Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:14 PM

Someone who is close enough to a songwriter to tell them when a song needs changing, can be as much a co-writer as if they actually wrote alternate verses. What Paul McCartney has been up against is, not having that; or rather not having John Lenon to do that for him.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

Even the Babe didn't bat a thousand. I don't really care if songs I like are profound or not. "Wild Mountain Thyme" (on occasion Time) is beautiful. The Irish song "Maggie" can get a tear outta me because it grabs my heart. The Italian "Io Vagabondo" is touching. "Baby Blue" by Badfinger just plain rocks. Dylan's "Hard Rain" is deeply moving. "I Want to Hold Your Hand" speaks to the desire every teenager has--OK, you know what I mean, it ain't the hand but it IS. "Farewell to Nova Scotia" works. None of these are profound. Now, much of the poetry of Ezra Pound is profound. Problem is, I don't understand it. The songs above I understand. Nothing profound about "Maybelline" or "Roll Over Beethoven", but they are damn good. And sometime give a listen to The Royal Scots Dragoon Guards rendition of "Amazing Grace" or Kenny Rogers' "Twenty Years Ago." They are all lots of things, but I don't see that profound has to enter into it.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

Aha.....so if we don't defend The Frog Song, it will automatically mean the first part of your observation was also correct?????????

No way Hosea! I know you only referred to the majority of their output as crap, people disagreeing with you does not mean they misread you?

Did.t you even raise a smile at Parky, Ali and Kenny Lynch on the album cover...ahhhh those heady days of 12 inches.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:04 PM

Lilo Lil: You're on the wrong thread for that talk of "heady days and 12 inches."

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 03 - 09:08 PM

Ebbie - like I said, it's all a matter of opinion. Keep on keepin' on.

Raggytash - "Maybe I'm Amazed" by Sir Paul was, in my opinion the best thing he'd done since leaving The Beatles. After that, it was all downhill........

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:47 AM

"Mull of Kintyre" was great, too.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Gurney
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:58 AM

I have a collection of most of the Beatles music, and a fair amount of Mozart, too, all collected after I was already into 'folk.' My opinion, and we are all talking about our opinions, is that they were among the very best songwriters ever in their genre. Their arrangements in particular were remarkable, and I've never heard anyone, up to and including the NY Philharmonic, who did one of their pieces better, or with more impact, anyway.

As to whether they will become folk, I've been at a festival where in one of the sessions aftertime, someone got out the Beatles songbook and started playing the tunes (Not especially easy) and all 40 or so people there knew the words. About 1999.
If you can access the book, try it. It was a great session.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:33 AM

Brucie, take a pair of scissors, some Scotch tape and a book of traditional Scottish songs and you can 'compose' Mull of Kintyre. I suggest you start with 'Dream Angus'.
Jim

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:50 AM

Lilo Lil,
Your response is exactly what I was trying to avoid, you do not have to "defend the Frog song" I am merely putting forward the thesis that if you or I had walked into a publishing studio with that as material we would have not got past the Commissar never mind gained access to a recording studio with animated video facilities.
What I am saying that although Lennon/MCCartney produced some great work they also produced a good deal of c**p, if as a fan of the Beatles you find this hard or impossible to accept
I am sorry if I upset you.
With the exception of Guest who puts forward "Maybe I'm Amazed" I have still to get a list of decent material produced by McCartney since the split, I refer Brucie to Jim McClean contribution

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:21 AM

"...take a pair of scissors, some Scotch tape and a book of traditional Scottish songs and you can 'compose' Mull of Kintyre"

I'd doubt if that's actually true - but if it was, what's wrong with that? Some idea that if music and songs aren't off-this-planet original they are useless, and that for a new song to grow out of old songs means it's worth nothing?

I'd be inclined to say that that kind of thinking isn't what folk music is about. Or indeed, music in general.

.....

As for the Frog Song:

"Win or lose, sink or swim,
One thing is certain we'll never give in,
Side by side, hand in hand, we all stand together..."

Nothing wrong with that. It's not high art or portentious, but it's true, thank God.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: sweetfire
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:32 AM

Yellow Submarine was cool! When i was about 10 that is.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Raggytash
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:16 AM

Sweetfire darling, Yellow Submarine was released about 1996/7 you DAD may have been about 10 at the time

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:10 AM

Any chance of getting back to the original question? i.e. Lennon/McCartney songs that they gave to other people to sing first?

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Ringo Starr
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:14 AM

How come no one has mentioned me?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Pete Best
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:27 AM

Or me?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

McGrath, new songs growing from old songs, usually over a period of time, is the folk process. Cherry picking melodic parts from trad songs to make highly commercial material with lyrics of dubious merit is not.
Jim

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Alice
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:02 AM

The BEATLES - four geniuses who happened to find each other and collaborate with a synergy that brought out the best in them. Sad that it could not go on for years longer.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:07 AM

Raggytash........I too was not born in the sixties, and do not consider them as my "heroes", I just found your statement that "a good deal" of their output was crap, a tad over the top.

And can not see the relevance between Macca's solo efforts and the Beatles' repertoire.....why would/should they be of similar quality/importance,call it what you will.

And the music business is a money making business, as are many others, The Frog Song made them money..........love it or hate it, those croaky little chaps made the books balance.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:28 AM

I was 10 or 11 in 1962 when "Please Please Me" came out. I can remember my feelings at the time very well. Bear in mind that all the "popular" music we heard was on one Radio channel, the BBC Light Programme,and if you wanted non-stop pop you had to tune in to Radio Luxembourg (which came on the air at 7pm from Luxembourg in Europe, and depended a lot on the weather and time of year for signal quality.) There was a great deal of American pop music at the time: Elvis was just about respectable enough for the Beeb, you could hear a lot of US pop on AFN (American Forces' Network, from Germany I think), British "rockers" like Tommy Steele modelled themselves on Americans, and all those musicals -- South Pacicific, Oklahoma, Guys And Dolls -- had hit the cinemas recently.

I'd felt for a couple of years that it was time we got some proper home-grown music, and the Beatles were like a breath of fresh air. Of course, I know now that they modelled their early stuff on Buddy Holly's style, but funnily enough I don't actually remember Buddy. Anyway, it wasn't Art or Music with captial letters -- it was just fab!

Steve

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM

Thanks, Jim I'll do that. I still like the song, though. Thought the production was great.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Fossil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:52 AM

Well, I WAS not only born well before the sixties, but was at college when the Flower Power/Summer of Love Revolution happened, with soundtrack by the Fabs and a whole lot of other very good bands who were all feeding off each other and driving each other to new creative heights. A good time to have been young, alive and a musician. Probably the most innovative period in popular music that there has ever been. Certainly, however good some songwriting has been since, there has been nothing to touch the sheer creativity of the time. And the Beatles were, quite simply, the "toppermost of the poppermost", the ones who took the lead, style-setters, gurus, Yoko and all. And when you look at the synthesised crap that passes for popular music these days (don't get me started.....). If it wasn't for new artistes like Thea Gilmore, I'd be in despair, I really would. And yes, I teach my guitar student kids "Ob-la-Di" and "Yellow Submarine", they love it! Of course the music will last, it's that good.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:46 PM

They have already transcended their generation. I was born in '66 and I am a great fan. My son, who was born in '89 and my daughter born in '92 steal my Beatles CDs all the time. My son is learning to play guitar (left-handed) so that he can play their songs for himself.

They were instrumental in launching many other acts through Apple Studios.

They inspired other youngsters to come forward with their music (even if they deny this it is quite apparent from their songs who they took the lead from.) They (including George and Ringo)have all continued to write and bring forth new music, art, film and other projects (right up to the point of their deaths for John and George).

Can we say the same about Mozart?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:26 PM

Can we say the same about Mozart

Of course we can.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Lilo Lil
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:29 PM

"Oh No We Can't".................sorry panto season getting to me.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:30 PM

So subjective I can't believe I'm typing this. The music world is as populated with solo-Mac songs as it is with Beatle-Mac stuff:
Waterfalls
Put it there
Ebony & Ivory (song of the year 1981-ish)
Band on the Run
Mrs Vanderbilt
No more lonely nights
Live and Let Die, et cetera

And I believe the argument should be tempered with "I think these songs are crap/great/indifferent"

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:14 PM

In answer to Peter's original question, I think that this is a full list of Lennon/McCartney songs that were given to other artists (but I'm happy to be corrected). The dates are the initial release years by the artist concerned. I've not included songs such as 'I Call Your Name' or 'I Wanna Be Your Man' which were initially recorded by someone else, but later done by The Beatles themselves. Hope that this is of interest.

Ed

The Applejacks
Like Dreamers Do (1964)

Badfinger
Come and Get It (1969)

Chris Barber Band
Catcall (1967) Instrumental. This tune is known as 'Catswalk' in most Beatle biographies

Cilla Black
Love Of The Loved (1963)
It's For You (1964)
Step Inside Love (1968)

Black Dyke Mills Band
Thingumybob (1968) Instrumental

The Fourmost
Hello Little Girl (1963)
I'm In Love (1963)

Mary Hopkin
Goodbye (1969)

Billy J Kramer and the Dakotas
I'll Be On My Way (1963)
Bad To Me (1963)
I'll Keep You Satisfied (1963)
From A Window (1964)

Peter and Gordon
World Without Love (1964)
Nobody I Know (1964)
I Don't Want To See You Again (1964)
Woman (1966)

PJ Proby
That Means A Lot (1965)

Tommy Quickly
Tip Of My Tongue (1963)

The Strangers with Mike Shannon
One And One Is Two (1964)

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:34 PM

Excellent Ed. Do you know if Harrison wrote 'Badge' recorded by Cream?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ed.
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:52 PM

TheBigPinkLad,

To quote from George Harrion's autobiography (I Me Mine):

"I co-wrote Badge with Eric Clapton"

and further on:

"Later Ringo came in - he was absolutely plastered - and we were up to the lines:

I told you not to drive around in the dark
I told you...

- And Ringo said:

...about the swans that live in the park

It's a bit silly, but that's what happened, folks."

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peter T.
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 08:18 AM

Thanks, Ed, you are a scholar and a gentleman. Did Lennon and McCartney really write "Nobody I Know"?

(Interesting they wrote something for Chris Barber).

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 11:12 AM

When I trod the boards with Stonnall Players a few years back, I discovered that Madam Producer, Sheila Pritchard, had been tutored in chemistry at Uni by Chris Barber's mum, in the 60s. Isn't it a small world?

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:34 AM

I believe that the best Beatles discs were "Revolver" and "the Beatles" (umm... White Album, that is.) "SGt. Pepper" happens to be one of their worst, save for Lennon's "A Day in the Life" (McCartney ONLY helped on the mid-section!), and Harrison's "Within You, Without You" (no one else did a bleedin' thing on that!)

: )~

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 11:52 PM

Isn't the fact that we're still discussing The Beatles in the big shiny 21st century testimony to the effect they had on music and popular culture? If they were truly crap, we'd all have forgotten about them...In fact, i would never have heard of them at all, being so youthfull and all :0)

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 01:41 AM

"Maybe I'm Amazed" by Sir Paul was, in my opinion the best thing he'd done since leaving The Beatles. After that, it was all downhill........

Except he did that before leaving the Beatles.

What's wrong with Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey? Venus and Mars/Rock Show? Band on the Run?

I'll get me coat....

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 01:48 AM

Loved the rawness of their earlier work. I was quite uh, how does one say this, uh, ya know, changing spark plugs near Pluto when I heard SPLHCB for the first time. If I recall, it was the first record to cost over a million dollars. I ate at LEAST ten dozen Sara Lee cakes listening to that album.

My favourites? Many and varied. Too many to list.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Ooh-Aah2
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 02:16 AM

I was born more than a year after they broke up, and for me they will always be the best band ever. No band around now comes within lightyears.
          Trenchantly,   Ooh-Aah.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 02:26 AM

They were the ONLY band that influenced me when I first started out about ten years ago. I will spend my lifetime trying to write and sing as well as them...

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 06:34 PM

Fifty Years, this year,
since the animated film Yellow Submarine was released.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 07:50 PM

Congrats to Ed for actually answering the original poster's question.
Can I add "I Call Your Name" - Billy J Kramer (although it was probably taken from the Beatles EP)

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,Eric
Date: 24 Oct 18 - 11:33 PM

For the record, it was not a British invasion, it was a Beatles invasion.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Johnny J
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 03:50 AM

It'll soon be time for the Christmas shopping....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 09:26 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8

Ah, they don't write 'em like they used to.

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: Johnny J
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 11:39 AM

Maybe just as well.

Just realised I forgot to create the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsC4BHPuKE8

Subject: RE: Lennon/McCartney -- who are these guys?
From: BobKnight
Date: 25 Oct 18 - 05:39 PM

Everybody seems to have forgotten, "Do You Want To Know A Secret," Billy J. Kramer and the Dakotas. Great pop song.