches are for politicians, the deeds are for those the the politicians send in harm's way. Respect is due to those who do, and only rarely to those who only talk. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Micca Date: 11 Nov 03 - 08:38 AM "and now here on the West Front again its all so quiet the dead and missing do not make a sound drifting faintly from the German line a ghostly "Silent Night" but the trenches have returned into the ground " |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: GUEST Date: 11 Nov 03 - 08:04 AM To the scared young man who grew up dirt poor on a farm in Indiana, joined the Marines before the Army got a chance to draft him, and went to Viet Nam because he thought it was he was supposed to do - thank you. To the same man who spent the next 30 years of his life working in the special kind of hell they call a steel mill, is now on disability because of an accident at that steel mill, and hated every minute of it but stayed there because he had a family to support - thank you. From the luckiest daughter in the world, to the dad who has told her every day of her life that he loves her, even when she was acting like an ungrateful punk and had no idea of what real hardship was - thank you. I love you too. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: dwditty Date: 11 Nov 03 - 08:03 AM To all my sisters and brothers...Peace/ |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SCOTTISH SOLDIER From: Alba Date: 11 Nov 03 - 07:07 AM For my Father and for the all the Men and Women who are willing to put their lives in danger in order to protect ours. THANK YOU While we may disagree with the Goverments and the reasons that send them off to War. We cannot ignore the willingness of the few to protect the many or forget the Ones that don't come back. This song is my Father's favorite and still makes him cry at 84 years old for his two Brothers who didn't get back. THE SCOTTISH SOLDIER There was a soldier, A Scottish soldier Who wandered far away And soldiered far away There was none bolder, With good broad shoulder He's fought in many a fray, And fought and won. He'd seen the glory And told the story Of battles glorious And deeds neforious But now he's sighing, His heart is crying To leave these green hills of Tyrol. Chorus Because these green hills Are not highland hills Or the island hills, The're not my land's hills And fair as these green foreign hills may be They are not the hills of home JD |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Amos Date: 11 Nov 03 - 06:56 AM Wolfgang: How unusual! Yes, I believe it is aChinese poem from the 8th Century, translated by Ezra Pound. A |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Shields Folk Date: 11 Nov 03 - 06:23 AM Squire nagged and bullied till I went to fight, (Under Lord Derby's scheme). I died in hell - (They called it Passchendaele). My wound was slight, And I was hobbling back; and then a shell Burst slick upon the duckboards: so I fell Into the bottomless mud, and lost the light At sermon-time, while Squire is in his pew, He gives my gilded name a thoughtful stare; For, though low down upon the list, I'm there; "In proud and glorious memory" ... that's my due. Two bleeding years I fought in France, for Squire: I suffered anguish that he's never guessed. I came home on leave: and then went west... What greater glory could a man desire? |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 11 Nov 03 - 06:00 AM Byron worked for 30 years as a civilian in the Air Force. He had tremendous respect for the military, as much as he and I didn't like the political machine that made it. He taught me greater respect for the individuals who serve their country in this way. May all vets feel honored today. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Liz the Squeak Date: 11 Nov 03 - 06:00 AM I learned this year that of the 16 names on one WWI war memorial, I'm 'related' to a full quarter of them. 88 years ago this May, two brothers, a cousin and a father-in-law were lost in 24 hours. 3 years later a great great uncle was KIA in France. None of them have a known grave. At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We WILL remember them. LTS |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: smallpiper Date: 11 Nov 03 - 05:10 AM Respect. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Wolfgang Date: 11 Nov 03 - 05:06 AM Amos, Lament of the frontier guard is a poem I guess, not a song? I have learned it as a German song when I was young (with a to my ears very strange tune): Die Pferde lahmen längst doch wir marschieren das Gras ist gelb der erste Raureif fiel... Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Chip2447 Date: 11 Nov 03 - 12:40 AM My heartfelt thanks to all who wore the uniform; family and friends, those who served in war or in peace, those who served or are serving, those who came back and those who didn't. May we never lose another son, daughter, father, mother, sister, brother, husband, wife, friend or lover. Chip2447(from one vet to All the others} |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Amos Date: 11 Nov 03 - 12:19 AM Sorry, Kat -- see other thread. A |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: katlaughing Date: 10 Nov 03 - 11:52 PM Thanks, Amos, but my link worked fine for me. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Amos Date: 10 Nov 03 - 11:48 PM Translated from the Chinese by Ezra Pound, and offered with honor to those who lived it, by one who was not there: 8th century Lament of the Frontier Guard By the North Gate, the wind blows full of sand, Lonely from the beginning of time until now! Trees fall, the grass goes yellow with autumn. I climb the towers and towers to watch out the barbarous land: Desolate castle, the sky, the wide desert. There is no wall left to this village. Bones white with a thousand frosts, High heaps, covered with trees and grass; Who brought this to pass? Who has brought the flaming imperial anger? Who has brought the army with drums and with kettle-drums? Barbarous kings. A gracious spring, turned to blood-ravenous autumn, A turmoil of wars' men, spread over the middle kingdom, Three hundred and sixty thousand, And sorrow, sorrow like rain. Sorrow to go, and sorrow, sorrow returning. Desolate, desolate fields, And no children of warfare upon them, No longer the men for offence and defence. Ah, how shall you know the dreary sorrow at the North Gate, With Rihaku's name forgotten, And we guardsmen fed to the tigers. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Bobert Date: 10 Nov 03 - 11:29 PM Where have all the flowers gone... Long time passin'... Yeah, I graduated from Massanutten Military Academy in the height of thew Vietnam War and lots of my classmates went right into the Army and on to Vietnam. Eight of my class died. My cousin, Peter, came back without a leg. My 8th grade lab partner in junior high school, so messed up from killin' civilians that his life is a string of rehab programs.... And herer we are creatin' yet another generation of folks who will suffer from the effects of "depleted uranium" who won't get good treatment in their local VA hospitals... And we read that vets of this current war are holed up in camps without heat and not being treated for their ailments... So, yeah, tomorrow, I'll reflect on the friends I've lost but I'll also reflect on the "Masters of War" who have sent my brothers ans sisters to the killing fields, only to turn their backs on them once the shootin' time is done... Bobert |
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Subject: Lyr Add: 11:11 (Garnet Rogers) From: Clinton Hammond Date: 10 Nov 03 - 11:25 PM For Rememberance Day 11:11 Ah the glorious few are all the fewer here In the cold November air The crowd draws silent Their collars raised To the edges of the square The children's choir sings "In Flander's Fields" The band plays "Over There" The old heroes still try to dress the line As the chaplain reads the prayer For the glorious few no longer stand so straight As they did long years before When they faced a hard and cruel fate On a far and distant shore Their tunics faded green and blue Poor shelter from the cold The memories made yet raw and new At the calling of the roll The heads are bowed in silence now At the tolling of the hour The first few falling flakes of snow Drift gently on the flowers All piled and stacked against the stones Petals fluttering in the air The eyes that stare down through the years At the ones no longer there The taste of lost and wasted years So bitter on the tongue White breath in clouds in the autumn cold Frail chests with medals hung In battle ribbons red and gold In the pale November sun The hands and faces grown so old While the heart stays ever young For the glorious few are all the fewer here The old soldiers form the square The wind blows hard and shakes the leaves And stirs the thin white hair Of these fading brave and fragile souls As the bugler plays "Last Post" The snow falls thick and faster still And turns them white as ghosts |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Amos Date: 10 Nov 03 - 11:21 PM Katlaughing's Uncle Howard (link was relative & broke above). A |
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Subject: Lyr Add: GETHSEMANE (R Kipling) From: mg Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:57 PM Here is a song that sums it up...words by Kipling, tune is the verse part to Auld Lang Syne...words are probably not exact.. 1914-18 The Garden called Gethsemane In Picardy it was, And there the people came to see The English soldiers pass. We used to pass - we used to pass Or halt, as it might be, And ship our masks in case of gas Beyond Gethsemane. The Garden called Gethsemane, It held a pretty lass, But all the time she talked to me I prayed my cup might pass. The officer sat on the chair, The men lay on the grass, And all the time we halted there I prayed my cup might pass. It didn't pass - it didn't pass - It didn't pass from me. I drank it when we met the gas Beyond Gethsemane! |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Kim C Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:52 PM Here's to my dad, Mister's Uncle Paul, and my friends Howard, Steve, Chris, Randy, Kathy, and all of you who have served. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Dave Swan Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:50 PM My gratitude and respect to those who have served in the armed forces. D |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: freightdawg Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:45 PM Most of my uncles and several other friends have served my country in the armed services. I cherish the freedom they risked their lives for (and some lost their lives for) every day. They were not fighting for politicians. They were fighting to protect our freedom, for their wives and girlfriends and mothers and fathers. They fought so others could breathe the air of freedom. Thousands try to come to this country because of their sacrifice and devotion. Thank you for this thread. As "the greatest generation" goes to meet their reward, who will follow in their steps? I honor all who have served, who are serving, and who will serve their country. Ours is such a blessed land. May we never forget. Freightdawg. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Jerry Rasmussen Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:42 PM Let me raise my voice in praise, too. I've just been watching the Young Lions, and it reminds me that war is complex and the service men are often conflicted, themselves. I kinda skinned between wars... too young for the Korean War and too old for the Vietnam War. My Father was too young for the first World War, and too old for the Second. My oldest son served in the Air Force, but was never in combat, so it looks like another generation has been spared the internal conflict of armed conflict. But, I had a beloved cousin who was at Pearl Harbor when it was attacked, and pieces of shrapnel kept working their way to the surface in his body for many years, like stones in a New England field. His brother had both feet frozen, and suffered for the rest of his life, and another cousin lost her husband in the Navy in the second world war, with a new born baby at home. War is never declared by soldiers. Jerry |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: katlaughing Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:39 PM In memory of my Uncle Howard, I hope he has found some peace; and, for my Uncle Courtney and the rest of them who have served and are serving. Thanks, mary, you've got my support re' this thread. Blessed Be, kat |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Giac Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:38 PM What Sorcha said! My dad was in WWI, my brother in WWII. A beloved cousin, a bomber pilot, was shot down during WWII, and several cousins served in Korea. Won't be going out tomorrow, but I'll wear a poppy here at home and think of them all. |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Sorcha Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:22 PM Yes, I agree. I don't really agree with the politics of gov't or war, but I do indeed respect those who go forth and fight....thank you, mary garvey.... |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Amos Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:16 PM Wear them proudly, folks. That's how they were earned. I completely support Mary's request. A |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: mg Date: 10 Nov 03 - 10:09 PM Thanks. I think I will wear my River Rat t shirt and look for my poppy right now. mg |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: artbrooks Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:57 PM Good idea, Mary. Unfortunately, I have classes tomorrow, but I will be wearing my boonie hat, red poppy, and Womens Veterans Memorial t-shirt. Art |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: wysiwyg Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:46 PM Boy on a sub, still, us. ~S~ |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Tinker Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:45 PM Mary I was thiking of you today. In fact I sent a package to Mick, cause I know he can't get up on the 'cat right now. Last year seemed endless, I was afraid for awhile that you and/or Mick might just walk away from the 'cat, but well for the most part folks here learn from each other. I've learnt form you. ( and been surprised a time or two). Thanks for all you've done and still do... |
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Subject: RE: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: Peace Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:43 PM Dear Mary, You have my heartfelt agreement. Much of my own family has served in one or other of the armed forces (myself included as a reservist), and we owe it to our vets to express our respect and thanks. They have only gone where civilians sent them. Bruce |
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Subject: Request respectful Veterans Day Thread From: mg Date: 10 Nov 03 - 09:37 PM Tomorrow is Veterans Day. Some of us are veterans. Some are family members, friends, co-workers. I would request that one thread be reserved for respectful, non-abusive, non-political posts, and that people wishing to express other types of opinions start as many other threads as they desire. I would ask that if possible the list administrators move posts to other threads if necessary. Last year was pretty brutal here; I have been bracing myself for a repeat, but instead I will ask for one thread that is only for the purpose of expressing condolances, best wishes etc. Or it can be totally empty. People could express themselves otherwise to the hearts' content on other threads. It is a shame that the day that was set aside to honor veterans should be a day that I personally fear the most, because they know what buttons to push and they do and they still might and they would have if I had kept my trap shut. One day, one thread. It is not too much to ask. mg Note:Because of the presence of so many lyrics and poems, I believe this thread belongs in the music section of the Forum.-Joe Offer- Political discussion and debate moved toVeterans Day Politics on 12 Nov. This is a popular topic every year and folks who were honoring Mary Garvey's request, as well as other folks, now have a place to let loose. Thanks --JC |
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