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Worst singing accent.

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Subject: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 05:38 AM

Got to be Elton John! Everytime I hear him, I want to burst out laughing. Interestingly, the first time I heard Elton sing, I said to myself, "This guy's been listening to Jose Feliciano", which makes Elton a copy of a copy because Jose, himself, wasn't singing in his natural accent i.e. when he spoke - back in the late 60s - he had a pronounced latin accent.

p.s. the similarity in their voices becomes very apparent when Jose sings an Elton John composition.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:28 AM

Robert Zimmerman.   Uhh, I think he goes by some other name.....

Dave Oesterreich


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:44 AM

Sans doubt... Madonna. I cringe when I hear her put-on English accent (both speaking AND singing...)

Beccy
P.S. Why do retailers think we'd rather hear schlock pop than oh, say, Beethoven or some classical Christmas music??? I'd wager you that there'd be less hostility in the stores if people were hearing a little less "Like a Virgin" and a little more "Virgin Holy, Virgin Lowly"...


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 09:48 AM

Robbie Williams: perpertrator of "We were there for summer tree men"


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Folkiedave
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 12:10 PM

Douglas Oates.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 12:25 PM

Anything Cockney sounding like Eliza Doolittle in My Fair Lady.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joybell
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 05:00 PM

1. Any male singer, who doesn't come from the UK, who puts his hand over one ear and does A L Lloyd/Ewan McColl. Singers who actually have a similiar normal accent or a sore ear excepted.
2. Female singers who sing with fake "soul" very, very slowly.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strupag
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:18 PM

Funny that you mention Ewan McColl, Joybell, because he had quite an English accent in normal life but his Scots accent, used when he was singing, was pretty awful.
Not that I would say anything against his songs!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mooman
Date: 24 Dec 03 - 08:29 PM

...almost certainly me!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Bernard
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 09:27 AM

Yup - Reg Dwight (Elton John!) and Robert Zimmerman (Dylan) are top of my list, too...

I also have an intense dislike for the 'traditional english folk voice' - very nasal, with heavily distorted vowels! I'd better not cite any examples, though...!!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 11:43 AM

Is Madonna supposed to be talking in some kind of English accent?

I imagine all the English pop singers who put on "American" when they sing are about as authentic.

Ewan MacColl's speaking accent was pretty similar to his singing accent. Sort of hovering in between Lacashire and Lanarkshire.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Little Robyn
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 06:52 PM

The Proclaimers, especially when they sang "Arm on ma wee"!!!
Robyn


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,M'Grath of Altcar
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 09:11 PM

On "Fields of Gold" Sting sings in an obnoxious Geordie / Jamaican / Irish accent. Nice song though.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Dec 03 - 09:27 PM

Many of the modern Country & Western singers that use that drawn out fake southern accent.

Just one example is Reba McIntire.

I have a deep like for older country music but a deep dislike for the "new" singers like the Tobi Kieth, Tim McGraw, "Deewhite yokum" etc. just about all of them.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Maryrrf
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 08:34 AM

I was completely agree with Guest above about modern Country and Western and Reba McIntire in particular. It really grates on me the way she deliberately draws those vowels out.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 01:48 PM

I think that I just dislike any accent that isn't honest to the singer. Just sing like you are supposed to. Although, I do like trained opera singers.

W.E.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joybell
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 04:57 PM

I agree. Opera is part of theatre. So is a music hall turn or an item within a musical play. The difference is, I think, that if you are performing AS YOURSELF and telling a story or making a comment -AS YOURSELF, then it is inappropriate to use a fake accent.

Of course your choice of material may influence the way you present a song. There may be words within a song that are not part of your usual speech. You can still use your normal accent though.
I sing with my husband whose accent is very different from mine and we have an unspoken rule that if I'm singing harmony I do alter my accent slightly on some words so as to blend in. He does the same if he's doing the harmony. Otherwise we both sing true to our normal accents.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: PoppaGator
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 05:47 PM

An hour or two ago, I posted a comment to the "Best Singing Accent" thread that included responses to several aguments put forth here in the "Worst Singing Accent" thread.

Sorry that I can't seem to keep the distinction straight -- must be a result of coming to work dead tired on the day after Christmas, with little else to do except surf the net and hang out at Mudcat.

I have no objection to a certain degree of consciously put-on accent, appropriate to the genre of song one is singing. As a New Jersey-born white blues singer (who can now usually pass for a native New Orleanian), I have to believe that! Of course, some do a better job than others of finding an appropriate vocal personna for their efforts.

Another half hour or so I can go home and go to sleep. Bye!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cllr
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 06:12 PM

Sting is originally from up north anyway and the beatles sang with an american accent to make themselves sound more hip.
Worst accent is not so much when an accent is faked but when it is either faked badly or they move around during the song. IMHO Cllr


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 06:13 PM

What makes me cringe are people who speak in broad regional English accents when introducing songs - I love that - then they go into 'Mid-atlantic' accents to sing the songs. Yuk!
Naming no names of course.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Maryrrf
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 06:20 PM

What is "mid atlantic"?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cllr
Date: 26 Dec 03 - 06:23 PM

He he he, MH I think I know who you mean if not I know someone exactly like you describe. Cllr


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,yum yum
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 03:52 PM

sorry, it has to be Johnny Cash!
BUT in his favour I will say...
he makes flat notes sound,    ok!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 03:56 PM

No-one, but no-one will ever beat Dick Van Dyke in Mary Poppins I'm afraid. Just no contest.

Not my opinion. Simple fact of life;-)

Cheers

DtG


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Frank
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 05:03 PM

"Funny that you mention Ewan McColl, Joybell, because he had quite an English accent in normal life but his Scots accent, used when he was singing, was pretty awful.
Not that I would say anything against his songs!"

As I understand it, Ewan McColl (nee Jimmy Miller)isn't Scottish.
When you hear many Eastern American singers affect an American Southern country accent, that's not convincing either but many do put the songs across in an effective manner.

Yesterday I heard the three Italian tenors, Pavarotti, Domingo and ? (can't remember his name) sing in English some American pop Christmas songs. The quality of their voices overrode the
peculiar accents for me.

Sometimes a bad accent doesn't get in the way of a good performance.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joybell
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 06:03 PM

I rather think that it's not singers with a distictive accent that's the problem, nor singers who are not using their usual launguage. For me it's the fact that when a stlye gets popular so many other singers suddenly take it up with variable results. Some get away with it but many don't.
Just had a wonderful thought. Wouldn't it be something if the funny accents of the Three Tenors singing in English became popular. We could all do it in the folk clubs. Make a nice change. Three Tenors wouldn't mind. They're famous enough to take it. Going off to practice right now. Joy


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Janice in NJ
Date: 27 Dec 03 - 10:14 PM

In the USA "Mid-Atlantic" means the states on the Eastern Seaboard that are south of New England, but north of Washington, DC. In other words, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Maryland. Does "Mid-Atlantic" also mean something in the UK?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Snuffy
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 06:04 AM

Janice,
In UK it meads from the middle of the Atlantic - i.e a Brit trying (badly)to sound American.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DD
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 12:44 PM

While I find it annoying, I would not say that Reba has a "fake drawn out southern accent{". I don't believe there is ANYTHING fake about it. Have you EVER heard her speak?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cruiser
Date: 28 Dec 03 - 04:34 PM

Yes, I have heard Reba speak. I think she cultivates that southern accent in her speech and song, with some exaggeration, for effect.

I was 'borned', as they sometimes say, in the great South. I have deliberately made an attempt to 'shed' myself of the accent I learned as a child. People still recognize the vestiges of that dialect with some of the words I use. Some of my dialect is ingrained and probably can not be completely eliminated. I could cultivate my southern pronunciations to make a song like "Y'all Come", for effect, by drawling the "Yaw", but chose not to do so. I must admit that the following phraseology "don't" quite have the same effect as Y'all:

"You all come, you all come, you all come to see us now and then…"

I don't 'sang' it that way neither. That reminds me of another 'sanger' that I can't listen to: John Anderson and his song "Swingin'" where he sangs "and we wuz swangin', swangin'"

I admit to liking, and sometimes using, nonstandard English such as the stuff my grandfather (and some Mudcatters have) used. Examples like: Yourn, hisn, hern, ourn, and theirn. These substandard vulgar forms of pronouns are humorous when used as parodies or in written style reflecting hillbilly dialects documented in books like the Foxfire series. Shucks, sum of muh kinfok cum frum dem deep dark hollers down yunner in Tennossay.   

I also like the many novelty songs where nonstandard English and accent are used to great effect.

'Life Gits Tee-Jus Don't It' and 'Down On The Farm' by Walter Brennan (and more of his tunes).

'Wildwood Weed' by Jim Stafford

I spent tuh rayst of that day an most of that nite a'tryin' ta find my brother Bill,
Caught up with em 'bout sex o'clock tuh nayxt mornin', naykid, swangin' on the windmill
He sayed he flew up 'air,
I had tah fly up an git em down,
He wuz 'bout haff crazy

Y'all come back now, hear?


'Mr. Custer' by Larry Verne.

Look at them bushes out there
They's a'movin' and they's a injun behint ever one
They's a redskin a'waitin' out there, a'fixin' to take my hair

Most of the mainstream (not novelty) modern country music, with its exaggerated, fake-accented enunciation, is just not what I care to listen to. I usually turn the radio dial when I happen on it. C&W music before the mid- 1970's is some of my favorite.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Morticia
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:04 AM

Loreena McKennit doing a Scots/Irish accent....why she feels she needs to is beyond me but it is awful beyond words


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Peg
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 10:17 AM

thanks for reminding me that Jim Stafford was one of my favorite entertainers for a long time.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: The O'Meara
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:06 PM

Jim Stafford, yes! "Blackwater Hattie lived back in the swamp..." Great!

Worst accent was any number of groups, South Korean, Cambodian, Phillipino, touring Vietnam during the war courtesy of the USO. Memorable tunes were "Lollin' onna Liver", "We Gotta Git Otta dis Prace", and the unforgettable "Come on Baby Righrt my Fire". (They were appreciated, though.)

O'Meara


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Cruiser
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 01:30 PM

Another Gem from that great crazyman Stafford about a phone number he got from a phone booth wall:

"Lucille! me and you gotta' altogether different idea 'bout A Real Good Time"

From the Album: Jim Stafford 1974 PolyGram Records, Inc.

I'm a'lisnun' tah tuh record rite now.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Compton
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:47 PM

Totally but totally agree with Dave the Gnome ...and the winner Must be Dick Van Dyke...Mary Poppins..No Contest!!!!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: CraigS
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 10:49 PM

I can't help thinking of Mick Jagger and Ian Matthews sounding South American! OTOH, PJ Proby (the Halifax UK answer to Johnny Burnette) was 'orribly American. Bob Dylan doesn't have an accent, he is accentuated - and entitled to be so. The Proclaimers are singing with their honest Edinburgh (where sex are for trash) accents, which I find simultaneously endearing and irritating. Me myself I get up peoples' noses in seconds if I'm not trying ...


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Roberto
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:16 AM

Guest Frank (27.12.03) writes that Ewan MacColl had an awful Scottish accent (and was not Scottish, again this prejudice). This verdict amazes me. Is such an opinion widespread? I'm Italian, and I can't judge very well Scottish accents, but Ewan MacColl's seems to me appropriate, and his voice and singing of the highest quality. I'd really like to read other Mudcatters' views. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: PageOfCups
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 05:33 PM

Second place: Pavarotti singing "O Holy Night" in English. He sounds like 1930's stage Eye-tal-yun. [shudder]

First place: Dick van Dyke in "Mary Poppins." Thanks *so* much for reminding me, guys. I'd managed to block it out of my memory - 'til now.

PoC
(who likes Reba's accent, FWIW)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Fred Miller
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 10:03 PM

"Transatlantic" is a stylized pseudo-British/American that many actors and performers trained in, less common now.

   Pop music is theatrical, and a song is theatrical in the basic sense of mixing arts. I don't mind a singer singing in the accent of a barnyard animal if it sounds good. It's a non-issue to me. Just bcause you learned an accent where you grew up doesn't make it real or natural, just handy--it just disposes you to be convincing with it, and you don't need to explain why you use it, to most people.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 11:13 PM

In UK it meads from the middle of the Atlantic - i.e a Brit trying (badly)to sound American.

Or vice-versa...

It can also refer to the accent that results when a Yank transplants to England (or vice-versa).

As a friend of mine (English fellow now a US resident) put it:
"Americans think I sound English; English people think I sound American."

In my own case, my American friends/family tell me I've picked up an English accent; my (English) husband assures me that this is most definitely NOT the case (although he does say that my Yank accent becomes much more pronounced when I'm talking on the phone to someone in the US).

I'd love to be able to "pass"... say more than a sentence or two without prompting the question "Where are you from?" (I keep practising the phrase "I'm a Yorkshire lass, me," but so far, it's a sure-fire way to get a laugh...!)

Cheers,

YY


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strupag
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 12:58 PM

It was me that said that Euan MacColl had an awful Scot's singing accent and I'll stand by that.
Jim MacLean, in an other thread agrees with me.
This is taking nothing away from the fact that I admire the man greatly.
When singing an old Scots ballad the man had an accent which reminded me of Scotty in Startrek.
Can't say any more as I am heading off to try and catch a ferry to Raasay for New Year. With the current gale here I have my doubts if it will be running but I'm off to join the queue

Happy new Year


Andy Mitchell


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Roberto
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 01:18 PM

Still not satisfied. Is Ewan MacColl's an awful Scots' singing accent in Geordie (Will ye gang tae the Hielands my bonny bonny love), Sir Patrick Spens, Friendless Mary, Jamie Raeburn, etc? As I admitted before, it may be difficult for me to judge being Italian, but I've listened to many Scots singers, from John Strachan to Jeannie Robertson, from McEwen to Jimmy MacBeath, etc, and I just can't hear this awful accent in Ewan MacColl's singing. Andy, I wish somebody, expert in Scots' accents, would say something clear against your verdict, but in the meantime I hope you could catch your ferry, reach your destination, have a happy new year and don't lay half ower, half ower frae Aberdour. Best wishes. Roberto


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jimmy Hill
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 03:53 PM

I have some sympathy for fake accents, being from Yorkshire. In my native tongue, the vowels are so short that there's nothing to build the notes around. You cannot really sing consonants because almost by definition they are stopping the flow of air, so all depends on lengthening the vowels to form the notes. We dont have long vowels where I come from, so there's little choice but to fake it. Imagine Geoff Boycott singing and you get the picture. My observation is that people tend to sing the song as they heard it: if it was Gaughan they copy Gaughan's nasal, aggressive sound; but would (try to) sing Marvin Gaye like Marvin Gaye.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: *Laura*
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:03 PM

Folkiedave - sorry - I think I gotta agree with you on that one!

xLx


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:14 PM

Hmmm, I don't want to get into a judgmental thing here, so I'm going to say carefully that the accent that surprised me most was the difference in Iris DeMent's speaking and singing voice. I expected her to have a high, nasal, heavily accented speaking voice, and she doesn't. At least, her speaking "accent" is flatter than her singing one.

It's interesting how some singers sound the same when they are singing or speaking, and others sound totally different in each case.

Teresa


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 04:30 PM

Anything warbling and Celtic.

yecchhhhhh.

I'll take hillbilly any day over that.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Hull on earth
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:46 PM

I know this will sound awful to traddies, but,as a true traddy for many years, can I now admit that I have never been a fan of Mike Waterson's voice. There I've finally said it. Sorry.

Lal, Norma, Liza, however I will always love.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 06:58 PM

I'll admit, too, that my friend and I, though we both adore the Watersons, we call them the Bleatersons. :)

Teresa


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:27 PM

Reba McEntire's vocal style, not accent, is what irritates me. She came by her Oklahoma accent honestly. But those vocal curlicues..! Raht tarring to the ear.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Once Famous
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:52 PM

Don't knock Reba. She is enjoyed in trailer courts all over this great land.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Ebbie
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 08:59 PM

I'm not putting her down, nor do I see any reason for anyone else to- I'm a friend of a friend of her family, and from what I hear she is a better person than some I know.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: jaze
Date: 07 Feb 05 - 09:23 PM

Does anyone in England speak like DVD in Mary Poppins? He sounded so... English at the time!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DavidfromSydney
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:05 AM

I must admit I'm always intrigued how Richard Thompson can speak with a middle class north-London accent, and sing as though he came from Durham.

When I first saw Mary Poppins as a kid I thought Dick Van Dyke just had a funny accent, like most Americans. He certainly didn't soumd remotely English

David


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Melani
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:17 AM

Me, whenever I've learned a song from somebody Scottish or Irish. I try to moderate it, but it just sorta comes out that way. Or any of us at the Renaissance Faire, trying to speak BFA (Basic Faire Accent).

For a long time I thought Hank Cramer was Irish, until I finally heard him speak in his normal Western accent. Though I actually quite like the accent he uses when he sings.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Kaleea
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 12:33 AM

Worst singing accent? Wouldn't that imply that the singer was singing in a manner unlike she/he would normally speak? If so, I'd have to nominate the dearly departed hysterically comical character of Inspector Clouseauuuuuuuuuu (Peter Sellers) when he was singing "Thank Heavens For Little Girls" to the Russian Spy who could not, for the life of her, figure out why he just didn't seem the same as when she fell in love with him--or who she thought was him but instead was Omar Sharif in the dark.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Boab
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 01:44 AM

Martin---you're kidding again!?!?
Seriously----I could name a host of artistes in the UK who are bluegrass and country fanatics and wouldn't dream of singing in anything other than an American accent; usually mimicked, I admit.
The worst accent? Well if by that is meant the most unintelligible, Dylan is unbeatable in any part of the world other than North America.
I forgive him, mind you, if I have the lyrics to refer to;he has some top class material.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:03 AM

Jaze, DVD might have sounded English to an American, but he never fooled anyone here in England. He just sounded like the ham actor he was (is?). Why do they do that? Why not use English actors to play English people and American actors to play Americans?

Rene Zellwegger couldn't carry it off either - her shite 'English' accent wrecked an otherwise great performance.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Com Seangan
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 04:18 AM

Bad Accent ? It's got to be Beniamino Gigli for No.1 on his rendering of Mother Machree in his Dublin Concert in late fifties. The man was badly advised to take it on at all.

On the other had his "I'll walk beside you" (in strong Italian accent) went down great. The accenteven enhance the performance - maybe on account of the international character of the song.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Moses
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 06:50 AM

I always thought DVD was miscast in Mary Poppins and that Tommy Steele should have been offered the part as he had much more talent anyway as well as the authentic accent.

Thought it was only me who cringed every time DVD opened his mouth.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 07:23 AM

Yes Moses, Tommy would have been an excellent choice. Presumably he wasn't well-known enough for the US audience.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 07:24 AM

And Tommy was a moderate singer too - which DVD clearly wasn't.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,mick
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 08:52 AM

The rooftops in Mary Poppins weren't authentic either . And the soot on the faces of the chimney sweeps probably wasn't real soot atall. The movie is a fantasy , a pantomine .That's the way I look at it anyway and I find Van Dyke's fake cockney accent absolutely charming . I don't think Tommy Steele could have done much better; does anyone remember him singing Little White Bull? I doubt if it will ever make to the digitrad


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:14 AM

Then you have cloth ears sir!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Snuffy
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 09:23 AM

most unintelligible, Dylan is unbeatable . I heard a track by John Prine once. After three or four hearings I concluded he was probably singing in English, but I couldn't make out many words.

most irritating accent for me it has to be Bert Jansch. YMMV


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Splott Man
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 10:53 AM

But then again, Tommy Steele did an awful Irish accent in a recently televised film


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 11:28 AM

But 'is cockney weren't arf bad guv'nor!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 11:55 AM

The worst singing accent is the one that is not your own, particularly if it is an American one.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: John C.
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM

Dear Roberto (if you're still there?),

Glad that you're a Ewan MacColl fan - unfortunately there's still a lot of prejudice against this amazing artist in the UK. He was a great talent but a very opinionated man who followed a hard left political line. Nevertheless, his opinions were based on a very deep understanding of British/European culture and traditional music. And his political opinions were formed in a British industrial slum during a time of great economic hardship for ordinary British working people.
I believe that Ewan was the only real genius I've ever met and geniuses are rarely easy to get on with (although on the limited number of occasions that I met him I found him always willing to chat and to listen to what I had to say). I still consider him, through the example of his artistry, one of the greatest teachers I've ever had. I suppose someone of the anti-MacColl faction will accuse me of all sorts of heinous crimes but I should say, in my own defence, that I've never been much of a one for heroes but for Ewan I make an exception.
As for his Scottish accent - as an Englishman I should really leave that for the Scots to decide - but it always sounded OK to me!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: sixtieschick
Date: 08 Feb 05 - 03:47 PM

Dr. John the Night Tripper


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,PoppaGator
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 02:49 PM

Believe it or not, Dr. John (Mac Rebbenack) really does talk that way! That's an authentic working-class New Orleans accent; as a lifelong musician, Mac probably never had a reason to homogenize and polish up his speech (as he would had he pursued a career in, say, broadcasting). On the contrary, he has found it worth his while to emphasize the non-standard aspects of his English usage.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 05 - 05:32 PM

I don't think there are many people who would disagree with John C, be they pro ar anti MacColl. However when a Scot hears MacColl sing in his Scottish voice, he or she knows immediately that this is an actor who fails to convince. Whether this is relevant to the pleasure the listener obtains is another question but the fact remains that his Scottish singing accent was pretty dire.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:21 AM

In the Uk there are anumber of different English accents, my native Barnsley is reknowned for still uisng thee and tha (thou) which makes such as Kate Rusby so natural in singing Trad songs

altho I have brummy friends I hate the thick Birmingham accent, altho I loved Cosmotheka (brum?)and singing Cockney Music Hall

Norfolk/Suffolk is lovely accent

When I recorded unaccompanied recently i was amazed to find gutteral stops over which I had no control, this might be explained by the pronounciation of words due to accent as mentioned above and lack of a flow to my accent

However my sound/pa men did an excellent job in removing from my recordings. these are not detectable in normal live singing for they are so short

Anyone any similar experiences?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:52 AM


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,neovo
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:59 AM

Sorry - I keep doing that.

I dislike the spurious introduction of a sibilant "H" in front of vowels. For example "H-abroad for pleasure h-as h-I was h-a'walking, h-it was h-on one summers h-evening clear". and such bad diction that you can't distinguish one word from the next also winds me up and turns me off (should that be hoff?).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 05:07 AM

At the local folk club, in fairest London
One pleasant evening in the month of May,
There stood a singer, of Cockney breeding
And his singing fairly took my breath away...

For he had no talent, or sense of rhythmn,
No ear for music, no none at all,
But he sang for ages, went on for pages,
And he sang them slowly, in a Galway Drawl.

He sang of Ireland, as if he'd been there,
He sang of troubles, of war and pain.
He stopped eventually, we clapped politely,
So he stood and sang them all again:

Any similarity to persons living or dead is purely intentional. You know who you are!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,HughM
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 06:49 PM

Liz - that was brilliant!

Maybe it's because I don't come from Barnsley, but Kate Rusby often sounds to me as though she continually alternates between standard English and Northern English (strictly speaking North Midland). However, I won't throw too many stones bedcause I live in a glass house. If I'm singing a Scottish song or a Geordie one, I often have to make some attempt at the appropriate accent or the words wouldn't rhyme.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 07:22 PM

Dick van Dyke in 'Mary Poppins' has the sort of accent that Americans think we have in the UK. The same accent can be heard in any American sitcom when an English character is introduced, whether they're supposed to come from London or not.
My least favourite accent is the awful 'Mummerset' accent adopted by many singers in folk clubs.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 12 Feb 05 - 08:20 PM

I once had a voice teacher who showed me a statement in one of her books that stated quite emphatically, "Philadelphians have the worst vowels in the world." I'm quite proud of that fact, even though I purposely dropped most of my Philadelphia accent when I was 16 and still living in Philadelphia, or, as we would say, Full-ulfya.

And as far as unintelligible singers go, I don't think Dylan can hold a candle to Vin Garbutt. Even Van Morrison on "Madam George" doesn't even come close.

Aloha,
Mark


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,padgett (at home)
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:02 AM

yep the Geordie accent has escaped so far, Vin I believe is from Guisborough nr Middlesborough which was in Nth Yorkshire (hope his op goes well) but like the North East accent can near unintelligible

My mate Sid Calderbank was last year untertaking research into the different accents and dialects and if you listen to one or two of Sid's songs in the broad Lancashire dialct youd wonder which country you were in.

e stood taliking in Whitby; John Denny from Brum, Me from Barnsley, and Sid from I think Leigh (correct me if I'm wrong) any one from anywhere else would have been hard pressed to understand what we were saying god bless English in its many forms. I know I struggled to get attuned. Just needed Benny Graham or Johny Handle and they were both there.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Teresa
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:14 AM

This happens in Irish songs a lot. The word "char-ums" which rhymes with the word "ar-ums" Is this just in singing or is it also in speaking? It always makes me giggle. :)

Teresa


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 05:01 AM

Why, thank you HughM. There was more but I think that bit covered it!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:41 AM

Let's have the lot then, Liz.

Pretty please.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Snuffy
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 07:46 AM

Sorry, Liz. That was me. Forgot I'd had to come in the back door


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 13 Feb 05 - 04:56 PM

It'll take me a while to find it again... remind me!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 20 Feb 05 - 09:17 PM

Have you found it yet, Liz?

YY (also interested)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,slickerbill
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 12:15 AM

I've got to say to my ear the worst are:
a) French people singing rock and roll translated from the english.

b) Japanese people singing country music.

c) me singing any French or Japanese tunes.

sb


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Hand-Pulled Boy
Date: 21 Feb 05 - 07:27 AM

This thread reminds me of the 'armchair' sports fan who constantly critises the action on the screen BUT has never played the sport themselves, and would be rubbish if they tried to!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:22 AM

Refresh...

Have you found it yet, Liz?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,wandris
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:02 AM

I well remember Tommy Steele singing Little White Bull when I was a child, I was not allowed to sing it at home because the poor prnounciation ! My parents were obviously concerned about my vowels.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 03:50 AM

At the local folk club, in fairest London,
One pleasant evening in the month of May,
There stood a singer, of Cockney breeding
And his singing fairly took my breath away:

Ch: He had no talent, or sense of rhythm
No ear for music, no none at all….
But he sang for ages, went on for pages,
And he sang them slowly, in a Galway drawl.

He sang of Ireland, as if he'd been there,
He sang of troubles and war and pain.
He stopped eventually, we clapped politely,
So he stood and sang them all again:

He sang of rebels and Irish rovers,
The lakes, Coolphin and Ponchitrain
He sang each note, like an Irish setter
And the tears stood in our eyes with pain.

He kept on singing, we started walking,
Till the Temple Station came into view,
Says he to us, 'mates, all back to my place,
Where I've got another book of songs or two:


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 04:49 AM

All this debate about Jimmy Miller being a genius! The man was a total fake who made a living by pretending to be scotch, stealing songs from gypsies and old seamen rearranging then and calling them his own - A total wanker!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 04:54 AM

Mindblaster - I wholeheartedly agree!! Never like the man! Although I must correct you - scotch is a drink, he pretended to be Scots.

LTS


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 05:08 AM

In his case it's scotch - I wouldn't insult my kilt wearing mates north of the border!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Wrinkles
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:22 AM

Liz said " Although I must correct you - scotch is a drink, he pretended to be Scots".

Wrinkles writes;
"Scotch" is an adjective, it's merely the english ponounciation of the Lallans "Scots" (which sounds like "skohshsh" to english ears; hence "scotch"). Two different dialects words for the same things. Although I'd say useing either at the end of a sentence is just bad grammar; in each case the correct word in an english sentence should have been "Scotish".

And Whiskey is a drink, the designation "Scotch" is to warn folks it's not the real thing; IE Irish Whiskey ;-).

Wrinkles
(running and ducking for cover; hee hee)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mindblaster
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 06:52 AM

Yes wrinkles, you are correct. Why is it though, that my pals from north of the border get very upset when refered to as scotch?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dave Earl
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 07:11 AM

Why is it though, that my pals from north of the border get very upset when refered to as scotch?

If I have understood what has been said, it's because they are Scottish or Scots(men)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 01:26 PM

MANY thanks for the rest of the words, LTS – they're a stitch! (Can't wait for the next singaround...)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:07 PM

The worst singing accent I have EVER heard is on a CD that is played at the hotel I work in regularly - No Names , No Pack-drill , but the lead singer seems to have an accent thats midway between Black Country and Cockney .


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Leadfingers
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 02:08 PM

But INSTRUMENTALLY they are great !!


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Mar 05 - 11:47 PM

newfoundland, but only when they put the country western lilt on it.
grraaahrgh.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:06 PM

ewan was okay. leave him alone. wrote some nice songs. was generally nice to people. wrote a lot of plays. nice people like Ian Campbell worshipped him.

what have you got to do to be liked. some of ewan's followers were tartars for telling eberybody what the tradition was really about. but the man himself. I thought he was better than all right

he contributed to the gaiety of nations

RIP - thats what I think

Big Al Whittle


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Kim C
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 03:09 PM

Reba McEntire


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: John C.
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 04:41 PM

Not often we agree, weelittledrummer (unless you're being ironic, of course?). Ewan was the only hero I've ever had (don't usually bother) - he changed my life.
Do you realise that he would have been 90 this year? Doesn't time fly?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Dug
Date: 09 Mar 05 - 06:01 PM

This song from John Dengate (tune "Marching through Georgia"

I am a little Aussie boy, I come from Cammeray
I've never travelled further than the beach at Byron Bay
But when I pick my guitar up I'm off and far away
To Tennessee via California

Guitar guitar I touch the finger board
Guitar guitar I play an opening chord
Then my accent changes from Australian strong and broad
And my tongue goes bungling through Georgia

3 more verses...


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 12:37 PM

LTS, forgot to ask before... who wrote Galway Drawl? Was it you, by any chance?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Severn
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 01:50 PM

Foreign Bluegrass bands like Druha Trava (Czech) or The Nakashima Family Band (Japan) can sound pretty bizzarre, but on the other hand, I can think of quite a few American bands, I won't name names, that don't get too much closer. Pick your (probably) local favorite.
Not that I could sound like a young Red Allen ot something if I tried.....


Severn


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 02:43 PM

The Galway Drawl was indeed penned by myself..... well, spawned really!

LTS


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: mandoleer
Date: 31 Mar 05 - 07:33 PM

I just thank the gods that Dick van Dyke wasn't a folk singer. Was he supposed to be a comedian or something... No, my vote in the folk world goes to someone not yet mentioned. The revered by many Dick Gaughan is a singer I would prefer to pay not to listen to. I could be wrong, but he only appears to use three vowel sounds - none of which I can describe here - which don't seem to me to be normal Scots sounds anyway. (Of English birth, I have Scottish family and am related to 'the sweetest of Scottish bards' Robert Nicoll.) Ewan McColl did have a peculiar accent, but at least he had a reasonable selection of vowels. I make no claims of superiority on my own part - as mentioned in another thread I have been used to clear pubs at closing time....


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 04:02 PM

Posh voices.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 01 Apr 05 - 11:29 PM

LTS – well done! I'm extremely impressed!

Severn's comment about foreign bluegrass bands brought back memories...

Quite a few years ago now, my folk club (Paint Creek Folklore Society, in case anyone's wondering) was involved in a cultural exchange with a Danish group in the Thisted (pronounced Tis-ted; near the city of Thy – pronounced Tu (sort of)) region of Denmark. One evening (when it was our turn to visit them), we had a sort of talent show, and one of the high points of the evening was the local Bluegrass (a.k.a. "Thygrass" (pronounced Tugrass)) group. They were great – had the music absoloutely down – but one of my favorite memories to this day is their refrain on one particular song: "And dhey laid Yessi Yaimes in his graive"....


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 02 Apr 05 - 02:47 AM

One area of "worst accents" which seems to have escaped criticism is " the white men sings the blues" syndrome. One of the most venerated performers of pre-war country blues is John Hammond Jr. but to me his adopted deep-south rural black accent is embarrasing.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: oldhippie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:19 AM

The worst I've heard: A guy named Wolf Krakowski. Someone once loaned me his CD Transmigrations, and he was totally unintelligible.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: romanyman
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 02:27 PM

those folkies that think all folk or shanties must be sung through the nose, make me want to give them a packet of tunes and a tissue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 01 Aug 10 - 09:02 PM

Interesting phenomenon in this thread. On the one hand, many are decrying singers trying to adopt an accent that they don't come by naturally (e.g., a Yank trying to use an Irish accent when singing a song from Ireland).   On the other, many are saying it's "the worst" when someone from an Asian country tries to sing a song in English and can't pronounce the "r's" or "l's" properly.
So is the consensus that you should never sing a song in another language unless & until you can sound like a native speaker? Should middle-class professionals not try to sing blues -- or maybe sing blues with all the final "g's" clearly articulated (and maybe singing "I haven't got anybody" instead of "I ain' got nobody?")

Personally, I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own, if the accent fits the song. Some songs really wouldn't sound right to me without being sung in a particular dialect. (Many English Music Hall songs come to mind.) Yet I would not want to discourage all but the "natives" to perform them.

I do agree, though, that some fake accents are strange concoctions of the imagination (e.g., the "Foghorn Leghorn" US "southern" accent) rather than honest attempts to mimic or echo an authentic accent one has heard.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 02:28 AM

I have played in an Irish Folk band in NYState for about 23 years. I have never ever not once tried or intended to throw the brogue. I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own.

One day at a festival this past year a fellow I know to have come from Kerry came up to me and said, Good on you Don, you're finally startin' to get the voice."

Don


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:03 AM

"I have always thought it a bit silly to try and sing in an accent not my own."

I sang a couple of my own songs at the break during a Debra Cowan gig in our local. One of the songs is written basically in Scots dialect whilst the second just is standard English. She congratulated me when I got back to the table but asked me why I had sung the second song in an American accent. I was pretty dumfounded as I didn't think I had. Still don't but obviously she heard something. :-)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 03:18 AM

Dear Debra has a wry sense of humor.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bert
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:10 PM

I can't believe that I haven't posted on this thread before.

I agree with Genie. ...I enjoy hearing singers sing songs in various languages and dialects other than their own...

If you don't try to affect an accent then you won't be able to sing songs like "Manura Manyah".

Dylan (accent wise) was bad though, but not nearly as bad as those who try to imitate him.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 02 Aug 10 - 06:40 PM

Don, I think there's a big difference between trying to sing "Carrickfergus" with an affected Irish accent and singing a song like "Twa Heids Are Better Than Yin" with at least some semblance of a Scots accent.   The latter is written in dialect, including some Scots words, and to me it sounds weird if sung with a midwestern US accent except for those few words (not to mention that it screws up some of the rhymes).

Same goes for some American songs, such as the part of Loretta Lynn's "Coal Miner's Daughter," where she deliberately rhymes "hard" with "tard" ("tired).

And 'ow do you do "'Enery The Eighth" without putting on something like a Cockney accent?

Just saying I think some songs, like some roles in plays, are meant to be done with an accent. If you can't do that accent perfectly, I don't think it means you shouldn't ever perform that song or role.   
And depending on who your audience is, they may or may not know the difference.

That said, I probably wouldn't go to another country and try to entertain the people there by doing their own songs.   And I'd steer clear of performing an "accent" for people for whom it was second nature.

Dick Van Dyke's accent in Mary Poppins doesn't stand out like a sore thumb to me like it does to some others because I don't hear a real Cockney accent all that often. But I wonder how many Brits can tell a New Yawk accent from a Joisey one? Or S. Carolina from Georgia from Alabama?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Patsy Warren
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 05:58 AM

I can't remember the artist's name but I think it was about the summer of 75 and the song was sung in the worst fake Jamaican accent, 'Whoah I'm going to Barbados'

To this day I cringe if I hear this stupid piece of pop pap.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Accents
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 08:15 AM

According to a scientific report out today all good singers, sing in an American accent, not deliberately just that if you form your words properly and phrases it will sound like that. Worst for me is the Tom Jones type fake Macho/Black accent. A dear lady in our Folk Club, sings in a very thick Birmingham accent despite not being that Brummy whewn she talks!

Desi C


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,bardan
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 09:38 AM

I think that the idea that your singing voice should sound exactly like your speaking voice doesn't always make sense because they're two different processes. Singing isn't normal- it's a performance. Singing tends just work better with purer vowel sounds, underemphasised sybillants etc if we're talking about intelligibility.

Another side of that is that in a 'by ear' context you'll probably be influenced to an extent by whoever you got the song from at least until you've been singing it a long time.   

Thirdly people don't necessarily have one accent or one strength of accent. My mum sounds almost english or at least fairly neutral to most ears cos it's been decades since she left Kerry and she's spent lots of time in non english-speaking environments. Stick her on the phone with her sisters though and you'll notice a (totally unforced) change.

I'd say the key is not to overdo/force it. If it feels fairly natural, it probably sounds fairly natural. If you start singing "last noite as oi lay drrrameing on pleasant days boi" you'll probably sound like a prat.

just my opinion mind.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Jan Burda
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:10 AM

I take it no one has heard Tom Waits.


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: DonMeixner
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 11:39 AM

I am a person from the middle of New York State. The idea that I would talk like a New Yorker and sing like and irishman or a Scot when I do Irish or Scottish songs seems wrong to me. That being said I will sing in a "Voice" if I am doing a comedy tune like Henry The VIII. But were I to sing "Carrickfergus" it would come out like Don Meixner singing "Carrickfergus".

Are we splitting airs but isn't singing in an accent different than singing in a dialect?

Don


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:07 PM

Hey, Old Hippie:

Thanks for a novel and humorous way of plugging my (first Yiddish) CD.

Originally self-produced and self-released (Kame'a Media 1996) it was re-issued in 2001 on Tzadik Records (and followed in 2002 by "Goyrl: Destiny," also on Tzadik Records. Got a couple of videos up on YouTube of the Lonesome Brothers and myself in performance at University of Florida (Gainesville). We're all old hippies . . .

and still rockin', baby!

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Aug 10 - 10:44 PM

Hey, Wolf Krakowski isn't your usual Klezmer band, but I like his Transmigrations CD. Maybe I don't mind his accent, because my Yiddish is no better...Wolf, what language were you raised speaking?

Judy Bressler you ain't, Wolf. Judy Bressler gives me fantasies. I'm rather glad you don't.

-Joe-

P.S. Wolf, if you performed at Gainesville, does that mean you know John Johnson and the 24th Street Klezmer Band?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:00 AM

Hi Joe:

Yiddish is my first language; I am a native-speaker, born and partly raised in Europe. Yiddish was spoken in the home and used as the language of instruction in =kheder=. What confuses you is my particular =poylish= (Polish) DIALECT, not often heard on recordings. Only the culturally disadvantaged would make a thoughtless statement claiming that his Yiddish "is no better," but you'll have to forgive me for not having the time or space to adequately school you. That said, I have never played klezmer music in my life, but of course, you, like many others, are mistakenly under the false impression that anything Yiddish should be classified as "klezmer." NOT. Klezmer is the INSTRUMENTAL party music of East European Jews. My VOCAL repertoire is drawn from Yiddish SONG - folk, theatre and popular and re-animated as country-rock, rhythm 'n blues, reggae, etc. Not enough space to explain Judy Bressler's Yiddish, but can say it is either second (most likely third) generation American/Litvish/theatre Yiddish. Enjoy your fantasies, Joe & zaa mir gezint, Wolf. PS Read my reviews @ www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:14 AM

As I suspected, Wolf, your accent has authentic roots. My training is in German, which I've spoken most of my life; and I picked up Yiddish by listening to a lot of recordings - many from singers who came from Poland and Lithuania. I think my Yiddish accent is pretty good, but probably heavily influenced by German.
But authenticity aside, I have my Judy Bressler fantasies. I love her voice, despite her New York/New England Yiddish accent.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 01:40 PM

You are correct, Don.

A DIALECT refers to REGIONAL speech and includes particularities
in GRAMMAR, VOCABULARY and ACCENT.
An ACCENT refers to PHONOLOGY, - eg. STRESS & INTONATION and SOUND PATTERNS.

In Yiddish, there are four main dialects. But there are overlaps.
People whose exposure to Yiddish is only from performance (and not family, community, education) should note that, in the Yiddish theatre, dialects were "standardized" or melded to create a workable "stage Yiddish" so that the actors would all sound like they originate from / inhabit the same place. This is the Yiddish most people find familiar.

Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects.


Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 02:56 PM

[[Imagine casting a play with actors from Liverpool, Jamaica and Mississippi and allowing them all to speak in their native dialects. ]]

You mean sort of like those old Hollywood epic Biblical movies where the Jews sounded like middle America, the Roman soldiers & nobility spoke with an upper-class English accent, and the Roman peasants sounded Cockney? ; D


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:24 PM

Genie:
Good point, hpwever, not the one I was hoping to make.
In those movies, the different populations were made to speak
as they did purposely to facilitate the audience's perception
of specific groups.

In attempting to elucidate the origins of stage Yiddish, I was
hoping to try and get you to picture, let's say, three brothers
(raised in the same home, etc.) being portrayed by actors with
wildly different dialects.

Peace,

Wolf
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: open mike
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 03:59 PM

When performing My Fair Lady in Sweden I hear that the Cockney accent is portrayed as the speech from Skane, in southern Sweden.

(i originally read the thread tittle as "worst singing accident"
which thread I will now start....)


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 04 Aug 10 - 06:52 PM

Oh, I know why the directors (e.g., DeMille) used different accents, Guest. I just think it's interesting that they chose "The Queen's English" to represent the Romans (except for the lower-class ones) and American English to represent most of the non-Roman central characters (e.g., Ben Hur, Moses, Jason, Odysseus, etc.)


Anyway, if you guys want to hear a gawdawfully embarrasing faking of an accent and dialect, check out
Nelson Eddy singing "Shortnin' Bread."

Yeah, I know, Al Jolson and others did that sort of thing too, but I think this one takes the cake (or the sho't'nin' bread, as de case mebbe).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Aug 10 - 09:13 AM

Old Hippie writes BOTH that someone "loaned" him my CD and that (Heaven forfend!) he didn't buy it, but it was "gifted" to him and it was "unintelligible." He also said it "went straight into the trash." Who would do that with a loaned copy?

Here's what I think: Old Hippie got a hold of a burned copy with no cover or liner notes and Old Hippie thought I was supposed to be singing in English . . .

Transmigrations: Gilgul (Tzadik Records) is sung entirely in Yiddish.
The cover alone would have made that pretty clear, not to mention the
extensive liner notes.

Now, Old Hippie, I am waiting for you to tell us you are a fluent Yiddish-speaker and found me singing in my my native language "unintelligible." LOL.

Peace and Love,

Wolf Krakowski
www.kamea.com


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Guest, Lash LaRue
Date: 06 Aug 10 - 07:41 PM

(Have tried to register as a member 3 times unsuccessfully.)

Worst singing accent?
John Fogerty. A combination of Biloxi and Brooklyn:
"Big wheel keep on TOININ
Proud Mary keep on BOININ"

(Rollin', rollin', etc . . .

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 02:57 AM

Well, DK if Fogerty's 'accent' is affected or natural, but it's not all that unusual for someone (like me) who has lived all over the place to end up with a real 'mongrelized' accent. When I spent a year in Texas in my teens, I probably came away with an accent that was a little bit central Texas, a little bit remnants of Newark, and a lot of central Illinois.    Then when I later spent 3 years in Toronto, I added more than traces of that to my speech patterns.
Why not Biloxi and Brooklyn?


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 09:17 AM

Nothing "wrong" about it. It is what it is. Ya gotta admit it can be, shall we say, a tad "humorous" at times.

When I hear "unusual" pronunciations and speech patterns,
I am intrigued and try to ascertain the possible origin and/or place of raising of the speaker/singer.

Was recently stumped by my oral surgeon's curious accent. Just couldn't place it and was thinking perhaps umh, working-class Baltimore?

Turned out he as a transplanted French-Canadian from Quebec. It was his English surname that threw me.

I heard every conceivable mish-mash of accents and dialects growing up
in an area of working-class immigrants. I find the many ways English is spoken thoroughly fascinating. Listen to Willie Nelson and Toots Maytal singing "Still is Still Moving to Me" for an unusual pairing
of accents.

So, Genie - what years were you living in Tronna?

Peace,

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Genie
Date: 07 Aug 10 - 06:11 PM

Early '70s. Then one summer in Montreal (where the "French" Canadians don't sound anything like the French I learned in school - LOL).


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Wolf
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 07:35 AM

I would like to apologize to Old Hippie for the posts I directed at him/her. In retrospect and upon closer inspection, the tone and choice of words I employed, while impassioned, only diminishes myself.

Thanks for your understanding.

Wolf


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 01:22 PM

Thanks Wolf, I appreciate the information regards dialect and accent.

Don


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: GUEST,Lash LaRue
Date: 08 Aug 10 - 04:26 PM

Good timing, Genie. Those were among the best years for living in Hogtown. I was there then, too; had an apartment on top of Switzer's Deli (gone) on Spadina across from the Victory Theatre (also gone).

Grossman's Tavern is still there. And, thank goodness, Kensington Market, too; most of the Jewish shopkeepers have been replaced by Jamaicans and Vietnamese. I used to see the wonderful Bob Snider busking in the doorways to keep out of the rain.

You say you had trouble understanding the French-Canadian joual spoken in Montreal? Coliss! Tabernak!

Lash LaRue


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: Tug the Cox
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 11:39 AM

This is from Wiki. Of course macColl's scottish accent was based on deep immersion in scottish culture....not faked.

MacColl was born as James Henry Miller in Broughton, Salford, Lancashire to Scottish parents, William Miller and Betsy Miller née Hendry. Both of his parents were socialists and William Miller was an iron-moulder and militant trade unionist who had moved to Salford with his wife to look for work after being blacklisted in almost every foundry in Scotland.[1] They lived amongst a group of émigré Scots and Jimmy, their only surviving child of four, was brought up in an atmosphere of fierce political debate interspersed with the large repertoire of songs and stories his parents had brought from Scotland.[1]


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Subject: RE: Worst singing accent.
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 07 Jul 11 - 04:23 PM

If you want to get an idea of where MacColl's Scottish accent came from, give a listen to "A Scottish Garland" (CAMSCO 702) which consists of songs sung by Ewan MacColl an Betsy Miller (his mother). Some good stuff there.


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