Origins:Where My Eileen is Waiting/Over the Mountn

Subject: Origins:Where My Eileen is Waiting/Over the Mountn
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Mar 00 - 03:05 AM

Here is the Traditional Ballad Index entry for this song:

Over the Mountain (I) (Allanah Is Waiting for Me)

DESCRIPTION: "I'm always light-hearted and easy, Not a care in this world have I." The singer is joyful because he is so close to his love, even though she is over the (mountain/ocean). He is preparing for a reunion
AUTHOR: unknown
EARLIEST DATE: 1882 (ColemanAndMcCarthyChampionSongBook)
KEYWORDS: love home nonballad reunion
FOUND IN: US(MW) Canada(Ont)
REFERENCES (3 citations):
Dean-FlyingCloud, p. 75, "Allanah Is Waiting For Me" (1 text)
Vikár/Panagapka-SongsNorthWoodsSungByOJAbbott 48, "Over the Mountain" (1 text, 1 tune)
ColemanAndMcCarthyChampionSongBook, p. 57, "Over the Mountain" (1 text)
Roud #7450
ALTERNATE TITLES:
Ila, My Darling
NOTES [397 words]: This is an extremely mysterious song, because the versions are so diverse. The earliest version I've found was in an online manuscript of songs sung by Agnes Amelia Ransom Burton in 1957; the document claims she learned it in 1908 from her husband Caleb Johnson Burton. In that version, it's "Ila, My Darling," and it looks like an Irish emigration song, with the guy leaving the girl behind. Then comes Dean-FlyingCloud's text, in which the girl is "Eileen" (yes, the girl is "Allanah" in the title, but she's "Eileen" in the text. Wilgus thought the title an error); it's interesting to note that Dean knew many Irish and stage-Irish songs. Then Uncle Dave Macon had at it, and you can imagine the shape it was in after that!
O. J. Abbott's text clearly has Irish roots; there is a touch of Gaelic in the chorus. The girl here is "Eli," pronounced "Eelee," which is reminiscent of Burton's "Ila" as well as Dean's "Eileen."
Roud lumps this with Randolph's text "My Little One's Waiting for Me." There are a few similar words, but I don't see it. - RBW
RBW cites Wilgus. Anyone interested in this song should read D.K. Wilgus, "The Text Is The Thing" in The Journal of American Folklore, Vol. LXXXVI, No. 341 (Jul-Sep 1973 (available online by JSTOR)), pp. 241-252. Wilgus traces "Over the Mountain" and its derivatives through six texts, and lists the words for all of them:
Date........Source and Title
n.d.(19c?)..Nugent Songsters: My Mountain Molly
1905........Irish manuscript: My Eily
1922........Dean Flying Cloud: Allanah Is Waiting for Me
1925........Fiddlin' John Carson: The Grave of Little Mary Phagan
1927........Earl Johnson: Little Grave in Georgia
1929........Dave Macon: Over the Mountain
The Meade Spottswood Meade entry for I-C75b "Grave of Little Mary Phagan" -- not to the same song as "Mary Phagan" [Laws F20] -- notes "adapted from 'Over the Mountain' [see II-G28] by John Carson, ca. 1917" (p. 92); their note for II-G28 "Over the Mountain" has that song being printed in songsters, beginning with William J. Scanlon's Peek-A-Boo Songster (1882) (pp. 230,906) [Guthrie T Meade Jr with Dick Spottswood and Douglas S. Meade, Country Music Sources (Chapel Hill:Southern Folklife Collection University of North Carolina, 2002)].
The Carson, Johnson and Macon cuts are available from iTunes. I haven't seen the Scanlon songster so I can't vouch for it. - BS
Last updated in version 7.0
File: R850A

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WHERE MY EILEEN IS WAITING (DT Lyrics)

I am always light-hearted and easy,
Not a care in the world have I,
For I know I am loved by a colleen
And I could not forget if I tried.
She lives far away o'er the mountain
Where the little birds sing on the trees;
In a cottage all covered with ivy
My Eileen is waiting for me.

cho: It's over, it's over the mountain
Where the little birds sing on the trees,
In a cottage all covered with ivy
My Eileen is waiting for me.

The time I bade good-bye to Eileen
Is a time I will never forget
For the tears bubbled up from their slumbers
I fancy I see them yet;
They looked like the pearls in the ocean
As she wept her tale of love.
And she said "My dear boy, don't forget me
Till we meet here again or above.

from Folksongs and Ballads Popular in Ireland, Ossian Publications
@Irish @parting @love
filename[ MYEILEEN
TUNE FILE: MYEILEEN
CLICK TO PLAY
RG

Subject: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Fedela
Date: 07 Jan 04 - 11:53 PM

It has been pointed out before in this forum that "Where My Eileen is Waiting" (in the DT) is very similar to the American "Over the Mountain", sung by Uncle Dave Macon. The latter has also been recorded by Don McLean and Michael Johnathon.

I noticed, though, that there are minor differences between their lyrics. One of these, which puzzles me, is that "Over the Mountain" uses the single word "ollie" in place of both "colleen" and "Eileen" that are used in "Where My Eileen is Waiting."

My question is: which of the two songs/versions came first? In other words, did the song originate in Ireland or America? Did it exist in Ireland before Uncle Dave Macon sang it? If the answer is yes, how did "colleen" and "Eileen" become "ollie"? Does the word "ollie" mean anything to the Irish, or is it just a short form for the name Olivia?

An answer/explanation would be most appreciated.

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: Stewie
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 03:57 AM

According to country music historian, Dr Charles Wolfe, Uncle Dave's 'Over The Mountain' was written by William Scanlon, a 19th century Irish ballad singer from Massachusetts. Scanlon, however, seems a bit of mystery. I have looked all over online - Google, Mamma, Intelliseek, Levy, Duke, American Memory, encyclopedias (general and biographical) etc - and came up with zilch on the man. I am beginning to think that Wolfe must have made him up!

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Fedela
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:05 AM

Thank you for the answer, Stewie. Let's hope someone else can throw some light on the mystery. Could Wolfe have got the name wrong? Or has the song an Irish origin after all?

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Fedela
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:30 AM

I just found a reference to "...Bill Scanlon [William J. Scanlon, famous Irish singer and songwriter]..." in an online article by Tim Gracyk on Ulysses 'Jim' Walsh. The quotation is from Walsh. This is the link:

http://www.garlic.com/~tgracyk/walsh.htm

So there is/was an Irish singer and songwriter called William J Scanlon, but no indication where he comes/came from.

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Fedela
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 06:50 AM

Sorry I spelt Scanlan's name wrongly in the quotation above. When I looked again at the article, it is "William J Scanlan" and there's quite a lot of info about him at the "Composers-Lyricists Database" at
http://nfo.net/cal/ts1.html

He was born in 1856 at Springfield MA and among the list of songs he composed were "Over the Mountain" and "Moonlight at Killarney".

So it does look as if "Where My Eileen is Waiting" has an Irish-American origin! Unless anyone knows anything to the contrary.

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: Stewie
Date: 08 Jan 04 - 07:03 PM

Fedela, thanks for the link. Consulting Meade et alia 'Country Music Sources: A Biblio-Discography of Commercially Recorded Traditional Music', a book that was not available when I was looking for info on 'Over The Mountain', the authors consistently use the spelling 'Scanlon'. Meade and Wolfe were/are meticulous researchers so I would think the 'Scanlan' spelling is wrong. My search of the Net was almost 3 years ago and the online references you give may not have existed then - I searched 'Scanlon', but I hope would have tried the alternative 'Scanlan'.

Meade gives 'William Scanlon w&m 1882. There were no recordings before Uncle Dave's who recorded it twice: 31 June 1929 in Chicago [Br 349]; and 22 January 1935 in New Orleans [Bb B5926]. Meade gives the following printed sources:

William Scanlon's Peek-a-Boo Songster 1882 p5
The Jerome's [Charles & Ella] Burlesque Songster 1883 p44
Harper Brothers' Only A Shamrock Songster 1883 p42
Henry Melville's Dublin's Gem Songster 1883 p35
Mr George Fairfield & Miss Sadie Irwin's California's Emerald Jewels Songster 1883-84 p34
Delaney's Songbook #1 NYC 1892 p3
Good Old-Time Songs #3 [NYC Wehman Brothers 1910-16] 1914 p76

It is interesting to note the Fiddlin' John Carson used several stanzas of 'Over The Mountain' with minimal changes for his 'The Grave of Little Mary Fagan'.

Sure, I'm always lighthearted
Not a keer in this world have I
I know I'm loved by a daisy
That I couldn't forget if I tried

She sleeps far away in the mountains
Where the little birds sing in the trees
Little grave it's covered with ivy
Our love ones are waiting for thee

The rest of the song is more original, except:

The day she left her dear mother
That day I shall never forget
The morning she walked to the car line
I fancy I still see her yet

[Gene Wiggins 'Fiddlin' Georgia Crazy' pp 39-40 for a detailed discussion of this]

Note that Carson substituted 'daisy' for 'colleen' or 'Ollie'. Wiggins references D.K. Wilgus and Nathan Hurvitz 'Little Mary Phagan: Notes on a Native American Ballad in Context' Journal of Country Music #4 1973 and D.K. Wilgus 'The Text Is The Thing' Journal of American Folklore #86 July-Sept 1973 with the comment that 'in some renditions a proper name is given'. Although related to the Mary Phagan murder ballads, the Wilgus essays may have some reference to Scanlon.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Fedela
Date: 09 Jan 04 - 12:09 AM

Stewie, thanks a lot for your wealth of references and the correct spelling of "Scanlon". I guess the Composers-Lyricists Database got it wrong and the mistake was perpetuated by Walsh and Gracyk, although in the part I quoted above, both spellings were used, ie "Bill Scanlon" and "William J Scanlan." In fact, I suspected that the article turned up because I typed "Bill Scanlon" after many frustrating attempts at finding "William Scanlon".

Alas, I'm not in a country where the journals and books you mentioned are available. I'm just a Don McLean fan from Malaysia, and I don't think our libraries stock material on American traditional music. However, I'll copy the references you've provided and will try to look some things up on my next visit West.

Thank you also for showing the similarities of "Over the Mountain" with 'The Grave of Little Mary Fagan'. I wonder how often such 'borrowings' occur in folk music?

Subject: RE: Origins: Where My Eileen is Waiting
From: GUEST,Jamie
Date: 16 Jul 25 - 12:07 PM

This might help with some of your questions. It would appear that what someone referred to as “Ollie” was, in fact, “Eily” for Eileen.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0YJwzhQIlk