Is modern music shite?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Mooh
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 11:27 AM

Had the recent privilege of singing a modern choral setting for a psalm, accompanied by a dual chamber Casavant pipe organ. I thought it was brilliant.

Had a visit from a singer/songwriter who is just coming out with several songs which are written in the style of 60's folk meets Ani Defranco. Topical, and brilliant.

Have recently acquired cds from The Creeking Tree String Quartet, Das Macht Show, Phil Cooper, Radim Zenkle, among others. No shite there.

If you've got a problem with what you hear, tune in to something else. The trouble with today is it's so easy for anyone to produce and market music, and there's so much to hear that one must wade through some shite to find the gems. Shite obviously is in the ear of the beholder.

Popular radio appeals to the masses of less discerning listeners perhaps, but twas ever thus, don't take it personally. I happen to take pride in being of unpopular tastes.

I live in a radio wasteland where only the CBC can rise above the swill of shallow, lifeless, meaningless, musical pablum. Oh well, I also don't agree with mainstream politics, economic policy, or war.

Welcom to the fringe.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Cluin
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 10:36 AM

No.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Sweetfia
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 09:45 AM

OH MY GOD! Are you bein serious? 'Modern music' is not shite, it's just not what you used to listen to when ya was younger. If ya think it's shite it's cause ya gettin old! *grin*

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Snuffy
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 09:39 AM

"Weila Weila" for instance, which is a song with no discernable redeeming features as far as I'm concerned.

"Weila Weila" is a variant of "The Cruel Mother" which has survived in the tradition, so I think Professor Child might have disagreed with you

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Grab
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 09:33 AM

Ah, another thread from the trOll from the Hole... I'll second Dr Quelch on the spelling side too. Re-reading what you've typed before you hit the "submit" button really *isn't* that hard, and if you know you're bad at spelling then you've got no excuse.

Personal rule - the person who owns the car controls the music. If you're rude to them, you can walk!

Sure, there's crap music out there. Always has been. As someone aged 35, you will have been through the whole 80s music thing (I'm 30, so I remember it well too). There were great bands then like Dire Straits and Queen, but there was also plenty of crap too. Same as now. Even trad-wise, there's plenty of crap - "Weila Weila" for instance, which is a song with no discernable redeeming features as far as I'm concerned.

Rap "hasn't got a tune"? Well hell, how long did it take to work that one out?! At a folk festival in the summer, there were poetry and drumming workshops - not much tune there either. Hint: try listening to the words of rap, because the good ones have words that are worth listening to, and are every bit as poetic as lyrics from Bob Dylan or Leonard Cohen.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:42 AM

No, modern music is not shite. Commercial radio is shite. There's lots of great music being made and recorded, but it's just not being played on the radio. And, ya know what? That's nothing new. It's been the status quo for years.

Just as an example, how many "hit" songs did Led Zeppelin have during their career? Two. Nowadays you can't listen to a "classic rock" station for thirty minutes without hearing a Zep song but that airplay didn't even start happening until after the band had broken up.   Those of us who listened to them in '69 knew they were good. Their albums sold like hotcakes. But the radio stations wouldn't play them. Why? Because they were too busy playing shite.

Yeah, the Beatles, Stones and a few other decent groups that were deemed acceptable to the radio station owners got plenty of airplay back then, but the more "underground" groups were shut out entirely. If you wanted to hear them you had to buy their albums. It's just the same today. The underground's where the good music's being made, but you've gotta pay for it. The stuff they're giving away for free on the radio is always gonna be shite.

Bruce

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 12:33 AM

To Poppagator-

either one. As was pointed out to Alice, "A word means what I want it to mean. No morw and no less."

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:51 PM

I think Grand Ole Opry is much better.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: jimmyt
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:31 PM

John I agree. 'cept that I think modern opera is grand, don't you?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,moonglow
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:20 PM

It depends entirely upon what kind of music it is (yes there are different kinds). And whether it's shite or not depends on your definition.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:08 PM

A thoughtful response, Helen, and I agree about the melody/lyric dichotomy, and I too fall on the side of melody. I like all music in which I recognise the structure, which precludes rap and free jazz. I think it is the sheer repetition that annoys the shite out of me. Recently, I was spellbound by Dido's going down with the ship business, because it is folk, and it struck the personal chord it was meant to, but having heard it repeated 16 times a day until it left Number 1, I have grown heartily sick of it. Now they're beating the next Dido single to death. So that's my beef, repetition ad nauseum.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: PoppaGator
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:11 PM

Isn't *what* word a better alternative than "folk"?

Modern? Shite?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:07 PM

A modest proposal: Even if you don't agree with the word, isn't it a better alternative than "folk"?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Helen
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 04:08 PM

For 20-30 years now I have been listening to Triple_J (a pop/rock alternative radio station, government owned, trying to provide antidotes to the run-of-the-mill top-40 stuff, although they also have a lot to do with the ABC-TV station's Rage programme which runs from midnight to early morning on Fridays & Saturdays and the Saturday morning show runs on until about 11am with top-40 stuff).


I have been wondering myself, over the last few months, whether I am finally getting old in my taste in music. Let me tell you first that my absolute favourite album is called Leftism by a techno-percussion group called Leftfield. They are brilliant, and the more I listen to it the more complexities I hear in it. The whole thing is based on African polyrhythms. My other absolute favourite album set is the Complete Sacred Choral Music of Vivaldi. Apart from those two I have every type of music in my collection.


But, in the last few months the melodies have almost totally disappeared. There is this talking/rapping rambling - which I cannot understand- I don't know if it is related to my dyslexia, or just that I am more visual than aural. I have said this before in Mudcat that I have a theory that some people like their music mostly based on the music/melody/harmony/arrangements etc (like me) and some people like it mostly based on the lyrics (like my hubby) which for me explains why he really likes Bob Dylan & Leonard Cohen & why I can't stand either of them - well the majority of their stuff - unless someone else sings it/plays it because, for instance, I can't stand LC's 3-note melodies or his singing voice. I'll admit he has improved to some degree in that department over the years.

So, enough of the preamble, I have found lately that where I used to listen to Triple-J rather a lot, now I have to turn it off. Hubby plays it more or less non-stop in the house, and has it as the station of choice on his clock radio alarm, so lying there trying to catch my last half hour of dozing/meditating prior to the mad rush of the day, I find it totally impossible even to think while it is on.

The worst, the absolute worst, is when someone decides that they can "improve" on a fantastically good song with sampling of the original, like the O Brother Where Art Thou song (is it Man of Constant Sorrow?) or Joe Cocker's Marjorine by totally riding roughshod over the melody and arrangement using thumping, non-musical beats. It starts out sounding okay and goes downhill from there.

That is why I now listen to the Classic-FM station because at least there is real music and some complexity to it.

Helen

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Firecat
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:34 PM

Erm, I'm gonna have to stick up for modern music, IE 80's, 90s and 00s. As far as I'm concerned, I love it! And the only time I listen Radio 1 is to listen to the Top 40, but 9 times out of 10 I go to a different chart. I love Busted, Blue, Westlife, Rachel Stevens and *ducks* Eminem.

Dido's really good too.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Peace
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 03:22 PM

I have heard this stuff before. I think it was my mom who asked how I could listen to crap like "Hard Rain" by Dylan, or "Blowin' in the Wind." Of course, we'd just finished with an era of things like "Flyin' Purple People Eater" and eventually we got into "Kung Fu Fighting". I think every era has produced its share of crap. But musicians have the ability to find the stuff they like, and that is way far cool.

I work with teenagers. I am always surprised when little Johnny likes rap, then two days later comes in saying, "Hey, Mr Murdoch, you should hear this!" Kid hauls out "Summer of '69" by Bryan Adams. We were the same at that age: lookin' for what we liked. I have trust in the kids today. I read what's on the Mudcat, realize we are older now (some of us), and we were just like the kids we see around us thirty, forty, fifty years ago. We turned out OK. I think they will, too.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Joe_F
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:45 PM

I seem to have been born an old fart. I pretty much inherited my parents' tastes, and popular music, for me, stopped about 1940. Internally I divide what has been coming out of the loudspeakers in my lifetime into two broad periods: Gangster Sleaze and Mechanized Tantrums.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 02:45 PM

Many years ago I walked into my grandad's house. He was about 80 at the time (long stiff now)and deaf as a plumb-bob. He had some Oompah-oompah military music cranked on the radio. He was marching up and down the living room with a broom shank over his shoulder. (it's not so wierd, did you never look in the mirror and sing into your hair-brush? ;o)

Anyway, he was a bit embarrased but pointed out that 'his music' was a lot better than 'that shite yer Dad used to listen to" which tweaked my curiosity (ouch!) as I was suffering at the time from my old man's "turn that crap off!" rant concerning a certain Pink Floyd.

"What crap was that Grandad?" I ventured.

"Bloody loud, can't tell what they're singing, blah-blah-blah music" he said. Turns out he my old man was into Swing. That Glen Miller was a rad, hey?

p.s. jOhn ... run away from the crstiens, utumutly they want you're sole.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:37 PM

although much modern music IS shite, so are many of the comments about it...(or maybe I just haven't had enough cans in)

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: AggieD
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:35 PM

Don't fall into the trap of being a music Nazi.

Musical appreciation is personal - one person's crap is another person's tuna.

I find the off button is usually the best way to deal with anything I don't like.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: John Robinson (aka Cittern)
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:17 PM

At 43 I now find myself engineering/producing two ragtime guitarits and a punk band.

Keep a broad mind, that's what I reckon.

All the best
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 12:06 PM

To respond to the original question,

No more than it has ever been.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:48 AM

Well, seems to me that if jOhn9 doesn't like it, that makes it 'shite, rubbish and crap'. Just my opinion, tho.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:45 AM

Interesting hypothesis - but there's a ton of money to be made from copyright infringement lawsuits. It's all about the money, and I believe they are going after people to recoup some of the billions of dollars in revenue they must be losing to copyright infringement.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:48 AM

Hypothesis:

Suppose those weekly news stories where record companies are cracking down on downloading are complete sham.

Suppose the record companies via their own on-line systems are downloadnng their own stuff (quickly erased) for the phony publicity.

What would be the advantage?

Creat the illusion that the "music" is worth the effort and memory (both in cheap supply).

Maintain an illusion that keeps radio stations from changing formats to news/country, etc.

Each airplay, even of the most abhorrent material, generates revenue.

I know this scenario has seen ink, but the more we suppose, the more
we (taxpayers) can save. In USA, taxpayers underwrite the grammys.

Just a thought.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Beverley Barton
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:39 AM

The tuning process for the Tuna is the same as that for the banjo, ie hurl it into the nearest skip and run away

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: C-flat
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:35 AM

How do you tuna fish anyway?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:13 AM

Cripes, we've been rumbled. We would've got away with it, too, if Oakley hadn't slipped on the whelks.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Beverley Barton
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:09 AM

Prince? skipjack? Do I detect a tuna fish consiparcy here?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 10:02 AM

as much as I hate to admit it, I think that most musical innovations come from pop music. Just look at what The Beatles did to expand the horizons of pop. For a more current example, the last time I heard something innovative it was off a Prince song.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:57 AM

Seconded, B#, and very well observed. I shared the same angst era, and was mortified after dragging my father in front of the telly to observe Status Quo rocking. He asked me if I realised what they were doing. My answer was not correct, and he declared that they were 'masturbating'. I didn't think he knew about that.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Dr. Quelch
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:43 AM

jOhn from `Ull,
                Could do better.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: C-flat
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:40 AM

I don't think we're meant to get it. Every generation wants their own music to express themselves through. They know that anyone over 25 knows nothing about how they feel or what makes them tick because we're all stupid. So why would they possibly want to find any pleasure in sharing the same sort of music as us old farts?
I've learned to go back and re-visit music I would have dismissed out of hand as a youngster and some of what I love now, I would have hated then. That's not just true of music either. Given time they will broaden their outlook and be more encompassing in their attitudes but it's true to say that we all hold a special place in our hearts for the first music we could call "ours".
I'm glad my time for teenage angst was in the late sixties and early seventies, I think there was some great music that came from that era but we also had our fair share of SH**** and my Dad just didn't get it! Tsk!

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:30 AM

you are totally right about modern music and its similarity to faecal matter, with the exception of the White Stripes and Coral who are OK. And our Kate likes the Darkness.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: greg stephens
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:29 AM

JOhn I've got some evan jelly neighbours and they do like cans(and cigs) so you stick out for money and drink. They love tambourines I imagine, though ive never been to one of their rituals in case they baptise me or something.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,50 Cent
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:28 AM

Eric, how could you! I have suffered for my art!

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,JOSHUA BACH
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:24 AM

L.V.Beethoven,
             No, I am Joshua from the Bacharach line but there was insufficient space in the heading section!.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:21 AM

Oh and by the way I agree, it is shite speshly that rap crap,
eric

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:19 AM

Well you certainly got a good bite from Dr. Quelch jOhn, the whole thread has got me in pain with laughter.
eric

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Ludwig Van Beethoven
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:16 AM

It certainly would Joshua, you young pup! Are you related to that awful Johann and Carl? All that widdly widdly harpsichord stuff. Yuk!

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,JOSHUA BACH
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 09:13 AM

Modern Music??? Would the efforts of Sir Harrison Bertwhistle come under this heading?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Andrew
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 08:28 AM

Yes it is, but be thankful. If they dropped Pop Idol and replaced it with Folk Idol it wouln't take them long to turn Folk into shite too. I'd much rather a set of Northumbrian pipes, even if they squeek occasionally, than Northumbrian Ant and Dec who squeek all the time.


Andrew

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:08 AM

i rember -brid widder is play music in a cherch band, so she knows about this kind of thing,
i might go to that bible blokes band, but if he try to rip me off, i will punch his face, i dont like to ripped off, nobody does anyway.
i will tell him a tenner, and a few cans, then i be happy.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: ossonflags
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 06:01 AM

It all went wrong after Alma Cogan died.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:40 AM

it its no drinking, i'm not going, i tell him 2stick your band, big rip off2,
but if he gives me a few pints i will go, i should tel him i got a whistle and tambourine as well, i reckon december will be there busy time, could be quite cushy, i;m not doing it for nowt though.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: fogie
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:38 AM

I've tried in a limited way to see what the present radio 1 / TOTP generation like about run of the mill NOW-music, and for the life of me I cant appreciate the vast majority of it. I hear pale imitations of what was going on in the 60s and 70s and mind-numbing drum machine beats, which seem to totally preclude thinking. I presume the Raves I missed in the 90s may be to blame, and I dont like Rapping. The melodies are not very memorable, and it's years since I've heard anything I was interested in. Occasionally there's a gap in the clouds, like Maisy Gray's voice which is unusual, and the rare pop-song which is sufferable, but I think the Pop medium is burnt out, and am happy to stick to Folk Roots Fusion Jazz and Classical. As a matter of interest the same accusation might be levelled at Modern Jazz, and Modern Classical. I think I was priveleged to grow up in an era, of Childrens Favourites, and The Sixties. There is bound to be a new idea arising musically, but how long we will have to wait is an unknown. Roll on the day.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:34 AM

heloo skipack-some bible people like a drink, ie get a few cans in, have a good bear session etc, do you knoew which ones?
does evanjellycal people have a drink?

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: GUEST,Skipjack K8
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:29 AM

I think it's a splendid idea, jOhn, and you should accept the position without honorarium. I look forward to you embracing the Church, but don't let them cure you of that healthy scepticism of yours. The Good Book needed Thomas to try an expose the Resurrection as a rip-off.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:25 AM

waht happens to the collection money then?
they should give it to the band, and we get some cans in.

Subject: RE: Is modern music shite?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 05:20 AM

oh, sorry skipack, feel free to sawp swap shite for crap, or rubish, [how you spell ribbish, 1b or 2 bs?
anyway, i been shopsing, i se a christmas decoration, =a couple of bits of wood, and bit of tinsel=10 nloody quid, they must think im bllody stupif!

anyway= I been ask to join a band !,
by one christian bloke called Simun, he's one of them bible people, i think you spell it simon, not sure really,
hes a customer in the curry ship, i ask him details, ie how much he pay me etc, he say 2we give our services to the lord, and praise him threw music etc", maybe he's trying to rip me off, i know my music playinf is a bit shit, but if he want me to be in his band, he should give me a few quid, or get me a few cans in, waht you think?

its an evan jelical band , not really shure about that, i tell him i think about it.