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BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings

Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 05:19 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 05:38 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jan 04 - 05:41 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM
Nigel Parsons 03 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 06:06 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 03 Jan 04 - 06:10 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 06:45 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 03 Jan 04 - 06:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jan 04 - 06:50 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 06:52 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 06:54 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 03 Jan 04 - 07:03 PM
Clinton Hammond 03 Jan 04 - 07:08 PM
catspaw49 03 Jan 04 - 07:14 PM
Murray MacLeod 03 Jan 04 - 07:18 PM
McGrath of Harlow 03 Jan 04 - 07:23 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 08:23 PM
GUEST,Chongo Chimp 03 Jan 04 - 09:16 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 03 Jan 04 - 11:15 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 03 Jan 04 - 11:24 PM
GUEST,Pict 03 Jan 04 - 11:48 PM
Clinton Hammond 03 Jan 04 - 11:56 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 01:11 AM
GUEST,Russ 04 Jan 04 - 01:16 AM
Dave the Gnome 04 Jan 04 - 05:13 AM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 04 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM
Guessed 04 Jan 04 - 08:18 AM
GUEST,Termagant 04 Jan 04 - 11:57 AM
Peg 04 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM
Little Hawk 04 Jan 04 - 01:05 PM
Amos 04 Jan 04 - 01:38 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 01:45 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jan 04 - 01:46 PM
Amos 04 Jan 04 - 02:07 PM
akenaton 04 Jan 04 - 02:23 PM
Cluin 04 Jan 04 - 02:39 PM
Amos 04 Jan 04 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,Wolfgang 04 Jan 04 - 03:34 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Jan 04 - 03:37 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 03:56 PM
Rick Fielding 04 Jan 04 - 04:12 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Jan 04 - 04:17 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM
Peace 04 Jan 04 - 05:18 PM
GUEST,sorefingers 04 Jan 04 - 05:23 PM
Guessed 04 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM
pdq 04 Jan 04 - 05:30 PM
Bobert 04 Jan 04 - 05:42 PM
Cluin 04 Jan 04 - 05:58 PM
Clinton Hammond 04 Jan 04 - 06:13 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM
Cluin 04 Jan 04 - 06:20 PM
McGrath of Harlow 04 Jan 04 - 06:20 PM
Cluin 04 Jan 04 - 06:36 PM
Gareth 04 Jan 04 - 06:45 PM
Ebbie 04 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM
Amos 04 Jan 04 - 07:47 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 04 Jan 04 - 08:03 PM
mousethief 05 Jan 04 - 12:23 AM
Seamus Kennedy 05 Jan 04 - 01:55 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 05 Jan 04 - 03:56 AM
Nigel Parsons 05 Jan 04 - 04:42 AM
GUEST 05 Jan 04 - 08:27 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 04 - 08:35 AM
GUEST,Termagant 05 Jan 04 - 09:18 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 04 - 09:41 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 05 Jan 04 - 12:17 PM
Art Thieme 05 Jan 04 - 12:19 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM
Bill D 05 Jan 04 - 01:01 PM
GUEST,heric 05 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 05 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM
GUEST 05 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM
Clinton Hammond 05 Jan 04 - 04:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jan 04 - 04:30 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 05 Jan 04 - 04:34 PM
mousethief 05 Jan 04 - 09:18 PM
Ebbie 05 Jan 04 - 10:10 PM
Cluin 05 Jan 04 - 10:18 PM
katlaughing 05 Jan 04 - 11:45 PM
Art Thieme 06 Jan 04 - 11:10 AM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 06 Jan 04 - 11:20 AM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 01:39 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 04 - 02:06 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 04 - 02:21 PM
wysiwyg 06 Jan 04 - 02:22 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 04 - 02:30 PM
katlaughing 06 Jan 04 - 02:34 PM
Clinton Hammond 06 Jan 04 - 02:54 PM
Cluin 06 Jan 04 - 03:02 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 04 - 04:25 PM
Amos 06 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM
GUEST 06 Jan 04 - 04:50 PM
Amos 06 Jan 04 - 05:07 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 05:10 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 06 Jan 04 - 06:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 06:23 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM
katlaughing 06 Jan 04 - 06:50 PM
akenaton 06 Jan 04 - 07:01 PM
GUEST,ella 06 Jan 04 - 07:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jan 04 - 08:11 PM
Big Mick 06 Jan 04 - 08:11 PM
mousethief 06 Jan 04 - 09:06 PM
Peace 06 Jan 04 - 09:22 PM
Bill D 06 Jan 04 - 11:46 PM
katlaughing 07 Jan 04 - 12:34 AM
Big Mick 07 Jan 04 - 01:25 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 07 Jan 04 - 02:40 AM
The Shambles 07 Jan 04 - 06:34 AM
GUEST 07 Jan 04 - 08:08 AM
Oaklet 07 Jan 04 - 08:23 AM
GUEST 07 Jan 04 - 10:34 AM
Art Thieme 07 Jan 04 - 10:35 AM
GUEST,satchel 07 Jan 04 - 10:47 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Bill Buethe 07 Jan 04 - 05:27 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 07 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 04 - 06:09 PM
harpgirl 07 Jan 04 - 06:12 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 07 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM
Little Hawk 07 Jan 04 - 06:48 PM
Bill D 07 Jan 04 - 07:07 PM
GUEST,ella 07 Jan 04 - 07:09 PM
Bill D 07 Jan 04 - 07:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM
GUEST,ella 07 Jan 04 - 08:22 PM
Peace 07 Jan 04 - 08:29 PM
akenaton 07 Jan 04 - 08:32 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 04 - 08:49 PM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jan 04 - 08:56 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 04 - 09:02 PM
GUEST,ella 07 Jan 04 - 09:05 PM
GUEST 07 Jan 04 - 09:19 PM
Peace 07 Jan 04 - 09:44 PM
katlaughing 07 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM
Amos 07 Jan 04 - 10:15 PM
Bill D 08 Jan 04 - 12:21 AM
GUEST,satchel 08 Jan 04 - 09:50 AM
GUEST,ella 08 Jan 04 - 01:35 PM
Peace 08 Jan 04 - 02:02 PM
GUEST,Paranoid Android 08 Jan 04 - 02:18 PM
Bill D 08 Jan 04 - 02:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Jan 04 - 03:14 PM
GUEST,Paranoid Android 08 Jan 04 - 03:46 PM
GUEST,A GUEST!! Maeve Slattery 08 Jan 04 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 08 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 08 Jan 04 - 06:18 PM
GUEST,A GUEST!! Maeve Slattery 09 Jan 04 - 09:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jan 04 - 09:52 AM
GUEST 09 Jan 04 - 12:17 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 10 Jan 04 - 12:25 AM
Peace 10 Jan 04 - 12:40 AM
GUEST 12 Jan 04 - 06:49 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 12 Jan 04 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,heric 12 Jan 04 - 04:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Jan 04 - 04:38 PM
GUEST,heric 12 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Jan 04 - 05:25 PM
GUEST,Cookies are the spawn of the devil 12 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM
Jeri 12 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM
Big Mick 12 Jan 04 - 06:00 PM
GUEST,heric 12 Jan 04 - 06:25 PM
Big Mick 12 Jan 04 - 06:49 PM
GUEST,heric 12 Jan 04 - 07:06 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 12 Jan 04 - 07:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 12 Jan 04 - 08:30 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 12 Jan 04 - 09:24 PM
The Shambles 13 Jan 04 - 10:33 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 13 Jan 04 - 11:13 AM
Amos 13 Jan 04 - 11:26 AM
Peg 13 Jan 04 - 03:08 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 13 Jan 04 - 09:15 PM
Amos 13 Jan 04 - 09:39 PM
Ebbie 13 Jan 04 - 09:48 PM
The Shambles 14 Jan 04 - 06:38 PM
GUEST,yellow belly 14 Jan 04 - 07:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM
GUEST 14 Jan 04 - 08:12 PM
Jeri 14 Jan 04 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,yellow belly 14 Jan 04 - 08:40 PM
artbrooks 14 Jan 04 - 09:08 PM
Little Hawk 14 Jan 04 - 10:17 PM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 15 Jan 04 - 07:17 AM
GUEST, heric 15 Jan 04 - 12:20 PM
Bill D 15 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM
GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River 15 Jan 04 - 06:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Jan 04 - 07:43 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 15 Jan 04 - 09:29 PM
Amos 15 Jan 04 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River 15 Jan 04 - 11:25 PM
Amos 15 Jan 04 - 11:31 PM
The Shambles 16 Jan 04 - 05:21 AM
GUEST,forever undulating 16 Jan 04 - 07:22 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 16 Jan 04 - 07:49 AM
McGrath of Harlow 16 Jan 04 - 07:51 AM
Amos 16 Jan 04 - 08:49 AM
The Shambles 16 Jan 04 - 10:28 AM
Thomas the Rhymer 16 Jan 04 - 10:56 AM
The Shambles 16 Jan 04 - 08:01 PM
Thomas the Rhymer 16 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM
Cluin 17 Jan 04 - 01:42 AM
The Shambles 17 Jan 04 - 04:46 AM
GUEST,Jim Knowledge 17 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM
The Shambles 17 Jan 04 - 09:20 AM
The Shambles 18 Jan 04 - 04:17 AM
freda underhill 18 Jan 04 - 07:53 AM
GUEST,back to the top 18 Jan 04 - 09:52 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 18 Jan 04 - 10:02 PM
Ella who is Sooze 16 Feb 04 - 04:25 AM

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Subject: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:19 PM

Conspicular put downs, irritation the craftings
Provocateur frowns, and feast throught the fastings
To grasp at your goat, thus to trip inspirations
Will rock your fine boat, and resist revelations.

These cowards will sneak, these cowards will slight
The anonymous speak, not of love or delight
Surreptitiously vulgar, these vultures attack
And shoot as an orge, the truth in the back

With snappy invective, no research is needed
To disrupt the effective, keeps the hearld unheeded
These guests will respect, only squandering quench
Their thirst but a durst, their truth but a stench

To revel disorder, and ravel remorse
They stradle the border, of an unseemly course
Resenting upstanding, in spirit and kind
This nameless resounding, from bowers that bind...
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:38 PM

Have you ever had any of your poetry published, Thomas ?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:41 PM

This rhyme seems to echo "The Rhymer's" frustration
With Guests posts which are a self-justification
And tho' I approve of his rhyming oration
The 'count' does not match his syllabification

And tho' he condemns them all, roundly, as 'pests'
Their writings are littered with learning and jests
And so, then, no matter how Thomas protests
As hosts we must treat them, politely, as Guests


Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM

Methinks that the Rhymer doth loudly protest
To curry good favour with all of the rest
Who vilify Guests and their interesting posts.
They signify least who bellow the most.

Piece of piss, took me 30 seconds and I didn't even have to make up my own words ...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 05:56 PM

Murray:

Which words of mine or TTR's appear 'made up'?

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:06 PM

Some genius there is, in a safer place haven
In some of GUEST's biz, not all of it's craven
But neither is mention, of name an abhorrence
Or cause for detention for Arabia's Lawrence

Fault finders rally, for nonsense contagious
And band it all up, for the nameless outrageous
But guts and then pride, will have little to do
With a blindsiding chide, and no name to eschew...
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:10 PM

Roses are red
Violets are blue
Monkeys stink
And so does your poetry! :-)

Seriously, kiddo. Don't quit your day job quite yet.

Yeah, anonymous messages are like a bad case of fleas. Annoying and hard to trace to their hiding places. But I never met a flea yet that wrote poetry as topheavy as yours, buster. I bet you don't talk to the hatcheck girl that way. It wouldn't get you too far, I can tell you that. She'd probably just say..."What????"...and give you a weird look, then hand back your hat with a sneer and say, "Conspiculate that, Roscoe."

CC


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM

See what I mean, you impecable boar...
As one critic will glean, another wants no more
But as poet, I know it I'll never make money
For my work when I show it, is but milk and honey

The day job for me is much better than art
And many agree that your music's a fart
So sit there and hate... and love is your loss
Or with me relate, and we'll need us no boss

So flirt with the ladies each in his own way
Or just sit and beratie the things that I say
But cynics are stupid to those who enjoy
The fine eye of cupid... tis all may enjoy!
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:45 PM

Nigel,

"orge", "hearld", "stradle", and "durst" leap off the screen.

There may be more, but reading Thomas' "poetry" hurts my brain too much.

And before anybody leaps in to say that "durst" is a participle of the verb "to dare", yes, I do know that, but it has no meaning in Thomas' little oeuvre.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:48 PM

I gotta admire your vocabulary, Bub, but I still say you need to brush up on the poetry technique. For instance, it's bad form to end the last 2 lines in a poem with the same word..."enjoy". A 5th Grader would know that. You gotta come up with a different word for one of them lines...like "toy" or "boy" or "ploy".

Here's my suggestion:

But cynics are stupid to those who employ
The fine eye of cupid, which all may enjoy!

Betcha didn't think I had it in me, didja? Also, "impeccable" has two "C"'s. Just the the good old USA, only they're in the middle instead of one on each side.

CC


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:50 PM

Now GUESTS with a name can be well worth perusing,
And much that they write is informed or amusing;
But those who insist on declining all handles
Persistently tend to become vicious vandals.
And even when nameless GUESTS write something wise
They soon get confused with the rancorous cries
Of venom exuded by some nameless clone
Who is ready and willing to cast the first stone.

And if you decide to reply to some ghost
It's essential to add date and time of their post,
To avoid the confusion of multiple GUESTS
Who all use the same name, so it gets in a mess.
And the moral of this isn't hard to explain,
It's that manners dictate friendly GUESTS use a name.
Be it ever so fleeting, be it quite evanescent,
A name makes a thread more straightforward and pleasant.

So all GUESTS are welcome, of that there's no question,
So long as they're willing to take that suggestion -
And as for the rest, they just spoil my digestion.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:52 PM

Chongo, fer chrissakes don't offer constructive literary criticism, you will only encourage him to grind out some more doggerel ....


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 06:54 PM

Trust Kevin to ruin this thread by posting a clever and well written piece....


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:03 PM

Ha! You made me laugh right out loud, Murray. Thanks. I needed that. It's been a tough week.

McGrath, you are dead right. These jerks who can't even be bothered to type any kind of a name to go with their posts need a cold gat stuck in their face once in a while to make 'em sober up and talk straight for a change and show some ID.

And, McGrath...that was good poetry you just did. If another one of my pals buys the Big One, I am gonna call you up to do his epitaph.

CC


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:08 PM

Only people who don't know any better think there's such a thing as internet anonymity...

And well, how is posting as GUEST any different from posting under an obvious nick-name?

TtR just needs something to whine and suck about...

I mean, as I said elsewhere.. it's just the internet...   Why make it seem to be important?

Take only what you want, and leave the rest for someone else...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: catspaw49
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:14 PM

Hey Clinton!   Your shit don't rhyme man!!! Took me a long time to read it 'cause I kept trying to make it rhyme.........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:18 PM

Clinton's shit rhymes better than Thomas' shit


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 07:23 PM

That's as may be - but his posts don't.

(In a rhyming thread I think they oughter -
and it makes the posts a whole lot shorter.)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 08:23 PM

Clinton's complaining betrays her ambitions
By crassly detaining, she deleats additions
While Murray insists, I'm foul and a headache
And my 'day job' exists, as a last resort mistake

I'f you met me you'd know in a matter of minutes
That the ire you show is a waste to begin with
But you measure all meaning with muscle and might
On an internet seething with alure and a fight.

Take you a gander, and open it uppence
A mindful intender, instead of resentence
Give it a rest all, this slicker sharpshooting
Where is your best call, for worldly rerouting?
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 09:16 PM

Who says I'm resentful, ttr? I don't resent you at all, just havin' a little fun. Look, buddy, when your office and your car get blown sky high, your favorite eatery gets blasted to hell, and your friends get rubbed out right and left you don't get mad over some lousy poetry. I'm just gettin' some light entertainment at your expense here is all. You think your stuff is bad? You oughta have heard Big Daddy singin' "Big Rock Candy Mountain" and "Bluetail Fly"! If you had, you would know what's bad...

Now as for Clinton and "her" ambitions...I have seen mug shots of Clinton, ttr. If Clinton is a "she" then I am a bald albino rhesus monkey carrying twin koala bear cubs, and I ain't. Clinton as a "she" would be the biggest shock to the world since seeing Ma Barker in the nude packin' a blazing tommy gun. Such things you don't wanna ever see, not even when you've got the DT's. Trust me.

CC


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM

Nice try, GUEST... Clinton is probably just a handle for a housewife aspirant who secretly tries on macho... ;^)

All I have to do is PM my password, and anyone can post under my 'handle'... Or then again, anyone can post as a 'named' GUEST anytime...

So, that GUEST on post 20 was probably Clinton, posing as a GUEST... But remember, "Clinton" just a handle...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:15 PM

Worst of all poetry I have ever read, actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:24 PM

Coming from you, martin, I'll take it as a compliment!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Pict
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:48 PM

Oh please stop
your pooh etry is a flop
it really is the crud of the crop
and like ordure rhymes do plop
like so much runny slop
and it's stinking every drop
I think it's time you got the chop
Guests would be glad to lop
sad Thomas the malaprop
a PLOOK that needs to POP.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 03 Jan 04 - 11:56 PM

Clinton is not just a handle... ask my mom...

Or ask the mudcatter's who've met me...

TtR... it's another example of you being a overwraught spaz... And casting stones from your own glass house...

Oh ya... rhyming poetry sucks...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:11 AM

That's what makes horse racing... Well then...

Cool, Clinton... I've heard good things 'bout your music... But... do you sing songs that don't rhyme?

Frankly though, I have no preference as to whether my poetry is good or not... I toss together the words within a few spare minutes and I do it for the process... keeps my craft alive... kinda like a writer persues crossword puzzles. Are they really so worthy of comment? My songs, however, are actually constructed with care...

'sbeen fun! ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:16 AM

As guest bashings go this is way more interesting than the usual.

But it's only January 4.

It's going to be a long year.

Russ (incorrigible GUEST)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:13 AM

Anyone here a Vogon by any chance?

:D


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM

Of the major folk forums this is the only one I know that permits GUEST postings. People who have a problem with GUEST postings have an easy solution: use a members only forum.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Guessed
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:18 AM

Who are you calling a coward?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Termagant
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:57 AM

"People who have a problem with GUEST postings have an easy solution: use a members only forum."

While you offer an elegant solution to those who are obviously disturbed by the presence of anonymous forum users Peter, I'm sure you realize the reason so many members use this forum exclusively. They get their daily passive/aggressive fix here. Can you think of any other folk forums where members would be allowed to constantly and routinely attack, belittle, and so persistently harp about a specific group of forum users with impunity?

Dysfunctional passive/aggressive personalities are richly rewarded here. That is why they stay and continue to multiply. No other folk forums on the internet will have them.

As to the "poetry". I wouldn't call it that. I'm voting with the side that says we shouldn't encourage this sort of thing.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peg
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 11:58 AM

Methinks it's amusing and not a little sad,
to spend time perusing and labelling as 'bad'
words that so clearly are meant as a lark,
(an exaltation, say) fuelled by the spark
of a spirit who's generally laid-back and gentle,
(if he were a soup,I think he'd be lentil).


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:05 PM

Excellent, Peg! Now we're getting somewhere.

Termagant, you may be right about the passive-aggressive thing...in some cases. If so, this forum is providing a public service to the very people you mention. But I think there's a far simpler explanation. The regulars come here simply because they are already used to coming here, that's all, and they've gotten to know other people here that they enjoy talking to. In my case, this is the only music forum I've ever visited. Period. It's the only forum of any kind I've spent any significant amount of time on. Mostly I enjoy it. I'm blissfully unaware of what it's like on the various other Internet forums, because I haven't been to them. Therefore, any convoluted explanation for the psychological garbage that supposedly resides behind my decision to keep logging onto this forum is mere whistling in the dark.

I have no objection to the idea of a forum that has "Guests". Some people here do. Well, from what you say it sounds like there are any number of other places they could go and be "guest-free", but I guess they are so used to being here that they don't want to.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:38 PM

Guests as such are generally welcome throughout Mudcatland, when they are civil.

It is anonymous hatred and its various derivative forms (sniping, vituperation, carping, criticism, generalization of badness, etc ad nauseam) which are not.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:45 PM

A goof and a lark, and at little expense
In minutes but few, of brain I'm just dense
And sad yes it is, that the legions are many
Who burn up the bridge, and set fires a'plenty

So who on a lark can let on in expression
That biters will bark, and live for digression
Without stirring about, the essential confusion
That is living in doubt, and enjoys the illusion
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 01:46 PM

I suggest,
member or GUEST,
that this one time,
it might be best
to stick to rhyme -
give prose a rest.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:07 PM

Dear Lord, protect us from chicanery,
From idle snipers, and inanery
From those who choose to spend their time
Concocting reams of tepid rhyme;
But most of all, from those who would
Pervert a forum meant for good,
And thus corrupt our faint divinity
With foulness cloaked in anonymity!



Amen


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:23 PM

Amos...Your more of a poet than a phylosopher.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:39 PM

Nothing has changed at all.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 02:43 PM

Great line, there, Cluin!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:34 PM

Just to help Spaw, I repost Clinton's poem with the line breaks added at the proper places and one obviously missing word inserted:

Only people who don't know any bet-
ter think there's such a thing as internet
anonymity...And well, how is posting
as GUEST any different from posting
under an obvious nick-name? TtR just needs
something to whine and suck about...I mean,
as I said elsewhere.. it's just the internet...
Why make it seem to be important? Take
only what you want, and
leave the rest for someone elses hand).

with a tiny bit more of extra effort, Clinton,...

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:37 PM

WG... ya gotta get a life eh....

;-)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 03:56 PM

In other words, the bully pulpit that unaccountability on the net offers to the cronicly stupid is far more destructive than we are willing to acknowledge. I rhyme for fun, and I couldn't care less what it means to you. I appear gentle, because kicking the shite out of people just makes more trouble than it's worth, and does not inspire true genius... only reactive BS... which is about as valuable in the long run as a good spit in the wind. If it's your manhood that you are asserting here, well then... I'll take reality any day to this cyber-not atropy... this macho nonsense proves nothing but it's own negation.... unless you come around to the obvious point that... it is way more manly to create compassion and be real... Yes, even here on the net, where no one knows your true weaknesses...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:12 PM

I WAS gonna write sumthin' but the picture in my mind of Clinton as a female has put me off my feed.

rick


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:17 PM

"does not inspire true genius"

Like you'd know anything about it....

" it is way more manly to create compassion and be real..."

When has reality ever been anything even close to compassionate?

The point is, if ya don't like guests, get off Mudcat...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM

This forum ain't big enough for the two of us... get out of town before sunrise tomorrow, or you are gonna be pushin up daisys... ;^)

Yeh, you're right Clinton... I don't know anything about it... I just get lucky sometimes and do it... and so do you. If you don't inspire people, then what do you do? ...lead the league in penalties?

I do enjoy the guests sometimes... but flamers don't make this place excellent... or even interesting...

WOW! Seattle Seahawks just got kicked out of the playoffs by a headful of dreads! Oh well maybe next year!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:18 PM

Calling a sheep a dog will not make it bark. (I have no idea what it means, but it seemed to fit.)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:23 PM

"Dysfunctional passive/aggressive personalities are richly rewarded here. That is why they stay and continue to multiply. No other folk forums on the internet will have them."

Please post the URLs


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Guessed
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM

Calling a dance a "strip the willow" won't make it bark either. But it might make it enjoyable.

if you want an open system you have to accept the crud. If you want a closed system "include me out".

There is a long and well documented tradion (that makes it folk) of a certain perentage of the populace being misanthropic. They basically don't like themselves too much but love themselves too much. So they belittle those who seem to accept themselves warts and all. That way they feel a little more likeable by comparison. They are wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: pdq
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:30 PM

This will never be called Mudcat's finest hour.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bobert
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:42 PM

In the past I have come to the defense of GUEST's and will make no exception here. Like one of them pointed out, if you don't want to read 'em you can filter 'em out with doing the "memebers only" thing. I enjoy as many of their posts as I do the posts of members. Membership doesn't necessary exempt one from sayin' dumb stuff. Heck, I've been known to say some dumb stuff.

I guess in a perfect world, folks wouldn't have their reasons for wanting to maintain their anominity (sp) but this ain't no perfect world...

Now with that said, ttr, yer still the man when it comes to rhymin', no doubt, but jus' 'cause stuff rhymes don't make it 100% correct.

I loves arithmaticee
It's the best as far as I can see
And so helpful in my life
Knowin' one and one is three

See what I mean..

But, yeah, I know you was jus' opinionizin' an' all that's all I done here but...

... I like GUEST's 'cept...

... the real jerks.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 05:58 PM

Could just be a jerk, Bobert.

And one person could have several Mudcat name identities.

It's not worth getting all het up about. "It's just the internet", as my friend Clint said.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:13 PM

"the picture in my mind of Clinton as a female has put me off my feed"

Oh admit it Rick F... yer just a LITTLE bit curious!

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM

We're all guests here... but some of us are more equal than others... We all have our cup o tea... our mudcat personality... enjoy! Woof! Woof! Baa! Baa! Ah for one and one for Ah!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:20 PM

But a female what?

You shouldn't be picturing stuff like that, RF! It can't be good for you. Close your eyes and go to your Happy Place... go to your Happy Place...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:20 PM

How many threads about GUESTS have we had in our time?
This one was different, for Thomas commenced it in rhyme.
It slows down the posting, but that's not a cause for dismay,
If the tussle with words makes us think more about what we say.

Perhaps it's too hard, or it's just too much trouble to take -
But to post in a hurry can easily be a mistake.
When we feel we must say what so often has been said before
Why not say it in rhyme? At least then it won't be such a bore.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:36 PM

When a thread had commenced
Wherein posts were in verse,
I felt to add my two cents
Would not make things worse

So I put in my time
And at the end of the day,
I had worked out my rhyme
But had fuck-all to say


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Gareth
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 06:45 PM

Ahem, calling a Dog a Sheep might lead to severe lacerations of the male member, but to continue in the best traditions of South Wales.

"Anon guest went to post,
His message to the Nation,
But he could not write his own name,
All he got was inflamation !"

"Have you ever saw etc...."

Gareth


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM

Thread veer: One might not be able to make a sheep bark like a dog, McGrath, but I have been barked at by a deer. Amazing thing to experience. She was standing on the other side of a deep, narrow gully, obviously warning a young'un that there was an unknown afoot. She knew I was close by but because I didn't move, she couldn't locate me. The sides of her breast and belly went in and out like a quick bellows and her mouth opened as the hoarse bark sounded.

This was soon after I quit smoking and I've never forgotten that it would never have happened in my smoking days. That was enough reward right there.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 07:47 PM

A Nameless name's as much a name
As a nickname, if you'd druther
But namelessness obscures the souls
Who speak, from one another!
This adds to all their rhetoric
A factor most distressing
Not knowing who is sending spite,
Or who deserves the blessing.
When venom comes from no-one known
And none can say who sends it
It seems to come from all the world
And blacks the hand that pens it.
Who thinks in cleverness and guile
His missives to be sending
Does never gain his wanted smile
But ends, instead, offending
Thus Guest, I prithee, an' thou wilt,
An end to put to scandal
Give o'er with this nameless guilt,
And find thyself a handle.

Aloysius Codicilius Modemus,
1939


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 04 Jan 04 - 08:03 PM

Bravo! Amos... Bravo! Crafty and creative...
And my immensely manly poet's ego has just been proved unsated...

Write On, Dude!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:23 AM

Some hide behind anonymity and shoot poisoned darts. I've met Thomas the Rhymer and although his off-the-cuff poetry is pretty bad, his guitar playing and singing are jaw-droppingly good. Thus regardless of the fact that "Thomas the Rhymer" is a pseudonym, he is not anonymous and, by the fact of showing up at at least one Mudcat Gathering, he puts his identity where his mouth is.

Poetry that rhymes can be pretty bad, but at least ... you can tell it's poetry.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 01:55 AM

There once was a GUEST from the Azores
Whose c**t was all festered with sores.
The dogs in the street
Used to eat the green meat
That hung in festoons from her drawers.

No wait! This should be in the Dirty Limerick thread.

Sorry.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 03:56 AM

Aw Shucks, Mousethief... You are certainly well intended in your exagerations, and you can sing and play wonderfully...

There once was a member named Seamus
Who's limerick was sent for to ream us
In Pocapagian ways
The donkey whistles, the master brays
But still nothing could come quite between us... ;^)

The third and fourth lines are from "The Count's Beard". ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:42 AM

You can't make a sheep bark!, that's not right.
And I'm certain that I have the proof.
You douse it with petrol, and then add a light.
And that's when you hear it go WOOF

Nigel


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:27 AM

This whole guest thin is getting to be a huge bore..I post here often as a guest, I do not insilt people or rant about political issues. I used to come here just to enjoy the winderful and knowledable conversation about all sorts of thins. However, this forum has become increasingly narrow and self important of late..I certainly feel unwelcome and will perhaps just stop cheking in. It seems to me That a lot of the ranting here is against guests, not by guests. Perhaps some growing up is in order, this is a small music forum, not the centre of the universe.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 08:35 AM

I count to ten, then say again,
that GUESTS as such are blameless.
In general GUESTS are far from pests,
- it's the odd ones who are nameless.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Termagant
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 09:18 AM

"In other words, the bully pulpit that unaccountability on the net offers to the cronicly stupid is far more destructive than we are willing to acknowledge."

Really? How so? It would be ever so helpful if you could be specific. As another guest has noted, these generalized sorts of 'I hate anon guests' rants are not only counter-productive, but a bore.

Except for those who wish to draw attention to the fact that they've been insulted by someone they can't call names (and so tar and feather an entire class of people instead) for purposes of getting their revenge against the insulter, just what is it that is so destructive that is happening here?

Last time I checked, I'd never heard of one single person ever having been killed or maimed by an insult.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 09:41 AM

You can't have checked very thoroughly.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:17 PM

I would have titled this thread "On the cowardly nature of some Guest postings", but the word 'some' didn't fit into the little thread title box... so I had to risk insulting all the billions of GUESTs in the world... sorry 'bout that everyone... ;^)

C'mon... don't mince, and don't split hairs... just for a moment here... and get the obvious notion... Don't be rude dude. K?

later...! ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Art Thieme
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:19 PM

Somehow, Guest postings on some numerous occasions feel to me like someone just gave me the finger from their speeding car. It's hard to take as serious criticism, but they do manage to piss me off on a visceral level more often than the folks I know and have come to enjoy and admire as real people here.

ART THIEME (my John Hancock)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM

The heading maybe caused some people to see
This thread as more angry than it set out to be.
And then they jump in with a shout and a roar,
Without waiting to read what's been written before.
And sometimes they rage about things no one said,
Or perhaps they just got out the wrong side of bed,
And in words so prosaic they lay all about -
Soft words carry better, there's no need to shout.
No, there's no need to shout and there's no need to scream. -
Lewis Carroll wrote truly - "What is life but a dream?"


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 01:01 PM

I can't write good pomes, but I can Google purty well...

I found this musing on anonymity

for those who don't wanna click, it includes this:

"...Another point raised as a negative aspect of anonymity is that if we are anonymous, we are not accountable for our actions. This, too, is a red herring in my opinion. Since nobody can have any knowledge of who we "really" are anyway, without meeting us, since I never would have known that Jerry was Jerry if he hadn't chosen to reveal it, in what sense does the name I choose to represent me in Erato impact my accountability? Assuming that staff has never considered the option of actually hunting down and physically punishing people who act like idiots in the forums, then whether or not I reveal my true identity herein is irrelevant.

The name I go by is accountable, and that's as accountable as it will ever get, on the net. It doesn't matter what name I use: the name is "me" in here, and you may hold the name accountable for my actions, it's one and the same thing. If you ban me, by banning my name, you've held me accountable. If I manage to get back in by putting on a new name, we start the dance all over again. That's the net. Who I "really am" is irrelevant: I am what I do, in here, and that's the great thing about the net, and also the worst thing."

**MY** point in posting this is that, as most complaints about "guest" posts have noted, the major issue is keeping various 'guests' separate, and NOT in knowing their true identity. I can have a debate with "Termagant", whether I agree with him/her or not...but it is really hard to debate or reply to a set of words at "X" o'clock, and it is rude to expect us to keep track. Calling US rude and 'unfriendly' to guests, when the guests created the problem begs the question.

There are indeed reasons to not be a cookied MEMBER, and we have a number of regular posters who adopt a regular nom de plume and participate in 'almost' all the functions of the forum. I can live with that...I'm disappointed that I can't PM them, but I can shrug if that's the way they feel.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM

And then they jump in with a shout and a roar,
Without waiting to read what's been written before

and before and before and before and before.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM

People who use their real names here are no better, knowledgable, or interesting than ones who do not. I really don't give a rat's ass who anyone here really is. There is truly no real celebraties here that I can say make this place any more cooler. "Real" names of musicians and fans in other parts of the world other than America BORE me. I am interested in American folk, country, and bluegrass music. If you have something interesting or informative to say, I can dig that.

Actually, what us guests really know, is that this place is not such a big part of our lives as it is to the regulars. We are obviously not as dependent on a place like this forum to make our lives have fulfillment. We meet people in person and talk to them face to face. Some us GUESTS absolutely prefer to stay a complete mystery to you, love music as much if not more than you, and have a better time keeping our reality and vitual reality separate.

I am only Martin Gibson here and that is just fine with me. I have been a musician for 40 years, know a lot about music, and am willing to share what I know with you.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM

your choice. Many who come here (both members and guests) DO meet face to face - or know each other outside of and/or BEFORE Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:16 PM

"I really don't give a rat's ass who anyone here really is"
Here frigg'n here!

"what us guests really know, is that this place is not such a big part of our lives as it is to the regulars"
As I said before... it's JUST the internet... nothing to warrent getting yer knickers in a knot over eh...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:30 PM

Bill D's clear summary once again:

"**MY** point in posting this is that, as most complaints about "guest" posts have noted, the major issue is keeping various 'guests' separate, and NOT in knowing their true identity. I can have a debate with "Termagant", whether I agree with him/her or not...but it is really hard to debate or reply to a set of words at "X" o'clock, and it is rude to expect us to keep track. Calling US rude and 'unfriendly' to guests, when the guests created the problem begs the question."

I copied that in here again, from Bill D a couple of posts back, because I get the impression from Martin Gibson's post that he might not have read it, and be labouring under the mistaken (but often falsely asserted) impression that there is some sort of antagonism towards GUESTS as such:

I repost that, it puts it all so fairly,
and Martin Gibson's post reads like he missed it.
The trouble isn't GUESTS whose labels clearly
identify when him or her has posted.
"Non-cookies"? Why, they're welcomed here, sincerely.
Though not so welcome those who have persisted...
But why repeat what's oft been said so clearly?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 04:34 PM

Why? Because we like you!   M O U S E


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 09:18 PM

Yes?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Ebbie
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:10 PM

Take a bow, MT. LOL

BTW, saying that it's "just the internet" rings falsely. One can say "just my wife" or "just my two-year-old" or "just my past" or "just my world" but each of those things has validity whether one will ever know them or not. People meeting via the internet are "meeting" just as truly as by mail or through catalogues or even on the telephone. MO


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 10:18 PM

If you give it more importance than it deserves you're setting yourself up for a big fall. It's best to have a healthy sense of humour and a bit of perspective when surfing, even in an open forum that some people consider a "community". You can make it a gated community but that's no fun and not very instructive. Or you can leave things open and not get so bent out of shape and hooked in everytime someone tries to yank your chain. It is "just the Internet".

And out here, we is all stoned immaculate...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: katlaughing
Date: 05 Jan 04 - 11:45 PM

What a crock
Or is it a psycho-ceramic?
Here we go again
All het up in a panic.
To quote BillD, *sigh*

brucie, caught me LMAO, again, with another one-liner! You, too, Rick!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Art Thieme
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 11:10 AM

Thanks for the middle digit, MartyG. I, too, have learned to consider the source. You maintain and retain an intersting level of admiration from me as well.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 11:20 AM

Cluin

You absolutely DO get it!

So do I!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 01:10 PM

the phrase "just the internet" is fascinating. It seems to imply that there are no real people behind it. I refer you to Ebbie's post above....
If you get a letter from someone which insults you or belittles your religion, mother or school, is that "just a letter"? How about the same remarks made in a telephone call? What about if they are on stage and see you in the audience and make the same remarks over the PA system?

Yeah, it is possible to 'not open' a thread, but sometimes you have read the upsetting stuff before you realize what it is about...is it any less real because you can't SEE the author?

Quite apart from whether one should allow one's "chain to be yanked", it is fascinating how some people USE the internet to unleash aspects of their personality that they 'probably' do not show in **reality**. Why do folks use anonymity or psuedonyms to troll, ridicule, bait, insult, complain, disparage etc., in ways that they would probably not do if they met someone at a party?

I have no problem with 'Martin Gibson' as a guest name, any more than catspaw or SINSULL or Pene Azul. The name could be used either as a member, or, as he chooses, as a non-member. If the name is merely to keep a real name private , he 'could' be a member without revealing that real name, but, as he says, it makes little difference in matters like discussing Bluegrass songs. The issue, and the only real issue is that often, anonymity is used to insult and threaten and hurt.. and to post long, tedious rants (like 'ol "Dreaded Guest" from Texas"). I DO have a problem with THAT!

This is a big world, and we have widely different opinions and VERY different ways of expressing them. We have 'members' whose identity is well known, and couldn't care less if the forum knows what they think, and we have NON-members with names who do care...and several other combinations...but it soon becomes evident who has a chip-on-the-shoulder attitude and disdain for the opinions and feelings of others. Can't stop that, I guess, but YOU are real, whether we know who you are- or not, and what you say DOES affect folks in whose company it is said--VT or RT. If you wanta make lots of those comments negative, sarcastic, hurtful ones, expect replies in a similar vein.

Bill Day...Wheaton, MD.,USA ...come by and we'll PLAY some music (or debate, if you'd prefer)...I play autoharp.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 01:39 PM

(I do need to acknowlege that in print, whether it is handwritten or cyberspace, it can be tricky to 'see' how a comment was meant...some folks are just more 'blunt' than others.

I like to be understood in the spirit I post. For this reason, I pepper my posts with italics, underlinings, UPPERCASE, *grins*, smilies ;>), and other things, in an attempt to 'sound' like I would speak....I LIKE to appear real, even in this environment)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:06 PM

"...it is fascinating how some people USE the internet to unleash aspects of their personality that they 'probably' do not show in **reality**. "

Some people are nastier than they ever would be in real life - and some are probably nicer than they'd dare to be. The way drink often seems to bring out the real person.

Are the false selves on the Internet actually the true selves?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:21 PM

"It seems to imply that there are no real people behind it."

In your opinion. In my opinion, the phrase "it is just the internet" means that it is silly to waste life's precious time and energy thinking/believing that you can hold individuals accountable in chat forums like this or Usenet. It is akin to saying "life is too short" or "don't sweat the small stuff". Those are good pieces of advice if you are going to post in open chat forums or Usenet.

"If you get a letter from someone which insults you or belittles your religion, mother or school, is that "just a letter"?"

Yes, although I assume (you didn't specify) you are referring to a letter that is either anonymous, or pseudonymous. Why would it make you feel safer or more at ease, knowing the name of the person who insults you?

"Yeah, it is possible to 'not open' a thread, but sometimes you have read the upsetting stuff before you realize what it is about...is it any less real because you can't SEE the author?"

It is no one's responsibility but your own to edit what you don't want to read online. Don't like it? Don't read it. Period.

No "And sometimes..." or "what if..." or "but what if someone says...". That is just childish.

"Why do folks use anonymity or psuedonyms to troll, ridicule, bait, insult, complain, disparage etc., in ways that they would probably not do if they met someone at a party?"

Same reason people who use their real names do it.

"The issue, and the only real issue is that often, anonymity is used to insult and threaten and hurt.. and to post long, tedious rants (like 'ol "Dreaded Guest" from Texas")."

Members do this quite often as well, and a person's proclivity towards such behavior has nothing whatsoever with real names, pseudonyms, or anonymity. That is YOUR bias and misperception

"I DO have a problem with THAT!"

But it is YOUR problem, not everyone's. Nor should you try to make YOUR problem, MY problem.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:22 PM

It's not just particular to the internet. People are equally filtered when they write a letter to the editor, or a column, or a group letter for Christmas or whatever... and it's not just particular to print, either-- phone messages can be somewhat artificial, too.

What makes it less than a full representation of the person is one's awareness that one is speaking in a public setting where people may actually be paying attention.... one communicates with a different sense of awareness than might occur in a private communication.

Not so different from how one might dress in public.... vs. how one might dress in private.

And the misunderstandings can happen similarly.

For instance, say Hardi (who owns the debit card) goes online to get me some lingerie. Ya'll know I'm a big 'un. Are they gonna see the man's name as purchaser and assume he's going to wear the stuff???? Three years later, will he still be getting spam from the cross-dressers' vendors!? I'll let you know how it goes-- we have our first purchase pending now! :~)

Not sure "cowardly" applies as much as one might assume. But I do think some people especially want to make use of the opportunity to hide what they are really about, and that the internet environment draws them into a deeper involvement and practice of that, than might other media.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:30 PM

Scary thing about poison pen letters by snail mail is that it means the creep knows where you actually live. At least, that applies in places where the mail come to our front doors, rather than to some Box Number. Stuff coming through the Internet may be equally distasteful, and indicate the same kind of nastiness at the other end, but it's not quite the same.

You know WYSIWYG, there's the makings of a great comic saga in that example you gave. Perhaps a monologue rather than a song...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:34 PM

Why would it make you feel safer or more at ease, knowing the name of the person who insults you? Why, yes, logical as that may seem, esp. in the case of a threatening letter, phone call, etc. Difficult to protect oneself if one cannot name their enemy.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 02:54 PM

MGoH...

I hate to tell you... but if you're online, and posting on a message board or visiting a chat room... just about anyone with the intelligence of the average brain-damaged monkey can find your IP number, trace it to your internet provider and find out exactly where you live...

That's what I meant when I said above that internet anonymity is an illusion... and not even a very good one at that...

---------------------------------------

GUEST 06 Jan 04 - 02:21 PM...

I grock ya... I really really do!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 03:02 PM

I understand all that, BillD. I just think you have the choice to not let an attack (from either an anonymous GUEST or a named member) derail a thread. Because it really doesn't matter all that much. It's all just words on a screen--typed by real people certainly, but they don't "live" here 24/7. Neither do you. It's just not that big a deal; take the good that you can get from it and forget the rest.

I've watched concise, constructive posts (both by GUESTs and members) pass pretty much ignored in worthwhile threads, while spurious one-liner attacks garner far more attention than they deserve, with the result being that the thread turns into one long bicker. Then the "anti-GUEST" rant resurfaces.

Remember when your mom told you to ignore a pest or bully and maybe he'll get bored and go away? Well, that could actually work here.

And my name is Rick Deevey and I live in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario and I'd like to play music with you too (or anyone else here) some time. And I'd consider that time spent far more valuable than any time spent on the internet at all (although this is a very good place to come... one of the best I've found. Thanks, Max).

Have a good day, all!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 04:25 PM

I wrote:

"Why would it make you feel safer or more at ease, knowing the name of the person who insults you?"

and a member responded with:

"Why, yes, logical as that may seem, esp. in the case of a threatening letter, phone call, etc. Difficult to protect oneself if one cannot name their enemy."

First, I can't even agree with you that someone insulting me is my enemy. Your choice of the word 'enemy' reveals a lot about your personal level of paranoia, though.

Many years ago, while I was an adolescent, our family received threatening, obscene, anonymous phone calls for months. Yes, we were frightened. However, the police were able to finally trace the calls, and found the perpetrator. I never for one instant, wanted to know the man's identity. Nor did any of my family members. It was enough for us to know the creep was caught.

I note that no one here has even suggested that level of threat is being made against anyone here, so why the defensive, paranoid attitudes of so many members about identities?

I don't expect it to change, because the behavior is no different than the mass meida obsession with identity, ie the cover of this week's Time magazine cover asking accusingly "Who is the REAL DEAN?"
Or the current obsession with 'foreigners' identity that the government has (ie the fingerprinting, photographing, jailing and holding foreign nationals incommunicado without charge, etc) in this paranoid era, where everyone we don't know is immediately suspect.

Xenophobia drives a lot of the anti-guest crap here. But that doesn't make it right or rational.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM

Xenophobia, penophobia. The reason people don't like anonymous negative posts is because they are FAR more upsetting than similarly negative posts attributable to an identity. You keep trying to twist this into something it ain't and you just don't get the point. It has nothing to do with being private. It has everything to do with being rude. You are very fond and defensive of what is, in the final analysis, simply obsessive ill manners. Do grow up!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 04:50 PM

"The reason people don't like anonymous negative posts is because they are FAR more upsetting than similarly negative posts attributable to an identity."

PROVE IT. Come on, Amos. How about you give at least 5 examples of each that proves this belief you are stating as if it were incontrovertible, uncontestable fact.

There is PLENTY rude, threatening, hostile, disturbing member posting done around here. As to "obsessive ill manners" how about you talk to any number of members about their, instead of your CONSTANT haranguing of guests?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:07 PM

Dear Guest:

I am not haranguing guests -- I am responding to the topic. If a named participant acts out of bounds in my opinion, you can be sure I will tell him so, and often have. It happens often enough, but is less upsetting in my opinion than the nameless ones. No, I won't "prove it"! The proposition is silly. The obsessive ill manners of which I spoke is your adamant and obdurate insistence that being anonymous and critical is perfectly respectable. Well, it simply ain't so, pal.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:10 PM

now, you see, I have no idea whether 'Martin Gibson' is replying to me, or someone else..it resembles Martin Gibsons remarks, but could be one of several...so I don't know who I am replying to, and this complicates what I might choose to reply.

"Members do this quite often as well..."

no...members do NOT do it to the degree that anonymous "guests" do it! Members sometimes have flamed each other and disagreed and bickered, but the serious, nasty, hateful, hurtful remarks are usually from people who are not using a member ID. In a couple of cases, members who did cross the line found themselves NOT members, I believe. In a couple other cases, people 'hiding behind the curtain' were surprised when Toto pulled the curtain aside (IP adresses) and they were (privately) unmasked.

"It is no one's responsibility but your own to edit what you don't want to read online. Don't like it? Don't read it. Period."

...and how are you supposed to know it is unpleasant crap BEFORE you read it? We have had threads where someone was discussing the loss of a loved one, or their serious health or weight problem...and getting helpful advice...when some idiot drops a truly nasty remark into the thread and really hurts a good person.(there has been one ongoing example of this for years!)
Don't give me BS about "don't sweat small stuff" just because YOU don't take it personally or feel threatened or insulted...YOU are not 'everyone', and evidently YOU have no idea what it feels like to be hit with nastiness when you are vulnerable!

"Why would it make you feel safer or more at ease, knowing the name of the person who insults you?" It is not a matter of "safer" in most cases, but it would sure give me a better idea of whether I needed to respond, ignore or call the cops! If I know poster "X" is usually just a smart-alec loudmouth who flips off remarks he 'thinks' are funny or cute, I might shrug and ignore; but if I realize this person is not only serious, but knows me or lives near me and knows my friends and is trying to do damage to my reputation (yes, we just had some posts like that!) then I'd feel a bit different.

Human beings, as we know them today, have been around for about 35,000 years, 6000-7000 with a written language, but the ability to make remarks this widely, and with almost total anonymity is only 10-15 years old, and many of them have not figured out how to adjust to it yet.

(oh, and I beg to differ, Clinton, about your claim...."just about anyone with the intelligence of the average brain- damaged monkey can find your IP number, trace it to your internet provider and find out exactly where you live..." That requires at least a savvy Orangutan!

They might get your bank account, find your credit rating, and discover what brand of guitar strings you buy, IF they know who you are to begin with. (you and I make no secret about where we are-- 'Martin Gibson' chooses a nickname, and I'd find it a LOT of work to idenitfy him...so I wouldn't bother without good cause, and being outspoken is not 'good cause')
----If you do nothing to protect yourself, you can be traced by some means, by those with **access** to IP numbers, but you surely know that it is possible to post either here in Mudcat, or in USENET, or to send email, so that it would take an enormous effort to find you! Spammers and hackers do it everyday, and they are only identified when someone thinks it is serious enough to spend LOTS of time poring over ISP logs (IF you get a court order and have the computer time). Serious death threats and national security 'might' get the attention; hateful remarks to a folkie wont.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM

well, Amos said it much shorter while I was madly composing, but in my post there were a couple of examples of the kind of proof 'guest' was damanding..(no, NOT details, but real, nontheless) There HAVE been obscenities and threats posted here...not like calls to your house...but...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:55 PM

This thread is quite nasty at present,
with a "GUEST" who, as GUESTS go, just doesn't.
Doing it in rhyme doesn't take up much time,
and it somehow makes things much more pleasant.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:07 PM

Listen, Bill D. and I am replying to you.

First of all I am not stupid enough to threaten you or anyone else. I wouldn't waste my time, there is nothing to threaten anyone about.

I DON'T KNOW YOU AND I DON'T CARE!

I might think your opinions really suck or you maybe have no talent, but I would never threaten you.

Being outspoken is not a crime, as you said. As far as Amos goes, it seems like his standards have to be everyone elses. I reserve the right to criticize you, pally. If you can dish it out, you have got to also take it. So you are Amos on this forum. so what?

As I have said before, too many get blurred into what is reality and what isn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM

Listen, Bill D. and I am replying to you.
First of all I am not stupid enough to
threaten you or anyone else.
I wouldn't waste my time,
there is nothing to threaten anyone about.

I DON'T KNOW YOU AND I DON'T CARE!

I might think your opinions really suck
or you maybe have no talent, but
I would never threaten you.

Being outspoken is not a crime, as you said.
As far as Amos goes, it seems like his standards
have to be everyone elses.
I reserve the right to criticize you, pally.
If you can dish it out, you have got to also take it.
So you are Amos on this forum.
So what?

As I have said before,
too many get blurred into what is reality
and what isn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:23 PM

..umm...you care enough to yell at me..*wry grin*
I don't think I ever suggested you might threaten me, and it was not you I was worried about, you were just the current example of a non-member....and obviously, I still don't know who made the other post. You at least 'usually' sign your posts and can be replied to when it seems relevant.

I guess we have all made our points, such as they are, and are unlikely to win each other over. I'll retire from this one too, I guess.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:26 PM

blank verse, Kevin? wow, I wish I could do poetry...but somehow, it,uh...seems familar ;>)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:50 PM

I read in a comma where I shouln't have. So, to correct what I said, yes, I would want to know the name of someone who chooses to attack, for all of the reasons BillD has stated.

Oh, and Martin Gibson, I don't give a rat's ass, either...

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: akenaton
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 07:01 PM

Come Back Thomas......All is Forgiven...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 07:36 PM

Bill D --- I think you hit the proverbial nail, when you wrote "non- member", I thought this was about anon guests? You aren't really happy with any sort of guest are you?

Some of you object to non-members, some object to anon guests, some of you object to everyone who has a differing opinion to your own ; so it is difficult to know who your gripe is actually with. But more of you are in touch with reality, and have a sense of perspective on this.

When I post here, I really don't intend to mortally offend anyone by not putting my real name. But lately I have seen far more posts about guests, than by guests.They maybe were a problem for you in the past, but it doesn't appear to be so now? Not that I read absolutely everything here, but I have just not come across any of the scurrilous posts referred to above. And it appears they were members at the time anyway, or maybe I have misinterpreted that?

Some of the guest postings are pure quick wittedness, and really add fine humor to the forum. I think it would be far duller without them.

Perhaps we should hope that the trouble you once had from disgruntled members has disappeared, and embrace everyone.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 08:11 PM

Not blank verse, that's free verse, in the tradition of Archie. Except that, unlike Don Marquis' erudite cockroach, I could work the shift key; so it's got Upper Case as well.

Buit I think it comes across a lot better laid out that way.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Big Mick
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 08:11 PM

It simply comes down to this, GUEST, no matter how you try to change it. We have many fine Guest posts on this forum. It is not member/nonmember that causes me to react. It is when I see posts that are intended to be disruptive and mean spirited. I consider this to be the act of a bully, and I believe firmly that the only way to deal with bullies is to give them a dose of their own salt. If they are using anonymity to spread venom then I will expose them if I can find a way. If they are creating a false premise, then I will expose the premise. If they are using red herring tactics, then I will do my best to expose that.

It is not about agreeing with me. There are plenty of examples in my past posts that show disagreement with my positions. It is about attempting to disrupt to assuage the demons that reside in some people. The anonymity isn't the issue, because as Clinton points out everyone and no one is really anon on the net. It is when they are using anon as a shield for the destructive acts.

For what it is worth, Martin Gibson, I find many of your posts have great value here. But when you attempt to defend nameless GUEST who have an axe to grind, we part ways. And you do ID yourself, even if only with the nom de guerre you choose to post under.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: mousethief
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 09:06 PM

I note that no one here has even suggested that level of threat is being made against anyone here,

It has been made to me, by anonymous posters, on this very board, because I happened to say that I have friends who are Palestinian and I deplore some of the things the Israeli Defence Force does to the Palestinians.

If I knew their names, I would tell the police.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 09:22 PM

I figure ya gotta have the balls to stand up for what ya believe. Seems pretty simple to me. Posting under a name at least allows the people with whom ya disagree to message ya and clarify or get in touch to tell ya what an idiot ya are. I've had the good fortune to be an idiot on a few occasions--OK, maybe more than a few, and it has allowed me to meet three people with whom I correspond now and then. Don't get much better 'n that. I wrote to apologize for stupid stuff I'd said, and they were kind enough to accept the apologies. Now, we're friends. Anonymous GUESTS likely won't have that opportunity. That's sad. To me, the Mudcat is a site whereon people give their honest and considered views. They don't all agree with mine, but it would be a boring world if that were the case.

I notice, for example, that mousethief and I would likely disagree with regard to the Palestinian/Israeli conflict, each of us seeing the other as being wrong. However, I'm not about to get abusive about it. I don't doubt, over time, we'd reach the conclusion that the other is a bit wrong AND a bit right. That said, I think it is always appropriate to know who one's accuser is. It just seems fair, that's all.

Bruce Murdoch


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 11:46 PM

mousethief (Alex)does not post as often as he once did, due to changes in daily life, but he was/is a thoughtful, honest person with a wide variety of interests... whose opinions are his own, and who never hid from anyone. His world and life are quite different from mine, but I repect him and was appalled at some of the abuse he got for his views. I do NOT respect the coward(s) who threatened him, and incidents like that are part of why I enter these debates occasionally.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 12:34 AM

Well said, brucie and BillD!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 01:25 AM

Absolutely agree with that, Bill. I thought the comments were reprehensible. Alex has been a great 'Catter, and his not being around as much has diminished the place.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 02:40 AM

And thankfully those who remain in the fold
Even when the wind blows, to equate with the bold
As people are needed, all open and daring
To be unimpeded, with sharing and caring

The problem for me is anonymous grating
With no need to agree, with a posture berating
And scarcely a mention of rather good wishes
For the betterment of our good sleep so delicious

And who am I really to say what is right?
As my questions are silly, and let people fight
But I do seek resolve, in what ways that we can
For we all revolve, and evolve as a plan

And always it's effort, to mean what we say
As nameless aggressors, send benders our way
These actors premeditate, hurtful entedre
With no thought to mediate, but stab and then wander

So, without here a kinship, these authors astray
Will find here no friendship, but demons to slay
And to win lonely battles, with only one fighting
Are but cowardly prattles, ...it's these that I'm slighting.
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 06:34 AM

Tried this before but only made things worse
Never before have I tried it in verse
Might be a foolish hope I know
Perhaps our forum can be allowed to grow?

Will we never learn from the pain?
Making the same mistakes again and again?
We know the answer is toleration
And abuse is abuse, whatever the justification

The abusive post is of course taboo
Except when it comes from the chosen few
A place where the double standard rules
Where wise men are being made of fools

Praise the vision of our creator
Not the bully, clone nor moderator
He created this garden and cannot today
Understand why we just can't go out and play

The dream was a forum for sisters and brothers
Not a freedom for one, being denied to others
Open to all – that was the plan
Not just a few - a clique or a clan

But that still is the plan – guests ARE invited!
If we set the example – we can all be united
I think this welcome is often hollow
The example being set - not one to follow

It is not who is saying it but what is being said
All this is lost – when you close down a thread
Respect every post – as if it were your friend
One you would always be prepared to defend.

Post what you like – ignore what you don't
If you don't abuse- perhaps others won't
Encourage the positive – just ignore what is not
Share out the ration – don't piss in the pot.

Agree, disagree or make no reaction
Just never ask for editing action
Save these requests for your own posts
Don't waste time hunting witches and ghosts.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:08 AM

Please do not overlook the Northern Ireland factor, anyone from NI who leaves their name on any Site is taking a chance.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Oaklet
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:23 AM

Good point, GUEST. In a similar vein, I'd like to offer "never buy underwear for oneself at a car boot sale".


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:34 AM

Guest Ella nailed it.

Anyone else getting dizzy reading all the 'bash the guest' arguments from the Sanctified Membership (Mudcat tm)?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Art Thieme
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:35 AM

...and never buy "Fresh Fish" from a car with Oklahoma plates !!

Alas,

I think that I will never see,
A poem as bad as Kilmer's Trees.
So here I leave the rhyme scheme of that horrid verse
With hopes that never ere
Shall I be known to write,
A poem that's any worse.---Art Thieme

"Difference of Opinions. That's what makes horse races."---Pete Seeger

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:47 AM

I've posted many times as a guest, offering knowledge, help, expertise, and occasionally political opinion. Quite frankly, the reason I DON'T register as a member is the sanctimonious attitudes of some of the members, which has been proven once again by this thread. Boring, nasty, and hateful. Shame on you.

Another good thread that exposes the true nature of MEMBERS' passive-aggressiveness was the "Seeking Traveling Companion" thread a few weeks ago. I was ready to join Mudcat, then that thread began and the somehow superior "members" of the forum accused the poor poster of everything from bestiality to being a serial killer.

After seeing the shabby reception some members give to GUESTS, I really don't want everyone to know who I am. I still, however, have plenty of valuable stuff for members and guests of this forum. I tend not to insult people unless they are blatantly racist or sexist. I am, however, continually frustrated by posters--members and guests--who treat this forum like it was the most important thing in the world to the degree that some threads degenerate into outright hostility.

As for the threats to mousethief, even anonymous posts can be traced by the appropriate law enforcement agencies, at least to the computer from which they were sent.

Honestly, I've seen more insults from registered members who are threatened that outsiders might be encroaching on "their thing" than I have from most guests, who just want their questions answered or just want to offer info. This is, after all, supposed to be a knowledge base and an informational FORUM, not just a good-old-boys and -girls club.

Finally, many of you know me. We've met at festivals and gigs. If any members really need to know who I am, spend some of the ample time that you clearly have and follow the breadcrumbs from my posts.   I suspect you'll be disappointed, because the main reason I have chosen to remain anonymous is simply to step away from the role of being the person everybody knows at certain festivals and gigs.

If it is absolutely critical to know my name before you take my musical advice, I will email you privately.

I truly hope this is the last thread on this hostile, divisive topic.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM

I find it a puzzle when a GUEST with no name
defends the fine freedom to bash and defame;
and then turns around in a flash, to protest
that it's mean and offensive to challenge a GUEST.

But the truth of the matter is, there's no real quarrel;
it's our GUEST once again "shooting fish in a barrel".


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Bill Buethe
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 05:27 PM

You know McGrath, et al. In your efforts to get your Mudcat friends to notice what clever rhymers you are, you are actually missing a lot of opportunities to actually communicate with some polite guests, who are trying to communicate with the members. I think they would like the members to understand they are feeling frustrated, alienated, and picked upon.

I can't fathom the reason why some of you keep taunting contributors like Guest, Ella and Guest, Satchel (who seem to be making a genuine effort to reach out to members) by ignorning their posts, then adding new rhymes/posts that are demeaning to them?

That sort of behavior of members is a large part of the problem for guest posters. A very vocal minority of the membership acts as if anyone posting as a guest, whether with or without a name, are a single, monolithic entity, rather than what we are: guests.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM

And in this corner, wearing the black trunks....

C'mon guys... move on. What else is there to say?

I'm with you, pdq (and my friend Bill D, too,) but nuffs enuff.

Now, I want you to shake hands and come out singing..

Some of my best friends are people.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 06:09 PM

In my posts I've said the same things in verse that I'd say in prose. That was how the thread started, evidently in the hope that doing it this way would make it a bit better natured. I can't see how it's any harder to read verse than prose; if anything the reverse. And it can take the edge off a controversy, and perhaps lend some additional interest to making, and perhaps reading, arguments that have already been re-treaded several times.

Once again, not in verse this time, if you insist, Bill:

If anybody has ever expressed hostility to GUESTS as such, I haven't seen it.

The criticism is of people who insist on posting just as GUEST, for reasons which have often been explained, and in particular of people who use the threads to insult others. It makes no difference whether these are non-members, or members choosing temporarily to ditch their cookies, so as to be able to post in a way that ensures that any response has to be in the thread rather than in a Personal Message.

I've seen many times where people have made this point and I've made it myself in this thread. But both GUEST Ella and GUEST Satchel, and yourself, Bill, continue to talk as if this kind of hostility towards people who aren't members was the issue.

There just isn't any such hostility. But that doesn't stop people pretending there is. I hope that's just a misunderstanding, rather than an attempt to muddy the water.

"Come out singing"... yes that's another way of doing it.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 06:12 PM

As I have said before, a structural change at Mudcat would eliminate this fight. It is pointless to argue about whom is ruder to whom. The artificial difference created by the ability to post as guest or member with name or guest with any name creates the problem which is manifested in posts. Solve that problem and you solve the "rudeness" problem.

"Personality" problems in organizations can always be solved with a structural change. Max wants it this way and hopes for us all to change our behavior but that is much less predictable than the result of a structural change on human internet behavior. So we fight.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 06:16 PM

Hey, Satchel: I'm glad that you stop by here. You, and several other guests who contribute positively to Mudcat. And, not all nasty comments come from Guests. Saying that Guests are flamers is as dumb as saying that Members are condescending and unfriendly. Or that all black people eat watermelon. Generalities inflame and divide. And in the process, the baby gets thrown out with the bath water.

And people think the conversations between Palestine and Israel get heated? They got nothin' on Mudcat at times. I'm as sorry for those Mudcatters who tar and feather all guests (although they will insist, when called, that there are good guests, too,) as I am for those Guests who seem to get their jollies out of inflaming members. It's a real shame. Threads like this just fan the flames. It's a chance to be clever, or get nasty, for some folks on each side. But, there are people on both sides who are sincere and over a glass of bear (at John9's) might find each other to be wonderful company.

I welcome anyone who can disagree in a civil way. Members or Guests.

The good thing about members is that you can communicate with them by PM. I don't know you, Satchel, or many other Guests who come in good will. But, my e-mail address is posted... it's geraldrasmussen@SBCglobal.net.

I wrote another post that didn't come up on my computer. If I've ended up repeating myself, maybe it's worth saying twice...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 06:48 PM

Mudcat's finest hour is yet to come...when William Shatner joins as an official member and replaces Spaw as Mudcat's reigning Elder Weirdo.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:07 PM

one more time (in response to Ella)...I am not against in principle people remaining 'non members'. Being registered has certain advantages, for both the member and for others, as it makes 'private' communications possible when needed, but it is NOT a big issue. The issue is, and has always been, those who use anonymity to hide while behaving rudely. (read again my post of 5 Jan. 1:01PM)
I am a bit weary of the generalization that objection to nasty anonymity implies objection to *all* those who choose not to join. It is polite to use a consistant name when posting, even when one's remarks are not polite or friendly, and lack of this courtesy will indeed get remarks made about it.


to satchel-
I'm very sorry you were put off by some postings, and I have indeed read some of yours--which were, as you say, interesting & helpful--but being a member or not will not change their post or yours. You do cut yourself off from some advantages in remaining un-registered, but as far as *I* am concerned you are welcome here anyway! ANYONE who simply joins in the daily routine here in a decent way, as you have done, is welcome...(and 'most' others agree with me.. I am trying to think of exactly who does not...)

Being a 'member' does not make you less anonymous, if you don't publish details about yourself, though, and I must disagree with your claim that...."even anonymous posts can be traced by the appropriate law enforcement agencies, at least to the computer from which they were sent."
As I said in response to Clinton a ways back, that is only true IF the poster is careless. It is quite possible to post in ways that make it extremely difficult to identify you, even to determined law enforcement agencies. Perhaps the one who threatened mousethief took enough precautions that cursory investigations were inadequate. I won't post HOW that can be done, although is is not a big secret. (No need encouraging that behaviour to those who don't need to know, and only want to harass.)

"Membership" here allows you to do wonderful things like getting a list of all the posts made since you last visited, 'tracing' interesting threads so you don't have to look them up again days or months later, exchange ideas and comments privately with other members (well, some consider that a wonderful thing..*wry smile*). Being a member lets you visit a 'live' chat room, if that interests you. (I found it invaluble when planning our Folk Society's Getaway last October, as ideas could be exchanged minute by minute.) Being a member allows you to keep a list of bookmarks to other folk related sites, and to search ones collected by others.
I'm sure I've forgotten something, but that's the story. Being a member does NOT put you in some 'elite', as there are thousands of them. It does not 'identify' you, except by general IP#, and THAT is not available to general membership!

Still, if one wishes to use non-membership as some sort of protest against perceived problems, I can only shrug and repeat...*I* will not fret about it unless you use anonymity to create strife and ill will.

If, for some reason, you are curious about who this nut is who keeps pounding away at this issue, here is the bare beginnings of a website my wife and I are trying to start (HTML doesn't come easy to everyone) and here I/we am, in all my/our glory.... I do all this typing because I TRULY want this amazing site to be the happiest, most interesting place possible, and just 'maybe' I can ease some minds....(yes, and maybe I have bored you to tears *weak grin*...but even after 7+ years, I think it's all worth the effort.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:09 PM

McGrath, it was actually Bill who referred to "non member", which I just pointed out is not the same as anon guest?

And the majority of argumentative posting at present IS from a named member.

They were my observations.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:12 PM

boy. a lot can happen when you compose those long posts!! I GOTTA learn to keep 'em shorter or type faster!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM

Nothing wrong with being argumentative. Being insulting or getting angry and so forth are one thing, but arguing out a difference with friends is as natural as breathing. Some people seem to assume that arguments have to turn into quarrels, and should therefore be avoided but that's needlessly pessimistic.

True enough, Ellie, Bill did refer, in a non-hostile way, to Martin Gibson as a "non-member" - but then he had specifically said that he was a non-member, rather than a member coming in as a GUEST. Using the term was merely an indication that he accepted that as being the truth, and was therefore a friendly thing to say.

But quite right, it's not about members and non-members - I suspect that a lot of the more troublesome GUESTS are in fact members.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:22 PM

McGrath,    Thanks, I think!

I agree with your first and third paragraph. The jury is still out on the middle one, but hell, two out of three ain't bad.

Consider yourself kissed.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:29 PM

Wait a minute: I wanna consider myself kissed, too! How come HE gets kissed? I gotta take a pout.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:32 PM

If she'll kiss McGrath ,she'll kiss anybody Brucie...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:49 PM

Just checked the Mudcat Rogues Gallery, and no sign of akenaton, or Brucie.

Sulking in hiding, I see!

And that's another of the benefits of Mudcat membership that Bill didn't mention, you are able to put your phizzog in the Mudcat Photo section; though you don't have to be a member to see the photos. (If you do that ella, you might reconsider that kiss...)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:56 PM

And that last GUEST was me, with a crumbled cookie. I'd logged out to check I was right about being able to visit the photos without being a member, and forgot to log back on before posting. That's how easy it is to step into the shadows...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:02 PM

ooh, that's how it starts. . . you sure you didn't send just one little spitball into some other thread now?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:05 PM

See McGrath, I'll make a guest of you yet. ;^)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:19 PM

" I TRULY want this amazing site to be the happiest, most interesting place possible "

It IS Bill.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 09:44 PM

akenaton: Then there is yet hope. However, I wait in vain for the slightest glimmer of recognition from yon fair damsel. Forsooth, McG of H will be kiss-ed, and I shall only stand and wait. There is the odd unfairness in life. Ah, me, oh my. Alas. However, I will sulketh not, but rather, in humble, understated bravery simply fade from the screen. (Picture fading here, and when you can't picture it any longer, I am gone.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM

BillDee...Rita's Dragon Rocks!! I've always loved your stuff, too, of course. What a nice Christmas present....I'm anxious to see more of your website!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 10:15 PM

Bill,

Tell Ferrara she done good. I love that picture of the two of you!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 12:21 AM

awwww...*big grin*...That picture was shot from the hip by Alaska Mike at a party right after the Getaway, and has become one of our favorites ever... (You threatened to come to the Getaway one year, Amos..Joe Offer can show you how to get there...you just go past this lighthouse and turn right.

(and yeah...that is Rita's own dragon design! She does about one of those a year..) Rita is learning HTML, I am learning how to steal web page designs and substitute MY images. We'll see whose technique works faster!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 09:50 AM

Thanks Bill B, Bill D, and Jerry. I can feel the warm fuzzies coming back already.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 01:35 PM

Bruceth, fear not. You too have been smackeroonied of the first order.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 02:02 PM

THANK you, a million times. My libido has been restored to its normal location in my psyche. You are indeed a fair damsel to be so kind to a frail, elderly, kindly old man--read letch--and once again I can go forth and face the day. (Hey, guys, eat your hearts out!)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 02:18 PM

So writing these lines unsigned is synonymous
With sending hate mail and remaining anonymous
Our names remain secret and won't be eponymous
Our location unknown so you can't drop a bomb on us


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 02:42 PM

"bomb on us"?? LOL...that rhythme wins you a spot in 'guest' hall of fame!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 03:14 PM

But of course Paranoid Android didn't write them unsigned. Which means I can join with Bill in saying that's a great rhyme, without having to say "GUEST, 08 Jan 04 - 02:18 PM" in order to identify which GUEST I am talking about.

"Paranoid Android" is no less anonymous,
but adding that handle makes it all much more courteous,
Such minimal identification's been found
a source of far less irritation all round.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Paranoid Android
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 03:46 PM

When I wrote my lines it was 7.18
Theres a five hour difference and an ocean between
I live in Ireland while you're in the States
But Mudcat enables us all to be mates

So if when I'm posting I don't know the rules
Please don't call me cowardly or brand me a fool
Don't get hot and bothered with trolls and their flames
When they know they've annoyed you then they've won the game


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,A GUEST!! Maeve Slattery
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 04:22 PM

Dear Thomas the Rhymer,

I can't see what your problem is. From my experience of reading all kinds of posts by GUESTS for a very long time, (and have only posted a couple of offerings myself), I honestly have to say there are many valuable and informative people (GUESTS) contributing to MUDCAT.

Indeed MUDCAT is all the richer for it. If you wish, I will give you but a few examples relating to subjects in which I along with many MEMBERS have had an interest.

Is it possible that somewhere along the way a GUEST put you in your place or knew what they were talking about. Has the ego been harmed?

Regards from a GUEST Maeve Slattery


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 05:01 PM

Big Mick

Thanks for the encouragement on my posts.

I know you disagree with me on the anonymous Guest postings, but I find many of them kind of funny and interesting. I know they are most always from regulars who want to go incognito at their convenience.

It will always happen.

Phonies are phonies.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:18 PM

Ego? ...what ego? Look again Mauve!...and be a little more objective this time... ;^)

Be well! ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,A GUEST!! Maeve Slattery
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 09:38 AM

Thank you Thomas the Rhymer, you've just proved my point.

OH! Nearly forgot, I have no right to post such a post. Forgive me.

Regards, Maeve Slattery


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 09:52 AM

Oh yes you have, Maeve, as you know very well...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:17 PM

The pleasure is all mine, Mauve... Glad I could be of assistance... signing off from cloud9 ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 12:25 AM

Yes, I did post that last message... Ironic, Isn't it? I accidently unplugged my computer, my cookie emerged into the afternoon... and I became unknown... No titillation did I feel, nor was I tempted to blindside some unsuspecting soul... and I was not making a point. I did not even know it had happened. Oops. Sorry for the confusion... ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peace
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 12:40 AM

Are we there yet?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:49 AM

Looks like it!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 10:30 AM

;^)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 04:27 PM

when I first posted here a coupla years back, a "member" said something that I took the wrong way, so I blasted him back. Then I had to apologize, because I was in the wrong. So I did, publicly on the board. The guy accepted it. Miscommunication, all taken care of, not a problem. THEN this guy I never heard of named TTR came galloping in on his steed to defend the honor of his vassal, and shit all over me. I thought that was strange, rather. Maybe Mudcat could use a few less gallant knights tilting. Or maybe not. Whatever.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 04:38 PM

That post by heric came across as another case of a knight galloping into action.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 05:17 PM

and now we are three!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 05:25 PM

Horsemen of the Apocalypse...


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Cookies are the spawn of the devil
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM

There are many folk discussion boards on the web.

Some force you to enter a name
Some force you to register
This one permits anonymous guests

If you have a problem with being on a board that permits anonymous guests then shut the fuck up and exercise your free market choice to go to one that doesn't.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Jeri
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM

Poll:
Which has more chance of happening?
1) Getting people to stick a handle on their posts then they don't have to and don't want to.
2) Getting people to shut the fuck up when they don't want to and don't have to.
3) Getting everybody to accept that the people they're arguing with aren't the spawn of Satan.
4) Having some guy in Nigeria give you eleventy-billion dollars.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:00 PM

Jeri, as a fellow elite and dispenser of justice in the name of all that is good and right, shouldn't we consider that this has run it's course?

Mick
Olympus on high


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:25 PM

That is exactly right. When I enter a thread I expect it to die an immediate but honorable death. In the name of all that is Mudcat.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Big Mick
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:49 PM

C'mon, heric. How many ways do we cut the same turkey? I mean, between this one and the other one, we have beat this to death. It's not like everyone hasn't had their say. Know whut I mean, Vern?

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 07:06 PM

I have nothing to say. I was serious. I'm serious now. (Nobody ever takes me seriously.) End it. End it now.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 07:12 PM

You can beat a dead horse, but you can't make it drink...so,... why not lets us leave off o this one for a few months... OK? Every one made their point, and frankly, just because our heads are pointed, it doesn't mean we're sharp... ;^)

Bye Bye!... ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 08:30 PM

This thread oughtn't to end so prosaically:

Ballade of a nameless GUEST

This thread began with verse that rhymed,
but drifted into angry prose;
it seems a shame that just one time
we couldn't joust as friendly foes
and use our knack for words to weave
a web of various points of view
that aren't as different as we believe.
All friendly GUESTS, we welcome you.

Breached etiquette is not a crime,
that's true enough; and heaven knows
that in a scale of one to nine,
a nameless post ranks pretty low
when set against the ceaseless heave
of troubled times; that too is true.
So do not let these squabbles grieve.
All friendly GUESTS, we welcome you.

A rose by any name's as fine,
as Juliet told her Romeo,
but namelessness seems like a sign
that says more than it seems to show.
Perhaps we sometimes are deceived
and nameless GUESTS are friend not foe.
Best wear our heart upon our sleeve.
All friendly GUESTS, we welcome you.

GUEST with no name, I think that we've
Been arguing too long with you;
Nameless or not, no need to leave.
All friendly GUESTS, we welcome you.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:24 PM

Bravo, Bravos!... McGrath, you climb
'rond crabby prose, and smiling... rhyme
Including those in kind sublime
Who's friendly pose comes ev'ry time...

Wishers well are always welcome
'less you tell us truths but seldom
Sing out well as some may feel them
Naught if jealous jests conceal 'em

So GUESTS are good, when GUESTS relate
As civil should the known be great
But knock on wood, don't take the bait
A stranger could be your next date!
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 10:33 AM

Why should this thread ever be closed?
They die a natural death - I always had supposed
Why want to stop others – after you've had your rage?
YOU just stop posting – then it falls off the page

For this thread has committed no crime
It contains both good and bad - but original rhyme
Some may wish to rhyme some more
Is this not what our forum is for?

That was the originator's intention
Ignored by later intervention
Should these wishes be respected?
Or threads be closed after being inspected?

Some people have had their say
Why the need to hide it away?
Some think that we may indeed need it
To give some the chance to actually read it


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 11:13 AM

Oh, Shambles, these brambles do scrape me with guilt
My thread control scrambles were with compromise filt
For it seemed to my mind that dissention had conquered
And most hate the rhymed resentions of bonkers...
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 11:26 AM

And most hate the rhymed resentions of bonkers

Dear Thomas, breathe deeply, and take ye some time;
For poems are much more than just words forced to rhyme!
And making up new ones, to make the rhymes flow
Doesn't make one a poet -- it makes one a schmoe!
Take the time that you need to go back and redo them
If your muses are tired, time off will renew them!
And then stick to real words to give your rhymes weight
To prevent them from crumbling, or some such sad fate;
Make poetry sing, as a lark or a linnet,
And honor thy tongue for the magic that's in it!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Peg
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 03:08 PM

here's some haikus I wrote about Mitt Romney today..

They say he's upright
and oh so respectable
but he just scares me.


He doesn't smoke, right?
or do drugs, booze or coffee
where's the fun in that?


He's tall, slim, robust,
his wife a rosy damsel--
so many children!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 09:15 PM

No patience have I for your patronization
I'll rhyme to the sky, and I'll fly fascination
Critiques are dull, Amos, learn tolleration
My content is full, naught prevarication

As to making up words, well, great Shakespeare did often
It's fun, undeterred, and the meanings don't soften
But those who will judge of some art categoric
So seldom will budge into phantasmagoric

Please don't be offended, your surfing's intact
Still free as you are, heres naught to react
Is this so repulsive, and vulgar to you
My artless impulsive, I so love to do?

Your inspections, rejections, are so unlike new
Methinks they're projections, more power to you
So be well there Amos, find satisfaction
These sad sorry rhymos will heed no retraction...
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 09:39 PM

I never will learn how to talk to yonkers
I always stir up old resentions of bonkers...
And leave them snarling, while they leave me screaming
Frustrated by the trial of grasping meaning
But each of us is full aware, alive
And struggling daily merely to survive
So let it be; thy words I cannot quote
But what the hell, whatever floats your boat.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Ebbie
Date: 13 Jan 04 - 09:48 PM

LOL. "I always stir up old resentions of bonkers..." Obviously you have intuited what it means, Amos!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 06:38 PM

Jeri, as a fellow elite and dispenser of justice in the name of all that is good and right, shouldn't we consider that this has run it's course?

Mick
Olympus on high


I find the situation a little unclear
Can someone explain what is happening here?
Despite the humour – what is the proposal?
That this thread is fit for premature disposal?

It is really up to the conspiring two?
To decide these things for me and you?
They both appear to share in this presumption
But is this a fact or just an assumption?

This thread is BS – it is clear to see
It makes no claim for musicality
Is it worse than others going the rounds?
If thought so – just what are the grounds?

Threads about farts and armpit hair
Appear to be safe from this judgmental pair
Two thousand posts – about nothing at all
Also appear to escape this call

Many BS threads may be confusing
But freedom to choose is what we are losing
Is more than one of the same – really treason?
Perhaps this is not the real and only reason?

The answer before has been defined
Perhaps threads on 'guests' can also be combined
Maybe duplication is not the concern
More in the line of 'books to burn?

Its title could be thought a little snide
But you can't judge a book from what's outside
Is pressure to end it – a little distasteful?
Of the original verse – a little bit wasteful?

Just what are the rules and who is it makes them?
Or do these two decide – just as it takes them?
Good honest folk – and I don't doubt it
Perhaps they can pause - and just think about it?

For can this attitude be defended?
Don't open the thread and you can't be offended
Shouldn't this be what's advised?
If you post to the thread - it's only revived.

Is this intervention a little hypocritical?
For if I were being analytical
The only rude word I see used this time
Was a F*** from the Gods – and it didn't even rhyme!

Perhaps F*** is what is known as BLANK verse?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,yellow belly
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 07:54 PM

It can only be closed when THEY say so.........quite right Shambles, why do they keep opening it?
Personally I find their feet stamping amusing and think it should stay open for that reason alone.
Like someone said above, if they don't like the "rules" of this forum, go elsewhere.We're very happy, no complaints here.
Ok this thread does not have the merit of armpits, but hey, we can't all be perfect.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 07:58 PM

Which THEY is that?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 08:12 PM

Hey - I just won eleventy-billion dollars from some dude in Nigeria!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Jeri
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 08:37 PM

LOL, wealthy GUEST! My suspicions were right. Next, if the weather here's any indication, Hell's gonna start drafting a hockey team.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,yellow belly
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 08:40 PM

Sorry McG...should have elaborated maybe. My "they" are the member calling for this thread to be closed, and the appalling poet,not for his appalling poetry, although that maybe does warrant immediate closure on humanitarian grounds.

I have also won eleventy-billion, you don't think it could be a scam?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:08 PM

Guests are ok, and welcome as a "member,"
Nigerian scams can also be fun.
There are much worse things-if you remember...
The thread about piercings-pardon as I run.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Little Hawk
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 10:17 PM

I scorn pitiful offerings on the scale of evelenty-billion, and will not reply any more to Nigerians who offer less than One Trillion dollars (after taxes).

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 07:17 AM

Members, "Net Names" or "Guests" that reply
Just wish to play their part.
So laugh, learn and debate if you can
And please don`t take it to heart.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST, heric
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 12:20 PM

The opinions expressed at the below website are not those of this anonymous poster (but here's some funny stuff for people with time on their hands.)
http://www.ebolamonkeyman.com/


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM

if the poetry war is to continue, I would LOVE to see something other than warped anapests. Take a look here, you aspiring poets, and try a different meter for a welcome change.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 06:33 PM

Right flippin ON, Bill! I cant' stand pests of any kind. Specially Anapests from Budapest. They should be deported from Canada, eh?

But lemme get somethin' straight here. I am a GUEST but I ain't no coward. If Thomas the Flippin' Rhymer thinks I am one I will give him a nukkle sandwich! Got that, Thomas???

- BDiBR


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 07:43 PM

The ballade is one of the more complex metrical forms, I would point out, Bill D...

Now someone write a sonnet.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 09:29 PM

That not every guest is cowardly, 'tis true
So many are kind and intelligent souls
And sad it is that an occasional one or two
T'would show us Medusa in defence of no goals
And if you're a poster that's ta'en a few
I'm sure then you know of these testier toles
For integrity's effort is all this 'to do'
If your character is real, there's no changing roles
Imaginations can inflate us to loftier sites
But arbitrary GUESTS contrary our rights...
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 10:30 PM

Dear friends, the thread surpasses ancient Babel
And in reflection shames those authors here
Who will not rise above--though fully able
But harken, rather, to the colder chains of fear.

In clarity, compassion, we must slowly father
The times and spaces we prefer to own
And steel ourselves thus to accomplish, rather
Than childlike in a fearful folly drown.

Stand for the best that can envisioned be!
And dialogue propose that hearts can touch
Silent stand not, nor only evil see,
Nor heark to those who whimper overmuch

Our laws and natures all will well agree:
Which we truly offer, that we shall see.


Hiram Willingford Nobel
Sonnets for the Cause of Humanity
Medford, Oregon, 1911


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Blind DRunk in Blind River
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 11:25 PM

Okay, I like, Think that I can write a better poem than Thomas the Rymer adn I am hgoing to do it now.

Hem!

I think that I shall never hear
A song as lovely as a beer
That snaps and crackles when its' opened
Like Krispy Krunch when I am tokin'
I love the way that awesome beer
Goes down my thraot and gives good cheer
And if I were made out of metal
I'd brew that beer up in my kettle
And toot the bubbles out my nose
And drink it right down to my toes
Cos beer is beer and this I knows
I'd rather drink than get me froze
In a big snowbank without no clothes
And after all I still suppose
A beer's a beer..
And a rose is a rose...
By any other name I hear
A beer would still be...still..
A beer.

Totally decent. Eat yer heart out TTR!

Drink up!

- BDiBR


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 11:31 PM

Allright, BDiBR, but it is not a sonnet. The ancient rhyme I posted above ytours is a sonnet, 14 lines in for ababcdcdefef gg. At least I think that's the definition of a sonnet.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 05:21 AM

"bomb on us"?? LOL...that rhythme wins you a spot in 'guest' hall of fame!

if the poetry war is to continue, I would LOVE to see something other than warped anapests. Take a look here, you aspiring poets, and try a different meter for a welcome change.

Why open the thread that causes you pain?
Why post to the thread just to complain?
If you just tell others what they should do
Why then should anyone wish to please you?

Talk of a war - is yours and is hollow
Does this set an example that others should follow?
Put up or shut up - or show us the way
Create or be positive or just go away


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,forever undulating
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 07:22 AM

I saw the many minds that speake
With such a flow and ebb
Upon the little patch of thread
That catters call the web

it's like a mirror, bright and clear
reflecting every face
And every wand'ring mind that speaks
upon this open space

for as we mingle in this flood
of faces, friends and foe
we do reveal our own true hearts
our inner secrets glow.

while to ourselves we may be blind
as our catharsis bleeds
our psychic entrails flood the page
within our words are seeds

seeds of life and seeds of hope
of bitterness and grief
as in our public purging
we ensure our own relief.

would that i could see into my own soul
as i can see in yours
for then my own world would be whole
effect would know its cause..

f.u.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 07:49 AM

I once `ad that Wordsworth in my cab,
I drove `im up to Brixto `ill.
I asked `im what `e wanted there,
`E said " To see a dafferdil".
I says there aint one to be found.
A dandelion p`raps or two.
`E sighs and says to me in tears.
"I s`pose that two`ll `ave to do"

Copyright 2004 johnh.hills@virgin.net
(Apologies to Hugh Jampton)


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 07:51 AM

Various forms of sonnet - the one Amos cited (14 lines, ababcdcdefef gg) is the Shakespearian version. Also available in the original Petrarchian variety, the Spenserian and the Miltonic, all of which also have fourteen lines. There's also the Curtal-Sonnet invented by Gerard Manley Hopkins, which has ten and a half lines. And the metre in English normally is iambic pentametre.

I didn't know all that off the top of my head - I checked it in a handy book called "A reader's guide to Literary Terms". And while doing so reminded of the enormous variety of poetical forms we don't bother to use.

As Amos said up above, rhyme is not the beginning and end of verse. In fact it's completely dispensable. Getting the metre/rhythm right (even in free verse - in fact especially in free verse) is far more important - as with music, where getting the rhythm wrong is far more damaging than getting the notes wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Amos
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 08:49 AM

JK,

That was odd, but loverly!

A


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 10:28 AM

The bottle may be shattered
But it's the message that matters
So if it washes on your shore
Don't join the roars
Of clashing egos and crashing bores

Roger Gall 1997

As the point of both song and poetry is communication - does not the detail and form of how the idea is written, presented or performed matter far less than that the idea is conveyed? After the original idea is conveyed, many knowledgable critics may subsequently be able to identify the meter that a poet has used or the tune used by a songwriter and to suggests ways that it could be improved.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 10:56 AM

T'was I "Thomas the poet", forsooks in deed I would
Fathom whats below it, there, the shelf where knick knacks stood
For in those books of metered rhyme, are many forms and 'ameters
And when I'm done with pickled time, I choose my own perameters

But this is my organic toast to open and invention
For twisted is the braggarts boast, exclusive intervention
If you are so offended by a certain form or meter
Your thoughts are not desended from beyond the gates of Peter

A rhyme can be a rhythm's crown, though you'd distain to know it
But cynics dominate the town, and aren't afraid to show it
Nibble a carrot with a frown, illusions did not grow it
Process does not know reknown, critique can't make a poet


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 08:01 PM

With appreciation and in the hope that imitation will be considered as the sincerest form of flattery.

'Ad that William Blake, on my bus
'Ad a 'bow of burning gold'
I said " you can't bring that on 'ere
Didn't do what 'e was told
Produced these 'arrows of desire'
The passengers got quite fruity
Chucked 'im off before his sword woke up
Well, I 'ad to do 'me duty

Bugger me! I looked behind
Missiles 'shootin' past 'me ears
'E was riding this 'chariot of fire'
And 'chuckin all these spears
'E told the clouds - to unfold
'Then 'e overtook – the sod
I told 'im to get off and walk
'Im and the 'Lamb of God'!

I looked as 'e speed away
Over 'those 'clouded hills'
Me countenance - less than divine
I 'ad one of me pills
Thought about his building plans
Though I admire a man with vision
'E 'ad better not go building 'ere
Not without planning permission

Well Jerusalem has trouble enough
Don't think 'e will improve it
England's pastures green or not
Not the best idea to move it
Move 'the wailing wall' to Surrey?
Is 'e the one to try?
For 'e's the bloke that tries to rhyme
'Symmetry' with 'eye'

*Smiles*


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 16 Jan 04 - 10:07 PM

Nice peice o wark! Truly up to date... A+
ttr


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Cluin
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 01:42 AM

All sing in chorus:

On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings,
On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings,
On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings,
On the cowardly nature of GUEST...
Post...
Ings!...

We simply must...
Say...



I'm sorry. We're out of time.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 04:46 AM

I did come up with another contribution for here but as it was bit musical and on-topic too - it can be seen by clicking on the following thread.

What is folk? IN SONG


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM

Oi, Would you Adam & Eve it. That Shambles is only nicking my customers. I`ve got two wives, a baby and Stout and Bitter to support. Struth!!


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 17 Jan 04 - 09:20 AM

All of us knows our place
No need to make a fuss
Wordsworth can afford a taxi
Billy Blake would take the bus

LOL


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: The Shambles
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 04:17 AM

If we see ourselves - as others see us
Maybe the truth will finally free us?

BBC Radio 2 Folk message board


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: freda underhill
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 07:53 AM

if effect then knows its cause
then we'll solve the planet's wars
for each side will take some blame
and then move on - to a different game.


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: GUEST,back to the top
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 09:52 PM

it worked


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Jan 04 - 10:02 PM

heloo, how do you write things in a different name?


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Subject: RE: BS: On the cowardly nature of GUEST postings
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 04:25 AM

Dear all...

I'm a bit perplexed and a little bit annoyed... But, the above postings by Guest ella, were not from me - I've just discovered this by looking for a thread I contributed to a while ago and didn't see for ages and spotted this ella.

I don't get much time nowadays to post, so have been popping in a catching up on the threads when I can.

With regards all

Ella


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