Cold Mountain (the movie)

Subject: Cold Mountain
From: John Hardly
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 10:42 PM

Are you guys as dubious as I about the casting for "Cold Mountain" (the movie)? If you had asked me for the least likely lead(s) I probably couldn't come up with more unlikely names/actors. I'm still anxious to see it but it sounds as though it is hardly the movie I anticipated -- missing in both mood and style......

...like going to a museum in anticipation of a Grant Wood or Thomas Hart Benton exibition, only to be greeted by a Thomas Kincaid vomitfest.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Tom D.
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:49 PM

I agree. The book had real substance to it--the substance of regular people. No offense, but I've seen (more than) enough of Nicole K. for a while anyway. From the bits I have seen in ads on TV, the house seems a bit more palatial than I recall. With respect to the casting of Renee Z. in that particular role, I can go either way (though she generally weirds me out).

Tom D.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 08 Dec 03 - 11:52 PM

John - I was a little surprised too at the casting, but both women - Nicole Kidman and Rene Zellweger - are talented actresses and should be box office draws given their last few pictures. For a big budget movie from an award-winning book the producers obviously weren't going to cast unknowns. I also thought Jude Law was about as equitable a choice as anyone.

What will really matter, I believe, is who they get for the minor characters, like the runaway preacher, Zellweger's father (Stobard sp?), etc. Also, how many of the characters they eliminate or "combine" to make a simpler movie plot line. From what I can glean from the few previews I've seen, the film seems to generally follow the book's story. Time will tell, though.

I'm curious. Who would you (or other Mudcatters) have cast for the three leads ?

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: BanjoRay
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 07:30 AM

This is from Riley Baugus, who built the banjo seen in the film and was a dialect coach, and is a superb Round Peak banjo player who learned from Tommy Jarrel. I got it from the alt.music.country.old-time newsgroup.

I did build the only banjo that you see on the screen and I am the
singing voice of the character Pangle, played by a wonderful actor
named Ethan Suplee. The other musicians involved are folks like
Allison Krauss, Dirk Powell, Tim O'Brien, Tim Eriksen, Norman and
Nancy Blake, Stuart Duncan, Mike Compton, and Jack White from The
White Stripes. I have the honour of singing a song with Mr. White on the soundtrack CD and in the film. Sting, Elvis Costello, and TBone Burnett wrote songs that are in the film and I think they fit perfectly. >
Cheers
Ray

Subject: Soundtrack
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 07:43 AM

Riley Baugus appeared last month at the Ryburn Folk Club, Ripponden, England. The soundtrack is released on 16 December, the film on Christmas Day US, Boxing Day UK. The soundtrack listing is:

Jack White 'Wayfaring Stranger'
Reeltime Travelers 'Like a Songbird That Has Fallen'
Tim Eriksen, Riley Baugus & Tim O'Brien 'I Wish My Baby Was Born'
Alison Krauss 'The Scarlet Tide'
Tim Eriksen & Riley Baugus 'The Cuckoo'
Jack White 'Sittin' on Top of the World'
Tim Eriksen 'Am I Born To Die?'
Alison Krauss 'You Will Be My Ain True Love'
Sacred Harp Singers at Liberty Church 'I'm Going Home'
Jack White 'Never Far Away'
Jack White 'Christmas Time Will Soon Be Over'
Stuart Duncan & Dirk Powell 'Ruby With the Eyes That Sparkle'
Cassie Franklin 'Lady Margaret'
Jack White 'Great High Mountain'
Gabriel Yared 'Anthem'
Gabriel Yared 'Ada Plays'
Gabriel Yared 'Ada and Inman'
Gabriel Yared 'Love Theme'
Sacred Harp Singers at Liberty Church 'Idumea'

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: John Hardly
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:40 AM

The soundtrack sounds good --but I sure hope it sounds old-timey, not bluegrassy. Does Hollywood know the difference? AKUS is too polished for Cold Mountain -- too polished for rural 1865.

As to the actors -- I just never imagined glamour girls for the leads. I'd have to think of who I'd imagine, though I guess I'd rather imagine regular looking no names.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:45 AM

casting is all wrong, as far as the book goes, but this is a movie, not a book, and it's bound to be different from the book. I hope the character of the woman who lives by herself, can't remeber her name right now, is included and is done well, and it better not be Meryl Streep! we'll have to wait and see, and the music looiks good on paper, but how it's used in the film will make all the difference.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:52 AM

I never could get into the book. I tried it a couple of times - but it just didn't interest me.

The movie may be OK. The ads make it look like a typical Hollywood flick - the music look promising.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Burke
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 10:16 AM

Stobrod is played by Brendan Gleeson. Tim Eriksen is his singing voice. Tim also helped the producers connect to real Sacred Harp singers for those parts instead of using a few singers in a studio. The L.A. Times also had an article about Tim.

There was an earlier thread Here.
Last Friday NPR had a program on Sacred Harp singing that is probably a direct result of the music being used in Cold Mountain.

I've put the CD on my Christmas list & think I've forgotten enough of the novel to enjoy the movie on its own terms.

On that track list, "Am I Born to Die" and "Idumea" are actually the same song.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Butch
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 11:58 AM

I hav been asked by ABC news to comment on some of the music from a historic perspective. I see that Riley Baugus built the banjo. Does anyone know what it looked like? I would love to know. Any information would be great.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 12:48 PM

Read the book. Didn't like it. Don't like Jude Law OR Nicole Kidman. Too much like Ken & Barbie. (don't like Tom Cruise either, but think I will make the effort to see The Last Samurai.)

Do own, and love, the Songs from the Mountain CD by Tim O'Brien & others.

Who would I have cast? Matthew McConaughey as Inman, Cate Blanchett or Winona Ryder as Ada, Juliette Lewis as Ruby.

My advice to everyone is to read The Black Flower instead. A far superior book, and more worthy of a movie IMHO.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 01:28 PM

Black Flower? better song too!

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:04 PM

Thanks Jed! :-)

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:38 PM

Kim C. - I liked the book until the rather melodramatic ending. Also noticed that there were some lines which seemed to come, almost word for word, from certain bluegrass songs about relationships (and they weren't part of songs in the book, just narrative!).

I also ran across an article on old timey fiddler/banjoist Tommy Jarrel in which he tells a story about a 14-year-old girl cousin getting burned and how she requested he play the banjo for her before she died - much like Stobrod plays the fiddle for the dying girl.

I suspect the author of Cold Mountain is really into old timey and bluegrass music. That said, however, the idea that old timey music as we know it today would be authentic for a Civil War era film might be stretching it a bit.

From what I can tell, a lot of old timey music is from the 1920's & 30's, from musicians like Charlie Poole, et al, who got a good deal of their repertoire from sheet music isssued around the turn of the century (1900), not from 1860 era.

Your choices for the three leads are interesting. I like Matthew M. and had forgotten about Juliette Lewis - she would be good.
However, I think J Lo and Ben Affleck would be a better pairing ! :)

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GLoux
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 03:59 PM

There is a lot of old time music from the Civil War period. The older the better, in my opinion, but the older the music and the techniques (e.g., bowing the fiddle) the less likely that millions of viewers would find it appealing. BanjoRay did not post all of Riley's comments, some of which address this issue...I'll track 'em down and post them here soon.

-Greg

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GLoux
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 04:32 PM

Riley posted this (and what BanjoRay posted here) to the New River Old Time (NROT) listserver:

"...I went to a press screening of the film today. I loved it. I thought the film was very, very well done and was extremely gripping. Very realistic. Some things are a bit different from the book, but I feel that the film adaptation holds true to the spirit of the story in the book. I think the project will appeal to millions of people. Lots of stuff here for music lovers and for those who pay no attention to the music at all. The music in the film is really wonderful. It is not strictly hard-core, Old-time, but it's great..."

-Greg

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Dani
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:13 PM

Though not perfect, I thought the book had two great qualities: one is the vivid landscapes and scenes of North Carolina. I was crushed to hear that they filmed in Romania because it looked ALMOST like, but people and production were cheaper there. Imagine!

When I drive up or down the highways that cut throught the forests here I often think of crossing paths with the soldiers who walked home, defeated, broken, sick and hungry.

I also think the book has some of the most beautiful bits of writing I've ever come across. This quote I have kept with me since reading it there:

"From any direction she came at it, the only conclusion that left her any hope of self-content was this: what she could see around her was all that she could count on. The mountains and a desire to find if she could make a satisfactory life of common things here – together they seemed to offer the promise of a more content and expansive life, though she could in no way picture even its starkest outlines. It was easy enough to say… that the path to contentment was to abide by one's own nature and follow its path. Such she believed was clearly true. But if one had not the slightest hint toward finding what one's nature was, then even stepping out on the path became a snaggy matter."

Dani

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 05:27 PM

The cd (Sony) will be released Dec. 16. Songs and/or arrangements not in the film will be added, including Sting, "You will be my ain true love," and Elvis Costello, "The Scarlet Tide," both sung by Alison Krause.
Five additional tracks by Jack White (The White Stripes) will be added.
The list of 19 tracks is given by Amazon.com. A number of them seem to be post- War Between the States.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:20 PM

I have not seen it---but the trailers surely call for something other than a glamour gal----so, (dating myself now), can we not resurrect Fay Bainter (of Mrs. Wiggs & the Cabbage Patch))   Anyone recall her---Oh, how bitterwsweet when she took her family to the Grand Ole Opry--and then her house burned down.

Probably around 1948 or so---the film. Who knows about the fictional house---tears flowed copiously.

Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Big Mick at work
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 06:22 PM

Dani, I am with you. Overall I enjoyed the book, with some reservations. It had some problems but overall I thought the mental imagery to be superb.

I find it to not be useful to judge a movie based on casting. I prefer to see it and then judge the way the roles were played. Kidman and Zellweger certainly have strong women roles in them, it remains to be seen what they will do with these characters.

So much will depend on the screenplay. That is where the letdown usually comes for me. This book demands that you want to follow it where it is leading. That is what makes it a bit of a hard read. Those types of works are very difficult to translate into a screenplay. When done right, they are superb. More often than not they fail. I am hopeful that I will be happy, but I don't expect it.

Tim O'Brien.....Songs from the Mountain......does it get any better than this? His rendition of Hard Times, despite not being long enough, might be as good as it gets. Same with Angel Band.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: LadyJean
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 01:41 AM

I had a look at the book. One of the female characters put on a pair of her husband's pants, and I stopped believing in her. A nineteenth century woman wouldn't have done that anymore than I would take my shirt off on a hot day.
"Cold Mountain" was about modern people in funny clothes. I wasn't interested.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: BanjoRay
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:00 AM

LadyJean - some of the Victorian mountaineering ladies, accompanied by alpine guides, used to set off in skirts then change into trousers once they were past the last dwelling. Many women have always been practical, whenever they lived.
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Folkie
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:12 AM

What about all the songs where a girl puts on man's attire and follows her lover to sea or to the wars? Most of them date from Napoleonic times and must have been based on real events.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:31 AM

I can't speak for anyone else.... but if my husband were gone, and his trousers were all I had, I'd be inclined to put them on just to be close to him. I think that was what Frazier was going for. My take was that he wrote a period story that would appeal to a modern audience.

Reform Dress was a hot women's lib topic in the 1860s. It involved trousers under a knee-length dress.

Nicole Kidman just doesn't fit the image I had of Ada. She's WAY too pretty and doesn't have enough grit.

I'll say it again. If you want to read a great period story with believable characters and extraordinary writing, read The Black Flower by Howard Bahr. It's available at Amazon, Borders, Barnes & Noble, anywhere fine books are sold.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: PeteBoom
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:55 AM

"A nineteenth century woman wouldn't have done that anymore than I would take my shirt off on a hot day."

Sorry - not true. There are several instances of women going so far as to enlist in both sides of that particular militant disagreement and serving at the front. A friend of mine, seriously into history for its own sake, found herself drawn into re-enacting. She researched a couple of these women and went so far as to portray them and act as a "historic interpreter."

One woman (I've forgotten her name and unit, although I believe she was with a New York regiment) enlisted and served for three years. She was "discovered" in a field hospital after being wounded... the third time.   

Regards -

Pete

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:50 AM

I don't think I've seen any mention in any review of the book, but I found it full of subtle references to Irish/Celtic mythology, maybe in the same way that the Irish music was adapted by the Appalachian settlers over time, the stories were nicely adapted, altered to fit the context of the novel. certainly not a masterpiece of literature, but good fiction. I look forward to reading Black Flower, and I'll let you know what I think of it then. Maybe some time I'll drag Cold Mountain out again and write up the references to Celtic myths I come across, would like to hear Frazier's comments on this.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Burke
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:56 AM

Yesterday the ALABAMA ARTS RADIO SERIES had Joey Brackner interviewing David Ivey and Tim Eriksen about Sacred Harp Singing in the Movie Cold Mountain. Musical examples are included in the program.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:03 PM

George Sand (1840s?) wore men's clothing. Certainly some 19th c. pioneer women wore pants or 'overhalls' while working or riding.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Kim C
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:16 PM

Q, in one of my books there is a photo of a working woman wearing the Reform Dress. It never really caught on, partly because it was - well, unattractive, really - but there is some documentation of women wearing it around the farm.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: MAG
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:20 PM

In his memiors, Ezra Meeker, a long-lived pioneer on the Oregon Trail, said that "Modesty died early" on the Trail -- that invariably all the women wore bloomers from the second day or so. So all those WESTERN movies with women in long full dresses were wrong ...

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:23 AM

I'm well aware of the reformers, including Dr. Mary Walker, who always wore men's clothes, and held a comission in the Union Army.
I'm also aware that, in the 1930s, my mother felt the need to sneak up the back stairs so the minister wouldn't see she was wearing slacks. There's this thing called convention, you see.
I'm told women go topless at the Michigan Womyn's Music Festival. I wouldn't. It might be more comfortable, but it wouldn't be what I'm used to.
It bothers me to see Muslim women in veils. I'd hate wearing something like that. But I understand they would be even less comfortable unveiled.
My sister enjoys what we used to call "primitive camping", no plumbing at all. She prefers full skirts for this, because it's easier to relieve herself in the woods. I had a similar experience in France, the land of the coed urinal.
Writing historical fiction, it's tempting to give characters modern sensibilities. It's tough to like Jack Aubrey when he has one of his crew flogged. But I admire O'Brian for not taking the easy way out, and making Jack a 20th century man.
A nineteenth century character without at least SOME nineteenth century prejudices is not believable. Even the reformers could be absurdly conventional in their outlook.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: BanjoRay
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 07:32 PM

You can hear samples of all the tracks here. What do you think, guys?
Cheers
Ray

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Matt_R
Date: 14 Dec 03 - 09:23 PM

Jack White is the freakin' MAN. I can't wait to see him in the movie, even though he only plays a bit part as a guy who plays a banjo made out of a pumpkin!

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GLoux
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 01:58 PM

Sounds good...I am delighted to hear great clawhammer banjo and NO bluegrass banjo (bluegrass wasn't around back then). Like Riley said, it's not hard-core old-time, but it's good.

Too bad the clips are only 30 seconds each...I'm looking forward to seeing the movie, but I'm wondering if I should pick up the soundtrack when it is released tomorrow.

-Greg

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:59 AM

I actually got the CD yesterday (Dec 15) at Strawberry's. They had it in the back room still in the shipping carton, ready I guess to put on the shelf on the 16th.

Anyway, it was a birthday gift for my husband, who was TRANSFIXED by the music! It's really wonderful. I only half-heard it as background (we had company) but will give it a serious listen as soon as I can. The poor guy visiting us had to maintain two simultaneous conversations, one with me talking about various things and one with Frank interjecting and exclaiming about this or that song on the CD with a glazed look in his eye.

I had much trouble getting into the book, and finally gave up, which puts it in the same category as the only two other books I gave up on: James Joyce's Ulysses and Colleen McCullough's Third Millenium. Very good company, I'm told.

But I intend to see the movie and also give the book another try.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Burke
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:01 PM

I was going to ask for it for Christmas. I already own recordings by Tim Eriksen, Riley Baugus, and Alison Kraus. I have more Sacred Harp recordings than anyone needs. The samples from the Gabriel Yared pieces didn't interest me.

So do I want to buy it for Cassie Franklin & Jack White? Or is this CD really for the person who does not already know about this kind of music?

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM

I don't want to suggest that women in large numbers were running round in trousers in the mid 19th century..However it was far more common than we have been lead to believe. Many farming and sea faring women made their own versions of trousers for many reasons...comfort, affordability, and safety. I have a picture in my office of five women making hay in Eastern Canaada in 1866..they are all wearing homemade trousers. It would be interesting to know more about this topic..would it not. A subject far more appealing than the book which, to be honest, I found awfully stilted and melodramatic.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Burke
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 06:09 PM

I've heard from a couple of people who have been to previews. They didn't mention the actors. They are giving it high marks for historical accuracy so far as the war is concerned. Also rating it as a good movie.

Some people may want to cover their eyes during the big battle scene.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 08:30 PM

Jack White, whom I hadn't heard of before, is very good on this CD. The other favorites of mine are the song by the Reeltime Travelers and the Elvis Costello (!) song "Scarlet Tide" sung by Alison Krauss. The backup musicians are such people as Norman & Nancy Blake, Suart Duncan, Mike Compton and others. Very good music, and the movie is supposed to be excellent, according to many people. I'm looking forward to seeing this one, and I only go to the movies about every 5 years...

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,michael01612
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:12 AM

I was watching a Discovery Channel documentary of the movie Cold Mountain and learned that the song "Bonaparte Crossing The Rhine" is in the movie. Played on a fiddle there, banjo here.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=3240&alid=-1

Happy Holidays,

Mike

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Big Mick
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 11:47 AM

The problem with those of you that think it was miscast is that you are making your judgements before you see the movie. That is because you can't separate how you see them, as opposed to waiting to see if they can pull it off. They are actors, why not wait and see if they act it out and then make your pronouncements. It seems to me that to judge before seeing the performance is something that you would not like to happen to you in your musical careers.

I will wait to see how this comes off, then I will rate it out.

Mick

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 02:02 PM

The local newspaper printed a review if the film today, with summaries from half a dozen other papers as well. None mentioned the music.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Dani
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 04:10 PM

Well said, Mick. I've been trying to teach my girls the difference this way: "you're NOT in love with Johnny Depp -- you're in love with Jack Sparrow!!"

Dani

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 04:16 PM

You're right, Mick... but I'm still skeptical. ;-) Anyhow I will rent it when it comes out on DVD.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: MAG
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:43 PM

If you think Kidman can't play ugly, you didn't see her as Virginia in *The Hours.* I wish she'd shut up about her private life, but she can act.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 10:33 PM

Sounds like ditch the movie, buy the CD. Be damned if I can't figure out why they couldn't have filmed it in Great Smokey Mountain National Park or Shenandoah National Park and used the Shen Valley for much of the flatland scenes.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 12:08 AM

The director and Kidman and Law of Cold Mountain were on Charlie Rose the other night. The director said they went to the actual battlefield and photographed everything, and took measurements of the physical configuration and then replicated everything in Romania. I did't get to see the whole show so if I don't know if they talked about the music; they didn't while I was watching.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: van lingle
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 06:04 AM

There is a feature coming up in this hour on music from the film on the NPR news show Morning Edition. Merry Xmas, vl.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 06:18 AM

In England anyway, Victorian working women routinely wore trousers; there was a book a few years ago about a man who had the hots for them and took lots of photos of crossing-sweepers, road labourers and farmworkers in their trousers. *Big* women.

Subject: RE: Cold Mountain
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 03:38 PM

I saw the movie last night. Incredibly powerful. Yes, it's a good movie but I had a VERY tough time with all the graphic violence, not to mention a very tough time comprehending what people do and did to each other during war and during everyday life.

Renne Zellweger gives an amazing performance and deserves the nomination for best (supporting) actress. All the acting was very good, but somehow Nicole Kidman was just too beautiful, even during scenes with no makeup and swollen red eyes. Not her fault, of course. Jude Law's beauty somehow didn't bother me!

The music was incidental but very appropriate in the movie. There are a few songs on the soundtrack that I don't remember hearing in the movie, but that could be because of the gripping drama. The best song (in my opinion) was Scarlet Tide sung by Alison Krauss, and that doesn't happen until a few minutes into the final credits, so most people were not in the theater to hear it.

I'd like to see portions of this movie again, but probably couldn't do so unless I could fast-forward past the truly disturbing scenes, of which there were many. (Tears started shortly after the beginning and lasted intermittently to the end). Glad I went to see this, glad I have the soundtrack. So sorry I can't deny the horror of stories like this.