Jig Time Technique for Guitar

Subject: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:47 PM

I've been(re)reading all the threads I could find on the subject of jigs. Most of them that involve technique are discussing mandolin.

My question: Is DUD UDU the usual stroke on guitar in backing up simple jigs?

I have never learned a proper jig beat and I'm self conscious about it. I can keep the beat, of course, but over time I've evolved to mostly just crosspicking emphasised notes. I want to learn to do it properly.

Can y'all he'p me? Keep in mind that I've been playing a long time and have picked up a lot of bad habits.

Thank you.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:08 PM

DUD UDU always worked for me but it can get a bit boring just doing that. Try skipping certain beats, depending on how the tune goes, or maybe just hitting the downbeat on the B part or else when the A part comes around again.

Best advice... take up the bodhran. It's easier for a guitar player to learn than it is for a drummer (I've tried to teach a few drummers how to do it, but they have real problems, unless they also play rhythm guitar). It will give you more of a feel for the jig rhythm when you learn it on bodhran. Then go back to the guitar and you'll be surprised how much it has helped.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Ebbie
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:19 PM

Thanks, Cluin. I just hauled out the bodhran and after trying it I don't think that's the answer for me. I'd get booted out of the band in jig time, I'm afraid. :)

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 07:28 PM

DUD UDU is how I play 'em. The trick is all in that emphasized upstroke on the 4 beat.   

One thing that I found helpful when I first started using the pattern was using a thin pick until the awkwardness wore off. I went back to the usual medium-heavy pick when the technique felt comfortable.

And I've yet to nail down playing jigs with fingerpicks - but it's not a real high priority either.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Amos
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:06 PM

USing fingerpicks I use the Spider Technique. (Just what it sounds like).

A

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:10 PM

Finger picking Jigs is just Thumb and one two three with the fingers
At least thats how I do it , on guitar OR banjo

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 08:13 PM

Actually the finger picks are the only way I go, though I only use two of the three in a jig. However the bodhran advice is excellent if you try it this way. Just use your thumb on the down stroke and your index on the up. After you have loosened your hand up, try varing the distance between the fingertips as you stroke up and down. Next use your finger picks on the guitar. Finally, once you have the rythmn down, try a contra puntal thumb/index running bass rythmn. Not only can you shift smoothly into a slip jig, by trying a pull-up across several strings with your index finger, within the beat, you can match any ornamentation going.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: MAG
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 01:38 AM

I was taught that DUD DUD was correct for jigs, but I am not up to speed on them so so far it doesn't matter. An Irish dup played my town last year and the guy was DUD UDU all the way and he sounded great. I don't get the finger picks when you are playing rhythm; my band leader just wants as much bass as possible (and my rock solid timing). Well, they haven't thrown me out of the band -- yet.

I'll try the bodhran thing but grokking jig time isn't really my problem; it's stiff arthritic slow fingers.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: mooman
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 04:03 AM

There is no particularly correct method IMHO. The alternatives listed are all acceptable. I often skip a beat as mentioned by Cluin, e.g. DD UDU, for variety and I think variation to suit the dynamics of the tune and even within a tune can work very well and help to avoid a "repetitive" sound.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: clueless don
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 09:44 AM

On bouzouki (but I think I would do the same on guitar), I sometimes use DUD DUD and sometimes DUD UDU. The trick, as I believe other posters have said, is to put the emphasis on the first strum of each triplet, regardless of whether it is an up or a down. I frequently leave out the second strum in a triplet, e.g. D-D DUD or D-U DUD or D-D D-D.

On the topic of playing the melody, as opposed to accompanying, I had a teacher who insisted that the picking MUST be done DUD DUD, not DUD UDU. But aside from the question of whether or not my teacher was right, I don't think the rules for accompaniment are the same as the rules for melody playing.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 12:57 PM

Thank you. I'm practicin'.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:01 PM

One thing to keep in mind is that in jigs, there is an even   beat underneath the melody, and that rather than playing the "jig feel" of the melody, the guitar can often just emphasize the downbeats, Or play bass notes on the downbeat, catching the chord with an upstroke on the after beat--

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: greg stephens
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:14 PM

I use a variey of stuff backing jigs(which I have done for a long time). but to get a basic beat I think you need to be fluent in DUD DUD or D-D DUD. DUD UDU generates great cross rhythms with minimal effort(and is of course easier to play fast!!!!), and also enables you to sound Mexican which is cheap but occasionally useful trick.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:19 PM

One good way to learn to play those emphasized upstrokes is to use them in other meters besides just 6/8 and 9/8. Throw some in when playing reels or accompanying songs. Bluegrass players who don't adhere to the rhythm-guitar-the-way-Bill-wanted-it-played school use 'em all the time and they don't play nuthin' in 6/8. Upstrokes just sound cool.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:51 PM

M.Ted, damn you, once again you have beaten me to it.

That is exactly what I was going to say, except you put it much more concisely than I would have.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:54 PM

...and that rather than playing the "jig feel" of the melody, the guitar can often just emphasize the downbeats, M. Ted, that is what I have been doing. Sounds OK but I really do want to learn the 1,2,3,1,2,3 swishy sound.

Bdubya, I use that technique when something, usually a rag, calls for it- to myself, I just call it a brushback. Florida Rag, for instance, just has to have it.

Thanks, guys. I'm learning a lot here.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 06:59 PM

Ebbie, I don't think it is possible to do what you want using a plectrum.

It can be done much more satisfactorily fingerstyle IMHO.

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: M.Ted
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 08:10 PM

I have been procrastinating today, Murray, so I invested way too much time in that post--

I listened to a number of different jigs by different people, and played along to figure out what was going on--and then wrote a long answer post, then my internet browser froze , and when I restarted it, I'd lost my post--then I tried to play The Carraroe Jig by the Corrs, I kept hearing what I thought was the intro to "I Don't Like Mondays" by the Boomtown Rats, and I thought something terrible had happened to my CD player program--then it turned out that there is a piano intro to The Carraroe Jig, so I wrote a brief precis of my original post--I also spent a lot of time adding up the ages of Methusalah, Lamech, and Noah from the book of Genesis, in order to figure out how old Noah was when the flood occurred-all in all, a busy day!

PS I agree that fingerstyle is much more satisfactory, though there are people around who insist on doing everything with a flat pick--

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Ebbie
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 10:01 PM

How do the Irish do it? Mick Moloney, for instance?

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: widowmaker
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 02:52 AM

I am wondering if this is John "leadfingers who used to come to the Queens on Thornton road and was responsible for giving me my biggest file on "folk music" on a disc as well as composing "Auntie Nellies Fur Coat" for my wife Kath?

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 03:52 AM

Greg, another way to sound Mexican is to speak Spanish. You have to have the right accent, of course.

Ebbie, I've been learning to back up Irish tunes on guitar for the past year or so. (My next big project is learning DADGAD tuning, which is a must if you're serious about Irish music.) One fun thing to try, as long as you don't do it too often, is to play just one measure as if it were 3/4 instead of 6/8: DU DU DU. This can sometimes work at the end of a phrase, or at the end of either the A or B part. Throw it in once or twice during a set of high-energy jigs and it gives a nice "driving" feel.

Have fun!

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: Willie-O
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:47 AM

Depends on who you are backing up. I've honest to god never thought of using an upstroke on the fourth beat of a jig. Unless both the guitarist and the tune players (fiddlers esp) are very skilled, it sounds like an invitation to a train wreck--please take note of the UNLESS.   Only thing I'm consistent about is down stroke on 1 and 4. Might be: (capitalization for emphasis

D - - D - -
D - d D u d

D u d D u d
etc...

but a lot of the time I look for a bass run I can bounce in there with...right hand action is key but that's not all of it.   

If you are playing with fiddlers who need a solid tempo to not lose the beat, I'd keep the right hand simple like that and find enough passing chords, or melodic bass runs, to make the guitar part just interesting enough.

Also, I only use a flatpick, can't think why fingerpicks, or fingerstyle without picks, would be needed.

Different strokes, as they say.


W-O

Subject: RE: Jig Time Technique for Guitar
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:51 AM

Mark Cohen succinctly analysed what I meant by sounding Mexican: using the DUDUDU lick emphasised as 3/4 against a 6/8 tune on the turn-round bar.