Songs about Incest

Subject: Lyr Add: JOHNNY BE FAIR
From: John P
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 08:06 AM

Here's a humorous song about the incest taboo. I don't know who wrote it or where it's from.
JP

Johnny Be Fair

Oh Johnny be fair
and Johnny be fine
he wants me for to wed.
And I would marry Johnny
but my father up and said.
"I'm sad to tell you daughter
what your mother never knew.
That Johnny to is a son of mine
and so he's kin to you."

Oh Billy be fair
and Billy be fine. . .

Oh Jimmy be fair
and Jimmy be fine. . .

Well you never seen
a girl so sad and sorry as I was.
The boys in town are all my kin and
my father is the cause.
If life should thus continue
I shall die a single miss
so I go to my mother
and complain to her of this.

Oh daughter didn't I
teach you to forgive and to forget.
Your father might have
sowed his oats but
still you needn't fret.
Your father may be
father to all the boys
in town but still....
He's not the one who sired you
so marry who you will.

---

"Johnny Be Fair" was written by Buffy Sainte-Marie. She told us she wrote the song to to tell the story of a joke she heard. More at https://mudcat.org/@displaysong.cfm?SongID=3266 and the threads you'll find crosslinked there.
-Joe Offer, Mudcat Music Editor-

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,Pavane
Date: 28 Nov 03 - 05:10 AM

I understand that Two Brothers/Edward is thought to be about it but not explicitly

("All about a little holly bush that might have made a tree" in at least one version)

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: ced2
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 11:28 AM

Local archives in Norfolk may be worth a search!

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: fogie
Date: 27 Nov 03 - 05:07 AM

I've got a feeling about the poems of A.E. Housemans A Shropshire lad that some are concealing a darker level. Take Farewell to barn and stack and tree, Farewell to Severn shore, It has a line "By now the blood is dried, and Maurice mongst the hay lies still and my knife is in his side" this Cruel brother type poem has an eerie afterfeel. Check it out.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 06:16 PM

"Sail Away, Ladies" is sometimes sung with a verse:

I chew my 'backer and I spit my juice
Sail away, ladies, sail away
I love my own daughter but it ain't no use
Sail away, ladies, sail away....

(The verse is not in the DT version)

Bruce

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 05:37 PM

Q: Why did the hillbilly refuse to marry a virgin?

A: "If she ain't good enough for her kinfolk, she ain't good enough for me!"

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: swampy-the-spark
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 05:29 PM

call it incest but I WAN'T MY MUMMY !!!!

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 26 Nov 03 - 04:40 AM

incest, a game for all the family

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 12:01 PM

There is the chilling Scots ballad "Childe Owlett" where the nephew of Lord Erskine is propositioned by Lady Erskine. He spurns her advances and suffers dire consequences. Not quite incest but almost.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,smithp
Date: 25 Nov 03 - 09:41 AM

I just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my inquiry about songs with an incestual motif. You have all been very helpful. Thank you greatly.

Per Smith

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: jaze
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 10:13 AM

Cherokee Louise by Joni Mitchell

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Snuffy
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 07:55 AM

For there is no trust in man
Not my own own brother
So girls, if you would love
Love one each other

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,Diva
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 06:58 AM

Acoording to Atkinson's "Traditional English Ballad" the incest motif runs through Twa Brithers and Son David.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 22 Nov 03 - 12:08 AM

There is no demonstrable incest motif in Yarrow, though some people seem to have misunderstood the ambiguous wording of one version in particular (I forget which, but it's been discussed here, speculation and all, in the past) and read into it a meaning which really is not there. I doubt very much if there is any incestuous sub-text in The Cruel Brother, either; but that won't stop people imagining one, and of course I can't prove that there isn't, though there is no evidence that I'm aware of to suggest that there is.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 10:24 PM

And there's "The Dowie Dens of Yarrow" in the DT (0.7742) -- very similar plot to "Cruel Brother", but possibly too subtle for what you want -- as the incest (again) has to be deduced.

Cheers,

YY

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 09:16 PM

Child #11, I believe it is, The Cruel Brother, has a variant I've heard, which may be described as follows:

The story line, grossly compressed, is that a suitor is told by his wished-for bride to ask this and that and the other relative for permission to marry her, "and do not forget my brother John".

Wouldn't you know, he asks everybody but Bubba John.

They are married, and are mounting horses to leave when her brother John, under pretense of giving her a last hug or kiss, stabs her.

She asks to be taken (or goes by herself?) to a hilltop. The traditional questions are asked about, "What will you leave to....", and she says to give her mother "the dress that I die in". and also
to "Tell her to wash it in yonder stream. My heart's blood flows in every seam." (POWERFUL!)

To brother John she leaves something like the hangman's rope.

"What will you leave to your brother's wife? My curse and grief for all her life."

I get the overtone from this ballad that her brother has been her lover, that it's about incest in the background. He didn't stab her just because somebody didn't do the courteous thing and ask him.


Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:41 PM

Me too! That song made my skin crawl.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: ddw
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:38 PM

The country father-daughter duo of Royce and Jeannie Kendall used to sing a song called "Heaven's Just A Sin Away" which always made me wonder.....

cheers,

david

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:30 AM

a bit more digging and I see that "Fair Rosie Ann" is a version of "KINGS DAUGHTER LADY JEAN" or "KING'S DAUGHTER JANE" listed above. The lyrics are very similar to those used on the SCOTS WOMEN cd.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Beer
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:23 AM

Iris DeMent has a great song titled " Letter to Mom" not really incest, but close.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:23 AM

sorry, the song is called, "Fair Rosie Ann." You can read more about the album here. I have to say it is a moving and beautiful song. It haunted me for days the first time I heard it.

The album is also truly remarkable. If I only had one album to take with me to a deserted isle, this would be it.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: wysiwyg
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:21 AM

So, what do you need these for? Maybe that would help us think about song suggestions more accurately.

~S~

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: JedMarum
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:07 AM

Brian McNeill produced a wonderful collection of songs in a 2 CDs set called simply, SCOTS WOMEN. On it there is a stunning song called Dear RoseyAnne which details an incestuous relationship.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 06:25 AM

Got it! Its "The Orphan's Wedding" and its in the DT.

Regards

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 06:24 AM

The Stranger Who told me my name?

Regards

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: MartinRyan
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:55 AM

What was the modern one about a separated pair of war orphans who end up marrying - and then get a visit from the Man from the Ministry? The tune is running around in my head - but no words, despite it being a powerful song.

Regards

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: greg stephens
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:51 AM

"A boy's best friend is his mother"

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Susan of DT
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:21 AM

You already have the traditional ones in Child. Sieffe - that is Henry II with Fair Rosamund Clifford and her brother did not necessarily sleep with her - just brag about how beautiful she was in the king's hearing.

What about newer funny ones like "I'm my own Grandpa" and "Shame and Scandal" and its relatives?

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 05:08 AM

That's a pity - I was going to suggest Tom Lehrer's "Oedipus Rex".

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,smithp
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 01:22 AM

I'm only looking for "traditional" songs in the sense that they would come from the folk tradition ... at least to some extent. but they don't have to be traditional ballads, or to be referenced in some index like Child's or Laws'. However, songs written within the last 30 years by commercial artists who are performing (and copywriting) those songs are not exactly what I am looking for (if that answers anything).   Thanks for all the help so far and I'm looking forward to hearing from more of you!

Per

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 01:06 AM

Contemporary American -
Peter Alsop's "Look At T e Ceiling" from his "Uniforms" album

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: PapaWhiskey
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:51 AM

Buffy Sainte Marie did a song named "The Incest Song" back in the sixties which springs to mind.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:43 AM

All songs so far are traditional...is that the only kind you are looking for? Contemporary singer-songwriters have dealt with this subject also, i.e. Suzanne Vega's Bad Wisdom.

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: GUEST,Sieffe
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 12:06 AM

The song sung by Hedy West in America (and by my self in New Zealand!)called "Fair Rosamund" is an incestual reference, albeit unwanted by Rosamund . . . .she curses her brother Clifford for it . . she was a concubine of King Henry the ? . . . .never did find out which bastard king of England that was . . . .

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 11:48 PM

Hi - the DT Keywords search in our dropdown QuickLinks menu will take you to the nine we have listed in the "incest" category in the Digital Tradition, but I'm sure we have more. Here's the list:

• BONNY HIND
• BROWN ROBYN'S CONFESSION
• KING'S DAUGHTER JANE
• LADY JEAN
• LIZZIE WAN
• SHEATH AND KNIFE
• SHEATH AND KNIFE 2
• THE ORPHANS' WEDDING
• THE WELL BELOW THE VALLEY

Also make a search for incest at the Traditional Ballad Index. You'll come up with this list:

1. Stella Kenney [Laws F37]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/LF37.html
2. Sheath and Knife [Child 16]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C016.html
3. My Husband's a Mason
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/EM055.html
4. Maria Bewell
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/E120.html
5. Lizie Wan [Child 51]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C051.html
6. King's Dochter Lady Jean, The [Child 52]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C052.html
7. Brown Robyn's Confession [Child 57]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C057.html
8. Bonnie Hind, The [Child 50]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C050.html
9. Babylon, or, The Bonnie Banks o Fordie [Child 14]
   http://www.csufresno.edu/folklore/ballads/C014.html

I think we have at least one version of all these songs.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Songs about INCEST.
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 11:47 PM

Lucy/Lizzie Wan

Subject: Songs about INCEST.
From:
Date: 20 Nov 03 - 11:21 PM

I'm looking for songs that deal with the taboo of incestual relations. I have managed to find a few like "Sheath and Knife", "Brown Robyn's Confession", and "The Orphans Wedding"--most of them are from Child. Does anyone have any other suggestions? Any songs or song versions distincly from the States? Any songs relating to familial relations of an incestual sort that are not explicitly treated as taboo? Thanks for any help.

Per