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Classic English (Penguin) Folk Songs re-issued

Related threads:
New Penguin Book of English Folk Song (149)
Folklore: Penguin Books (14)
Mudcat Companion to the Penguin book? (20)
Penguin Book of English Folk Songs (36)
Index - Penguin Book of English Folksongs (17)


DMcG 19 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM
GUEST,MMario 19 Dec 03 - 10:59 AM
Mary in Kentucky 19 Dec 03 - 11:09 AM
Guy Wolff 19 Dec 03 - 11:28 AM
Joe Offer 19 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM
Skipper Jack 19 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM
Malcolm Douglas 19 Dec 03 - 12:54 PM
greg stephens 19 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM
Ed. 19 Dec 03 - 01:13 PM
Folkiedave 19 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Dec 03 - 01:35 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Dec 03 - 01:38 PM
Malcolm Douglas 19 Dec 03 - 02:14 PM
The Borchester Echo 19 Dec 03 - 02:26 PM
Peter T. 19 Dec 03 - 02:28 PM
Malcolm Douglas 19 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM
Ed. 19 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM
Nerd 19 Dec 03 - 03:05 PM
Malcolm Douglas 19 Dec 03 - 03:20 PM
Anglo 19 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM
Guy Wolff 19 Dec 03 - 04:53 PM
RolyH 19 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Dec 03 - 08:51 PM
John Routledge 19 Dec 03 - 08:54 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM
Cllr 20 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM
nutty 20 Dec 03 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,Ed 22 Dec 03 - 01:15 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 22 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM
karen k 23 Dec 03 - 12:51 AM
GUEST,Pavane 23 Dec 03 - 02:28 AM
Joybell 23 Dec 03 - 06:21 AM
dick greenhaus 23 Dec 03 - 07:32 PM
Bill D 23 Dec 03 - 07:36 PM
GUEST 24 Dec 03 - 07:34 PM
Mary Humphreys 25 Dec 03 - 06:59 PM
pavane 28 Dec 03 - 04:54 AM
Jeanie 28 Dec 03 - 06:37 AM
pavane 28 Dec 03 - 07:51 AM
open mike 28 Dec 03 - 01:55 PM
Ed. 28 Dec 03 - 02:20 PM
pavane 28 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,John J...notaguest 28 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM
Ed. 28 Dec 03 - 03:07 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Dec 03 - 03:19 PM
Emma B 28 Dec 03 - 05:24 PM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM
Nigel Parsons 28 Dec 03 - 07:55 PM
John J 29 Dec 03 - 06:11 AM
Emma B 29 Dec 03 - 07:44 PM
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Subject: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued
From: DMcG
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 10:50 AM

EFDSS have finally re-issued what was the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs under the name 'Classic English Folk Songs'. "Revised by Malcolm Douglas", no less.


I know it has been mentioned in other threads, but I received by quarterly EFDSS bumph today and there was the announcement.

Congratulations, Malcolm, for your endurance!

Copies can be ordered from Cecil Sharp House, even though their web site hasn't yet been updated to list this one.

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Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 10:59 AM

whew! Sounds like a lot of work Malcolm!


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Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 11:09 AM

Congratulations Malcolm.


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Subject: RE: Pengiun Folk Songs re-issued
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 11:28 AM

My copy is so old and used I would love to get this. Do let us know how. All the best , GUY


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM

Malcolm, they couldn't have picked a better man to do the job.
Congratulations!
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Skipper Jack
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 12:41 PM

My copy is so old that the pages are yellow.
I shall certainly get a copy.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 12:54 PM

The whole thing took rather longer than I'd expected when I first got involved -more than a year ago- but the nature of the project changed during that time. It was originally intended as a straight reprint, but it quickly became clear that there was an opportunity to tie up loose ends and to add background material in order to make it a genuinely new edition. Although Bert Lloyd promised in his Introduction that editorial intervention in the texts would be indicated and sourced, in the event that didn't always happen, and I spent quite a lot of time pinning down those details. Some questions remain unanswered, inevitably: where did the blacksmith's "good black billycock" come from? How did Robert Jackson wind up on board the Ship in Distress? Obviously, thinking has changed on a number of things since 1959, and I've tried to take that into account where possible. There are a lot of references to broadside examples, for instance, which simply were not available to the original editors but which can now be found, with patience, from a comfy chair at home.

It wasn't until the early Summer that I was able to spend time at the Vaughan Williams Library, but that time was invaluable, as was Malcolm Taylor's advice and encouragement. Whatever people eventually think of the book (I have, after all, really only increased the size of the boring stuff at the back that nobody reads) it is a great deal better than it would have been without his help. David Atkinson's new Bibliography is a vast improvement on the original one, but that's the only instance where we've dropped any part of the original; for the rest, we've just added to what was already there. There are biographical details of the majority of the singers, too, which reflects contemporary interest in placing traditional song in a wider and more meaningful context. Some of those are a bit sketchy, of course, and there is room for a lot more work on that.

Still Growing and Classic English Folk Songs (and the Mummers Play book of last year) represent a significant move back into publishing for EFDSS, and this time around they've gone for professional production values; it makes the books a little more expensive, but they are also attractive, well-designed and properly made. The pages won't go yellow and fall out. We'd hoped to have it out in good time for Christmas, but Julian, our music-setter, had a heart attack at a crucial moment and we missed that deadline. Fortunately, he is well on the way to a full recovery. He spotted some errors in the original "Penguin" notation, incidentally, that I hadn't been aware of; and those have been corrected.

It's a relatively small print run in the first instance (1,000). If we can shift that lot, it will encourage the Society, which has very little money, to take the risk on further projects. Malcolm Taylor would like to produce a second selection from Sharp's collections, this time concentrating on the Appalachian material; and I haven't given up on the proposal to reissue Frank Purslow's selections from the Hammond-Gardiner MSS (which is how I got involved in all this in the first place), though that would have to be a two-parter. We'll have to see. There's a genuine will at EFDSS to make more material available, but financial practicalities inevitably loom large.

I haven't actually seen hard copy of the book yet (I gather that the consignment has just in the last day or two arrived at Cecil Sharp House) and will probably spend Christmas spotting mistakes that we missed during proof-reading, and wishing I'd said certain things differently. Oh well. I've put up an image of the front cover (the next-to-last version; the final print will be cleaner) at the South Riding Network site for anyone who is interested. See if you can spot who all the people are.

http://www.folk-network.com/products/penguin.html


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 01:00 PM

One of the big joys of the original was the great notes at the back. It is good news that any updating and correcting has been done by Malcolm Douglas. All of us here on Mudcat will know just how good his research is, and know that this is indeed the boy for the job.
   However, I am a bit disappointed the paper is not going to go brown. That was definiteily the best feature of the old edition. So authentic.so traditional, so...folky.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Ed.
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 01:13 PM

I have, after all, really only increased the size of the boring stuff at the back that nobody reads

Believe me, Malcolm, some of us spend most of our time in that section of song books.

Congratulations, as everyone else has said. In terms of your 'name them' challenge, I'll confess that I don't know the man in the middle.

Thanks for all your hard work.

Ed


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Folkiedave
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 01:20 PM

So that's what you have been doing!!!

Regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 01:35 PM

I will be glad to see a fresh and authoritatively updated copy.
A useful reference work could be made from the combined posts in Mudcat of Malcolm Douglas (and of course Bruce O and others).

The browning is the result of sulf(ph)ur in the paper and leads to disintegration and eventual loss of the book unless costly conservation treatment is applied. I can't recall when paper manufacture entered this phase but I think it mostly affected material between 1860 and 1940 that was made with the cheaper sulfur-whitening process. Newer book papers are free (mostly) of this problem.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 01:38 PM

Just noticed that my copy is dated 1959, so the sulfur-paper problem extended later than i thought.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:14 PM

Well into the 1980s, unfortunately, and often coupled with shoddy "perfect binding" that ensured the complete disintegration of books if you actually read them. Even now, you don't get acid-free paper automatically; I think it costs more, but it's worth it.

The chap in the middle is one of the singers featured in the book. He's in Sunday Best for a portrait at the local photographers, though; his working clothes were a bit different.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:26 PM

Mine's from the 1968 reprint. And yes, it's yellow. It was after all the time of Mellow Yellow and Yellow Submarine. It cost 5 shillings (that's a quarter of a £GB. £15 for a new one? Well, I'll think about it...

People on the cover...well, Eliza Carthy obviously and a young Ewan MacColl, I think. But the chap in Sunday best...Phil Tanner, Joseph Taylor...?


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Peter T.
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:28 PM

For foreigners, does this mean that Penguin are not involved? (My copy looks like how I feel). Will it be distributed?

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:36 PM

No involvement from Penguin, which is why there had to be a new title. The rights in the material passed to EFDSS, but not the name or the original layouts. I think that the intention is to concentrate on direct sales (the profit margin is drastically reduced if you use commercial distributors) but specialist retailers are likely to carry it. In the USA, I should think that Dick Greenhaus would be your man.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Ed.
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM

I understand the preference fof direct sales, but I'd of thought that you'd be missing a (relatively) big market if you don't allow the stalls at next years festivals to stock it


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Nerd
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 03:05 PM

My hat's off to you, Malcolm, and I look forward to seeing the book! I have two different copies of the Penguin Book both of which are not so much yellow as a rich coffee color by now!


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 03:20 PM

Oh, I'd certainly expect it be on stalls (specialist retailers) at festivals; I mean that you are pretty unlikely to find it at W H Smith!


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Anglo
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 04:03 PM

For the US market, I am sure Dick G will carry it at Camsco. Andy's Front Hall is likely to, and for certs it'll be available from CDSS, which after all did start life as the American arm of the EFDSS or whatever it was back then, launched by old Cecil himself.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 04:53 PM

Do we get signed copies through the mudcat ??? Ha . Sorry Im a showman /capitolist type . With 1000 printed I want one as soon as I can get it.. Oh Dick >>>>>>>>><><><><><>< All the best , Guy


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: RolyH
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 06:53 PM

Well done Malcolm. I've got a couple of copies of the original and have put a couple up for auction in the past but this is really good news.
Thankyou


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 08:51 PM

How much is it?


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: John Routledge
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 08:54 PM

£14.99 + £1.50 postage John


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Dec 03 - 08:57 PM

thanks John.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Cllr
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

I was quite excited to see this thread as I have been after this book for a couple of years, However I was not as thrilled as my wife Carol who let out a little squeal of delight when she saw the thread title. She was consequently very disappointed when I told her the book was not penguin folk songs but a book on folk songs published by Penguin publishers. Cllr


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: nutty
Date: 20 Dec 03 - 10:32 AM

Keep on looking ....there is an "English Book of Penguin Folksongs" the brainchild of a Mr L Barker, I believe.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:15 PM

Refresh, for no other reason than that you should buy this book.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM

I reckon The Music Room [and similar places], would be interested in selling this book, they have a book section in there branches, and do stalls at festivals.
[i'm not connected to them in any way, just reckon it might be an idea].


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: karen k
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 12:51 AM

Oooh! Oooooh! Just seeing this. Have an original and like others mentioned above it is yellowed and falling apart. I'll have to get one when they cross the pond. Or, maybe I'll wait until I'm in England at the end of March through the middle of April and bring it back myself. Great job, Malcolm and others.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: GUEST,Pavane
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 02:28 AM

Yes, I can confirm the existence of Les Barkers book, as I do have a copy of that, as well as two old copies of the Penguin book (browning well!). I will look forward to getting a copy of the updated notes (The interesting bit!). I think most of the songs in the book are now very well known, it was an excellent selection.

Incidentally, the penguin is (presumably) one of the few birds with a Welsh name - meaning white head. Named by an early explorer, I believe.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Joybell
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 06:21 AM

Great. Congratulations Malcolm. I always read the bits at the back first and keep going back to them. We'll be after a copy too. Thank you
Joy


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 07:32 PM

If a sufficiency of interested folks let me know of their interest, I'll be able to order it in and sell it at a significant discount.

dick greenhaus
CAMSCO Music


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Dec 03 - 07:36 PM

is a sufficiency anything like a plethora? I expect there will be a market...


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 07:34 PM

Hooray!
Went down to C# house today and bought a copy, together with a copy of "Still Growing". Now wrapped up as xmas prezzie for Mary (though she's
thumbed though most of it in the car on the way back...)

We also had the pleasure of meeting Malcolm Taylor the C# house Librarian, for the first time.

The book looks pretty good so far...

Anahata


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 06:59 PM

Have now got the aforementioned Christmas presents.
I can't wait for all the festivities and cooking duties to be out of the way so I can immerse myself into these two books. The best Christmas present ever!
Many thanks to Malcolm and everyone who contributed to the re-issue, long overdue.
My old Penguin book will still be used, but only because I won't want to scribble all over the new one like I did with the old one. The new one has biographical information about the song-carriers who contributed the songs. It also has much more extensive information about the texts - just one example, Lord Thomas & Lady Eleanor, contributed by Mrs Pond - there is at least as much information again printed about the text and its origins which was not included in the original volume.I now want to see all the CJS and Hammond texts that were used to compile this song - which has been in my repertoire for years, and which my children grew up with as one of their favourite songs.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: pavane
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:54 AM

It strikes me that a great accompaniment would be a set of CDs with each song (the version as printed) recorded by a Mudcatter? Possibly with the full set of tunes as abcs as well? I am sure that Mrs Pavane would be prepared to contribute a track or two, as she has sung them in the past.

It would probably need to be about a 5 CD set or series. What do you think?

If so, I would like to stake a claim on one, possibly All things are quite silent.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Jeanie
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:37 AM

Excellent suggestion, Pavane ! I'm definitely up for that !
If we are suggesting which song we would like to contribute, then my choice would be "Long Lankin".

I do hope this idea takes off.

- jeanie


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: pavane
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 07:51 AM

Of course, it might take some time to organise, and to obtain permissions where necessary. I don't have the experience and knowledge myself.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: open mike
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 01:55 PM

what's EFDSS?


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 02:20 PM

English Folk Dance and Song Society.

See www.efdss.org for more information.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: pavane
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 02:25 PM

I have started a new thread with the suggestion of a companion CD


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: GUEST,John J...notaguest
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 02:57 PM

I've just been into Waterstone's and they tell me it's out of print.

Hrmph.

J


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Ed.
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 03:07 PM

John J,

Re-read this thread; Malcolm Douglas's entries in particular. Then go and ask for 'Classic English Folk Songs' as published by EFDSS. They will (hopefully) know what you mean.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 03:19 PM

ISNB is 0-85418-188-1; that should be all they need to know (though the right title helps!) As I mentioned, though, I don't think that it's going through the commercial distributors, so it will probably be quicker to order directly from EFDSS (contact details available through several links earlier in this thread). On the other hand, if Waterstones receives enough specific requiries it may feel obliged to carry some, which would make a change from all those books about jazz they stock and never seem to sell.


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Emma B
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 05:24 PM

I've still got the companion 12" LP recorded by A L Lloyd on the Collector label - it would be nice if this was reissued on CD


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM

It has been, earlier this year; together with the later EP he also made for Collector. Entirely by coincidence; Fellside records, who now own the Collector back-catalogue, weren't aware of plans to re-publish the book. The master tapes are long lost, but Paul Adams has done a good job re-mastering from vinyl copies. It's re-issued as A. L. Lloyd: England and Her Traditional Songs. A Selection from the Penguin Book of English Folk Songs (Fellside FECD173.

http://www.fellside.com/


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 07:55 PM

Surely this is one that should be available via Mudcat.

I, for one, would not object to a slight hike in price if I knew 'The 'Cat' was getting a percentage

Nigel


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: John J
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 06:11 AM

Thanks all....I'll drop in at Waterstones (regretably the ONLY bookshop around here now, all the others have closed) with the ISBN.

Cheers,

John


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Subject: RE: Penguin Folk Songs re-issued
From: Emma B
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:44 PM

Thank you Malcolm for that information/good news - now where did I put my birthday wish list .......


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