Lyrics & Knowledge Personal Pages Record Shop Auction Links Radio & Media Kids Membership Help
The Mudcat Cafemuddy

Post to this Thread - Sort Descending - Printer Friendly - Home


Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?

Golly 06 Jan 04 - 08:27 AM
Joybell 06 Jan 04 - 05:16 PM
Joybell 06 Jan 04 - 05:43 PM
Bob Bolton 06 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM
Bob Bolton 06 Jan 04 - 09:36 PM
IanC 07 Jan 04 - 07:40 AM
Bob Bolton 07 Jan 04 - 08:39 AM
GUEST,golly 14 Jan 04 - 08:07 AM
Joybell 14 Jan 04 - 07:11 PM
Bob Bolton 14 Jan 04 - 09:27 PM
Bob Bolton 14 Jan 04 - 09:45 PM
freda underhill 14 Jan 04 - 11:04 PM
freda underhill 14 Jan 04 - 11:23 PM
Joybell 15 Jan 04 - 07:14 AM
freda underhill 15 Jan 04 - 07:21 AM
Joybell 15 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM
GUEST,baby*shake 31 Jan 08 - 11:37 PM
Rowan 01 Feb 08 - 09:42 PM
GUEST,Whipka 01 Nov 08 - 05:37 AM
GUEST,Karen, Cheshire, Uk 17 Mar 09 - 04:19 PM
Azizi 31 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM
Azizi 31 Aug 09 - 08:38 AM
SINSULL 31 Aug 09 - 09:14 AM
Azizi 31 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM
Azizi 31 Aug 09 - 04:46 PM
Azizi 31 Aug 09 - 04:59 PM
GUEST,Big Steak 02 Oct 09 - 06:35 PM
Jack Campin 13 Dec 09 - 03:07 PM
GUEST,Paula 13 Jan 11 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,nanniijannii 09 Jun 16 - 03:03 AM
Share Thread
more
Lyrics & Knowledge Search [Advanced]
DT  Forum
Sort (Forum) by:relevance date
DT Lyrics:



Subject: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Golly
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 08:27 AM

Can anyone give me any info on this song? It is sung by 2 eldely ladies in Barnsdale Australia and they probably learnt it in the 1930's
I'll sing 1 what is 1
1 is mother Eytie touch her on the other eye
now let us see who can dance as good as me

I'll sing 2 what is 2
2 is mother hennesy 1 is mother Eytie touch her on the other eye
now let us see who can dance as good as me
etc
3 is eternity
4 is a dirty door
5 is the beehive
6 is crucifix
7 is the gates of heaven
8 is golden gate
9 is sunshine
10 is Big Ben


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Joybell
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:16 PM

Welcome Golly, My cousin thinks she may have sung this song. She went to a catholic school in the 1930s, in Melbourne. You might try singing it to her over the phone. I'll send you her number. Regards Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Joybell
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 05:43 PM

I keep remembering a singing-dance we did at school in Melbourne. "The Seven Steps". It went:
(All circle right, holding hands)

Have you ever heard of the seven steps?
Have you ever heard of the seven steps?
You say that I can't dance a step
I can dance as well as any chap
This is One. (Drop hands and kneel on right knee).

This was repeated through to seven with 2. - as kneel on both knees, 3. both knees and right elbow, 4. both knees and both elbows, 5. both knees, both elbows and right wrist, 6. both knees , both elbows, and both wrists, 7. same as 6. with head on ground as well.


There is a thread here that mentions a song called "The Seven Steps" which is not the same but may be related. It's noted as an Irish song. "The Seven Joys of Mary" which is mentioned there may also have some connection. Your song sounds more fun, Golly. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 06:17 PM

G'day Golly,

I think I have this one on a CD from small Australian label Dulcetone: Home Sweet Home. This is a collection of field recordings, by Alan Musgrave, of traditional performers, generally around the Warrnambool area of Victoria ... the aim is to show that traditional performance continues, outside of "professional" venues. I imagine that the Ba(i)rnsdale source you quote would be the same as Alan's recording's source.

I'll dig it out, when I get home, and scan in the relevant details (as well as details of the recording, which is still on sale - as Alan had them at the Gulgong Folk Festival last week).

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 06 Jan 04 - 09:36 PM

G'day aagin Golly,

I presume there is more information on the CD notes ... although I can't remember many other details! If there is not enough, I will dig out an e-mail address for Alan Musgrave and PM it to you. He has now moved back from the Warrnambool district of Victoria to the Illawarra - just south of Sydney, New South Wales.

Regards,

Bob


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: IanC
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 07:40 AM

Joybell

Your "Seven Steps" sounds like "Seven Springs" ... a dancing game in England. Does it hava a particular tune?

:-)


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 08:39 AM

Er ... G'day yet again Golly,

I had a look at Alan Musgrove's (Oops ... I've been listening to too many old and bloody ballads ... !) CD - and this track is one he drew from earlier recording by Max Dyer of Benambra district (brother of the singers), in 1983. His notes only read:

Who Will Dance As Good As Me - Jean Rundell & Aileen Lazarus
tyhis cumulative song is typical in form to many children's playground songs, although it has never been collected to my knowledge. It was remembered by Jean and Aileen from their childhood during the 1920s.

Elsewhere Alan says the sisters learnt many of their songs at home.

I will see if I can dig up Alan's current e-mail address ... and ask him directly if he has any more information.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,golly
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 08:07 AM

thanks Bob but we are going in circles as I got it from Alan originally, I'm hoping to use it in a primary school pageant and I'm still keeen to find out more about it to add relevance to the performance.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 07:11 PM

IanC, Thanks that sounds interesting. "The Seven Steps" was sung by us to the tune of "Incey Wincey Spider" or "Sweetly Sings the Donkey" with a B part that went:
G G A A G F F
F F G G F E E
G G(one octave lower) C
These are just the accented notes.

I just found mention of this dance/game on a Western Australian website. It is a fitness program for kids. They don't give the tune so I assume that teachers still know it here in Australia. The internet is no help. Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:27 PM

G'day Golly,

OK - I realised Alan might not know more, since he did not record the primary informants. I guess that the one you need to contact is Max Dyer of Benambra - or his sisters; Jean Rundell & Aileen Lazarus. Perhaps Alan is still in contact, or has contact details - but I can't find any e-mail for Alan. I've been a bit distracted lately by oher crises, but I'll contact folklorist Rob Willis, who seems to run the business end of Dulcetone and see if he has an e-mail contact ... or can pass on your query.

I don't know how far back Alan got the 1983 recordings from Max Dyer, so I don't know how much success you will have in that direction. Apart from that, what you are doing, asking 'Catters if they have any more knowledge of the song is about as good a research tool as you will get. Other than this, I might suggest contacting Gwenda Davies (Melbourne ... ?), who has written extensively on children's songs.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 09:45 PM

G'day again Golly,

Damn ... senior moments creep up on one ... that should have been Gwenda Davey:

Dr Gwenda Beed Davey AM (Monash University - Centre for Australian Studies ... ?).

I can't spot a direct connection for her, but you might start with:

Australian Folklore Research Unit
Curtin University of Technology
GPO Box 1987
PERTH WA 6845

or go directly to Dr Graham Seal, who co-edited the Oxford Companion to Australian Folklore with her, at: G.Seal@curtin.edu.au.

Regards,

Bob Bolton


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 11:04 PM

when i was a girl, we sang (chanted) these during skipping & clapping game":

My mother said I never should
Play with the gypsies in the wood.
If I did, she would say:
Naughty girl to disobey.
Disobey, disobey,
Naughty little girl to disobey

Over the garden wall
I let the baby fall,
My mother came out and gave me a clout,
And sent me over the wall.

Cinderella Dressed in Yella went downstairs and met a fella.. (can't remember the rest)

freda


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: freda underhill
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 11:23 PM

grey cells have revived..

Cinderella, dressed in yella
went downtown to meet a fella
on the way her panties busted,
How many people were disgusted?
10, 20, 30, 40, 50...


Not last night but the night before
Three tom cats came knocking at the door
One with a fiddle
And one with a drum
And one with a pancake
Stuck up his bum

A sailor went to sea, sea, sea.
To see what he could see, see, see.
But all that he could see, see, see.
Was the bottom of the deep blue sea, sea, sea.

we used these in skipping & clapping games - & also played elastics - anyone else play elastics?

fred


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 07:14 AM

My kids played "elastics" Freda. You must be a bit younger than I am. We did many of the rhymes you mention but I hadn't heard the tomcat one. It's great. Did you dance "The Seven Steps"? Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: freda underhill
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 07:21 AM

Hi Joybell

I turn 50 in a couple of months - so I don't know whether that's older or younger than you! but hi, I have been reading your posts and see that you're from victoria, and have been to Nariel donkey's years ago.

i waqs a folkie in Canberra many years ago, and used to go to the Yarralumla woolshed, and listen to bob mcguiness, jacko kevans and the old crowd there. i got back into the folk scene seven years ago
and settled in very happily.

I never knew the Seven Steps, that one's a mystery to me!

best wishes   Amalina


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM

Hello Amilina, Lovely name! Well I'm not quite old enough to be your Mum. I'll be 59 next week. I've been around, at least the fringes of the folk scene, since the sixties. I've been a working musician since the 70s - a nurse as well until recently. We don't get much work now but we try to get into the festivals when we can. Don't know the Canberra scene, but we have a few friends there. We'll be at the National this year. Perhaps we'll meet sometime. Regards Joy


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,baby*shake
Date: 31 Jan 08 - 11:37 PM

Cinderella, dressed in yella
went downtown to kiss her fella,
by mastake she kissed a snake,
How many cute boys did it take?
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10........


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Rowan
Date: 01 Feb 08 - 09:42 PM

Cinderella, dressed in yella is the title of a collection of children's playground rhymes, songs, games etc edited by Ian Turner in 1969 and now out of print. It is the Oz equivalent of the Opies' collection. My copy (kindly sent to me by JennieG) is at home so I can't consult it immediately but I don't recall Golly's item being listed.

From the original post I suspect Golly may have only heard the name "Bairnsdale", rather than seen it in print, because the pronunciation of the name (by other than locals) often changes "bairn" to "barn", even though the name of the town derives from the Scots name for infants. Curiously, many Australians do the opposite when pronouncing "Cairns" (the name of the north Queensland city) and, instead, call it "Cans".

Cheers, Rowan


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,Whipka
Date: 01 Nov 08 - 05:37 AM

Seven Steps sounds very much like 'Zeven Stappen'. It's a Dutch children's song, and my Dad grew up with it. We live in the midwestern US.
You stand in a large circle, and hold hands, side stepping while you sign, and pausing to say the numbers, and do their corresponding action.

CHORUS:
Have you ever heard of the dansen zeven?
Have you ever heard of the seven steps?
Do you really think that I can't dance them,
I dance them like an edelman,


Een! (Stomp right klompen/foot, hands on hips)
Lock hands again: CHORUS
Een! (Action) Twee! (Stomp left klompen/foot)
Lock hands again: CHORUS
Een! (Action) Twee! (Action) Drie! (Down on right knee)

Keep adding each additional number and it's action as you go!

Vier (Down on left knee)
Vijf (Down on right elbow)
Zas (Down on left elbow)
Zeven!!! (Lie flat on the ground!)

I am very curious as to the origins of this song!! It's tradition for us!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,Karen, Cheshire, Uk
Date: 17 Mar 09 - 04:19 PM

My mother said..

This was the way my gran (born 1908) sang it to me ..
My mother said I never should
play with the gypsies in the wood
If I did she would say
Naughty girl to disobey, disobey, disobey
Naughty girl to disobey

I had a bonnet trimmed with blue
Why don't you wear it so I do
I do wear it when I can
To go out with my young man
My young man lives down there
Selling pop and ginger beer
Halfpenny cakes penny pies
Little piggies with the current eyes

Oh dear Johnny where have you been
Down in the alley courting Sally
Breaking windows picking up cinders
Oh what fun we had last night

Mrs Cooper dressed in black
Silver buckles down her back
I love her she loves me
Lock the door and turn the key!


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:33 AM

Here are some additional versions of & comments about the children's rhyme/song "My Mother Said Not To Play With The Gypsies In The Woods" from this blog:

http://www.emule.com/2poetry/phorum/read.php?7,153869,154316
Lost Poetry Quotations


janette; Date: November 04, 2004

ok heres a poem thats from turn of the centuary, i know the whole thing my heart but i can't find the name of ir or who wrote it:
"My mother said never to play with the gypsies in the woods, and if i did she would say naughty girl to disobey Your hair chant curl your shoes chant shine you naughty girl you chant be mine my father said that if i did he would bang my head with a tea pot lid"
Theres more to it but thats the whole first part, i would really appreciate it if ne one could give me ideas, or where i could look to find information on it!

**

Re: My mother said never to play with the gypsies
Posted by: marian2; Date: November 04, 2004

The lines Janette quoted were chanted in one of those schoolgirls games where you clap hands with another girl, crossing your wrists etc, which we played when I was at school in the late 1960s. I may have been taught it by my mother, can't remember for sure.


**
Re: My Mother Said Never Play With Gipsies
Posted by: ilza ; Date: November 04, 2004

My Mother said, I never should Play with the gipsies in the wood; If I did, she would say, You naughty girl to disobey. Your hair shan't curl and your shoes shan't shine, You gipsy girl, you shan't be mine. And my father said that if I did He'd rap my head with the teapot-lid. The wood was dark, the grass was green Along came Sally with a tambourine. I went to sea - no ship to get across, I paid ten shillings for a blind white horse. I up on his back And was off on a crack, Sally tell my mother that I shan't come back.

the only reference I could find so far was this one, from December 12, 1976 Times Herald Record

**

Re: My Mother Said Never Play With Gipsies
Posted by: Andy; Date: November 30, 2004

All of the above, but I remember my mother teaching my sister an additional part:
"Disobey one, Disobey two, Disobey over Waterloo"

Re: My mother said never to play with the gypsies
Posted by: Linda; Date: December 03, 2004

The Puffin Book of Verse, Eleanor Graham (ed), 1953, has the poem much as you give it and credit it to Anon.

The Puffin Book of Nursery Rhymes, Iona & Peter Opie, 1963 has a different version.

My Mother said that I never should Play with the gipsies in the wood; If I did, she would say, Naughty girl to disobey, Disobey, disobey. Naughty girl to disobey.
I have a bonnet trimmed with blue. Why don't you wear it? So I do. When do you wear it? When I can, Walking to chuech with my young man.
My young man has gone to France To teach the ladies how to dance. When he comes back he'll marry me, Give me kisses, One, Two, Three.
Marry you! No such thing! Yes, indeed, he bought me a ring; Bought me a biscuit, bought me a tart. What do you think of my sweetheart?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 08:38 AM

Here's a link to a YouTube video/photo collage of a song based on the rhyme "My Mother Said Never To Play With The Gypsies In The Woods".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4mouHXqPQw
My Mother said - Nursery Rhyme + Gypsy Kids

Posted by nocturne163; February 22, 2009

"My Mother said i never should
play with the Gypsies in the Wood...
A Nursery Rhyme about a stupid prejudice ,
but also catching in a strange way .
So i've wrote a little song to this, and i've also changed the lyrics a bit .
To me gypsy people are great and fascinating ,
and they have a lot of wonderful musicians and other artists!
All the copyright for the music belong to me ."


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: SINSULL
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 09:14 AM

From Stop The World I Want To Get Off:

My mother said
I never should
Play with the young boys in the woods
If I did
She would say
You'll be sorry on Labor Day.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:38 PM

Sinsull, I had to look up what "Stop the World - I Want to Get Off was/is". For the few (I'm sure) others who also didn't know this reference, kipedia has the following information:

"Stop the World - I Want to Get Off is a musical with a book, music, and lyrics by Leslie Bricusse and Anthony Newley.

Music Leslie Bricusse
Anthony Newley

Lyrics Leslie Bricusse
Anthony Newley

Book Leslie Bricusse
Anthony Newley

Productions
1961 West End
1962 Broadway
1966 Film
1978 Broadway revival

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_the_World_-_I_Want_to_Get_Off


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:46 PM

This verse from GUEST,Karen, Cheshire, Uk 's post:

Mrs Cooper dressed in black
Silver buckles down her back
I love her she loves me
Lock the door and turn the key!


are almost exactly the same as the first two lines of the American children's rhyme:

Miss Mary Mack dressed in black
silver buckles up and down her back.

-snip-

Do those two lines show up in any other children's rhymes or English folk songs? If so, I'd appreciate someone posting which ones. Also, I read somewhere that those lines come from an English riddle "What is a coffin?" Is there any truth to that or is an example of that fakelore?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Azizi
Date: 31 Aug 09 - 04:59 PM

Here's another version of "My Mother Said (I Never Should Play Eith the Gypsies In The Wood) from another Mudcat thread:

Subject: RE: Lyr/Chords Add: Nursery rhymes
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 02:36 PM

My Mother said, I never should Play with the gypsies in the wood. If I did, she would say; 'Naughty girl to disobey! Your hair shan't curl and your shoes shan't shine, You gypsy girl, you shan't be mine! And my father said that if I did, He'd rap my head with the teapot lid. My mother said that I never should Play with the gypsies in the wood. The wood was dark, the grass was green; By came Sally with a tambourine. I went to sea - no ship to get across; I paid ten shillings for a blind white horse. I upped on his back and was off in a crack, Sally tell my mother I shall never come back

thread.cfm?threadid=32361

-snip-

The line "I paid ten shillings for a blind white horse" reminds me of the "Went To The River But I Couldn't Get Across/paid five dollars for an old gray horse" verses that are found in a number of 19th century or earlier African American secular songs. Some of those songs also include the "hopped on his back" line.

Could the popularity of the American minstrel shows in 19th century England account for that line showing up in that version of the "My Mother Said" rhyme? In other words, does anyone here think that
the "I paid ten shillings for a blind white horse" comes from the African American influenced minstrel songs?


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,Big Steak
Date: 02 Oct 09 - 06:35 PM

That song "Have you ever heard of the 7 steps?" is reputed to have a religious origin. It was supposed to have ancient meso-american roots. The Spanish conqiustadors noted the tune as a joyous chant that acolytes sang as they approached one of their pyramids at harvest festival - I cant remember which one. The devotees were supposed to dance in seven mystical ways. I have seen a pictograph of steps 1 and 2 but not the rest. Funny how the tune is now a kids song.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: Jack Campin
Date: 13 Dec 09 - 03:07 PM

More on the Bear Dance/Seven Steps in this thread: Origins: Bear Dance.

(I'm from Scotland - see my website: www.campin.me.uk. But this isn't the sort of forum where we do introductions - you just go straight into it if you have something to contribute, and if not, lurk).


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: Sailor Ryhmm and Elastics
From: GUEST,Paula
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 11:38 AM

I played elastics. I think we called it Ching Chang. I went to a Catholic school in the US from 1958 to 1965. Also, we added four versus to the sailor ryhmm.

A sailor went to sea, sea, sea...(hold hand above eyebrow and look around)

A sailor went to knee, knee, knee...(pat knees)

A sailor went to chop, chop, chop...(chopping motion on the arm)

A sailor went to oowatchica...(bend at the knees and circle the hips)

then we would do them all together quickly
A sailor went to sea, chop, knee, owatchica...

Who knows who might have added the versus. It could have been one of my classmates.


My mother used to say this rhymm

There was a little girl
Who had a little curl
Right in the middle of her forehead
When she was good, she was very, very good
But when she was bad, she was horrid.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate

Subject: RE: Aussie Childrens' School Song origin?
From: GUEST,nanniijannii
Date: 09 Jun 16 - 03:03 AM

https://mysongfile.com/songs/the_seven_steps
A great site to find some of these old songs - I found the seven steps when I started researching after my little grandson came home yesterday and said he had learnt a new song and when I told him I knew it he was very impressed with nanny. We couldn't get the last two lines right so I started researching.


Post - Top - Home - Printer Friendly - Translate
  Share Thread:
More...

Reply to Thread
Subject:  Help
From:
Preview   Automatic Linebreaks   Make a link ("blue clicky")


Mudcat time: 21 February 5:12 AM EST

[ Home ]

All original material is copyright © 1998 by the Mudcat Café Music Foundation, Inc. All photos, music, images, etc. are copyright © by their rightful owners. Every effort is taken to attribute appropriate copyright to images, content, music, etc. We are not a copyright resource.