Obit: My Wife

Subject: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:15 PM

My wife Passed away four days ago

The coroners report was inconclusive

We may never know what happened

She was only 36 years old

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Menolly
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:21 PM

You have my deepest sympathies. I lost my husband 22 months ago but it was expected, just not quite so soon.
Gillian

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Tinker
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:25 PM

I read your post and found myself lost in thoughts and prayers....Blessings

Kathy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: jimmyt
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:25 PM

So very sorry Raptor. You will be in my thoughts and prayers

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:28 PM

My heart goes out to you. I have can only guess at your sorrow, but I'm certain that it goes very deep.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Pseudolus
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:30 PM

I am so sorry to hear your news. You're in my prayers.....

Frank

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Robin2
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:31 PM

Oh Rapter, I'm so sorry. I cried for you today. You are in my thoughts and prayers

Robin2

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: momnopp
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:32 PM

David

I'm so sorry. Peace be with you and yours.

Hugs,

JudyO

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Padre
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM

May her soul rest in peace. And may you be comforted by the love and prayers of friends.

Padre

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Amos
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:34 PM

Raptor:

Oh, no.

I am stunned. How unfair!

Please take care of yourself, keep looking outward, take care to breathe and push ahead.

My thoughts are with you.


A

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: khandu
Date: 02 Dec 03 - 10:57 PM

my heart is broken for you, my Friend
I know how deep the loss is
My prayers and my tears are given on your behalf
If you need someone to talk to, cry with or even yell at, I am here
Ken

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:42 PM

Life can be so unfair. I am sorry. Take one day at a time and know that you have friends to help you through this.I will keep you in my prayers. Mary

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:46 PM

Sending you hugs across the cosmos.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:51 PM

Deepest sympathy, thoughts, and prayers.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:51 PM

There are times when we all feel so helpless. It's then when we realize that in the long run, prayer, friendship and love are all that hold us together. My wife and I send all three.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:53 PM

Drag David....

All the best eh... as best as it can be right now anyway....

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeanie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:55 PM

So sorry to hear this. Thinking of you and sending love,
- jeanie

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 01:55 PM

Oh, David......stay well yourself. Do whatever you need to do for yourself.....I can't say how truly sorry I am.....hugs from Sorkie.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:12 PM

My deepest sympathy.

Chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:16 PM

Will you tell us something about her?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Barb'ry
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:17 PM

I'm so, so sorry. Thinking of you
Barb'ry

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: black walnut
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:22 PM

So very sorry.
~b.w.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: alanabit
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

Very sorry to hear it. I won't be the only one here wishing you better days.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Ebbie
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

My deepest sympathy, David. Many, many thoughts and prayers are with you.
Eb
Elva

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: mg
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:27 PM

I am so sorry to hear of this..May she rest in peace. mg

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:28 PM

Sorry.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM

You have my deepest sympathy, David.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:40 PM

No words for this except we are so sorry.

Art and Carol Thieme

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: smallpiper
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 02:43 PM

May she rest in peace, and you look after yourself
Blessings
John

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Mickey191
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:03 PM

My heartfelt sympathies on your loss. May she rest in God's care.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:10 PM

I am so, so sorry....much love and sympathy {{{hugs}}}

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:15 PM

Very very sorry to hear of your loss. Thoughts and prayers are with you.

sian

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:32 PM

David, my deepest sympathy and prayers of comfort. I see you have posted in Animaterra's "Bereavement" thread... I hope some of the thoughts people have shared there will be some help to you-- I know, nothing really can help, but you will find you have a lot of company here in your loss and shock.

All the best,

~Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: pixieofdoom
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:39 PM

I'm really sorry to hear that Raptor ((hugs))

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Carly
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:42 PM

Oh, David. You have my deepest sympathies. I lost my first husband when I was 33, and there are still unanswered questions 18 years later. Do what you can to take care of yourself, and do not feel hesitant about accepting help from your friends. When you are ready, please tell us about her.

Carly

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: M.Ted
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 03:49 PM

I am very, very, sorry, and you have all my best wishes and prayers.

We'd like to know more, and if or when you are comfortable, please feel free to say whatever you need to say. If you need help with anything, just ask, and we'll find some way to get you what you need.   May this be the last of your sorrows.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Willie-O
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:10 PM

Deepest sorrows. I really can't imagine...

Bill

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CapriUni
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:14 PM

Stunned. Sending you love.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: kendall
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:22 PM

There are few things worse than losing a loved one. You have my deepest sympathy.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: C-flat
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:23 PM

Having never lost anyone close to me at such a young age I can only echo Willie-O in saying I can't imagine what you're feeling just now.
All any of us can do is offer messages of support and sympathy.
You have mine.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeep man
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:34 PM

The death of one takes a little from the rest of us. Deepest sympathy. Jim Ford

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Bobert
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 04:42 PM

Raptor,

I am so sorry, my friend. Having lost my wife, Judy, 5 years ago this past Oct. 2nd, I know just the sorrow and emptiness you are feeling.

I hope you will find a point when you are feeling comfortable enough to share a couple of good stories so that we may also be part of cellebrating your wife's life...

Until then, you and your family are in my heart and prayers...

God be with with you as I'm sure He is with her..

Bobert

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Hollowfox
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 05:02 PM

I cannot find any new words to add to those above; I add my thoughts, prayers, and sympathy . Love, Mary H.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 05:18 PM

I hope that the wishes and thoughts of caring friends, both here and around you daily, will sustain you as you get through these hard days of coping. Keep the good memories of her in your thoughts.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 05:55 PM

So sorry to hear of your loss
{{{Hugs}}}

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: alison
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:03 PM

so very sorry to hear this...

love, hugs, and prayers from me too

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Phot
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:18 PM

My depest condoences and prayers.

Chris

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Peace
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:23 PM

Raptor; Please accept my deepest sympathy. Are you holding up OK?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:28 PM

brucie, I saw Raptor at the visitation today, he's doing as well as can be expected under the circumstances. Got lots of family and musical friends around to support him, so that's good.

Dave, you know you and Heidi continue to receive the very best of my "prayerful" efforts and intentions. I meant what I told you yesterday -- please don't hesitate to call me, anytime, night or day, if ever you need or want to, my friend.

Love, Michelle

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:42 PM

I don't think I can add any more words but if thoughts help at all you can add mine.

Peace

dave

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:57 PM

David,
My arms are reaching out to you in an enveloping embrace. My friend, you know that I've been through something close to this. No one's story is exactly the same, and no one's grief is the same, but there are many similarities. I am here if you need me.
I'm glad you've reached out to these folks. They will be here for you, too. In many cultures, sitting in vigil with the bereaved is a way to honor the dead and honor the grief. We are here for you, candles burning. Say what you need to, and especially, tell us about your wife. We want to know her, too.
All my love,
Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 06:59 PM

I attended the visitation today, along with Daylia and a number of other close friends of David's (Raptor's). He's a strong and good man. I believe he will weather this storm okay. Some of us are going to be right there to help him do that too. I saw a lot of affection today, and a lot of the goodness in people, although they may not know just what to say at such a time.

Well, words may never be enough, but the heart knows what it knows, regardless. And in our hearts we are right there, with strength greater than we know to carry us through. Blessed be.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Burke
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:04 PM

So sorry. Treasure the good memories.

{{{{{{{{{HUG}}}}}}}}}

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Dave Swan
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:08 PM

Deepest condolences. A song goes out to her.

D&P

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:15 PM

David,
I'm so glad you're surrounded by good friends. Lean on them, hard.

And friends, remember to call him often- even weeks from now. Especially weeks from now! Make note of the date of her death, call him every month on that date. Let him know he's loved. Invite him to supper. Tell him your memories of his wife, however trivial they may seem to you, they will be precious to him. Dig out every photo that might have a glimpse of her. David will need you for the long haul.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: bbc
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:28 PM

I'm glad you started this thread. Thanks for letting us have a small part in caring for you.

bbc

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Peg
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:34 PM

oh, how awful not to know what caused it. And so young. I can't imagine your pain now. I hope you can find comfort in knowing this small community is thinking of you and grieving with you, and will be there for any solace you need us for.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Alice
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 07:49 PM

David, I am so sorry. What a tragedy for you and your family. My sympathy to you and yours in your grief and loss.

Alice

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:17 PM

My sincere condolences and sympathy.

Seamus Kennedy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: open mike
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:44 PM

such a shock.
I am sending hugs and
wishes for strength
to help you in your
grief and in your
life to come. take
a deep breath.
Laurel

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 08:50 PM

My heartfelt sympathy to you David. Take care of yourself and remember the good times you shared together, it will help you get through the bad.
Love, Sue

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM

Sorry to hear this, my thoughts are with you.Take care.

John

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: open mike
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 09:58 PM

can not find where little hawk, daylia or raptor are?
please let us know. I would like to know which direction
to send energy!!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: maire-aine
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 10:06 PM

I am so very sorry.

Maryanne

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 03 Dec 03 - 11:03 PM

I'm so sorry to hear this, David

Ernie

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:29 AM

Open Mike - We are located near the Barrie-Orillia area, south-central Ontario, Canada...due north of Toronto about 85 miles.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: DonMeixner
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 12:37 AM

David,

My deepest sympathies to you.

Don

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Mudlark
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:42 AM

David...Words fail in the face of a loss such as this, but my heart and my thoughts go out to you.   Nancy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: open mike
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 01:49 AM

sending hugs, casseroles, banana bread,
songs, and more hugs, in a north easterly direction.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:09 AM

Please accept my condolences. I'm so sorry for your loss.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:41 AM

Deepest sympathies, too, from me.

RtS

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:45 AM

Sorry to hear this. Best wishes from Wales, take care

Ella

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: HuwG
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 03:58 AM

Commiserations and sympathies.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: JennieG
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 04:35 AM

Very sad news...so sorry.
Hugs
JennieG

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: gnu
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 05:09 AM

Thoughts and prayers.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 05:25 AM

Condolences. Really sorry to hear this aweful news.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Partridge
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 05:51 AM

I'm so sorry

Pat xx

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: jacqui.c
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 06:23 AM

Love and good thoughts. Please, when you are ready, tell us something about your wife.

Jacqui xxxx

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: InOBU
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 07:33 AM

David:
I know that that is an unemaginable loss and pain. I can only offer that as that pain changes over time, you will know that you are always part her.
Holding you in the light
Larry

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Alba
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 10:32 AM

My deepest Sympathy David. How terribly Sad. Words fail me!
You are in my Thoughts.

Jude

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 11:11 AM

So sorry, Raptor. You're in our thoughts too.

Steve & Sue

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Donuel
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 04:14 PM

So sorry,
Don

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Tig
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 07:05 PM

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Raptor}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

My thoughts are with you.

Love and hugs,
Tig xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lyrical Lady
Date: 04 Dec 03 - 09:58 PM

My thoughts are with you at this difficult time.
Barb

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Edain
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 02:25 AM

I know theres nothing I can say that'll make everything alright again but my thoughts are with you. I can't even imagine what you're going through.

Edain

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GMT
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 03:39 AM

So very sorry.

Gary

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Escamillo
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 03:44 AM

In the first anniversary of my dear wife's passing, I can only send you a hug and the assurance that you will find at Mudcat the strength and the contention that you need. My thoughts are with you.

Un abrazo
Andrés (in Buenos Aires)

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 04:16 AM

Don't look for logic; don't look for an explanation. Look for the happy memories and lock them. THEY were the reason you met and loved.
She is not gone - just not with you physically.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 07:04 AM

I am so sorry Raptor. Like many of the others here, I cannot find the words to express what I feel for you at this time. You have my very best thoughts though.......Please take care of yourself David. Karen and I both send you our best thoughts and deepest sympathy.

Pat

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: My guru always said
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 08:23 AM

{{{So Sorry David...}}}
So glad that you are surrounded by good people.
I wish you all the good memories,
Hil

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:08 AM

David:

I am VERY sorry to hear of your loss.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:20 AM

I'm glad you've reached out to these folks. They will be here for you, too. In many cultures, sitting in vigil with the bereaved is a way to honor the dead and honor the grief. We are here for you, candles burning. Say what you need to, and especially, tell us about your wife. We want to know her, too

----

Aloha nui loa Alison; my sister.

Forgive me Alison;

David should share storyies when he is ready and NOT before. Right now David neend to go throu the grieving phase, and his wife needs healing on the other side. If he is forced to discuss his wife before he is ready; her soul will know of his grief and she will come back to be with him instead of getting the help she needs.

Right now both of them are doing what is best; so please leave it at that until he is ready to talk about this.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:23 AM

Hello Little Hawk; my brother. It was a pleasure meeting you last month in Atlanta.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:29 AM

And friends, remember to call him often- even weeks from now. Especially weeks from now! Make note of the date of her death, call him every month on that date. Let him know he's loved. Invite him to supper. Tell him your memories of his wife, however trivial they may seem to you, they will be precious to him. Dig out every photo that might have a glimpse of her. David will need you for the long haul.
----

Forive me again Allison.

You are right and wrong at the same time.

You are correct that David's friends should lend their support and contact him often.

I would NOT recommend calling David on the monthly aniversary of Heidi's passing. That day would be a good day to take David out to eat, or go out to a movie to lift his mood.

Calling on the monthly aniversary of her death would lower his mood instead of elevate it.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:42 AM

David should share stories when he is ready and NOT before. Right now David needs to go through the grieving phase, and his wife needs healing on the other side. If he is forced to discuss his wife before he is ready; her soul will know of his grief and she will come back to be with him instead of getting the help she needs.

Aloha nui loa, Two Bears;   

I'm so glad you've decided to post here. It's very difficult to know how to deal with tragic situations like David's in a healthy way. Especially in Western culture, where passing on is still such a misunderstood, feared and taboo subject for most people.

Thank you for your insights. I'm taking them into contemplation as I work out the best ways of "being there" for my friend. It's been a real pleasure to have your wise and caring influence in my life over the last few months, to have met you in Atlanta with Little Hawk, to have discovered, through you, the miraculous spiritual technology of ancient Hawaii called HUNA. Holy HUNA!   :-)

Mahalo nui loa,

daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:59 AM

Hi, Two Bears. Nice to hear from you on Mudcat Cafe. You know, you could easily join this forum under the name "Mato Nupai"...just click on the link that says "Membership Has Its Rewards" at the top of the screen, and follow the instructions. All you have to do is pick a membername and a secret code to log in with. As a regular Mudcat member, you will have a whole brand new way of frivolously consuming vast amounts of your valuable time each day, like the rest of us! :-)

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: vindelis
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 04:11 PM

Who ever said 'God always takes the rose before the thorn' certainly knew what they were talking about. Peace be with you. It could be a long tunnel, but there will be light at the end.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 04:23 PM

I'm so sorry David.

Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 05:11 PM

Little Hawk, to have discovered, through you, the miraculous spiritual technology of ancient Hawaii called HUNA. Holy HUNA!   :-)
----

Aloha nui loa Daylia; my sister.

I was very pleased to meet you and LH in Atlanta.

The Hawaiians did not have a name for their system. Huna was the name given to this spiritual technology by Max Freedom Long.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 05:13 PM

Hi, Two Bears. Nice to hear from you on Mudcat Cafe. You know, you could easily join this forum under the name "Mato Nupai"...just click on the link that says "Membership Has Its Rewards" at the top of the screen, and follow the instructions. All you have to do is pick a membername and a secret code to log in with. As a regular Mudcat member, you will have a whole brand new way of frivolously consuming vast amounts of your valuable time each day, like the rest of us! :-)
-----

Aloha nui loa Little Hawk; my brother.

I appreciate the invitationl but we will see how things goes for a while. OK?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 05:22 PM

The condolences offered here are heartfelt and each stands on its own merit. They will be weighed by the party to whom they are offered. I don't think we need annotations and corrections on those empirical statements. There's no one right way to grieve.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 05:55 PM

Sorry for your trouble. I hope perhaps somehow it helps a little having us say that.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 08:00 PM

The condolences offered here are heartfelt and each stands on its
own merit.

Aloha nui loa Stilly.

I don't recall saying or implying that condolences offered to David were not heartfelt or sincere.

I don't think we need annotations and corrections on those
empirical statements. There's no one right way to grieve.

I will agree with you on one fact "There is no one right way to grieve"

However; I will say there are bad ways to grieve, and better ways to grieve.

David is going through the assorted levels of grief in a good way. I know that some opinions were well intentioned; but those methods would depress David's mood instead of lifting his mood.

If David gets stuck and is not progressing through the levels or grief; then those techniques would be a good way to force him to move forward.

This is a recent traumatic event. I ask that you allow David the chance to progress through grief in an orderly manner instead of thinking he has to progress through grief on your timetable.

Heidi is getting the help she needs on the other side, and David has several friends around him to help any way they can.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:03 PM

Two Bears, one reads into the remarks a level of correction on your part that seems inappropriate. Pardon me, but the term "levels of grief" is so very clinical, and not really how it feels when you lose a loved one.

I ask you to give his Mudcat commmunity the opportunity to express their sorrow and to ask him for his stories about his wife without your approval. It's not required.

It has been my experience that stories are what we are all made of, and stories are how we teach and share. And when Raptor is ready, I would like to hear his stories about his wife. The laughter of love that comes when one shares a story about the recently departed is as pure as the laughter of a small child.

SRS

Funny, I would have sworn there were no bears in Hawaii.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Dec 03 - 10:31 PM

Two Bears isn't in Hawaii, Stilly. He's in Tennessee. As for the bear spirit, it is an archetype that is everywhere, although it may be stronger in some places than in others (maybe...). Two Bears works in many traditions, and they all support each other quite well.

It is good that everyone express their own understanding in their own way, and their own opinion. Differences of opinion are inevitable in any large group of people, but this does not mean that something bad has happened. It is an opportunity, not an attack on anyone.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:56 AM

-----
Two Bears, one reads into the remarks a level of correction on your part that seems inappropriate. Pardon me, but the term "levels of grief" is so very clinical, and not really how it feels when you lose a loved one.
-----

Aloha nui loa Stilly.

Well excuse me; but there are different levels of grief.

First there is numbness (the stage David in in now)
Then there is anger or rage (in some people)
Then there is grief
then there is acceptance, and the ability to move on with their life.

-----
I ask you to give his Mudcat commmunity the opportunity to express their sorrow and to ask him for his stories about his wife without your approval. It's not required.
-----

It is perfectly appropriate for David to tell some of his stories with Heidi; but now is not the time. In another week or two would be perfectly fine; but right now give him some time and space to deal with his emotions.

-----
It has been my experience that stories are what we are all made of, and stories are how we teach and share. And when Raptor is ready, I would like to hear his stories about his wife. The laughter of love
-----

I agree; but David should share when HE is ready. David is not on your my, or anyone else at mudcat schedules.

Please be patient amd allow David to do the inner work on himself and deal with the emotions.

-----
Funny, I would have sworn there were no bears in Hawaii.
-----

That is fair.

The Bear is my totem animal (spirit helper). I have been two completely different people in my life so the name Two Bears is appropriate.

I use Aloha nui loa in my greetings because I have done an intensive study into Hawai'ian mysticism, and I love what aloha nui loa means (I love you very much)

I live in Tennessee East of Nashville in an apartment. I can not build an inipi lodge, or a yuwipi lodge on the apartment complex gwounds for healing ceremonies; so Hawai'ian mysticism (some people call it Huna) allows me to do healings most effectively.

Also I have received the title "master" eight times.

Karuna Reiki (master/teacher
Magnussa Phoenix Reiki (grandmaster)
Seichim (master)
Seventh Facet Seichim (master)
Tibetan Reiki (master/teacher)
Usui Shiki Reiki (master/teacher)
Usui Shiki Ryoho Reiki (master/teacher)
Zhan Zhuang Qigong (master)

I also studied Actualism, Crystal healing, Kiatsu, MAP, HUNA and others.

Any more questions Stilly?

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:58 AM

Two Bears isn't in Hawaii, Stilly. He's in Tennessee. As for the bear spirit, it is an archetype that is everywhere, although it may be stronger in some places than in others (maybe...). Two Bears works in many traditions, and they all support each other quite well.

It is good that everyone express their own understanding in their own way, and their own opinion. Differences of opinion are inevitable in any large group of people, but this does not mean that something bad has happened. It is an opportunity, not an attack on anyone.
-----

Aloha nui loa Little Hawk; my brother.

I appreciate the kind words very much.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:53 AM

I appriciate ALL sugestions and condolences from all of you

I feel a certin strength from the fact that so many people have taken time to bother with me here in my time of weakness!
Considering that up till now most of my posts have been Sarcastic and pointless such as swearing on cakes or recreational supositories! I never realized that so many of you are the kind of people that are there for anyone! Thank you all SO MUCH!

David

I will tell you stories about heide soon she was a great person and a loving wife!

I still feel like the luckiest guy to have known her!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM

I thought this thread was offering condolences to Raptor - I can't see how he's going to benefit from reading the above debate - shouldn't a new thread have been started?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 10:08 AM

Reading or posting about recreational suppositories (oh, HOW did I miss that one?!) is just skimming the surface layer. There's never a need to go to the deeper layers, but they've always been here.

"Say what you need to," is what Allison/Animaterra first said. We'll be here to listen.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:24 PM

All I know is, I needed stories about Byron from the very first day after his death. I still need them. And I also know from experience, that the "stages" of grief spiral around and twist and turn in a very non-linear path for me. I am not through with one, then move on to the next. I often still feel a combination of numbness, grief, anger, sorrow, even acceptance. Let's not forget denial!
And I won't be told how to grieve by anyone, no matter how qualified.
I will keep coming to this thread, and to the Mudcat, for the wealth of love and support from the members here.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:26 PM

Sorry, I thought I was on the Bereavement thread! This thread's really for David. I'll keep checking here, too, David, because this community is what it's all about.
Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Desdemona
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:33 PM

Please accept my sympathy for your sudden & shocking loss.

D.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From:
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 04:13 PM

Sorry I haven't been on, earlier. We are very sorry to hear such sad news and send you thoughts of care, sympathy, and energy.

Kat & Rog

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Stilly River Sage
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 05:21 PM

GUEST 9:59am, you are correct. But gentle nudges don't seem to work with GUEST,Mato Nupai. For someone so versed on the levels within grief, he doesn't seem to read between the lines. Whatever his understanding of the process, it's preaching to the choir to lecture the rest of us. (Please don't cut and paste and send any more remarks to what I've said. Thank you.)

Raptor, I'm glad to see that past history with silly or sarcastic postings didn't keep you from turning to Mudcat as one outlet for your grief. Did she ever chuckle while reading over your shoulder when you were posting some of these remarks?

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: RichM
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 05:32 PM

Bless you, and your wife.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 06:08 PM

David , We havent ever talked in any of the threads but I just had to add my sorrow for your loss . It is an inpossable story and I am so sorry you are haveing this on your plate. One day at a time seems to have many uses. Keep breathing and walking and getting up in the morning. Im so sorry , Guy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 11:42 PM

GUEST 9:59am, you are correct. But gentle nudges don't seem to work with GUEST,Mato Nupai. For someone so versed on the levels within grief, he doesn't seem to read between the lines. Whatever his understanding of the process, it's preaching to the choir to lecture the rest of us.
-----

Aloha nui loa Stilly

Now where did I hide that ministers license? ;-)

Seriously though; I'm sorry you felt as if I was preaching at you. All I want is for well meaning people to give David a little space until he is ready to talk about Heide.

-----
(Please don't cut and paste and send any more remarks to what I've said. Thank you.)
-----

WEll; this is the first time I have been ask not to quote text (an attempt to be polite and remind people what I am talking about), and you are the first one to get upset for me telling you "I love you very much" with my aloha nui loa greeting.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Mato Nupai
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:03 AM

> All I know is, I needed stories about Byron from the very first day
> after his death. I still need them.

Aloha nui loa Allison; my sister.

Of course you needed to hear stories about Byron. You wanted to know how he affected the lives of other people.

If Daylia or Little Hawk wants to share stories of Heide; that would be great; but David should not allow well meaning individuals to push him in directions he is not prepared to go now.

> And I also know from experience, that the "stages" of grief spiral
> around and twist and turn in a very non-linear path for me. I am
> not through with one, then move on to the next. I often still feel
> a combination of numbness, grief, anger, sorrow, even acceptance.
> Let's not forget denial!

Grief can do many things to a person.

You are correct that denial is a state in the grieving process.

> And I won't be told how to grieve by anyone, no matter how
> qualified.

Nor should you. AS I discussed with Stilly River Sage. There is not one right way to grieve. There are bad ways, and there are better ways to grieve, but each person will grieve in the way that is right for them.

I only hope people will give David some space until he is ready to share stories.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:47 AM

Let's stop debating anyone's posts and just let this thread be what it will be. People are free to take wht is useful and leave the rest. Even when what may be needful doesn't appear to have been heard, it is heard and saved for the time when it is useful. Relax. Everyone here is learning and growing in wisdom-- even if we don't always show that. :~) This thread is either a place for debate or for condolence.... and it won't work to try to make it serve both pursuits.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: sledge
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:27 AM

All that can be said has already been said by those much more eloquent than myself, but I am very sorry to hear of your loss, stay strong.

Stuart

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: rock chick
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:41 PM

My deepest eepest sympathy is with you. We wonder why it happens to our loved ones, no matter how much searching you do there is no anwser, i went through a loss when in my twenties, my first husband, all you can do is know that you have friends, ones thats are willing to be there with you, thinking and praying for you to have strength. Lean on those friends for they have strong shoulders.

God rest her sole.

Shelagh

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: DougR
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 02:51 PM

Very sorry Raptor.

DougR

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: ard mhacha
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 03:27 PM

Deepest sympathy, Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:59 PM

After several people asked that I set up an account on MudCat; well here I am. I will no longer use the guest,Mato Nupai for the account.

Two Bears

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Bassic
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:55 PM

You and your loved ones are in my thoughts. I celebrate with you, your joy in her life and add my small contribution to the embracing arms of the Mudcat "family".

Peace,

G

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: sed
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

It's wonderful and inspiring that many mudcat folk have responded so lovingly.

Steve Sedberry

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Hawker
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 06:50 PM

David, So sorry, Kindest thoughts, Lots of love and prayers
Lucy

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Deda
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 07:16 PM

I am also very sorry to read of this awful loss. I pray that you find healing and comfort.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: s&r
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 10:00 AM

My wife is my friend, my workmate, my lover, my conscience and my inspiration. I cannot imagine life without her.

You have more sympathy than I have words to express.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Big Mick at work
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:34 PM

David, I grieve for you and with you. I cannot imagine the loss or how you will bear it, but I know that a worldwide community miracle known as The Mudcat is here for you in whatever way big or small that you require. I am proud of these people and their hearts. And I thank you for sharing your life with us. I don't know what I can do to support you, but my email is [e-mail].

To those that chose to turn this into a debate and a self serving recitation of credentials, shame on you. I hope David will forgive this. If anyone wants to continue that part of the discussion, would you please start a separate thread and post no more of this here. I would be grateful.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:38 PM

Well said, Mick. This is no place for egos.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lorraine
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:55 PM

Raptor-My thoughts and sympathy to you. Death seems so final. Memories, pictures, reminiscenses from others who have known her are only a little help, I suspect. But every little bit is some help, I hope. But my love and hugs to you even though we have never met. Lorraine

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM

Thanks Mick for saying what you did so well. Perfect.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:14 PM

Ya know what guys
If Heide was here she would be right in there argueing with you on how I should Grieve! She loved a good debate and this is a good debate!!

Nothing I've read here seems harmfull, Only people triing to be helpfull! And Heide was quite often My "brain" Iv'e lost that and could use all the guidence I can get so all sudgestions are welcome, and debateing is encouraged if kept in a friendly non-preachey fashion. She had a lot more spirituality than me and I don't know what to believe in now!

David

Thanks for looking out for me Mick!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Amos
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:46 PM

David:

I think I understand. I can only suggest you make a little plan to take over one thing at a time, notice yourself managing it, and each time you succeed at something where once you depended on Heidi, acknowledge yourself and her as well. Pick up the hats one at a time, one small skill at a time, and give yourself plenty of breathing room and plenty of baby-step triumphs. This will gradually enable you to resume your own whole and entire beingness in the world as your own man. Nothing is more worthwhile.

A

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:34 AM

Raptor,

I read the obituaries in my hometown newspaper, and find I learn so much about the community that doesn't come through in the rest of the paper. What is your local newspaper, is it online, and did you run an obituary for your wife? Did you use a photo?

To write an obituary you have to gather your thoughts, and distill what you know and loved about that person into a time capsule that you send out to the world. Sometimes they're the best writing in the paper.

When my father died I used a photo taken at a hoot at his house a few years earlier, because it caught him in an engaged and happy time. My mother was a skilled geneologist, and my sister made sure that her obit included family names and relationships that will speak to generations in the future. Some of the obits that really touch me are those where the woman may look like my mother and have a similar history, or I see the passings-on in the families old friends. And there are also touching memorial notices in the paper. One I took note of recently and sent to a friend who fishes was this one.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Escamillo
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:39 AM

When my dear wife died one year ago, I did write something that is not an obituary, but a simple, long letter. This was written for her two sisters and one brother, and for their children and as many generations as possible. In that letter I told them how I loved and respected this woman, how she dedicated her life to me and to our sons, how she made of me the happiest man in the world and our three sons the most beloved sons. I told them how noble was her sister, and how grateful I was for their welcoming to their family.

I wouldn't like to die any day without having told everybody who was my Graciela. It's an idea, for those of us who aren't able to write a book or many songs.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:19 AM

> Nothing I've read here seems harmfull, Only people triing to be
> helpfull! And Heide was quite often My "brain" Iv'e lost that and

Aloha nui loa David; my brother.

I certainly meant nothing harmful. I just wanted the other well intending indivisuals to give you some space until you were ready to share stories.

Everyone deals with grief differently and according to their own time table, and people going through grief should be supported, but should not be rushed along the grieving process according to someone else's schedule.

> She had a lot more spirituality than me and I don't know what to
> believe in now!

Assorted forms of spirituality were formed according to the varying levels of awareness of the people that founded them.

The assorted forms of spirituality are different, but there is not one true faith, and all of the others are wrong (as my guardians believed).

I would suggest that you explore several forms of spirituality, and follow the tradition that answers your spiritual questions.

Two Bears.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:20 AM

David it's good to see you check in here, sounding so chipper too! I keep wanting to phone you every day, but don't want you to start feeling "babysat" either!   :-/

Thanks for being so openminded towards the debate about grieving above. And now a true confession ... I take responsibility for starting it, because a couple suggestions above did not sit well with me when I first read them. I felt that if I were in your place, I would NOT want people phoning me on the monthly anniversary of my loved one's passing, or bombarding me with photos and stories at every opportunity. At least, not until I'd resolved my own feelings and memories somewhat, and that would take some time I'm sure. The very idea of people doing that made me want to cry out "beam me up, Scotty!" Knowing that Two Bears has more experience helping people deal with situations like this than I do, I asked for his opinion. And so he checked in here.

I did suggest to him that if he wanted to present his insights re grieving here, he start a new thread to do it. I really wish he had. The debate above feels so insensitive and inappropriate on this condolence thread. Thank you again for being so accepting. And hey, maybe Heide is enjoying the debate after all, from the "Other Side"! Thanks for that too!   :-)

...debating is encouraged if kept in a friendly non-preachey fashion.   I second the motion!

She had a lot more spirituality than me

Heide studied and practiced different spiritual traditions more than you do, but I don't think that means your spirituality is in any way "less than" hers. I think everyone has the same "amount" of spirituality. Just like everyone has vocal chords, yet not everyone chooses to becomes a public speaker or a singer! Spirituality is part of human nature, and it's our choice to explore and develop it ... or not. There's LOTS of other important and wonderful things to explore!

I don't know what to believe in now! Well, if I were you I'd know exactly what to believe in -- myself and my ability to easily, lovingly and wisely handle anything life throws at me. You are one special dude!

And please know that you and Heide are still in my prayers, (believe it or not!)    ;-)

daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 12:01 PM

Refresh, for David

Earth to Raptor ... Earth to Raptor ... Come in, Raptor! I wanna hear from ya pleeeeez ....

Love, daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 03:53 PM

I'm sorry I didn't see this sooner.

I send my deepest condolences for your loss, David, and my best thoughts and wishes for comfort and healing for you and your loved ones.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 09:09 AM

Thank you

Raptor

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 01:41 AM

Aloha nui loa Raptor; my brother.

I have been pretty busy this week and not had time to check on you as I should have. How are you doing?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Mrrzy
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 11:04 AM

So sorry, just read this very sad thread. Condolences especially in this midwinter time. It will get darker, but then it will get lighter again.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 09:40 AM

It's amazing how much love there is here on the mudcat!

I'm doing better every day, and between my friends babysitting me and my puppy I don't feel that lonely!

Thanks Again!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Sweetfia
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:39 AM

Sorry to hear about your loss...keep your head high and, though it may not fell lik eit right now, you will smile again.

Sophia xxx

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

Sophia, if you want to help David smile, just ask him how to achieve "enlightenment". (Something to do with an asscan --- oops, sorry, that's "ashram").

Raptor, my buddy! How come you're not at work this morning huh? HUH????

;-) Love and blessings, daylia

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Sweetfia
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:45 AM

Sorry, i was too deep in thought, that should have read....'not feel like it'.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 10:55 AM

I went snowshoeing with Raptor on the weekend, and he is doing pretty well, it seems. Me...I've been just barely holding off a cold (I think) ever since. So far so good. We have watched the entire first 2 seasons of "Trailer Park Boys" on DVD, and I can recommend it without reservation to anyone who does not have a broomstick rammed up their you-know-where...

The scenes where you get to see Ricky slide down the ravine behind the shopping mall about 15 times in a row and in his utter frustration yell a certain common expletive are worth the whole price of admission. :-) It's all about "supply and command", see? You master that, and it's "Freedom 35", baby! And all the pepperoni sticks you can eat.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:58 PM

Daylia I am at work!

This is where I mudcat the most!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 02:15 PM

Ooooo ... so you get to cat around at work too?

Figures!

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Big Tim
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 04:10 PM

Heartfelt sympathies.

I lost my favourite brother 18 months ago and I still miss him so badly. God knows how I'd survive if I lost my wife.

Sounds like, with LH and people like that, you have good friends. Hang in there.

John.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Angiemac
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:20 PM

My deepest sympathies to you and yours, may god bless you at this time. Angie

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 08:55 AM

I'm copeing thanks to all for sympathies and condolinses!

I'm sorry about your Brother Big Tim!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Stephen L. Rich
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 10:12 AM

There is nothing I can say or do which will make you fell any better right now. I know because my wife died two years ago. The only thing that you can do is to keep moving. Her memory will stay with you for the rest of your life. You may not believe it at the moment, but that's a GOOD thing. Cherish the time that you had together. As time progresses you wil realize more and more how lucky you are to have had it. It has already made you a different person than you were when it started. It will continue to change you as you move and grow in life.

My prayers are with you.

Stephen Lee

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Escamillo
Date: 18 Dec 03 - 03:44 PM

I've put a brass plate in my wife's grave, that reads "DON'T FORGET ME", because she knows that I will not forget her, and I only pray for her to remember me when we meet somewhere some day. I'm going to beleive that life is not absolute life and death is not absolute death, because I feel that we are still connected. I've lost fear and respect for death in the meantime.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:22 AM

Hey Raptor:

How have you been doing? I have not heard from you in a while.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Pistachio
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM

David, I've picked this up on Allisons BS Bereavenment thread. I send hugs and my heartfelt sympathy to you across the miles from East Yorkshire.
I don't want to get on the 'how to grieve' angle but on the 'what can help' angle. I suggest that too soon we forget how much that message / call / thought/ really counts. KEEP IN TOUCH. The griever may not react to every call or offer of help. Remember they cannot be expected to think too clearly while still in shock. I believe Allison, through her sadness, still recognises just how much love is generating towards her and I hope David can gain from that same love. David, take the time to keep in touch, give yourself time to grieve and don't be afraid to cry. It is allowed! I'm sure that your beloved wife would expect nothing less! Take care.

Hazel

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:16 AM

I break down every once in a while in the strangest places, yesterday it was in Blockbuster video store looking at movies Heide and I planned to rent!

It used to be embarising but now I'm triing to have fun with it! When people came up to me to ask if I was alright I figgered telling them The truth would only set me off worse so I blubbered "Old Yellers Gone!" And they quickly got out of my way. Cleared the line up too!

It's stupid shit like that, that I pull, that got Heide to fall in love with me!

She spent the last 12 years laughing at me as well as with me!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 09:36 AM

Heide loved animals and we had a few of them

Her website

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jeanie
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 11:09 AM

Thanks for the link to Heide's lovely website, David/Raptor. So much to read on it, I have only dipped into it so far - I particularly loved the story of "Smudgie" and the photo of "Jabba the Cat" - what a pose ! There are some great characters on that site - not least, of course, your lady herself.

Sending good thoughts and every good wish your way,

- jeanie (owner of Scuff, the Escapologist Hamster who Out-Houdinied Houdini)

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM

I think Heide was very wise. At the website she says, "Bits of my heart continue to go missing. But I wouldn't trade our time together--short as it is--for anything."

~Susan

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 12:45 PM

Beautiful site, David.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 06:32 PM

She loved her critters!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: *daylia*
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 09:57 AM

I can hardly see through my tears after reading through it, David, but Heide did a great job on that treasure of a website. Thank you for posting it. I like what she says about preferring to adopt animals rather than buying them.

Are you still taking donations in her memory for the "help a small animal fund"?

I'm so glad you're getting to the point now where you can express the grief and tears and feel okay about it, even in public. It's only going to get easier as time goes by, too. I've never lost a lover or spouse the way you have, but I have grieved the loss of a VERY close friend due to other circumstances. I remember breaking down in tears the way you describe, whenever something would remind me of him or the way we used to work/play together. Some parts of me had changed during that relationship ... I'd "picked up on" a few of his attitudes, his "turns of phrase" etc -- the way people do when they spend a lot of time together. I had to accept, express and then make peace with my own memories and the emotions attached to them before I could even "stand myself" again. It took a couple years, but it DID happen ..... so take heart, my friend.

Way to go at Blockbuster! I only wish I'd been there to see the look on people's faces. That crazy sense of humour of yours is one of your "saving graces" I think ... so "cultivate" it all you can ok? And your music, too ... hey, maybe that brand-new mandolin of yours would sound good with my Native American flute!

I know it's embarrassing to cry in public, even over a such a grievous loss as the one you're going through. Well, Heide's stories about her beloved rats brought this memory back to mind ...

My twin boys had pet rats for a couple years, and much to my surprise, I really came to enjoy them. And I learned quite a bit too ... for instance, did you know that the word for "Rat" is the same in just about every language on earth?

When the rats first arrived, I started realizing just how much the English language is "prejudiced" against rats -- (like "yuk what a ratty old blanket" ... or "I'm gonna RAT on you!" or "What a rat that guy is!").   I made every effort to purge myself of this "species-bigotry" ... but that's beside the point.

Rats have a short lifespan, and by the time the family rats were on their last legs, my sons had unfortunately switched their attention, loyalty and affection to my new kitten, the Roo. So I ended up doing the bulk of the caring for the rats myself. Even though I'd developed quite the allergy to them (and rats are the ONLY animals that ever gave me hives!) it became very hard to see them go.

The last survivor was our "King of the Cage", a black and white hooded rat named "The BAHHH!" (my kid's choice, I never did figure that one out!) I'd moved his cage into the furnace room, where it was nice and warm for his tired old bones. Well, my father and two furnace repairmen were in there working the morning I discovered The Bahhh! had finally taken flight for that Happy Rat-Hole in the Sky. I felt like quite the idiot, breaking down uncontrollably in tears, right in front of those strange men. I even had to ask them to remove him from the cage for me, so I could bury him, because I couldn't even touch him at that point without a severe allergic reaction. They were looking at me like I was absolutely nuts, so broken up over such a "lowly" and (for me anyway) "sickening" creature.

But they had enough compassion to send me away, once they finished laughing at me. They even buried him for me.

Anyway, sorry to go on so long, and thank you for the opportunity to share my experiences with rats and grieving. Call me ANYTIME, David, and hang in there ...

Love and blessings,

Michelle

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 11:17 AM

It used to be embarising but now I'm triing to have fun with it! When people came up to me to ask if I was alright I figgered telling them The truth would only set me off worse so I blubbered "Old Yellers Gone!" And they quickly got out of my way. Cleared the line up too!
-----

You have nothing to be embarassed about. Part of you hass gone beyond the veil, and it is only natural for you to be affected that way.

Please give yourself a break.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 11:43 AM

Two Bears, he's fine just as he is.

~S~

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 02:20 PM

Raptor, I expect that I will meet you at some time in the future, and I'm looking forward to that. But I'm very sorry I will not have the opportunity to meet Heide. She sounds like my kind of people. Especially her appreciation of rats. I used to have pet rats myself, and I think they're wonderful.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 02:28 PM

Carol has Jack had you see St.Johns yet? Heide and I got married on Signal Hill! And stayed at the Battery! She loved it! I might bring her ashes back there!

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 02:40 PM

No, we haven't made the trip to Nfld yet. I'm very much looking forward to that. We're hoping to get up there this coming summer. It's very cool that you got married there. How did you decide on that location?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 03:38 PM

My family is from the rock

David

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:49 AM

That's very cool, David. Which part or parts are they from?

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:51 AM

Hi David/Raptor,

I was saddened by your loss especially in a person so young.

I had to attend the funerals of two relatives a few years ago all in the space of one week. My mother and my father in law. I am not a believer as such but two poems were read that I found beautiful and spoke of hope and healing;

I am not there;

Do not stand at my grave and weep;
I am not there, I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond that glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the mornings's hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there, I did not die.

Death is ntohing at all...

I have only slipped away into the next room,
I am I, and you are you
Whatever we were to each other, that we are still.
Call me by my old familiar names, speak to me,
In the easy way in which you always used,
Put no difference into your tone,
Wear no forced air of solemnity or sorrow,
Laugh as we always laughed at the little jokes we enjoyed together,
Play, smile, think of me, pray for me.
Let my name be for ever more a household word that it always was.
Let it be spoken without effort, without the ghost of a shadow on it.
Life means all that it ever meant:
There is absolutely unbroken continuity.
What is this death but a negligable accident.

Best regards

Frank (AKA Shanghaiceltic)

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:27 AM

Shanghaiceltic thanx it was 2 months ago today that Heide passed! The poems made me smile!

Carol St.Johns

Raptor

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Escamillo
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 12:50 AM

Yes, that's the continuity I was talking about in the "Bereavement" thread, a feeling of loose continuity as opposed to a net division between life and death. It's difficult to explain. For now, I'm here and will give everything I can give to others, especially to our sons.

Un abrazo,
Andrés

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 06:58 AM

Andres

Your right!

Raptor

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Two_bears
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 06:06 AM

Two Bears, he's fine just as he is.
-----

Susan; If you had read the message; you would see that we are in agreement.

I was trying to tell Raptor that it is only natural for emotions to come up when he saw the videos that he and Heide had intended to rent or buy, and thet he should not beat himself up if he expressed emotions in public.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 05:40 PM

Was just talking to Raptor, and he asked me to post this:

He just got word from the coroner that according to the medical autopsy evidence, Heidi passed away due to "cardiomyopathy" (heart failure), and not to the effects of a drug overdose. Natural causes, in other words. Raptor is relieved about that, and he wanted me to post it, because he's on the job right now and can't get to a computer.

- LH

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: wysiwyg
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 07:19 PM

Thanks, LH.

~S~

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 07:24 PM

Drug Overdose was never in question what we had suspected was a side effect or reaction from the drugs.It has been on the news a lot here in Canada about drug side effects and we feared that we might never have Known the "cause" it gives us some closure!

Raptor

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: SINSULL
Date: 14 Apr 04 - 07:50 PM

I hope you find some peace with the news, Raptor. I keep you in my prayers.
Mary

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 05:53 AM

That's good news in a sad time, my friend.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 06:21 AM

I've just come online to see this thread.

My sympathy and loving energy goes out to you, David.

I first came to Mudcat because a mutual friend told me there was a thread on my friend and lover, the late (but not forgotten) Walt Robertson.

I'm only mentioning this because there may indeed come a time when you'd like to share some thoughts about your wife with us, and I know it will be received with appreciation.

Stay well, take the time you need to think or not think, feel or not feel. A loving and supportive community is here for you...xx..e

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Nov 09 - 10:54 PM

6 years tommorow.

What a long strange trip its been.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 12:40 AM

Life is a long, strange trip too. But we all deal with it the best way we can. Call me anytime.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 02:17 AM

David,
When you see her again, you'll know she was never gone.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:10 AM

David

I am relatively new to mudcat so only now learning of your loss. 36 is too young.

Thankful for what guest from sanity said... I will try to not to just mark the days when I can be with my daughter again. I will try to remember to include her in the little and big things I do every day and imagine what she would say to this song, that book, this event.

Lovely website by your wife, shows what a kind and caring person she was. I hope you will share some stories about her.

Last May I started a birthday memoriam thread for my Andie to tell, stories about her and record what others have said about her. Helped me share the wonderful girl and young woman that I and others knew. Helped me realise she isn't completely gone. I may not be able to hug her, sing and laugh with her, but she still provided some entertainment and wisdom and vibrancy to the mudcatters who read that thread. So very much alive in a very important way. Not merely physical.

Your memories of Heide can do the same.


Much love

Tamara

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: kendall
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:46 AM

There is only one thing that can compare with losing a spouse,and that's losing a child.
My deepest sympathies to you.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 05:54 AM

Reading this thread takes my guts out, however much death stalks us all there's never any dealing with it. Strange though, only yesterday we received the new ISSA / Jane Siberry CD on which, at last, she includes In My Dream which I first heard her perform at Newcastle on her British tour 4 years ago.

I have no conscious memory of my father, who died, aged 30, on Christmas Day 1963 when I was two years old. Listening to Jane (as she was back then) singing In my Dream revealed a memory or a realisation that one upon a time, I too must have ran along with my father through the autumn leaves. Maybe in the autumn of 1961 - or 1962 - when he could still walk at least.

The song takes my guts out too but for those we have lost to come smiling back in our faces telling us to cherish what we have. Here she is singing it solo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LFHgbVk-WE

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 06:46 AM

Much love to you, David...and oh gosh, Heide is all around you..and she always will be.

What a lady, eh! :0)   

I've just been reading her website, on your link above..such a caring, loving soul, as is the man she chose to spend her short life with. I'm so glad you found one another..and that you're still linked so strongly through your love, even to this day.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 07:44 AM

Hello, friend. Yes, it's been 6 years, hasn't it? You and I have walked a long pathway since then. My life has changed for the better in ways I could never imagine, but just as love never dies, grief never really goes away, either, does it?
May you find more healing and joy in the memories as time flows on.

Allison

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: GUEST,Bobert in Charlotte
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 07:53 AM

Been 13 years for me now... I'd like to say that it gets easier but it doesn't... Just know that keeping her memories alive is the highest praise that you can give wife and also know that she knows full well how much you loved, and continue, to love her...

Here's wishing you both a little peace for this day and your days to come...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 08:38 PM

I'm so very sorry, David.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: KT
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 10:11 PM

I don't know how I missed this thread before, David. I only thing I can add is that kind thoughts are with you on this November day. May there be some light for you in your memories of laughter and happy times with your dear wife. Be well.   KT

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Gurney
Date: 28 Nov 09 - 10:28 PM

A good friend died suddenly and unexpectedly from undetermined causes a month or so ago.   We still don't quite know what to say to his wife.
All sympathy to you.   

Chris.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Raptor
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 08:02 AM

I spent the day cleaning out my dead fathers apt. we have to give it back at the end of the month.

I feel 5 shades of shitty right now.

It's probably a good thing I quit drinking after the Jimmy Buffett concert or I'd feel a lot worse.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Nov 09 - 12:47 PM

Yeah, I would think so.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 08:13 AM

I have just realised that my first wife would now have reached twice the age that she was when she died from an aneurism(28).

It took me some time to move on and it was the folk world that did most of the healing for me.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Pistachio
Date: 30 Nov 09 - 10:08 AM

Mudcat hugs still here for you - ((((((((David)))))))


Hazel.x

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 05:10 AM

folk world helped BBCW move on. Well I wouldn't say folk music helped me move "on" from my daughter's passing. More a lateral move. Sometimes the folk music and the folk people make the grief harder, because I want her to have lived to be involved in the music and meet the people.

Anyway

David, here's more thoughts going out to you.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 08:07 AM

Perhaps "move on" was the wrong phrase, but I was in danger of becoming emotionally catatonic. Seeing the vitality of various persons I knew, that represented the "folk world" to me, it showed me that I should not become so for my own health.

I don't suppose that there was a Mudcat or its equivalent back then but the empathy from folkies, so well shown here, was evident just the same.

Best wishes to all.

Subject: RE: Obit: My Wife
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 01 Dec 09 - 10:28 AM

Bless you BBCW... from my mind and heart through your fingers on to this thread.

Most definitely the people of Mudcat help immensely.