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The Cut Capo

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SmilingMusician 14 Jan 04 - 03:12 PM
Bee-dubya-ell 14 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM
PoppaGator 14 Jan 04 - 03:38 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 14 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,Michael M 14 Jan 04 - 04:53 PM
mooman 14 Jan 04 - 06:14 PM
Mooh 14 Jan 04 - 11:57 PM
clansfolk 15 Jan 04 - 04:57 AM
SmilingMusician 20 Jan 04 - 10:22 PM
Murray MacLeod 21 Jan 04 - 03:56 AM
Big Al Whittle 13 Dec 05 - 08:42 PM
Once Famous 13 Dec 05 - 09:18 PM
The Fooles Troupe 13 Dec 05 - 09:43 PM
Once Famous 13 Dec 05 - 09:50 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Dec 05 - 03:58 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Dec 05 - 04:52 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Dec 05 - 06:39 AM
Big Al Whittle 14 Dec 05 - 07:11 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Dec 05 - 07:35 AM
Grab 14 Dec 05 - 07:57 AM
Richard Bridge 14 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM
GUEST,Raggytash 14 Dec 05 - 10:01 AM
Grimmy 14 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM
Grab 14 Dec 05 - 01:30 PM
Cluin 14 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM
Claymore 14 Dec 05 - 04:45 PM
GUEST,Martin Gibson 14 Dec 05 - 05:53 PM
Richard Bridge 14 Dec 05 - 06:01 PM
Claymore 15 Dec 05 - 11:22 AM
GUEST,Martin gibson 15 Dec 05 - 12:52 PM
GUEST,Whistle Stop 15 Dec 05 - 01:32 PM
Big Al Whittle 15 Dec 05 - 06:22 PM
Once Famous 15 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 05 - 10:42 AM
Nick 16 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM
Big Al Whittle 16 Dec 05 - 04:03 PM
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Subject: The Cut Capo
From: SmilingMusician
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 03:12 PM

Are there any guitar players out there that have experimented with the "Cut Capo"? It just covers the 3rd, 4th and 5th strings (unles you put it on backwards then it covers the 2nd, 3rd and 4th). You're s'posed to put it on the 2nd fret, which would change your tuning to E, B, E, A, B, E. Of course, it would be same thing as lowering the 1st, 2nd and 6th a whole step, harmonically. It just gives you an automatic re-tuning, without re-tuning, and of course requires a lot of figuring out and experimenting.

I'm interested in some of the harmonic possibilities. Anyone been using it?


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM

Take a look at THIS THREAD.

Bruce


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: PoppaGator
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 03:38 PM

There have been several threads about specialized capos. Somebody makes one that can be set up to leave any string or combination of strings open while capo-ing the others.

Reading that thread (about six months ago, maybe?) inspired me to try one of the simplest variations: clamping five strings at the second fret while leaving the bottom E string open, and then playing in D.

Gives the effect of a dropped-D bass string EXCEPT that you can use all your regular chords shapes across all six strings. That's a benefit of the partial capo that I hadn't imagined beforehand. The special-capo manufaturer's website explains all this very clearly.

If and when I remember the brand name of this product, I'll post again. That name would be the key not only to the maker's website, but also to previous threads on this topic.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 04:33 PM

The dropped D capo you describe is made by Kyser and is just a somewhat shortened version of their quick-change capo that only does the first 5 strings leaving the 6th open.

I have seen it in the Elderly catalog.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Michael M
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 04:53 PM

There's a shubb that has the same layout.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: mooman
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 06:14 PM

I have several old capos that I have adapted with slots in different places that I use on their own or in conjunction with other capos for gigs.

Very handy if you regularly use different "exotic" tunings!

Peace

moo


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Jan 04 - 11:57 PM

Like Bruce said, search this site for references to partial capos and virtual tunings and I'm sure you'll find everything you need to know. I'd be surprised if there's much more to learn on the subject than has been written here over the years.

Peace, Mooh.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: clansfolk
Date: 15 Jan 04 - 04:57 AM

Shubb Partial Capo

History of third hand capo

I have found the Shubb to be the Best for the two variations of tuning mentioned. Main advantages using a Partial Capo instead of re-tuning.... less wear on strings, speed of "re-tuning", don't upset guitar shop staff, confuse guitarists at sessions :-),

But Mainly you can vary between the "open tuning" chords and standard chords, giving a greater variation of backing.

the above links may be interesting


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: SmilingMusician
Date: 20 Jan 04 - 10:22 PM

Thanks for all the info. I'll be checking it out.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Jan 04 - 03:56 AM

You don't need a specially modified capo to clamp the top five strings at the second fret for the dropped-D effect.

I've been using a standard Shubb capo to do this for years.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 08:42 PM

I sent for Shubbs two cut capos an like everybody else left them to rot for a while.

HOWEVER I GOT TO THINKING TONIGHT!

Supposing I'm playing Dropped D

All I've got to do is tighten up the second string to C,
capo at the second with my capo covering 3 strings and I have something resembling Joni Mitchell's CGCGCE tuning only it will be in D.

Imagine my frustration when the little bastard wouldn't stay on the neck and wouldn't give a clear first string.

It nearly worked on an old FG Yamaha model that I use, but with the slinky necks on my CPX models - it was worse than terrible - it was downright frustrating! I suppose it might work on those wide Lowden necks.

Come you guys - you're all brighter than me when it comes to music, I bet you dealt with this hundreds of time, but you just didn't tell me cos you thought I should work it out myself. Has somebody done one of these capo things that works.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:18 PM

I never bother using these capos as they are just some kind of gimmick.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:43 PM

Ahh! more precious psychological info retrieved!


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Once Famous
Date: 13 Dec 05 - 09:50 PM

Foolestroupe, do you use a cut capo for your lute when you wear your jester hat?

Or perhaps for some esoteric, navel gazing song about the mating of butterflies and unicorns in a meadow at midnight.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 03:58 AM

Try a Scott's tuning capo, 6 individual blocks that can be rotated to either rest on a string or not. He is based in Derbyshire England and they cost approx £8.00. The really clever bit however is that the rod thye rotate on is bevelled so it fits to a flat or round neck guitar, he also provides a few basic diagrams and chord shapes


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 04:52 AM

Thanks Raggytash. sounds worth a try - thank god he did something useful before going to the north pole.

I once told Martin Carthy that open tunings were cheating - and it wasn't a guitar any more. Wise tolerant man that he is, he said nothing. We all say daft things, it's part of the human condition.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:03 AM

just ordered one scott tuning capo from the music room, fingers crossed. will report back, if it works!

al


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:39 AM

:-)

That's probably why Roald Amunsen beat him to the South Pole, Scott must have taken the pretty route !


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:11 AM

As Les Barker pointed out, it was Spot of the Antarctic who got to the south pole first!


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:35 AM

oh no, Spot got there before Scott cos when Scott got there it was marked with a little yellow patch of snow, but even the erudite Mr Barker acknowledges that Amunsen got there first


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Grab
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 07:57 AM

For a change, I'm with Martin Gibson - they're just a gimmick. You want a different tuning, then retune, because you won't get most of the benefits otherwise. Using one to imitate drop-D tuning gives a nice resonance to D-chords, agreed. But without retuning, you can't walk up the unison octave notes on the two D strings as easily (in fact the low E is unavailable because the capo's in the way. And you don't get the extra resonance from the open-D G chord either, and when your hand isn't at the 5th fret to play the G chord then you don't have the extra range of high melody notes available either. If you're talking DADGAD, then it's utterly pointless because you can't use the adjacent G and A strings to do the close melody runs with the other string ringing on that are the hallmark of DADGAD, because as soon as you place a finger then you lose that effect.

There may be some specific arrangements that need a special capo - in fact, it might be fun to arrange one! :-) It's going to be *vanishing* rare though, and any other time it's going to be a hindrance. It certainly *can't* help you learn an open tuning, because you won't be using the open tuning when you're using the partial capo.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 08:48 AM

Raggytash, please PM me with contact details for the Scott tuning capo.

I use one (modified) and I have been terrifired of what to do when it wears out, and I get endless people asking me about it, and the contact details I had from when I bought it stopped working (sort of "gone away").


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 10:01 AM

Sorry Richard don't have them, he may have a web site, all I know is he is based in Derbyshire

Raggy


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Grimmy
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 11:16 AM

There's a young singer/songwriter from Liverpool called John Smith - REMEMBER THAT NAME! - who does some amazing things with a partial capo. eg in open tuning (don't know which) he will hit a harmonic on the open string, then immediately retune it (up and/or down), while still playing the capoed strings, creating some fantastic harmonic effects.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Grab
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 01:30 PM

I've seen Amrit Sond using the removal of partial capos to create effects during a tune - interesting effects but it was just a gimmick. (Mind you, all of Sond's performance that night seemed to be based around gimmicks, so maybe I need a better example. ;-)

That's the thing though - it would be possible to use them to create unique effects, but then they're unique effects designed around a normally-tuned guitar with a partial capo. These may overlap by a few percent with the unique effects possible with an open/altered tuning, but the overlap will be vanishing small. As for the other 90%+ of open-tuning possibilities, you can only get those by actually using an altered tuning. And if you plan on trying to achieve altered tuning stuff with a partial capo, you're going to blinker yourself into that small percentage of overlap - not the other 90%+ that is truly possible with the setup.

Graham.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Cluin
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 02:43 PM

Played around with partial capoing years ago. And gave it up as an inefficient diversion and decided to retune when I wanted that sound and hone my chops instead. There's no free lunch.

Not to say it won't work for others. actually I found a song that had a sound in it that couldn't be achieved by any other means than using two Kysers, one partially capoing strings higher up. But I could never see myself playing that song anyway.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Claymore
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 04:45 PM

Ah! You've discovered the secret weapon of the 6 string banjo players.

As noted above, if you tune down two steps and use the the dropped D Keyser (with the E string cutout) you have a drone D whith full use of all cords except Em. And if you use another full string Keyser capo always two frets down from the Dropped D capo, you can go up the neck in any key. I have a friend who is an excellent 5 string player and we have a ball on such tunes as Under the Double Eagle or March of St. Timothy, with me playing a running bass line while he is all over the neck and then reversing but with me still hitting the deep drone.

Incidently it also works very well on a detuned 12 sting, especially against Hammered Dulcimers.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 05:53 PM

Bluegrass guitarists, among the most proficient rhytmn and lead players there are, I would feel safe to say do not need a capo of this nature.

6 string banjos are for surfer boy wimps like Keith Urban.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 14 Dec 05 - 06:01 PM

Well, a lot of people ask me about my Scott tuning capo, and it enables me to do things I could not do without it. It also avoids re-tuning delays, which Martin Carthy (now there, surely, you have one of the most proficient guitarists) cites as the main reason he reduced his use of alternate tunings.

And here is the link to the Music Room who will sell you one


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Claymore
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 11:22 AM

Well Martin, I was a surfer in the early 60's as my Dad was stationed at Pearl Harbor, but the boards we used were much larger and heavier than the one they use now (I had a 17 footer "Big Gun" for the North Shore). We could do almost none of the fancy manuevers they pull off now, and were thankful not to get killed at the bottom much less teather yourself to a board.

As for six string banjos, if you have wit, and intelligence, and desire a bit of fun with some tunes, it can do some things a five string, a tenor, a guitar and a 12 sting guitar can't. And I can state that with some assurance, since as many others on the Mudcat know, I play them all...

And I have many friends who play bluegrass well and professionally, and you can have a lot of fun with them if you ask them to play a jig...


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Martin gibson
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 12:52 PM

I agree, claymore. a six-string banjo can be a marvelous snare drum if you take off the strings and bridge.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: GUEST,Whistle Stop
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 01:32 PM

I'm with Martin and Grab on this topic, for the most part. A partial capo does not really give you many of the advantages of an open tuning, because the interval relationships are a big part of what makes open tunings so special You can set up a partial capo to simulate a DADGAD-type tuning, for example, but it isn't really DADGAD, and most of what makes that tuning so magical is lost with this sort of simulation.

However, every time I start to think I know the "best" way to play guitar, someone comes along and blows me away by breaking all the rules, and knocking the air out of all my preconceptions. People do amazing things with guitars, whether or not I think that what they're doing makes sense.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 06:22 PM

well if it doesn't work for me - I'll let you know, or if it does.

Whist I would never use such a device for recording - obviously a full retune withthe whole lenghth of string to play with is the best option. however, it did occur to me that I had found a way of going from standard to C just re-tuning two strings and as such it was worth a go.

I have avoided open tunings for too long - they haven't been worth learning because I couldn't re-tune onstage without a lot of palaver.

However playing the variax guitar in pubs gave me an idea of what I was missing out on. Its not a gimmick as far as I'm concerned - if I can find a solution to a practical problem, I'm going to give it a go.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Once Famous
Date: 15 Dec 05 - 09:26 PM

Open tunings allow you to play at least one chord without knowing what to do with your left hand. For 3 chord songs, you guys have the song at 33 1/3 figured out how to play it. Now, the trick you can figure out next is what fret to press down on all of the strings at once to play the other two chords.

A) 2 and 4
B) 3 and 5
C) 5 and 7
D) None. It's a 1 chord song in open tuning

Good luck. Winner gets a regular cap partially sawed off.


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 10:42 AM

Bollocks! that doesn't work either. another £7 down the pan.

its a bit like six bits of lego that twizzle round and an an elastic strap.

It would work if I wanted tocapo the sixth and first, as I just want to capo the strings on one side of the guitar - 1, 2 and 3 - it lops over.

Merry Christmas Martin!


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Nick
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 12:48 PM

I'm sure you all know much more than me about all this stuff but I use my standard shubb capo as Murray way up the thread and find it very useful.

Two examples -

1 Love minus zero no limit. Rather than drop the bottom E down to C and then capo on the 4th fret (for that authentic Dylan sound) I stick my shubb over the top 5 strings at the 4th fret and play C F G to my hearts content. And either leave out the bottom string for the Dm chord or fret it under the capo for a giggle (yes - that is a gimmick). Bonus is that you still have the E string with it's normal tension etc and sound rather than detuned and then capoed back up; secondly you can easily use the bottom string for all the roots of the chords of the song (except the D unless you go for gimmicks) whereas it is much harder if you have the bottom string detuned 4 frets - where do you play the root of the G chord?

2 I live not where I love. I play this in G with capo at second fret again across the top 5 strings giving a drop D. It is much easier for me to play runs from G to C (of the G bottom string and open B, open A and C on B string, B on A string and D on B string - you know what I mean) while still having the option of an open bottom D, and an easily accessible F# and G etc

But I like playing in DADGAD and open D and G too but that is a different thing.

The partial capo is surely just another tool and way of doing isn't it? Works for some things and not for others. It's not better nor worse just different.

I have to say though that apart from the amusement value I always feel a bit silly playing with more than one capo on a guitar


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Subject: RE: The Cut Capo
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Dec 05 - 04:03 PM

no it doesn't sound as though we know alot more than you - you sound very original

I'd like to hear you play, Nick


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