BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:23 AM

I think they should have Harriet Bartlett on next time to represent the younger generation. She doesn't dress like a folkie, and has heaps of talent. www.harrietbartlett.com

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 06:18 AM

(Quote Big Tim)"Aly and Phil looked bored out of their skulls, probably because they were. It's not their type of scene but a pay cheque is a pay cheque."

I think this is a totally unfair and emotionless comment. Phil's brother Johnny died of a heart attack just 2 weeks before the show, so who on earth expects him to go on there all singing and dancing. Think about it, if your brother died at the age of 46, would you be cheerful just 2 weeks later?? I dont think so.


(Quote Auldtimer)"The sooner the BBC drop the musical Maffias dominated by Phil Cunningham and Donald Shaw the better"

And replace with who? Phil Cunningham has been in this buisness for over 25 years, and still continues to pack out theatres for his and Aly's tour. If anyone deserves that position, he does.

I think this whole thread is totally obsurd, as we are always complaining about how folk music isn't represented on the TV enough, and when the BBC finally decide to broadcast Hogmanay in England for the first time in years, this is how we repay them. I suppose you'll all be happy when they don't broadcast it down here next time. Well done everyone, very clever of you.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 07:48 PM

Samey is the word I would use , having been at some of her live concerts and enjoyed the first few songs, then realised that, yes, they do all get given the same treatment. I've got a couple of her CDs, but I wouldn't listen to a whole one at a time, becouse it's - SAMEY!
I was at Stonehaven folk Festival the other year when a full-blooded male started singing "Ranzle,ranzle" etc in KR style. He was rightly told, IMHO, that a fella like him should be singing it in the usual swaggering sea-shanty style, but he'd never heard it sung any other way than the KR way!
TB

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 12:23 PM

Hey SD, some good points there and I wouldn't argue with most of them. Incidentally, Hognmanay Live is always broadcast in England, I always watch it and it's usually very good. My remark about the programme being below-par was simply as a result of comparison with previous years, simple as that. You're correct about the problems with the OB stuff from Edinburgh - tough on the production guys but hey, that's what they get their big pay-cheques for.

My first two postings were in defence of KR who seemed to be taking most of the folkie flak, quite unfairly IMOH. I've seen all of her appearances on TV and she doesn't come over particularly well (I'd guess it's the nerves thing) but I don't see a small number of below-par TV appearances as a legitimate reason for the kicking she's had in this thread. I especially objected to the bitchiness about her choice of dress - she's a young, independent woman and is perfectly entitled to wear whatever she wants. She's also an excellent live performer, generous as an artist and a great young ambassador for the Tradition.

My main dislike (apart from the daft 'Monarch of The Glen' guy) was the inclusion of Roseanne Cash as the main artist when there are so many other great home-grown talents around (Okay, I mentioned Bonnie Raitt earlier - she sounds like a yank but I'm pretty sure she was born in Scotland :-)). If you read my stuff again, you'll see that I'm batting for a Scottish production starring Scottish performers.

IMOH
JB

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 11:09 AM

I typed all this the other day and for some reason, my PC freaked as I submitted it - so I couldn't be bothered to retype it, but the venom and vitriol being expended on this poor wee programme is out of all proportion to either its merits and demerits or the amount of time it occupied.

First off:
It wasn't a "folk" program. It was a Hogmanay celebration - sit made an effort to bring in other musical genres (pop and country). So criticise it for not being that great in that way, but there is no point in ranting about it being poor folk music programming when it never set out to be that.

Roseanne Cash is not a favourite of mine, however she appeared with Aly Bain on the Transatlantic Sessions 2 series, so presumably he was happy enough to work with her again.

Phil Cunningham has been (I think) the MD for this particular bunfight for a couple of years, and the big musical numbers involving not only trad/folkie musicians, but also "Big Band" have certainly appeared a couple of times in the last few years, and I for one think they are an effort to meld different strands - that works fairly well - reminiscent of La Bottine Souriante, I thought.

I agree that Kate Rusby did seem rather uninspired, however for those who suggested that it was her first outing on national TV - ehh nope - she was on the Hogmanay show last year ( I think - might have been the year before) and has been on Jools Holland's show at least once.

The selection of artists for a show like this has to cover a lot of areas - it's *not* a folk music show - and compromises have to be made, but hey - Phil and Ally, Blazin Fiddles, Kate Rusby (with Mr McCusker), capercaillie - who may not be to everyone's taste in this forum - but they did win a Scottish Traditional Music award last year - and they are very popular - yeah - I know they're not very trad.

I do agree about the presenters though. Jackie Bird should stick to reading the news and wee daft hamish should get back to Glenbogle.

Now having said all of that - I watched the show - sort of. And I have taped it and might watch it later - but at the time I was welcoming in the New Year with friends, singin and eating black bun, and firstfooting, and I saw most of it, and it was a fair effort.

But remember, guys, it was LIVE TV - they don't get the chance to go back and do it again (Liberty X excepted I think they may have mimed). They did a no' bad job considerin they thought they'd have the Embra Hoolie to fill in, and then it was cancelled - leaving them with big gaps to work around. So guess what? It was Ok.

But I was astounded that it was even broadcast in England. Never mind - moan enough and loudly enough and it won't be, next year.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 10:56 AM

Nice one John.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 09:27 AM

Dear cowardly guest, thank you for your highly valued comment. As a matter of interest there is a school of thought to which I subscribe. ie Either do it properly or not at all.
John

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:37 AM

Not my problem pal, but a problem for BBC Scotland if they wish to grab the Hogmanay ratings in future years. Hopefully their reaction to justifiable criticism will be more adult and positive than yours (whoever you are).

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:10 AM

And if this is the reaction then next year it probably won't be on at all so then you'll be really happy! Folk artists- New Year -not on BBC 4 - Whats your sodding problem?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:45 AM

You're so right about the programme as a whole John, it was indeed below par (Phil, Aly and John McCusker excepted). Why have some washed-up yank, trading on her deceased father's fame, as the star turn? Where were Dougie MacLean, Archie Fisher, Dick Gaughan, Isla St. Clair, The Battlefields and countless other supremely talented, if less well-known South Of The Border, Scottish artistes? And who was the silly little pillock who co-presented the show? Embarrassing's not the word!

A few years ago 'Hogmanay Live' had the likes of Wolfstone, Bonnie Raitt, Rod Paterson and it was a great show and a credit to the Scots. Shame the same can't be said about the recent offering.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM

All I said was that particular appearance was below par, as was the whole programme. In the country which "invented" Hogmanay it is a matter for great embarassment for me as a Scot that they can make the world such a mediocre offering.
John

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:43 AM

And consistently she plays to packed houses, packed that is by those who have sufficient wit not to judge her on the basis of one below-par (and technologically out-of-her-control) appearance on TV, which was so brief she had no time to relax and build up a set. Those large numbers who attend her gigs can't all be wrong.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:28 AM

What a strange lot us Brits are - we build 'em up, then we knock 'em down, time after time after ball-aching time! I reckon it's a kind of snobbery followed by inverted snobbery - when the lass was fresh and new and few had heard of her she was feted by the self-appointed cognoscenti of the folk-world, but Oh-my-God, now she's had some of that dirty word SUCCESS, so it's time for the same people to start slagging her off.

For the record, Kate is a very approachable lady (and I've had a number of conversations with her, including during her Christmas shopping trip to Meadowhall a couple of years ago with John McCusker when she took considerable time to chat with Mrs. Johnny and I about their future plans) who, as anyone who sees her play live will verify, has a wonderful stage presence, a fine sense of humour and great humility (which can't be said of all performers). And she turns up for gigs (which again, can't be said of all performers, including some of the 'Superstars'). She does, however, suffer from nerves (witness her rapid departure from the Poozies reportedly, at least in part, because of a fear of flying), but surely she should be applauded for striving to perform despite the nerves rather than decried for suffering from them.

Tek na notice on 'em Kate, tha's a good 'un.

Peace Brothers and Sisters :-)
Johnny

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Starbright
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:34 AM

We missed this programme due to power cuts caused by storms up here in the north east. I suspect that if Kate Rusby was a bit ropey, it was because this show was her first big shot at national television exposure. I think I would fill my kegs if it were me instead of her.
       Makes you wonder what sort of threads will be started if that programme pushes one of her CD's up the charts and she starts to appear on mainstream television! I bet they would all be derogatory!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:11 AM

For F$%*s Sake!! You whine when there's no folk music on television and whine when there is!!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Compton
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:24 PM

Thus in a short One hour and Twenty minutes went BBC1's entire folk output for 2003/4. I rather enjoyed Blazing Fiddles,Bain and Cunningham are always worth seeing, Capercailie and Kate Rusby didn't set my world on fire...and as for the burk from Glen Bogle!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM

Didn't see the show, never been a fan of KR but I have been to a couple of concerts. The first she was still solo and a debut CD. The second with hubby and the (I reckon) fantastic Andy Cutting. I think she works with live audiences well, but TV, even with a studio audience, is a different beast. The media like her and I know of people who aren't/weren't folkies who are hooked. She's a nice lass - she signed a picture of Annan Water that I took for a friend's 40th birthday and then dedicated the song to him in the second half. As long as she gives the general public a favourable (controversial point here) slant on English traditional music and leads them in, then that's fine by me. The exposure she (and others) gets grates with me, but I'll be broad shouldered if she is being an ambassador for folk. But hey, I'm looking forward to June Tabor's next tour and Kathryn Tickell (without the Ensemble Mystique).

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 10:10 PM

Kate was clearly nervous, and probably bothered by the heat; she uses an electric fan even under the relatively low temperatures of stage lighting. She comes over far better with an audience she can talk to. Although it may well be that her tendency to use "celtic style" backing musicians may have had some part in her presence on this occasion, her growing popularity, quite apart from the fact that she is very good at what she does (limited in range though it may be) will not have been irrelevant. At least she didn't look as bored as most of the others. Her choice of material was probably a mistake, but at least it wasn't naff like Roseanne Cash's. (Forty Shades of Green... good god.)

Re. james Wyatt's comments, I can only imagine that either he has never been to England, or watches too much television at New Year instead of getting out. Scotland has no monopoly on accomplished musicians or a "spirit of fun", though over the decades all that Hogmanay business (a Northern English custom as well as a Scottish one) has become inextricably tied up in the minds of the media -and thus the general public- with Scottishness of the "White Heather Club" variety, of which this programme was no more than a modestly updated version.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Simon.
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:11 PM

I enjoyed the small part of the show I saw, didn't realise that
Kate Rusby was well known, I thought she was a guest from the
audience, she looked pretty, but a little surprised, to be singing
in this company.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,james Wyatt
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 08:49 PM

Kate Rusby was the best the BBC could come up with that sounded
a little Celtic, I'm sorry for English folk music fans, if there
are any, but that is the way the media see's it.
English Folk Music, and the spirit of fun, at New Year, has little
place in the Engish calender.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,vectis
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:42 PM

Down in my neck of the woods we only get the basic 4 channels and no digital. Channel 5 and digital are not going to be up and running in the forseeable future because it might interfere wiv the French channels over the water, or something.
It was great to see some folk on TV at all and I enjoyed it even if KR did leave me slightly disappointed. I probably expected too much more of her because of the amount of hype I'd heard about her.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Maurice
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM

I was very surprised that no mention was made of the late Johnny Cunningham...or maybe I missed it?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Shambles
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 01:54 PM

Talk of the Devil - Some good news..........Details in the following thread.

BBC4 - 9 Jan - Transatlantic Sessions 2

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: akenaton
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:38 AM

Auld timer...What kind of comment is that about Rab Noakes???
To my mind Rab is Scotlands finest writer and hes also an accomplished performer.
Rab has been in folk music for decades and is an intellegent folk historian..
Rab is the most underrated singer /musician Scotland has ever produced,
with the possible exception of Gerry Rafferty.
I think an apology is in order ......To Rab....Ake

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:25 AM

Yes indeed, Big Tim, the Fergie program was a treat, so when will we see AND hear more of him and his button box on TV? Don't hold your breath. Mention was made, by Fergie, of the last great TV folk program "Talla Balla". BBC, bring that back or re-show the old ones please.

As for bringing radio presenters to TV, sorry John Mack. but there are good reasons why they are kept under cover, Freda Morrison is a complete pain in any anatomical part you wish to pick, Nancy Nicholson is too twee, Robert "Rab" Noakes is far too thugish in appearance and maner, Robbie Shepherd (I am a regular listener to The Reel Blend)is the best nominee of the bunch but he would need at least three assistants to keep him on, the right track, the right program and the right day.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:15 AM

I have long thought K.R. was a good singer, but did not live up to her publicity. It is a relief to know that others are of the same mind, as living as I do, on her 'home ground' I never normally hear a negative comment.I wish her well, and congratulate her publicist, who is the reason we're discussing her at all!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 06:18 PM

As a KR fan, I thought she put on a poor show too. Partly the wrong choice of material. She's much better at a live concert. The show overall wasn't that bad - it was the best thing on television that night (if not over the entire holiday....)

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Big Tim
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 02:47 PM

Just watched the BBC2 ducu about Fergie MacDonald. All is forgiven. Pity they didn't show this last night.

(PS - I just learned today that the various BBC TV regions: eg Northern Ireland, Scotland, Wales, the various areas of England, are all now available on digital tv in any part of the UK. Previously fine tuning was required: now they are all available on the general menu - so the "Fergie" prog was available "nation"wide.)

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,pv
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM

I think the reason they get Kate in is that she has a Celtic sound, what with John and Mike McGoldrick and all, that will fit in well with the rest of the programme. And she's a babe, obviously, whatever she wears, professional and easy on the ears. That's what these shows are about, not authenticity. They are a taster, and Kate and Capercaillie and those sorts of people are the perfect taster for "folk" as a non-specific genre, pleasant party music. I've yet to see them put English music into the Hogmanay show, although I thought as an end-of-year thing it was pretty good, and seeing the lovely Aidan O'Rourke playing with Liberty X was hilarious. Seeing them boy band lads jumping up and down in their kilts...wearing pants, unfortunately. Not traditional at all!!Mumble mumble... ;-)
x p

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 11:56 AM

Scottish radio is bursting at the seams with presenters, and producers, who are or were folk performers, and folk on radio is quite well done, albeit not often enough. Sadly none of this expertese seems to have found it's way onto the box.
Freda Morrison
Nancy Nicholson
Robert "Rab" Noakes
Robbie Shepherd
To name a few.
John

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:29 AM

Couldn't agree more! Unfortunately for us though, as you say, the BBC either hasn't figured it out. And there is also a chance they don't want to figure it out, because they feel comfortable with the trad/roots acts remaining in the "Scottish" cultural ghetto of "Scottish" cultural events on the telly. I suspect this may well be the case, particularly because of the current trend of including a token English act.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 10:18 AM

They just haven't found a good way to present them on television, particularly because of the sound issues, and the cheese factor with contrived settings and presenters.

Series like the Transatlantic Sessions and other Aly Bain shows (mentioned earlier in this thread) - certainly have found a good way of presenting these things on TV. These shows did away with the cheese, contrived settings and had no presenters at all!

They just concentrated on letting the music speak for itself.

Sadly not too many people (especially on the TV production side) appear to have seen these fine examples of how it can and how it should be done.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:34 AM

I didn't see the broadcast so have no opinion on Kate Rusby's performance or attire. But 'flavour of the month'? A very long one as she's been in the public eye for over 10 years and has been singing all her life which has been very much immersed in the folk world given the involvement of the rest of her family.

She's a lovely person, an excellent guitarist and above average singer, though not, admittedly, quite to my taste. She has a great band though and the world-class musicians in it can't all be wrong. Kate is a professional musician, like all the others who were hired to take part in such a cheesy jamboree and as such, richly deserves the pay cheque that comes with it.

Whether it's done much to enhance the public image of traditional music is another matter altogether.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: akenaton
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 09:13 AM

I have never been under the illusion that Kate Rusby had any particular talent.As far as I can see,she became flavour of the month due to her pleasing looks and manner.She became a standard bearer for the "Youth Wing",and all us old grumpies thought it might add a bit of impetus to folk music in general,.....but you need "smeddum, tae be richt coorse ,or richt kind".....Ake

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 08:55 AM

Zany Mouse, I'm not the least bit surprised that Phil Cunningham showed that level of professionalism during his bereavement. Out of that same sort of bereavement, Altan's Frankie Kennedy Winter School was born, and many fine musicians came together and performed at a high level of professionalism in his honour. I'm sure that is the spirit in which all the musicians came together.

I've seen some of these same suspects, Karen Matheson, Phil Cunningham, et al on these BBC Hogmanay specials before. Pretty dire. But that said, just because the BBC Hogmanay specials are dire, doesn't mean the musicians themselves suck. I mean, they really don't choose crap musicians to perform on these things, they pick the cream of the crop. They just haven't found a good way to present them on television, particularly because of the sound issues, and the cheese factor with contrived settings and presenters.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Shambles
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 08:41 AM

The impression given to the rest of the UK of Scottish people watching shows like this on New Years Eve is an entirely false one as they are all out enjoying themselves. I suspect the same is true of the TV talent - who probably are also out getting pissed and only hand over to a lesser crew on nights to handle for shows like these.

It is amazing that all that talent (with one or two exeptions) can be gathered together to provide a show that one could have so easily slept through. Most BBC TV producers, when given quality folk artists seem to share this talent - incuding those in charge of Jools Holland's shows. Or perhaps thesr artists really are that crap?

Many of us do know the talent of these performers and probably loyally persevered to the end of the show, in order to see some of it displayed. I suspect everyone else would have just turned over or gone out and gotten pissed too......

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 05:29 AM

Hey Zany it was a music programme not a fashion show, this one of the things that sets us apart from ' pop? ' music.
eric

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 04:59 AM

Re: KR's dress - yes, Charity, it was nice - but for a sunny day at the seaside only.

I'm surprised that not one comment as been made about Phil Cunningham's professionalism. I don't think I could have performed at a gig like that having been bereaved only a few days before. Could you?

ZM

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 02 Jan 04 - 04:48 AM

Kate Rusby was excellent, she gets better every time I see her and I'm not a fan.
eric

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Chris Newman
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM

I thought the programme was really good, except for the utterly lamentable presenters. It made me realise just how good Terry Wogan is...

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: plum
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:30 PM

i just want to stick up for kate rusby and say her dress was nice, and i'm not really a fan of her music, so there you are, my decision is purely fashion based.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 03:12 PM

Don't want to turn this into a Shane MacGowan thread, but, thanks CR. Hitched? Not legally I think, but they are soul partners (and the word "wife" has often been used re their relationship). On reading the book, I was surprised to discover that Victoria is actually Irish. Hope Shane can keep going.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:17 PM

I'm sorry, Dave...

It's a bit more important than a joke, mind.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: BB
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:17 PM

As my other half had a (lucrative) calling gig, I was all alone at home nursing a breaking cold, so watched the whole of the BBC1 broadcast, which, music-wise wasn't half bad - at least it was a whole hour of (mostly) my kind of music. However, my feeling was that KR let the English down badly, and probably confirmed a largely held Scots belief that the English know nothing about traditional music!

I'd not seen her perform previously, only heard her on CD, and not been impressed with her rather 'little girl' voice, but thought that all the fuss must mean that she must be stunning in performance. Far from it, even allowing for nerves. She's been performing for a long time now, and surely should have learnt something about communicating with an audience. I don't think you can do that with your eyes down the whole time, and your mouth hardly open. The contrast between her and the other singers on the show couldn't have been greater.

I have to say that, as an English person and heavily involved in the English folk scene, I was ashamed that the presenter was talking her up as being nominated for four Folk Awards, including her self-penned song, which for me was something and nothing. Against the brilliant musicianship of the Scots musicians, where does that leave us in the public perception?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:14 PM

I always liked The White Heather Club! Moira Anderson being all hoity-toity. Kenneth MacKellor (Was it?) wearing plaid shirts, sitting on hay bales and pretending he was a country singing tenor. Andy Stewart being pissed out his head...

Eeeehhhh. The good old days:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,rog m
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:13 PM

CR.. yes, that does explain the lyric reading bit. When I knew he was on I had everything crossed that he wouldn't trot out FToNY, I wouldn't have minded really though, it would have still been a chance to see Shane on the box.

C-Flat..having seen Shane perform live for the last twenty years , I must disagree with you. I have often left a gig thinking, he was pissed, but never thinking he was shite.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:08 PM

Too right LesB and I even enjoyed the bit with the girls in short kilts and noted that quite a lot of the musicians in the studio, including Phil and Balzing fiddles, joined in with them - nice touch I thought. Me mam who has been around longer than TV thought that it was great, best new years telly in years so there!

Stop complaining and congratulate the beeb for doing it.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 02:03 PM

rog m: Neither did I, it's just what someone on Shane's site said.   If it's the case, then I'm sure Jools meant well. It's just that it isn't really Shane's usual sort of song. Anyway, it would explain why he had to read the lyrics. I think it would probably have been better if he'd done one of his own, well-known songs, given the sort of audience on New Year's Eve who, if they's heard of Shane at all would probably only know FToNY...

Re getting hitched: no idea, they've been talking about it for at least 20 years though...

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: LesB
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:59 PM

I taped it, (I was out enjoying myself). It may not have been perfect but it was more folk music on the box than I had seen in all of 2003.
When I say "the box" I mean the normal 5 channels, which you get for your licence.

Les

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:58 PM

countess richard, I've been reading Tims thread and it would seem that Aidan Crossey and I are pretty much in agreement.
In short, he's a talented man who, due to his prediliction for self abuse, is probably not cut out for performing.
And I certainly wouldn't advocate the throwing of bottles!!!
C-flat

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,rog m
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:52 PM

CR.. didn't realise Jools wrote that tune. Just had a look at the row raging, I think that Jools, as a big Shane fan, would have wanted him to sing it out of his admiration for Shane, and not out of some meglomaniac need to hear his composition aired. Jools has provided us with many chances to see Shane live on TV over the years, and maybe they have an appreciation of each other?

Did he and Victoria get hitched then? Hope so, his sobriety earlier in the year was being attributed to the fact that she had left him, and he was endeavouring to clean up?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:41 PM

With all due respect, Blowzabella; what the fuck do you expect?

Your personal favourites? Folk Music is a minority interest. The artists that you like best are liked by even fewer.

I'm sorry that you don't like Kate Rusby (your loss) but what do you really expect

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:34 PM

Tim: Shane sang To Be Home With You. According to the row raging on his website at the moment, this was written by Jools Holland and performed at his request.

C-flat: Suggest you take a look at the thread Tim refers to, especially Aidan Crossey's contribution.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Blowzabella
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:32 PM

It's just all so predictable though - Kate Rusby on one channel - Eliza Carthy on another - fed up to the back teeth of hearing about both of them I'm afraid!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: smallpiper
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:06 PM

I enjoyed it even though Kate was not at her best

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:57 PM

What did Shane sing? I started a Thread about him a couple of years ago: "Shane MacGowan: Saint or Sinner?". Some strong opinions were expressed! (I've just finished reading "A Drink With Shane MacGowan" by his wife Victoria Clarke -he's a very well informed and intelligent guy).

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,rog m.
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:49 PM

Jools put on an excellent show. It was soul food seeing Desmond Dekker, he sang well, moved well, and the audience loved it too. A real treat.

Shane looked/sounded much better than I have seen him for a couple of years. Sure he is a result of his hard living, but that doesn't detract from the man's passion in my eyes.May he continue to exist.

No idea what they were all wearing.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:42 PM

So you're the one who's got them. I think he'd like them back!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:32 PM

I like his teeth...

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:31 PM

As for the "Wilting White Heather Mark 2" show, all it needed to recapture it's former glory was a wee-man-in-kilt, elbows raised, cheeky grin, singing "Donald where's yer troosers?" with a canny wink to camera, and you've got it! :-)

Aaah!, where did it all go wrong?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:24 PM

I'm sorry, Guest Ed, if I sound like I'm bitching. I enjoyed the show overall and I'm quite sure that I'm in a minority where MacGowan is, which is really what prompted my post. I'm more curious to know what buttons he presses with people.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:21 PM

I can see that,akenaton, in a number of artists, including Dylan whose songs were almost always better (to me) when someone else sang them, but for some reason I just don't see anything to warm to in MacGowan.
I never feel any emotion in his delivery, which can often over-ride the neccessity to "perform". I just see a drunk who doesn't care.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:20 PM

Well I enjoyed it! (Both BBC1 and BBC2)

The fact that I'd had a bottle of port may have helped. Seriously though, this bitchiness is somewhat unbecoming on the first day of the year, when we (hopefully) decide that we'll try and be nicer for the next 12 months.

Kate Rusby had a rubbish dress, certainly. I still want to marry her though.

Any ideas as to how to get that pesky McCusker bloke out of the way?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:14 PM

Shane MacGowan certainly sounded sober enough when Jools spoke to him earlier on in the broadcast. And he certainly looked in good form...er, healthier...than usual. I didn't much like the song, still less the musical arrangement but then, as someone said earlier, a pay cheque is a pay cheque...

Maybe Shane was just nervous of those who are only too ready to criticise a poor performance. I was just glad to see him alive and performing at all.

I remain convinced I made a wise choice in giving the Wilting White Heather Mark 2 show a miss. I'd have hated the sight of Phil & Aly looking miserable...

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: akenaton
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:14 PM

I agree c-flat,but Dylan is a lousy performer and his shortcomings are accepted as part of his personna
With a very few people ,its not just the performance that counts.
   Ake

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: C-flat
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM

I did switch over to Jools Holland and watched Shane MacGowan. I have never understood what the appeal of MacGowan is though. There have been other artists that, while they couldn't be called singers, manage to inject enough style or character into a performance to make it special but he just sat, wooden-faced singing appallingly from an auto-cue that he could barely read (completely pissed), before stumbling back to his seat.
I'm sure that there are many devotees of his here who will argue that he is a great poet/writer and I wouldn't disagree, but in my opinion he is a lousy performer.
C-flat (reaching for the tin hat)

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Auldtimer
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 11:57 AM

The show was as bad and predictable as I expected. The sooner the BBC drop the musical Maffias dominated by Phil Cunningham and Donald Shaw the better. Why no crit. about Karen Matheson? The lassie can't handle anything outside the world of Gaeldom and not much from inside either. Still it could have been worse, morbid Michael Marra and big Edna Reader could have droped in to bugger up some Burns songs.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 11:20 AM

Phil may have been musical director but he had no control over what was going out live. I'm sure the sound in the monitors was OK and he couldn't have done anything about it if not. Maybe they just play too closely together.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:50 AM

WOMAD 2003 audio and video clips are on the R3 site here and will be till the next festival this summer.

Also at this site you can here World Music Day currently being broadcast. In another thread it says Mudcatter Sam Pirt with the rest of his band 422 will be playing in about an hour's time.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM

There was also the WOMAD concert on BBC4, which I watched for the first hour, all the bands were African or Carribean except the Eliza Carthy Big Band who were excellent.
eric

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: fat B****rd
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:09 AM

Yeah ,yeah, yeah. Everybody sems to forget that there's an off button and other channels. Main confusion where I was (Dunfermline) seems to be time differences. We saw three "Auld Lang Synes"
I must say I'm surprised to see Kate being heavily criticised but most people don't care that much what's on telly on New Years Eve. Anyway Happy New Year.
Naturally I didn't notice the incedibly short kilts worn by the girls in LIberty X.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 09:05 AM

Funny you should post that rodentred. I'd just had a brief chat with my mother who watched the program with me (and doesn't drink). She was of the same opinion as me about the show describing it as "mediocre".

We did recognise that it was good to get some folk though. One theory as to the disappiontment was that maybe the BBC was trying to be too ambitious and mix too many styles and although a mix can work (I can enjoy "Later..."), on this occasion, no artist was really able to settle and get into top gear.

Overall, I suppose while I agree with the good to get folk sentiment, I would like to see it show cased at its best when we do. If some of us are whinging, I can't imagine that it created too good an impression to a wider "non folk" audience.

Jon

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: rodentred
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:44 AM

What a bunch of moaning minnies. We wait for ages to get ANY folk on mainstream BBC and then complain about it! My usual review of a night at a folk club would be worse. We should write to the BBC and thank them for doing it asking for more throughout the year.

I enjoyed the show and was relatively sober at the time, so some of the more thoughtful pieces could be appreciated. Having said that Kate looked very nervous for her first number and against the showy stage costumes of the other artistes had a pretty boring, unflattering dress. She never was a show woman.

Were Liberty X really live or just miming? Looked like the latter to me. Loved the short kilts though (ahem)

First time I had seen Blazing Fiddles and thought they were very good although might have chosen a livelier piece to kick off with.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:39 AM

CR, I never even thought to check what else was on. Would have loved to have seen Shane MacGowan.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Big Tim
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:35 AM

The music wasn't too bad. I hadn't heard Kate Rusby before and thought she sang quite well, but my not being familiar with her songs was a disadvantage. Aly and Phil looked bored out of their skulls, probably because they were. It's not their type of scene but a pay cheque is a pay cheque. Roseanne Cash is a truly excellent voice but she could have chosen more appropriate material. And where was the much heralded tribute to Johnny Cash? I must have blinked.

The presentation was awful. Jackie Bird should stick to reading the news (her false bonhomie is just a shade too false, actually it's puke-worthy) and that wee guy who was on with her should stick to whatever else it is that he does. Surely Scotland can do better than this? No wonder I drank too much!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:30 AM

So why didn't you all turn over to BBC2 and watch Jools Holland who had Shane MacGowan, Desmond Dekker and Primal Scream?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 08:17 AM

I nearly posted last night but decided against as I thought I would come in for some stick for saying what I felt but now I see I am not alone... I had not heard Kate Rusby before but because of what I had read, excpected great things. I found her a huge disappointment. As for the rest of the show, it didn't for me reach the heights I would have expected with the likes of Aly Bain and Phil Cunningham there.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 06:23 AM

Well at least the BBC had the good sense to be indoors, and by the way, as they say in Glasgow, they WERE in Glasgow (not Edinburgh) in the studio. We turned over briefly to ITV and they had hinged their whole show on the Edinburgh street party, so they were left to flannel away like demented sheep until midnight.
To those of you who delight in slagging off the show on BBC, I say
was it the Highland Park or am I just not critical enough, but I enjoyed most of the show. But where were the rest of "Blazing Fiddles", e.g. Chris Stout and Duncan Chisholm? And why did we not hear more from John McCusker? And why did we have Kate Rusby 2 years in a row? If they must have somebody English, get Eliza Carthy next year.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:55 AM

Why do the BBC feel the need to include the orchestra on everything.
eric

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:52 AM

I thought Capercaille were OK but Kate Rusby was crap! And this from an Englisman;-) Well, sort of...

In all I thought the show was reasonable considering the cancellation of the party. Good rendition of Auld Land Syne as well IMHO.

Cheers and a very happy new year to you all.

DtG

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:34 AM

Kate Rusby was a huge disappointment to me, Jackie Bird fawning over Roseanne Cash was nauseating, Blazing Fiddles were excellent, Aly Bain looked as though he wished he wasn't there, Capercaillie were crap as usual,the boy/girl group were abysmal, polite words fail me on them. As Breezy suggested, I as a Scot was totally miffed at the dumbing down aspect, the usual BBC attempt to please all of the people all of the time. In response to the comment about not being able to hear Aly for Phil, ask yourself who the musical director was :-)
Happy new year to all Mudcatters.......John

PS That dress!!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Zany Mouse
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:16 AM

Must admit I really enjoyed it, although I didn't think Kate Rusby was at her best. Don't like her new look either.

Everything else was wonderful. Thanks BBC for this Hog-Special. It must have been a nightmare to sort out at the last min.

ZM

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: breezy
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 05:06 AM

That was my first experience of K R
I was dissapointed, no stage presence, was very wooden, and her songs are not performable live, no personality, looked very nervous, whereas Cash had camera and audience appeal even if her songs were average.
Cunningham's fingers on the acordion, that was showmanship
I'm not that keen on too many tunes but that piece with Aly Bain was worth watching.
Crapper k lee do nothing for me, they are boring.
You had to be Scotish to like it but would have been miffed to have you're culture invaded by Cash and Rusby.
Where were Maclean, Gaughan or Robin Laing?

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: del boy
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 04:49 AM

I thought kate was good ,but that dress!the rest was ok but its good to see acoustic music on tv. del boy

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Manitas_at_home
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 04:08 AM

I thought that Kate was being mixed down too much. The same with Aly Bain, I couldn't hear him against Phil. There were quite a lot of acoustic instruments there and it must have been a nightmare to control the sound. Still a good show from the BBC - lots of traditional music and not a sprig of white heather in sight!

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Jan 04 - 01:56 AM

I thought it was all good except for that atrocious boy/girl pop singers, the girls needed to be scantily dressed to attract any interest.
eric

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: MairSea
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 09:07 PM

Dead right Akenaton! Have just watched and the live links to Edinburgh festivities (cancelled at last minute!) were very badly filled in IMHO! Still better than nothing I suppose eh?

From the Scot by birth and culture!!!

Lang may yer lums reek

Slainthe

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Abby Sale
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:54 PM

As I recall, BBC will sell nearly anything they've got. Check their website.

Or else the BBC-America cable network might carry it live (don't hold yer breath) or Ovation cable network might air it eventually if you ask them. They bought the entire Aly Bain "At Home" series.

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: akenaton
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 08:31 PM

What a disaster!!! As I suspected, Kate cant sing ,Rosanne murdered "my love is like a red red rose".Blazing Fiddles were good but the rest of the show was mediochre....Perhaps the cancellation of the Edinburgh street party spoiled the atmosphere   ...Ake

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: Bearheart
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 05:57 PM

Is there a way to order programs like this from the BBC if you live in the US?

Bekki

Subject: RE: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: plum
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 12:47 PM

phil cunningham and aly bain are on too.

Subject: BBC TV Hogmanay - Rusby etc
From: The Shambles
Date: 31 Dec 03 - 10:22 AM

Time to set the video for 11.50. Capercaillie - Blazin Fiddles - Kate Rusby and Roseanne Cash are set to appear on Hogmanay Live on BBC 1.