When to cancel the concert (snow!)

Subject: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 06:56 AM

My women's chorus is supposed to have its second (and last) concert of the season tonight. Saturday is alwasy the big night- it's the one that gets recorded, it has the biggest audience.

Amd I need the $ I'd make tonight! (of course, if no one comes, I wouldn't make any money anyway!)

But the blizzard that's hitting the East Coast of the US has started-
Now, this is New Hampshire, where most of us have snow tires and 4-wheel drive. But there has to be a point where one decides the weather is too bad and the concert must be cancelled. We rented a hall that has no manager, it's entirely up to us to decide.

What would YOU do?

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 07:08 AM

If -they- closed the roads, I'd cancel the show... but I'd be ready to put on something for the folks who -DO- show up anyway...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 07:12 AM

That was my thought; only problem is my assistant director and I both live 12 miles from town and the deciding factor may be if WE can get out of our driveways!

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 07:19 AM

Go now?

:-)

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 07:38 AM

Steve Gillette and Cindy Mangsen are scheduled to play the Ripton coffeehouse tonight. We wanted to go, and reserved a slot on the open mike that precedes the main concert. Ripton is accessed by a leetle mountain road through a steep gorge. So we're wondering what the criteria for cancellation are. It just started snowing here an hour or so ago.

Cindy said they got the gig this month because they were scheduled for January this year and it was cancelled due to a snowstorm!

Peter.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:35 AM

A member of my advisory board is on the city council; she just called me from a meeting that's being attended by the chief of police and the head of the dept of public works. They said, cancel the damn concert!!
So that's what I've done.
I just have to keep telling myself:
I love living in New England
I love living in New England
I love living in New England
I love living in New England
I love living in New England
I love living in New England...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 08:49 AM

You and patrons want to sing/hear the music. Police and public works want to keep people off the roads. There ARE people who'll drive in '12"-and-falling'. Trust me - there are. I only ever got hung up on snow (not a stump - stop it!) higher than the bottom of my car. Some guy just bought a new jeep and was tootling all over looking for people to pull out of and off stuff. He got me back on the road, where I continued to travel away from home.

Sorry about the concert and I hope you can re-schedule it.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:44 AM

Sorry the concert was cancelled. Hope it can be rescheduled.

I'm guess I am surprised you would be asking for advice. What useful advice could you possibly hope to get from somebody who doesn't live in NH and know firsthand the context of your question? It's not just a question of the weather conditions, but how the local people in charge of road maintenance handle those weather conditions, and how local drivers handle those weather conditions. I've lived in places where 1/2 inch of snow produces disaster on the roads and places where 1 foot of snow is shrugged off.

I don't think is is really a question of whether people "can" drive in a blizzard, or are "willing to" drive in a blizzard. It's a question of whether they "should" be driving in a blizzard. Driving in bad weather is hard work and dangerous whether the people who are doing the driving are willing to acknowledge the dangers or not.

Police and public works people want to keep people off the roads for good reasons. Nobody in his right mind wants to have to deal with the aftermath of an accident at 3AM with three feet of snow on the ground. You probably don't want to have to deal with the thought that the driver was killed on the way to or from a concert you didn't cancel.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 09:59 AM

You're not alone. WUMB Boston Folk Radio has issued this notice;
Snowstorm CANCELS "Bazaar of the Stars". With deep regrets we have decided to cancel the "Bazaar of the Stars" scheduled for today, Saturday, December 6th as a result of the snowstorm.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:07 PM

You might find this helpful:

RELATED THREAD about what we did under similar circumstances.

When you read that, keep in mind we had no more advance notice than you have right now, to do SOMETHING.

In your situation, I think I would ask any members who can get in, to go and help lead a singalong for anyone who wanders in. Or make it a rehearsal time to listen to new music-- people will love seeing how you work with even a few singers. And if you can get in now, go, to lead it and represent the group.... do your phoning from there.... take along some book work or reading material to catch up on in case you're there all by your lonesome.

Also take CDs to sell (I just got mine and WOWWWWW!!!) and if nothing else, play it in the background as you visit with intrepid souls who come because they didn't hear it was canceled.

~Susan

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:14 PM

After years of doing this stuff, I'd say that Clinton and Russ are both right. And it is because of people like Jeri (among whom I count myself) that they are.

There's an element of denial (or maybe just Yankee stubbornness) in saying,"I can handle this," with your eye more on the event that you don't want to miss than on the road condition reality. At some point, we - as presenters - have to take some responsibility for continuing to hang the carrot in front of the donkey's nose.

One of the best Niskayuna Festivals (on which I think Jeri worked ?) began in a snowstorm much like this one. We didn't cancel. Nobody ditched, nobody died, and everyone who made it was stoked about stickin' it to Old Man Winter. That Friday night concert was a blast.How many dances in New England are like that ?

But again, Vaughn lost a beloved singing partner to an accident on the Northway on a dicey night, driving home from a event she probably shouldn't have tried to attend. It happens.

What needs another mention is the burden you put on your artists to try to make if you don't cancel. I don't think many people like to wimp out on a gig. And when it is an ensemble, and you know others are trying to make it, you just go.

For what it's worth, Animaterra, I think you did the right thing.
CAN you reschedule ?

- George (only in here 'cause I'm avoiding starting the snowblower. It is snowing meaningfully in Saratoga County.)

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:36 PM

I am in Boston and whooeee it isnowing up a storm. I am tempted to strap on the cross-country skis and head for the park up the road but the wind is blowing hard enough that this would not necessarily be pleasant.
I have an afternoon and evening of festivities planned (a holiday party and then club-hopping with a friend) but I am thinking it might be best to stay home...even though I would not be driving but taking public transportation.
I think the weatherguys tend to exaggerate this stuff sometimes, but this one is a doozy, esspecially for the first storm of the season where, notoriously, drivers in Boston seem to have forgotten how to drive in snow...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:47 PM

Sure hate scheduling winter concerts. You never know when the snow is going to blow in and make a mess of it. This storm doesn't seem to be media hype and cancelling makes painful sense. But see what you can do to reschedule, maybe between Christmas and New Year's when nothing is happening.

Charley Noble, just back to Maine from summer in Oz

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:51 PM

...drivers in Boston seem to have forgotten how to drive in snow...

C'mon, Peg...that implies drivers in Boston ever knew how to drive in snow...in fact, that implies drivers in Boston ever knew how to drive...

Sorry, my prejudices are showing again...

Peter.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 12:55 PM

I took my driving test for my license in a blizzard, and both of my parents drove for a living, but I've done some pretty risky things. (Like making a 6 hour 3 hour trip to visit a friend in college when the blizzard was a 'white-out' and I had to watch the tail lights of the person in front of me to have some clue where the road was.) That said, there are people who can slow down and drive carefully in nasty weather. The real hazards are the people who can't, and the odd complete loss of control from ice or whacking a big pile of unflattened/unplowed snow. In any case, if there was music, there was nothing that would have stopped my trying to get there.

If I'd been killed, it would have been my own fault, but it likely wouldn't have stopped those who decided the event should go on from feeling like they might have prevented it.

George, was it the first or second one? I think I made it to all of them, but I remember the first more than any other. I made the potato soup. (And I snagged a Marshall Dodge poster which I still have, which has "Friday Night Niskayuna Festival" written on it.)

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM

Well, only one of the Snowplow Boys (they need a fiddle tune) has his plow stuck on his truck. I'm going out to shovel.
(George, I got the "V.I.P. Lounge" sign too. What a pack rat...)

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:12 PM

I've been able to reschedule the concert to tomorrow night!!
The main problem, besides the obvious safety issue about driving, is parking. The parking lots won't be plowed, since they're for the city hall and local bank, neither of which will need emergency plowing on a Saturday night. Cars that manage to find a spot on the street are likely to get plowed in. I feel much easier knowing that we're on for tomorrow night. The local radio stations are supposed to announce it, and we've got a phone tree going.

The biggest problem I'm having is getting my snowblower to work! It isn't blowing at all, just bunching clods of snow up the chute and then stopping. Oh, well, I've got 2 teenagers and 3 shovels!

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM

Jeri, I'll have to ponder a bit whether it was the first festival or the second.

What I remember that pertains to the present discussion (but this is Mudcat; does it matter?) is Bob McQuillen having a dance gig cancelled in Vergennes, VT because of the storm and opting to drive to Niskayuna in that same storm, camping trailer in tow. As I recall, we found Mac, trailer and coffeepot in the parking lot next morning, bright of eye and bushy of tail.

I didn't even remember that such a thing as a Marshall Dodge poster existed! I have a bunch of stuff, but not that nor a VIP lounge sign. Hmm. Online Niskayuna Festival gallery ?

Vaughn was contemplating a Niskayuna Festival reunion before she died (two years ago tomorrow). It boggles the mind (mine boggles far more easily than her's ever did), but...???

- George ::-.--O

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:31 PM

That sounds exactly like Mac! He's a peach, and I'm lucky to know him!

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:32 PM

Good news, Animaterra!   - G

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 01:57 PM

Peter; you'll never get an argument from me on that one! The one thing I hate about this city more than aything else is the way people drive here. Moronic and foolhardy doesn't even begin to cover it. Homicidally stupid is more like it.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 03:21 PM

George, the Marshall Dodge poster has a picture of him on a TV screen in the center and little oval photos of various of his characters. The V.I.P lounge sign was shield-shaped and painted to look like wood. If I recall correctly, it kept falling off the door to the teacher's lounge.

I think I remember either you or Vaughn saying something about a Niskareunyian. If one happened, I'd be there. Vaughn was perhaps the best person at organising stuff I've ever known. I can't really think of anyone else who would have helped a bunch of high school kids put on a really good folk festival, or (the hard part) inspire us to believe we could do it! Anyway, an on-line gallery sounds great, but I don't know if anyone else kept anything. (My scanner's busted and I don't have a digital camera, or I'd send you small piccies.) If you've got an off-line gallery, I wouldn't mind sending these things to you.

Sorry Allison, but it seems like we're all snowed in here together, and it seem reasonable to chat. If we could share some hot cocoa and freshly baked cookies over the internet, we'd be all set.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 04:16 PM

I just got in my first cross-country ski of the season. Great! Pittsford has built a nice public trail system that I can get onto out of my back door. This is true luxury.

Two questions:

1) I concede that sex - good, loving friendly sex - is better than the first beer after coming in from cross-country skiing hard. I can't think of anything else that is. Can anyone else?

2) Can anyone suggest a nursing home in the northeast that provides masseuses and a chiropractor, on staff?

Peter.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 04:27 PM

coming in from cross-country skiing hard

Now, THERE'S an image! :~)

I failed to look closely enough this morning, so I'll have to ask Hardi to see if that also applies to the first John Deere snow-removal exercise of the year... I thought he only needed hot tea!? Ooops!

~Susan

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 04:40 PM

Peter, would the masseuse and the chiropractor come before or after the good, loving, friendly sex ?

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 05:21 PM

No, they come after the cross-country skiing. I don't need them after the other - yet - I hope...

P.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Peg
Date: 06 Dec 03 - 06:30 PM

Good job on the rescheduling! I hope the concert goes well!

ooh, I LOVE cross-country skiing, but it was way too windy for it today. The snow is still falling fast, we will probably have two feet by tomorrow. I plan to go skiing tomorrow, though, no matter what.

Yeah, that first beer afterwards is lovely, all right...I think this sport engenders more and/or better endorphins than just about anything...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Hrothgar
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 05:42 AM

It snowed about two hundred miles from here a few years ago.

:-)

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 06:19 AM

Well, I very foolishly drove to a party that I would have missed due to the concert- not only was the driving terrible (getting there was not so bad, coming home was whiteout conditions) but I got there and realized I am not yet in any shape for that kind of party- loud (rock) music, wall-to-wall people, not everyone knows each other- I stayed an hour, nursing my ginger ale- and left.
The snow's still falling, my snowblower isn't working, and my back aches from shoveling.
I love living in New England...
I love living in New England...
I love living in New England...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:08 AM

Oh, boy, it's morning and it's still snowing and I can shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and shovel and....go back to bed.

Peter.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:13 AM

Jeri,
My uncle swore this was a true story.

He was driving in blizzard conditions, following the tail lights of the car in front of him. Suddenly the tail lights disappeared. For some reason he stopped the car and got out to investigate rather than continue. He discovered that he (and the car ahead) had driven off the road and through a field. The leading car had gone over a cliff. The driven was dead.

Why would you think the guy in front of you can see any better than you?

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Willie-O
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 08:38 AM

Russ, I guess the theory is the guy in front of you is following someone else's taillights, you hope...and so on up to the inevitable front of the line, which of course is where the slowest driver in the world is hunched behind the wheel, half-paralysed with terror...and that's who everyone is following!

Or another way of looking at it is if there are taillights ahead, you can definitely make it another hundred feet...

I'm quite quite glad to be well north of New England, hadn't even heard about your storm...no snow yesterday and "chance of flurries" today. We have some on the ground though and its kind of cold...seasonal adjustment in progress.

W-O

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 09:32 AM

Russ, Willie-O's got it. I don't think the guy in front of me can see any better, but if his tail lights disappear, I don't go there. Gotta have a 'point man'. Even if you follow someone who takes a path not (normally) traveled, he's got a buddy if he realizes he's lost and stops.

I don't know how much snow we got overnight. I don't think it was that much, but it's still coming down and blowing around like crazy. I know I heard the town plow last night, but the street looks pretty white at the moment. At least the wind's blown the stuff off my car!

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:49 AM

George, Was that the Niskayuna I was on? I seem to remember snow that year. Great festival, great memories. Burl

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Peg
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:52 AM

Mostly just blowing here at the moment; looks like about a foot of snow, but the drifts are higher. I only ventured onto my front and back porches last night to sweep snow off; today I think I will head out with my cross-country skis. (But maybe not up the hill the half-mile to Franklin Park, lovely as those trails will be through the wooded area; maybe DOWN the hill to the Southwest Corridor Park! wide open and flat).

I am definitely getting a bit stir-crazy...

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: bbc
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 12:11 PM

I used my snowblower yesterday & this am for the 1st time. This is, also, my 1st snow in the new house & 1st time facing snow alone. So far, so good. Snowblower is a champ (top-of-the-line Honda w/ treads). Amusingly, the amount of snow on my driveway seems to be less than anyplace else. I wouldn't recommend crushed rock for a front walkway, though; it is a real bear to try to shovel! False economy, I guess.

I voluntarily opted out of the dance weekend in PA that I had planned for this weekend. I suspect they may have cancelled, anyway, but it just didn't seem responsible to me to arrive home Sunday pm w/ the forecast we had. Just for the record, it's still snowing here, on the border between NY, CT, & MA.

Love to you, Allison. You can do it! XXOO

best,

bbc

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 07 Dec 03 - 10:29 PM

Let's see, Burl. That would be the festival after which you and I sat chatting amiably in the lounge of the Albany airport watching your intended flight (destination: Bermuda) back away from the gate and take flight without you. Vaughn never let me forget that.

Hmm. Today is the second anniversary of her passing, and here you come to remind me.

I think she's still not about to let me forget, or you either!

Well, all the best from both of us then.   - George ::-.--O

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 10:35 AM

He was a passenger on an outbound flight
More than twenty-one days if he'd walked
He forgot about the flowers of Bermuda at the sight
Of the plane, leaving as he talked

I'm hoping Allison will come back and tell us how it went, or IF it went. I sat here watching the snow fall all day yesterday and worried she might have to cancel the re-scheduled show. She's farther west of me though, and it stopped snowing there earlier than it did here. Hope it stopped early enough!

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:30 AM

Jeri,

As well as the boys, their partners, assorted friends and I did a remembering Vaughn yesterday, we didn't really give enough weight to her wicked sense of humor....a dangerous oversight, as you well know.

Thanks for restoring the balance...(snort! Giggle!).

Wish you were here (to help me clean the spewed coffee off my keyboard).

-G

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: NH Dave
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM

The only trouble with following the lights of the car ahead is that sooner or later he is going to turn into his driveway and wonder a bit about the whole line of cars behind him.

Reminds me of the year I worked hard to fail college. In addition to a light course load I was ski bumming at Hogback Mountain, all the way across southern NH via Routes 101 and 9. I'd leave as early as I could Friday afternoon, stay with a friend in Marlboro, VT, work the two days at the ski shop at Hogback, and start home Sunday afternoon with enough money to eat - eating and hourly pay were much cheaper then - plus gas for the next weekend. More than once I lost it on Dublin Mountain, bounced between the plough drifts on each side of the road, and finally getting the car pointed in the desired direction, pressed on.

Dave

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Midchuck
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 12:33 PM

Someone else who remembers skiing Hogback! You must be hellish old!

(like me)

Peter.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 12:38 PM

We did have the concert; the skies finally stopped dropping the white stuff around 4 pm!
The audience was smaller than usual, but very enthusiastic. The chorus sang beautifully. It was a good evening, but
- very emotionally draining for me. It was the first concert that my Byron wasn't around to record. Fortunately we found a good man to fill his shoes- we'll see what the results sound like. But I ached not to have the love of my life smiling at me from behind the controls.
And the sun is shining today, but I'm very blue. I'm glad it's over.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Jeri
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 01:06 PM

Glad you were able to do the concert, Allison. Hope in time the pain fades and the memory doesn't.

George, I think Vaughn took it easy on me with the humor, but I do remember a few times when a comment whooshed by so fast I got it 5 minutes later. I remember Vaughn's "Folklore & Oral Tradition" class, and the time there was a new kid who'd transferred from Georgia. He was talking in the back, and she said something about jumping on him with both feet. (I'm not sure exactly, but it had something to do with feet.) He didn't look upset, rather surprised because he didn't expect anyone in this new place to have heard it. Vaughn had to explain it to the rest of us, and I watched the kid as she did so. He quit yakking, BUT the connection was made between his old home and his new, between himself and the other kids, and between himself and the teacher with one short phrase. The rest of us got to learn something important, but not obvious, about oral tradition in the process. Pure magic.

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: georgeward
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 06:58 PM

Lovely story, Jeri, and the sort of connecting that Vaughn loved to do. I'll pass it on the Nathaniel and Pete.

Allison (on pretty much the same subject), I've said so often these past two years that anything worth sharing that has happened since my own beloved partner died is - and I think will continue to be - bittersweet. The loss drives home a truth about life - we are all temporary - that is no longer deniable. And it does it by taking the light of your life.

You can give up, shut down in denial or imagine more simplistic clarity from the Creator than he/she is willing to give. But if you don't do any of that, you can share the good that you and your partner found in life with a clearer sense of its value, of the moment's value, of life's value.

You can make some really good things happen. You can simply dig stuff. And every good thing you do or dig will be bittersweet, worth it and a tribute to the relationship you shared (and still do).

That's what I think I've learned from a lesson I never requested (except that I did, of course; love is that kind of risk).

I'm glad you got to do the concert. - George ::-.--O

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: Joybell
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:56 PM

So glad you made it through the concert Alison. Rest up take in the sunshine. Joy

Subject: RE: When to cancel the concert (snow!)
From: GUEST,KateG at work
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:16 PM

Glad you were able to reschedule the concert, and that it went well.

Here in NW New Jersey we had a disappointing 10". The weather channel was promising us 15-20", but as usual, the storm stayed off the coast and we were scunnered. Tried a little XC ski-ing over the weekend, but there was slush under the snow, so no glide. We've got to move north as soon as our income can be cut loose from jobs in the NYC metro area.

Beer after a hard XC ski, warm snuggly sex...good list, but I'd have to add Haagen Daaz ice cream, and make mine whiskey rather than beer.

KateG