Another BBC2 Cock-up? - Folk Awards

Subject: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: yrlancslad
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 06:30 PM

Just seen the nominations for the BBC 2 folk awards. What the H--- happened to Mary Humphries and Anahata, Sharp Practice, and the Threlfalls, Gown of Green? The list isn't a bad one but it's getting boring to see the Carthys and Martin Simpson year after year, and the usual Irih Band as best Band. Come on guys you can do better than this .Oh yes and what about Davie Robertson for best original song for a start-Cauld Comfort is a cracker.
Malcolm

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: breezy
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:09 PM

who submits nominations anyway?
I've tried to Email em

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:35 PM

I do find the narrowness and predictability of the nominations a bit puzzling. Of course, if they reflect the range of material Mike Harding habitually plays, it may not be so very surprising.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 07:50 PM

They're the Radio 2 Folk Awards, though the awards ceremony in February is to be broadcast on BBC4 this time. Such 'competitions' inevitably give rise to acrimony as, clearly, not everyone's 'favourites' are going to be nominated and many comparisons are not only invidious but pointless.

However, I cannot see how they can be described as 'Carthy-dominated'. Eliza has only two nominations, as indeed does Martin Simpson while June Tabor, Jim Moray and Spiers and Boden each (deservedly, in my opinion) have more.

As far as 'best band' is concerned, I'd that agree this is an ill-considered category where I imagine Danu will walk it simply because the EC and KR 'bands' are no such thing but are established 'stars' with backing musicians and the Waifs are a pop group.

Mary Humphreys & Anahata are an excellent act, but a really recent new duo after being long-established individually. As such it would not surprise me if they were to get a Horizon award nomination next year.

I don't agree myself by any means with the nominations (show me who does?) but to be fair, they are a reasonable representation of what is happening right now. Personally I was really glad to see English dance finally getting a look-in with the Whapweasel nomination as well as seeing that fine musician Andy Cutting in with a real chance this year.

And anyone can put in an online vote for the nominations for Best Live Act at the BBC Folk & Acoustic site (there's already been a thread on this).

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 11:03 PM

We still don't have an answer to Breezy's question: Who makes/controls the nominations for the BBC2 Folk Awards? How is the list of candidates generated? Does anybody know?

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: GUEST,Sian
Date: 29 Dec 03 - 11:21 PM

A panel of approx 120 people, such as folk journalists, festival organisers, promoters and broadcasters, nominate their faves in each particular category.

Then the top four in each category are voted on again, by the same panel.

The panel are chosen by virtue of having a daily job, whereby they are paid to pass judgement in one way or another on the music.

There is a "Best Live Act" award this year, that is open to the public to vote.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 04:48 AM

OK, so it's an "industry award", along similar lines to the Oscars. Fair enough, there is merit in such a method, even if it can favour cronyism and establishment rule. No method is perfect after all - even open voting can be rigged.
So, Malcolm, not guilty (of failing to nominate Mary and Anahata for their wonderful second album). Acts such as theirs need exposure first, to let the audiences and the establishment "bite" on the quality...We will just have to keep beating the drum, and turn the volume up a bit.
I did cast my vote for "Best Live Act", meanwhile.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 04:58 AM

If it is an industry award, the it is mostly about selling records.
This is why Jim Moray has five [ I think ] nominations, to appeal to younger people who buy his CDs.
eric

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 05:45 AM

Other than by recordings or live concert appearances, what other criteria could be used to judge performance and achievement? You might think the bloke in the corner of your pub is good but there can be only two reasons why he's not more widely known: either he's not seeking recognition or he's not that good after all.

For the record, Jim Moray has 4 nominations, along with Kate Rusby. June Tabor has 3. The following have 2 each: Andy Cutting/Karen Tweed, Bob Fox, Martin Simpson, Danu, Show of Hands, Spiers& Boden and Eliza Carthy. Artists with 1 each: Dr Faustus, While & Matthews, Whapweasel, John Dickinson, John McCusker and the Waifs.

Where it gets a bit blurred is where some musicians are in each others' bands (like S&B in the EC Band, John McCusker (and AC sometimes) in KR's as well as their innumerable other projects.

What exactly do you suggest as an alternative? A phone-in like Pop Idol?

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 05:59 AM

Oh, and I've managed to omit Dave Swarbrick as one of the nominees for Musician of the Year. Shows just how impossible by definition (and, eventually, futile) an exercise such as this is.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: Alio
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 06:42 AM

I'm really glad to see Bob Fox in there.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 10:02 AM

I love the way people will post their gripes here where nobody who can do anything about them will see them. How about posting here where you can get a response from those responsible, or is that too easy?

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 10:18 AM

I think you'll find it's already been done "there" in minute detail.   And on umf.    But it's hellish quiet "there" at the moment... and I'm all for repeating myself all over the place. I do it all the time.

As for a response from "those responsible"? Well, maybe...'when fishes fly and swallows dive...'

Joe Offer, what about changing the name of this thread to something vaguely appropriate...such as "BBC Folk Awards"? Please?

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 02:42 PM

I've just encountered Danu for the first time and am in love, especially with the beautiful young-Dolores-Keane sound of Muireann's voice.

But why don't you start some Mudcat Awards? They'd have a lot of authority, given that many of the people here are musicians.

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: treewind
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 03:52 PM

Very nice of everyone concerned to give us all this publicity!
Paul Adams of Fellside Records tells me he nominated Sharp Practice for Album of the Year. I didn't even know what context he was talking about until I guessed later he must have meant the Radio 2 awards. I haven't seen SP mentioned as a nomination, so presumably that and many others got left out in an earlier round of selection whose details aren't published.

(Of course he couldn't nominate any of his own label's albums; that would be left to all the others in the first round)

We've had a Mudcat awards thread before. With all due respect to the many fine people who inhabit this forum, it's still rather a parochial and unrepresentative cross section and the thread in question certainly took a turn for the excessively frivolous. Mike Harding isn't much better, I know. Perhaps the EFDSS or Living Tradition magazine should have a go at something similar.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Another BBC2 Cock-up?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 30 Dec 03 - 09:30 PM

While I agree with you, Anahata, that a Mudcat award would not have much more weight than mike Harding's, it would still be a valid lens to view folk music through. So, for that reason alone, it would be worth having.
I am all for such an award - avoiding the frivolous side and concentrating on giving merit where it's due.
Joe Offer, are you up for running such awards? we could get heads together on the process.