Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance

Subject: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: BTMP
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:02 PM

Does anyone know if there are lyrics for this square dance tune? The only recordings I have heard are all instrumental versions. It's a great tune ... just wondering. Thanks. -btmp

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: greg stephens
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:09 PM

Always been a tune when I've heard it. I look forward to any replies that know otherwise.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:21 PM

The tune is also known as Waiting For The Federals, and I think that there are verses written to it with an American Civil War connection.
Try the above title in a search on Google?
Quack.
GtD.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:26 PM

other alternate titles appear to be

Waiting for the Boatman
The Federals are coming
No little home to go to
The higher up the monkey climbs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: open mike
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 02:15 PM

do you possibly mean the dance calls for the dance?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 02:24 PM

From various references on the web there was a sung hymn "waiting for the boatman" - which suppossedly was/is the tune 'Seneca Square Dance' = whether or not there are other words....

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: BTMP
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 04:59 PM

Geoff - upon your suggestion I looked in Google, then went here
.

I'll keep looking ...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM

The version I know of "Waiting the Boatman" is not to the tune of "Seneca Square Dance" (maybe vaguely, at best).

My friends in Iowa used to call it "Give Me Back My Fifteen Cents"; I've heard people say that they are the same tune, and others say that they are similar but different tunes, so I don't know if that's helpful. I've never heard words to it, at least not as "Seneca Square Dance".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 05:10 PM

The ones I first heard sung at Motleigh Musicalia 1988 (plus or minus a year)were:
I'm waiting for the boatsman
I'm waiting for the boatsman
I'm waiting for the boatsman
Who will carry me away from here
Come along children (mothers, fathers) 3X
Don't you want to go

And we'll all go together
Yes, we'll all go together
To see my Lord Jesus walking on a cloud
With a rainbow 'round his shoulders

(Then you play the second B part again)
And yes, you can get that last line all in

Subject: Tune Add: SENECA SQUARE DANCE
From: GUEST,Les B.
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 07:29 PM

This is what Ceolas Fiddle Tunes site has to say about it:

SENECA SQUARE DANCE. AKA and see "Georgia Boys," "Got a Little Home to Go To," "Higher Up the Monkey Climbs," "John Hoban's Polka," "Running from the Ferderals," "Waiting for the Federals." Old-Time, Breakdown. USA; Arkansas, Missouri. G Major. Standard. AB (Johnson): ABB (Ford): AABB (Phillips, Songer). Johnson (1982/1988) notes that there is an old hymn set to this tune, but does not give specifics. The melody is known to Irish musicians as "John Hoban's Polka" and appears to be related to the tune "(What Shall We Do with a) Drunken Sailor" and perhaps the gospel song "Rock-a My Soul (in the Bosom of Abraham)." "Seneca Square Dance" appeared on the Challange label (a subsidiary of Sears and Roebuck) on a 78 RPM recording by one 'Fiddlin' Sam Long of the Ozarks' (1876-1931, who actually was from Oklahoma but won a big contest in Missouri, according to Charles Wolfe) and was reissued by County on an LP entitled "Echoes of the Ozarks" in the 1970's. Long recorded the tune via acoustic, not electronic methods in 1926, and despite the rather poor quality of the sound it sold well in the Mid-west and West. Gus Meade and W.L. McNeil researched Long and discovered he had been born in 1876 and died sometime in March 1931 (perhaps in Wichita, Kansas). He was the first Ozark fiddler to have been recorded.
***
"Seneca Squaredance" has been, and continues to be, a popular tune among regional fiddlers. Fiddlin' Bob Larkin recorded a version with words called "The Higher Up the Monkey Climbs." Alton Jones of Theodosia calls it "Seneca War Dance" and Cliff Bryan of West Plains calls it "Got No Little Home to Go to." It is infrequently called "Echoes of the Ozarks," the name of a different tune (by Clyde Davenport, for one).
***
The melody was featured in the score by Ry Cooder for the film The Long Riders. It seems that one of Cooder's associates, David Lindley, previously performed an ideosyncratic version when he played with folk-rock musician Jackson Browne. There was no name attached to it and it was called "David's Fiddle Tune" at the time.
***
The origin of the title is obscure. Jim Kimball, a musicologist from Genesco, NY, points out that many Seneca indians (part of the Iroquois nation) were relocated to Oklahoma after the War of 1812, and that there is still a large community of Seneca in the northeastern part of the state, not far from southwest Missouri. The tune may also be called after the town of Seneca, Missouri, in the southwestern part of the state (which may itself have taken its name from the Indian tribe). A distanced, somewhat odd although regularly phrased version appears in Pioneer Western Folk Tunes (1948) by champion Arizona fiddler Viola "Mom" Ruth, under the title "Get Away from the Federals" with "Fall of Paris" given as an alternate title. Source for notated version: John Hartford [Phillips]. Ford (Traditional Music in America), 1940; pg. 122. Johnson (The Kitchen Musician: Occasional Collection of Old-Timey Fiddle Tunes for Hammer Dulcimer, Fiddle, etc.), No. 2, 1982/1988; pg. 12. Phillips (Traditional American Fiddle Tunes), Vol. 2, 1995; pg. 125. Songer (Portland Collection), 1997; pg. 179. Recorded by Ozark fiddler Sam Long for Gennett Records c. 1928. Revonah RS-932, The West Orrtanna String Band - "An Orrtanna Home Companion" (1978). Kerry Elkin et al - "Tradition Today."
T:Seneca Square Dance
L:1/8
M:C
S:Jay Ungar
K:G
D/D/D G|{A}B2 B>A d B2 A/G/|{A}B2 B>B A G2 E/D/|{A}B2 B>A d B2 A/G/|
A/B/A/G/ EF G:|
|:Bd|[B2g2] g>g d B3|[B2g2] g>a b e3|g/a/b/a/ ge d2 B/A/G|A/B/A/G/ EF G2:|

WAITING FOR THE FEDERALS. AKA and see "Running from the Federals," "Seneca Squaredance." Old-Time, Breakdown. G Major. Standard. AA'BB'. Bain (50 Fiddle Solos), 1989; pg. 22. WHR 01, Aly Bain - "First Album" (learned either from fiddler Jay Ungar or singer/songwriter Jim Ringer, Ungar's source. Ringer would sing or play on the harmonica the melodies of fiddle tunes he had learned when growing up in Arkansas).
T:Waiting for the Federals
T:Seneca Square Dance
L:1/8
M:C|
K:G
B4 B2AB|d2B2 BAG2|B4 d3B|ABAG E2D2|
B4 B2AB|d2B2 BAG2|ABAG E2F2|1 G3A G2DG:|2 G3A G2Bd||
|:g4 gage|d2B2 BAG2|g4 gfga|b(ee)f e3f|gaba g2 ge|dged BAG2|
ABAG E2F2|1 G3A G2Bd:|2 G4G4||

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Ely
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 10:00 PM

Okay, different "Waiting for the Boatman".

I've also heard it was named for Seneca, Missouri.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,SANDY
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 10:29 PM

There is an old "brush arbor" hymn sung to this tune (or one very close to it). I can't think of the title immediately, but the verses and chorus go thusly:

Come along, fathers,
Come along, fathers.
Come along, fathers,
Don't you want to go?
    And we'll all go together,
    We'll all go together
    To see my Lord Jesus walking on a cloud
    With a rainbow 'round his shoulder.

Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: open mike
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 03:21 PM

i think i have heard it is also called Cherokee Shuffle..

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 05:35 PM

Didn't Sam Long himself record this tune with lyrics;

The Higher up the Monkey Climbs
The Higher up the Monkey Climbs
The Higher up the Monkey Climbs
The more we see his big be da la da la da la da
Da la da la da la da da

Think it's on one of the County CD's Echoes ofthe Ozarks.

Hoot

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: John Hardly
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 08:11 PM

Cherokee Shuffle is definitely a different tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Stew
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 10:18 PM

As Guest Ely mentions above, the tune "Give Me Back My Fifteen Cents" definitely is the B part of Seneca Barn Dance. It can be found on Honking Duck.
Stew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 07:04 AM

Hey Stew,

Shaky ground to say that one part of a fiddle tune is definitely part of another. It depends who is playing the various tunes and variations of them. It's one of the things I find fascinating about fiddle tunes and folk songs in general. Buy a recording because you recognise the title of a song/tune and you're quite likely to hear something completely different. Most of it being down to remembering a tune/song incorrectly. Nothing wrong with that, it's called the folk process.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Stew
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM

Well Hoot, maybe 'definitely' was the wrong word but, if it walks like a duck, it must be a duck and if it sounds like a tune............   :^)
Stew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 02:35 PM

Stew,

I wasn't taking a dig or being critical in any way. I guess what I was saying was which came first ? the chicken/duck or the egg ?

I was at a session once where a banjo and guitar duo were playing Flop Eared Mule, an English girl concertina player joined in and was there all the way. When the tune finished the banjo player said to the girl "I didn't know you played Flop Eared Mule", she said "I don't, I was playing Bluebell Polka".

I've also heard two fiddlers playing together, one playing Home Sweet Home while ther played Silver Bells. Easy to see how the A part of one tune can be fitted to the B part of another unless you have a photographic or should that be phonographic memory.

Whatever you play and whatever you call it just enjoy it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,Stew
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 07:29 PM

Hoot, no offense taken. I know what you mean about tunes. The locals at a jam here start sawing away at Sally Goodin'. I'm ashamed to say that I don't know that tune too well, but, I just play Fire on the Mountain and it works out fine!!! :^)
Stew

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 11 Oct 09 - 02:12 PM

I was looking to see if there were lyrics to "got a little home to go to" - a banjo tab I like in a book of clawhammer banjo by Alec Slater, and it led me to this thread. Supposedly the same tune as Seneca.

I found these lyrics on a site called traditionalmusic.co.uk

Got A Little Home To Go To From: Tom, Brad and Alice. From Collins Family Oklahoma. Key G; fiddle in GDAD

Saddle old Mike I tell you
I'm goin' away to leave you
I'm goin' back to Texas
To eat cornbread and molasses

chorus:
Got a little home to go to
Got a little home to go to
Got a little home to go to
I've got a little home to go to

Rabbit where's your mammy
Tell me where's your mammy
I ain't got time to tell you
I'm goin' to Alabammy

repeat chorus

Saddle old Mike I tell you
I'm goin' away to leave you
I'm goin' back to Arkansas
To eat cornbread and possum jaw

repeat chorus

Rabbit where's your mammy
Tell me where's your mammy
I ain't got time to tell you
The greyhound's right behind me

repeat chorus (twice)

Structure: 2A, 2B, Asung, Ainstr, Bchorus, Binstr. etc

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Seneca Square Dance
From: Artful Codger
Date: 24 Oct 09 - 05:39 AM

An upbeat religious song "Waiting the Boatman" (different from both "Seneca Square Dance" and the "Waiting for the Boatman" versions above) was recorded by Norman and Nancy Blake; perhaps that's the one guest Ely was thinking of. Last line of the chorus is something like "We're only waiting the boatman to take us home."