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BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)

katlaughing 26 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM
Sandra in Sydney 27 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:23 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM
Bobjack 27 Jan 04 - 09:33 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:35 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:43 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 09:53 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,James 27 Jan 04 - 09:56 AM
Sam L 27 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM
Amos 27 Jan 04 - 10:36 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 11:15 AM
EBarnacle 27 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,James 27 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM
Mrs.Duck 27 Jan 04 - 01:22 PM
Greg F. 27 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM
Les in Chorlton 27 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM
freightdawg 27 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM
vectis 27 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM
*daylia* 27 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,JTT 27 Jan 04 - 07:55 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM
dianavan 27 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM
Sooz 28 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM
black walnut 28 Jan 04 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 28 Jan 04 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,Ozzy 28 Jan 04 - 08:14 AM
Greg F. 28 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM
Dead Horse 28 Jan 04 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,James 28 Jan 04 - 09:26 AM
Sam L 28 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM
NH Dave 28 Jan 04 - 10:22 AM
Greg F. 28 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 28 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM
Sooz 28 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM
Mrs.Duck 28 Jan 04 - 01:00 PM
Eric the Viking 28 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM
Sam L 28 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM
bet 29 Jan 04 - 09:46 AM
*daylia* 29 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM
Wolfgang 29 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 29 Jan 04 - 11:36 AM
Bobjack 29 Jan 04 - 11:45 AM
Barry Finn 29 Jan 04 - 02:27 PM
dianavan 29 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM
Penny S. 29 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM
Eric the Viking 29 Jan 04 - 04:50 PM
dianavan 29 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM
dick greenhaus 29 Jan 04 - 10:28 PM
katlaughing 30 Jan 04 - 12:08 AM
Amergin 30 Jan 04 - 12:54 AM
Peace 30 Jan 04 - 01:21 AM
Metchosin 30 Jan 04 - 03:21 AM
freda underhill 30 Jan 04 - 03:55 AM
Bobjack 30 Jan 04 - 06:55 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 30 Jan 04 - 07:11 AM
Sandra in Sydney 30 Jan 04 - 07:37 AM
Greg F. 30 Jan 04 - 08:00 AM
bet 30 Jan 04 - 09:42 AM
dianavan 30 Jan 04 - 01:33 PM
Peace 30 Jan 04 - 03:52 PM
*daylia* 30 Jan 04 - 06:10 PM
Wolfgang 02 Feb 04 - 10:52 AM
katlaughing 02 Feb 04 - 11:46 AM
Wolfgang 02 Feb 04 - 11:55 AM
katlaughing 02 Feb 04 - 07:22 PM
Sam L 03 Feb 04 - 11:07 AM

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Subject: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM

"After being interviewed by the school administration,
the eager teaching prospect said,


"Let me see if I've got this right.


You want me to go into that room with all those kids,
and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning.


And I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity,
modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even
censor their t-shirt messages and dress habits.


You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check
their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self
esteem.


You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, fair
play, how to register to vote,
how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job.


I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment,
recognize signs of anti-social behavior, offer advice, write letters of
recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage respect
for the cultural diversity
of others, and oh, make sure that I give the girls in my class
fifty percent of my attention.


My contract requires me to work on my own time after school, evenings and
weekends grading papers. Also, I must spend my summer vacation, at my own
expense, working toward advance certification and a Masters degree.


And on my own time you want me to attend committee
and faculty meetings, PTA meetings, and participate in
staff development training. I am to be a paragon of virtue,
larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my
students into being obedient and respectful of authority.


You want me to incorporate technology into the learning
experience, monitor web sites, and relate personally with each student.
That includes deciding who might be potentially
dangerous and/or liable to commit a crime in school.


I am to make sure all students pass the mandatory state exams, even those
who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments


Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps
get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental
or physical handicap.


And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter, telephone,
newsletter and report card.


All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer,
a few books, a bulletin board, a big smile AND on a starting
salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!


You want me to do all of this and yet you expect me......



"- NOT TO PRAY -"

(This came to me by email. It seems a few people thought maybe I'd lost my belief in the separation of church and state, so, this is what I posted, later. I've added it here for a an earlier clarification of where I stand. Thanks.:-)

"I was uncomfortable about the last line, too, but wanted to present the piece in its entirety. It was there to make a point about all that a teacher does, in my opinion, and was not meant as a commentary about prayer in school. You know I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state."


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM

bloody brilliant! I'm sending it to a teacher I know.

There's not much different here on Oz.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:23 AM

Here is a list of what we are blamed for......

Obesity, they drive them to MacDonalds, we don"t give them enough exercise.
Iliteracy...there is not a book in the house, kids attend less than half the time..we didn't do our job.

Lack of Sportsmanship..they beat each other and coaches up at Hocky Games....we don't teach them sportsmanship.

Teen Pregnancy..they don't know where the kids are at midnight...we didn't tell them about safe sex.


Bullying...Dad snacks Mum..we don't have a course on peaceful conflict resoloution.

Racism..they use reacial slurs regularly...We don't train them in ethnic sensitivity.

it goes on and on...teacher bashing is rampant and I am sick of it.

(they = parents) Who NEVER seem to be accountable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM

Brilliant!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM

At least you get twelve weeks holidays a year to recharge your batteries unlike the parents. Crouches down to avoid the "but we spend all our time marking work and lesson planning" barrage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Bobjack
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:33 AM

Three cheers for guest. Teaching? easy life!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:35 AM

So the poor parents don't get twelve weeks off..well, being a parent is not a job and it is not designed to have built in holidays. I have been teaching for many years and I don't get twelve weeks off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:43 AM

We all saw what teachers had to deal with as pupils. I didn't choose it as a career. The people who did, and are now complaining about it should get out and find suitable employment. It is rather an easy degree option. The best teachers love their CHOSEN profession. The rest whine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM

The best teachers love their CHOSEN profession. The rest whine

But that doesn't mean that even the good teachers don't have valid complaints. They do.

and many of the parents who "don't get a vacation" don't have any healthy interaction with their kids in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:53 AM

Twelve weeks Paid? I think not!

Parents Should raise the kids! You made the choise to have a kid you don't get Hollidays! People don't get that if you have a kid you are responsible for 18 years!!!!!!!!

Its hard to raise kids today right?   THEN DON'T. Quit your whinning!

You get two yuppies decide to have a kid, cuz thier friends have them and its fashonable, than they both continue working cuz money and advancement mean more than the kid so they get a nanny or use daycare and wonder why the kid is on drugs and steeling cars at 13!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:55 AM

The average working parent gets 4 to 6 weeks paid leave per year. Not their choice. Sure they would all appreciate being given 12 weeks.In the real world that isn't viable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:56 AM

I have posted here earlire as a guest..regarding twelve weeks vacation that as I teacher I don't and never have gotten. I just want to disassociate myself from those other guests.
   I love my work as a teacher and am very good at it but I feel that we do have legitimate complaints..among them;

Parents who abdicate all responsibility and then expect schools to pick up the slack. These Parents call us whiners.

School Boards who keep adding programs so that parents don't have to cope with many of the child's problems then do not provide the wherewithal to implement the program.

People who glibly say.."if you don"t like it get out". It is because we do like it and value it that we don't get out. If only we could just get on with teaching and send the armchair experts packing..we can only dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM

Maybe parents don't get a vacation but who drafted them?

   Unappreciative parents are idiots. But anyone can pray whenever and wherever they want, it's not an issue. Ostentatious social prayer is, and Jesus's opinion about that could not be more clear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:36 AM

..or less relevant. The last thing parents need is an icon to take responsibility for their errors for them. The only thing that makes a better parent is taking your own responsibility for your own damn 'sins', and facing up to your fellow human.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 11:15 AM

You can always tell a teacher. But you can't tell 'em much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM

Dear Guest1, among others things, I am a math teacher.

My Summers are taken up with taking courses for my second Master's Degree because I left my previous line of work for the opportunity to 'make a difference.'

My evenings are taken up with marking homework and writing and marking tests. The school I teach in came to me as a specialized school in the City of New York and asked me to join them. I took a cut in pay to do this.

My parents and my sister were/are also teachers, so I did not go into this with my eyes closed.

In other words, I teach because I am a teacher by nature. Now I have to get the coursework and paperwork finished to make it official. The list of issues in the first post are essentially unfunded mandates [Remember that phrase from the past decade? The Republicans made a big issue of them when they were out of office.] because there are not enough hours in the day and other people who will make the effort to to have them come true even without extra money. And you say we have no right to qvetch! HA!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM

Guest, What do you do for a living that you are 100% happy with?

It must be good to have a job that you don't "whine" about.

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:11 PM

Why do people feel they can bash teachers ? My husband and I no longer go to social gatherings. As soon as people know he is a teacher they proceed to heap abuse on him..perfect strangers feel that this is acceptable, teachers are fair game . Why is that ? It amazes me that such ignorance exists. As for not being able to tell teachers anything; that is such a childish, stupid type of generalizing that makes me see red. Grow up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM

Guest; I know what you mean by being attacked at social gatherings. I do not attend many sociel events either, for just that reason. It is a sad state when people feel free to abuse you because you happen to be a dedicated teacher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:22 PM

I am a teacher. I can't remember the last time I spent an evening without doing some sort of preparation or planning or recording. School holidays are often spent writing reports, development plans schemes of work etc. I have been sworn at, kicked, punched on many occasions but I have no way of changing the situation long term as regulations are geared towards pupils not staff. My salary is such that we still qualify for benefits. A teaching degree can never be regarded as an easy option. I actually enjoy the teaching but feel the level of administration and lack of support against unpleasant pupils and parents is making the profession one of the most stressful there is.
I am also a parent and did not have the option to stay at home much as I would have liked. My children are well adjusted well brought up articulate sociable beings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM

The "poor parents" need a vacation from kids? Whine, whine. Tell dad to keep it in his pants.

There's no requirement to breed, much less dump the product in someone else's lap to raise & socialize.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM

Never boring though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM

Here's to you teachers!

I commend you!

You do good, important work!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM

Mmmmmmmmm Not another thread made by people bemoaning their profession. Guess the rest of us are grateful for having one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: freightdawg
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM

I am not a teacher, though I would love to be one. I have some education in my background and in my former life (before flying) I taught (mostly adults) in an area most would not consider me as being a "teacher." I have taught quite a number of people the joy of flying, all the way from a private certificate through commercial. As one post above stated it, teaching does seem to be in my bones. But I don't think I could ever teach in a public setting. Why? The original post said it best. Teachers are not teachers anymore. They are called on to be social engineers/cops.

Instead of exposing children to the wonders of science, the beauty of poetry, the power of mathematics, the mystery of music and the majesty of spoken language, we expect teachers to do everything that the family used to do. Granted, there are way too many families that failed, or were not equiped to do this job very well. But instead of strengthening families, we dumped the job on teachers. Now teachers have twice or three times the job that my teachers had, with absolutely no authority (even raising your voice is enough to get you disciplined or fired) and increasing risks.

Self-esteem, sexual ethics, respect for others, responsibility, honesty, etc., should all be taught in the home, not the school. They can, and should be, reinforced in school, to be sure. Label me as old fashioned, but school should be for readin', writin', and 'rithmatic. Leave the social engineering for the folks best suited for it - mother, father, brothers, sisters, grand parents, aunts, uncles and friends.

And let's praise the teachers for attempting to do the impossible, and for the most part, doing it very well. My hat is off to you.

an educated and very grateful for it,

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: vectis
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM

You forgot the last line Kat

ALL PIGS FUELED AND READY FOR TAKE OFF


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM

Greg, whether children are the product of what's in your pants or someone else's, and no matter who abdicates responsiblity to whom for their care, feeding and education, one thing's for sure. When you and I are old, frail and relatively "powerless", THOSE KIDS are going to be running the world.

Your world, and mine.

That prospect's enough to persuade me that spending a little of my own time and personal energy on behalf of the health, happiness and education of the children in my community ("mine" or not) is a wise investment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 07:55 PM

Teaching must be the most satisfying job in the world. I do some teaching - mostly of adults, some with kids - and it's an incredible, brilliant feeling when they start to take off. And there's no feeling in the world like it when they fly.

But the idea that teachers should be badly paid - well, where did that come from? Have teachers no unions? After all, they're in a pretty strong bargaining position! What are parents going to do with their kids if the teachers won't mind them?

As for parents who blame teachers - well, there are some times when they're right. Sometimes it's more valuable to open your heart and your ears rather than reacting to aggression with aggression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM

Parents blaming teachers? Where?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM

I have taught K to adult. I'm glad to have meaningful employment. There's lots to dislike about the school system, especially when you just want to get on with the job teaching. However, its all worth it when you see the "lights go on" in someone's eyes and you hear them say, "I get it!"

That does not mean I enjoy being bashed. I also resent parents who are "not with the program" and expect me to parent their child. I often say to myself, "If I could just shut the door and teach..." How many bosses do you have? I have to answer to my students, their parents, the administration, the district, the province, the public and other teachers. Now thats stressful!

Just remember that school and education are two different things. I'm paid to do my job in a school system. We are all responsible for educating children. I cannot possibly be responsible for every societal ill whether it be poor parenting, poor diet, too much t.v. and internet or poverty.

My pet peeve? Parents who send their kids to school when they are sick! Who cares if the teacher or the other students get sick? Parents need to stay home to care for them or find alternate arrangements. I'm not a babysitter and I'm not a nurse!

Thats enough ranting and raving - I have to go count the money and see if I have enough for the field trip. If not, I'll probably top it up with my own money just like I have topped-up all my classroom supplies and books. And by the way - the field trip is a necessary part of their education. Have you ever tried to teach about community from a textbook?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sooz
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM

The original post is very clever and rooted in truth. However, people bash teachers because, as a profession we do tend to moan.
Setting myself up for abuse:
Mike and I started work 30 years ago with similar qualifications and at similar levels, he in industry and me as a teacher. Our responsibilty has kept in pace and but my salary has consistently been about 10% more than his.
I have twelve weeks holiday (of which I spend some time working) he has five weeks. He is expected to be on call twenty four hours a day -no extra pay but they generously provide him with a mobile phone and pay the bill!
I'm at home today because of the snow (our school is closed) he is at work.
Most of the time I love my job. The young men and women who take the trouble to thank me for the help I've given them so that they could achieve their ambitions just about makes up for the totally ungrateful behaviour of pupils and their parents who don't accept any resposibility for their own situations.
One moan though - I'd love to be able to go on holiday when it is cheap!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM

One morning I heard a parent being interviewed on the local Morning show. She was having a great go at teachers, they didn't teach her kids, they couldn't read or do math(both were Middle School), she called us lazy and overpaid...so on and so on. At the end of the clip her names was given and she was thanked for insight into public education. I recognized her name as that of parent of two children I am currently attempting to teach...neither child attends school regularly, both have been absent more that 50% of this school year, they never do homework, the parents never come to Parent teacher, the children have had social passes since third grade, they have severe behavourial problems and come from a very abusive environment.The media love people like her, they can assure a good bash at teachers without ever having to ask parents what role they play in the education of their own children. I love teaching but do I hate the politics of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: black walnut
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:46 AM

Hey Kat - that was excellent. I just came across it. I teach early childhood music. My only moan (well, the only big moan) is the lack of benefits. No medical, dental, eye doctor, vacation pay....but the place I work is right down the road from the best fish and chips place in the city of Toronto - now there's a benefit!!!

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:56 AM

Sooz, I'm maybe biased because I know who you (and your spouse) are and where you teach but, IMHO, you are a star in every sense of the word! Your posting is the most honest, least biased piece in this thread. And why? Because you can see both sides of the coin. Isn't it amazing how often a diatribe bewailing the gross unfairnesses heaped on teachers begins "My husband/wife and I are both teachers"? Clearly their only experience is of the academic life - basically they've never left school, so how can they know what life's like for those of us in cushy, highly-paid, stress-free jobs in commerce and industry!

Any worthwhile job has its good and bad points but, sadly, teachers seem only to accentuate the bad points, and in so doing they alienate people in other lines of work who put in just as many hours (not sitting in a comfy chair at home, but in the office or on the shop-floor), suffer just as much stress and abuse (from fellow-workers, superiors and customers alike), and manage on just as little money.

Perhaps there's a serious misconception amongst teachers of the kind of salary-levels that middle- and upper-management in industry and commerce can earn? We're not all on stockbroker salaries! And some of us claim benefits too - it's not just teachers who can't manage on their salary.

I've done part-time work in education and I know teaching's not a doddle, but then few worthwhile occupations are. We all have our crosses to bear guys and, trust me, they can be equally heavy whatever your chosen career.

Hail Sooz - a beacon of truth and reason in a thread full of bias and self-interest!

Johnny


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Ozzy
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:14 AM

School? Did I go?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM

Daylia-

?

...spending a little of my own time ... on behalf of ...the children in my community ...is a wise investment.

Agreed, absolutely. Where did I say otherwise?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Dead Horse
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:42 AM

Sign on bumper of car (presumably driven by a teacher)
IF YOU CAN READ THIS
THANK A TEACHER


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:26 AM

Strollin" Johnny...you make some good points, but you also make some inaccurate assumptions one of which is that most teachers have spent all of their lives at schools. Recent surveys indicate that more than eighty per cent of teachers worked at other things before goinf into teaching. These were not summer jobs but careers. Also, I do think that teachers do moan rather a lot, but not out of bias or self interest in most cases. I know of no other group who take such public abuse> I have never been at a social event where other professionals were openly scorned in such a rude way. No one seem to feel that it socially acceptable to berate chartered accountants or plimbers...why us ? I think that is why so many teachers burn out, they can do the teaching, they are just tired of being villified for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM

I'm curious what people say when they meet teachers and insult them. Anyone?

We have been ridiculously lucky with our teachers. I have often been annoyed by office staff, though, and was very embarrassed once when a complaint I made was thrown back at the teachers, as though it was their fault. Whenever you go into an office, you seem to be interrupting a stupid conversation, and nobody knows anything about anything--it's all for the teachers to handle. What about support?

   My one complaint would be with some of the computer tech people who seem to be acting as teachers now, without having much background or notion of it. But I think they can improve with a little feedback and interaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM

I can tell you some of the things that have been said to me at social events where I have been accosted by total strangers..

My name is..
What is yours
I am a lawyer
What do you do
I am a teacher..
Wow lucky you, four hour days,loads of time of, no work but watch kids write stuff down. OR you ought to be ashamed to admit being a teacher, useless bunch, taught me nothin, taught my kids nothin.
OR are teachers as bad as they evr were..I don't think there is any such thing as a good teacher. OR As I a taxpayer I feel I have the right to tell you that you are useless and overpaid....it goes on and on and, people think is acceptable behaviour. No wonder teachers moan a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: NH Dave
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:22 AM

Don't blame the teachers because Johnny or Jeannie are fat; blame the school system that allows soft drink and snack machines in the school for the kids to use. Blame the Lunch Lady who orders out pizzas and fries from one of the fast food shops because the kids will eat them as opposed to healthy meals and there is little left over so it looks as if you are using your resources wisely.

The school in which I substitute has a cafeteria style setup and many kids go through the fast food line and only order french fries/chips with ketchup over them. Thank goodness ketchup has been deemed a vegetable, because now they get two veggies instead of just the one.

Then there's Butterball Billy who resembles a rotund exercise ball because no one has taught him to make better choices at meal time, both at home and at school. I suspect he is also a latch key kid who loads up on junk food when he gets home because it is available to him and his parents want to avoid the stress of trying to get him eating sensibly.

Or Jampot Jenny, whose parents are larger carbon copies of her when you meet them at parent teacher nights. Her mother feeds the whole family as if they are racing for a heart attack, and there was a benefit to being obese.

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM

There IS a potential benefit to being obese: with any luck they'll die before they breed.

There's something to be said for 'Stop protecting people from themselves and give natural selection a chance'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM

James, some good points there but I'd be astonished if your 80% quote was true of the UK. I personally have known a fair number of teachers during my 57 years, of whom only a very few went into teaching as a second career - they mostly went the Sixth-Form/TTC or Uni/Teacher route. Not calling you a liar, just saying that 80% doesn't hold up against my experience - maybe I got a weird sample!

Also my point's not a criticism of teachers - simply my opinion, gained over a great many years, as to why many (but not all) teachers have a distorted view of the difficulties of their job and their monetary worth when compared with middle-managers in industry and commerce. Incidentally, I know a number of teachers who agree with my point.

I don't subscribe to the 'All teachers are moaning wasters' point of view that quite a few people have put forward here, but neither do I agree that the rigours of their job and inadequacy of their financial rewards are any worse than those of their non-teaching counterparts (which is what I thought I'd said in my previous post!). And regarding the hoary old chestnut of the 12 weeks holiday - a number of teacher friends/acquaintances of mine have expressed a view that I can cheerfully go along with, which is that it's very nice and helps to compensate for some of the less enjoyable parts of the job. Just wish I got 12 weeks instead of the measly 4 that I make do with.

And finally, I'm an accountant, bald and overweight and I constantly take stick, sometimes very personal and abusive, for all three. But I don't moan about it. :0)

Johnny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sooz
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM

Well - just a little bit maybe!
I'd just like to put a word in for the teaching assistants who share the less pleasant parts of my daily grind for a third of the pay....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 01:00 PM

Me too Sooz couldn't manage without them!
I agree with Strollin Johnny that most teachers in the UK enter the profession straight from university although I didn't - I started as an insurance broker and only went into teaching in my thirties. What is more and more common now is teachers leaving the profession often as a result of ill health caused by stress!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM

God there is some crap on this page! Firstly, teachers are NOT paid for holidays-see HMSO; "The teachers pay and conditions act". Teachers are paid a salary for being in school for 195 days, and working 1265 hours directed time! Everything else that adds to the teachers hours comes under the heading of"and any requirements of the head teacher to ensure the smooth and efficient running of the school". This means working up to 50-60hours a week(unpaid).Since I spend almost 6 hours EVERY Sunday, and at least 2 hours in the evening on a Monday, Tuesday and Weds or Thurs after I get home plus my normal day of in school for 08.00, break duty(So NO tea break) 45 minutes lunch (hour) and most often don't get home before 17.00hrs( no traffic jams-I live 5 mins away from school), later when there is a staff meeting. I work the 50-60 hours a week,that most people don't see.

Apart from the tasks outlined by others in the thread, my unpaid holidays are spent, planning,thinking of new and different approaches, working out new strategies for difficult pupils etc.

We are inspected, monitored, performance reviewed. Given subject leadership responsibilty without extra pay.

We are abused by pupils, attacked verbally and physically. Some teachers are spat at,we clean arses, wipe noses,feed and often clothe kids. We buy stuff that will help our kids without getting the money back.And then we get told it's our fault-It's the parents fault! They have had their kids since birth, they have been responsible for their "social development" or great lack of it.We have kids carrying knives, we have kids taking drugs,we have bullying and extortion in our schools. Don't blame us, look at yourselves, you are the parents! We are expected to cure the social ills in 5 hours a day for 190 days (kids get an extra 5 days holiday)I love my job, ask anyone that knows me, but I write a paperback book every weekend planning lessons etc. My kids are sick of it, my wife is sick of it.

I teach in a special school, I teach children who steal cars, burgle, rob. I've taught murderers, rapists, buggerers and thieves, drug addicts and prostitutes. All you lot who sit out there in judgement of me can stuff it from whence your children came. As for the rest of you who are teachers, take no notice, they don't know what they are talking about, they arn't capable of the challege,most would run a mile if they had our work to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM

Geez Louise. I could not be more happy with my kid's teachers. Their dedication and abilities leave me with two options. Wonder if they are somehow mentally unbalanced, or admit to myself I'm a practically useless person by comparison.
   But anyone can get tired of repeating obviously true platitudes about how important teachers are and children are the future and we are the world. I hope people mostly are just teasing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: bet
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 09:46 AM

As I prepare to step out of my choosen career of 40 years, yes I am retiring, only to go find some other way to suppliment my retirement pay, I can only say I am proud to be a teacher. I have had good days and bad, good parents, bad parents, good administration and bad. Somtimes I have asked myself what have I gotten into but then there are the children and if I can make some mark on them then I'll deal with the rest. I can forget the bad and remember that I am a good teacher and have done my job well regardless of the extras piled on.   I choose being a parent and I choose to be a teacher. The sad thing is that I don't think either profession knows truely what they are getting into when they choose it. We just do the best we can at that time.

A friend gave me a poster at Christmas,
   A painter paints pictures on canvas. Musicians paint their pictures on silence. Leopold Stokowski

bet


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: *daylia*
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM

Well, in spite of all the complaining about teachers and their unions, holidays and wages, school boards with their cushy buildings/offices and bloated administration costs/salaries, impossible-to-meet curriculum requirments, the drastic drop in educational standards that leave today's university professors with no choice but to teach what used to be Grade 6 grammar and spelling etc etc etc .... I am grateful for at least one of the changes I've witnessed since I was in school in the 60's and 70's.

At least today's schoolchildren are no longer subject to either enduring or witnessing public physical or psychological abuse at the hands of teachers and principals. One of my earliest memories is being herded out into the school hallway and forced to watch angry teachers line the children up against the wall and beat on them till they finally broke down and cried.

I'm very grateful my own children received more humane treatment.

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM

Sorry, but I didn't like at all this piece of propaganda from the religious right. We have similar propaganda in Germany with similar content and all of them end with the same twist:

BUT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PRAY or
BUT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HANG A CROSS AT THE WALL or whatever.

All what has been written before has been written with an eye to that punchline. That is what the writer had in mind from the very onset. All the build-up of the picture of the good teacher doing all she can for her pupils is only there for you to swallow the false conclusion:

If all that is expected by a teacher, how can you object to a bit of prayer?

Fred Miller above has given the only correct response to that twisted 'logic'. Public prayer of one particular denomination does not belong into a class room. Imagine the last line would be 'NOT TO BOW MY HEAD TOWARDS MEKKA' or whatever. You wouldn't swallow it.

The way most of you have interpreted this thread, complaining about teachers work load (or not) I could hardly agree more. Too many conflicting expectations make their work life often quite difficult. I don't envy them for theri jobs.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:36 AM

Eric - it sounds Godawful. Get out NOW and join us Easylives in business:-

Arrive in the office about 9.30, read the newspaper till half-hour coffee break 10 - 10.30, e-mail friends and acquaintances for an hour or so then two or three-hour lunch (on expenses of course!), back in the office for a couple of hours pinching the secretary's arse and drinking Earl Grey, leave about 4.30, exhausted from the day's labours, home by 5.00, on the golf course by 5.30 and not a thought of what we laughingly refer to a 'work' until 9.30 next morning. Weekends? Saturday - more golf, or a trip to Oxford Street looking for ways of boosting the share prices of the major luxury goods retailers by spending some of the vast fortune heaped on me each month by my bounteous employer. Sunday - on the internet playing the stock-market to boost my already-embarrassingly-huge bank account. Holidays? We-e-e-ell, life's one long holiday really, but the annual month in the Seychelles, the January ski-ing week and the July grouse-shooting and salmon-fishing break help to keep life bearable. And when time permits, usually a couple of weekends a month, the wife and I do a quick channel-hop in the Beneteau to replenish our wine-cellar.

NOT!! The Truth - up at 6.00 and in the office by 8.00 am, work straight through until 6 or 6.30 (no coffee/lunch/fag breaks), driven by the harshest task-master of all - PROFIT, attempting to manage staff whose sole ambition is to reduce me to a gibbering wreck by their sloth and idleness, abused by customers, suppliers, superiors and colleagues alike, home about 6.45 - 7.00 pm, eat while signing cheques/reading report/checking accounts or whatever other joy I've brought home with me, remain at kitchen table to complete tasks while wife watches telly alone, if football's on Sky, try to catch the 2nd half, collapse into bed around 10 pm, wake up around 2 am and get up for a couple of hours to think about what went wrong yesterday and how to put it right tomorrow, back to bed around 4.00. Up at 6.00 and on the treadmill again. Weekends? Saturday - up at 6.00, in the office by 8.00 am, work until noon or 1 pm, take wife to Kwik-Save late afternoon because the butcher's counter is reducing prices on stuff they haven't sold. Night-time, same routine as weeknights. Sunday - up at 6.00 (it's a bastard of a habit to break), log on to our office Network and answer e-mails that have landed since lunchtime. TAKE THE REST OF THE DAY OFF - Shameless layabout that I am! Holidays? Most years I'm persuaded by my employer to only take three of the four weeks my Employment Contract says I'm entitled to, and one of those three is usually taken up by some bloody conference he insists I go to. However, I do manage a week's camping in Scotland or the Lake District, so I shouldn't moan too much. Training? It's of the 'Accountant Train Thyself At Thine Own Cost' variety. And my salary, after five years of evening and weekend study whilst holding down a full-time job, followed by thirty-plus years taking responsibility for my own work and that of many others, is somewhat less than that of the average middle-school teacher (I almost said "Of my age, but most of them have taken their severance pay-off and are on pension or supply teaching for double-pay by the time they reach my time of life). AND I LOVE IT!

Sorry Eric, we can all play your game. As I said before, we all have crosses to bear and I reckon they all weigh about the same, irrespective of where we work or what we do. Stop moaning or do summat else. Your choice.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Bobjack
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:45 AM

Strollin J.
          I wish I had said all that! I work for a large civil engineering/construction firm, and I earn less now than I did 10years ago.Too late to change now though, and on a good day the adrenalin rush is fab!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Barry Finn
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 02:27 PM

Wages are set by the importance of the work one does & teaching is not considered a priority. When budget cuts come around the school systems suffer the deepest cuts & they're the ones that feel it first. This causes many of our best educators to leave the public sector for the private sector where the pay is better, their responsibilities more in line with being reasonable. This leaves behind the ones who are burned out, young teachers with little or no experience & cost half of those that are leaving. Ones that haven't got a clue as what to do & then there are those who should go back school so they can first learn about the subjects they're going to teach (they themselves must have been educated in the systems). Then there are those teachers that are naturals & those that just love to do what they're doing & do it well & wouldn't leave the field until they've been starved out of it. We get letters from teachers to principles that should be proof read before they're sent in part because they too have also been educated in a failing system. In our district the head of special ed was a gym teacher first & has no qualifications & are not certified at all to hold the position she holds, this happens all over. At 504 & IEP meetings when asked who is certified or has what kind of qualifications. Out of a round table of 6-12 you'd be hard pressed to find more than one (if one can even be found). Again this is the result of non-funding, budget cuts & administrations trying to keep themselves afloat. Older & more experienced staff is either paid better elsewhere or in one form or another pushed out to let in younger teachers that will work peanuts. Again leaving these teacher's that are fresh & green with no guidance, role model & or mentor to fend off the overwhelming expectations heaped on them. Then there's a government that knows squat about education telling them how they want the school systems & teachers to teach to the exams or insist or age inappropriate courses but yet they won't pay for any books that aren't at least out of use & date. My wife & a good part of her family are educators. Their summers are filled with preparing courses & curricula, going to workshops. Their evenings are spent grading work or some other job related activity. Their weekends seem to always involve or rotate around their work. Did someone say time off, when? Teacher's are like the wife who does more in a day than there husband could do in a week. They do all & more without knowing almost up until a new school yr starts if they're getting a new contract or getting laid off. No heads up to give them time to find work elsewhere because the hiring by that time has already been done & they've missed their one chance of having a summer life because, hey, what if my job's still there. This they do for an average wage well below that of a dog trainer. Which would seem say that trained dogs are more important than a child's education. So if you hear a whining educator hopefully it will remind you of a person who's holding the future of your child's well being & wither or not your child can succeed & be happy in life after education. Think of what they do when you piss & moan about the money they make for doing a job that's so easy or the time off they get to themselves or how they spend their lives on the front line fighting to give all they can give & more while the parents & students themselves & the rest of society abuses them. I 'spect we ain't learnt nothin bout nothin & at this rate we ain't gonna either.

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 04:06 PM

Thanks, Barry. That just about says it all.

I especially liked the part about the qualifications of resource people (learning assistance, etc.). I spent many years obtaining the training and experience for special ed. (including behavioural disorders, autism, etc.) When I realized I was paid the same as a classroom teacher, I made the switch to classroom. Its still a tough job but at least there is less emotional stress. Now I watch administration doing a lousy job of trying to pick-up the slack. Its downright fraudulent!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Penny S.
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM

Some time ago, The Guardian had a web page which compared IQ with salary/wages. It was interactive, so that readers could take an IQ test, and then see where on the accompanying graph they fell, while contributing to the data. The line graph showed a smooth curve from low pay on the left, matching less intellectual achievement, steepening to the right where the geniuses were the captains of industry. Except in one place, where there was a pronounced spike of IQ matching that of the highest paid, but at the level of pay of the top of the teaching salary scale. It was about halfway along the scale.

Penny


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 04:50 PM

"Sorry Eric, we can all play your game. As I said before, we all have crosses to bear and I reckon they all weigh about the same, irrespective of where we work or what we do. Stop moaning or do summat else. Your choice.". "Strollin' Johnny"

Sorry for your sad yuppie life, but you seem to love the ideas of profit first people last. Actually, had you bothered to read my post correctly, I wasn't moaning. I was telling it like it is. You stated your own particular case, and I could state the cases of other individuals whom I know that that have a much easier life in commerce. But what is it you love? The money, power, cut and thrust of business?

Secondly, if you can find a small part of my thread that indicates that I don't like my job, or wish to quit, then please point it out to me.

Thirdly, at what point in my posting did I say, that we were worse off than anyone else? Or that nobody was as badly treated or ill used as teachers?

Fourthly, Teachers who take early retirement have had their pensions cut by over 20% by this government.

Next, supply teaching pays less per day than established staff.If a teacher has a breakdown(ill health of any kind) pension, then that teacher is no longer allowed to be employed as a teacher, part time or on supply.It would be useful to stick to factual information.

Why then, if we are not badly off are there so many teaching vaccancies? Why then are the universities not bulging with applications for graduates to take their PGCE and to become teachers? Why is there such a shortage of head teachers?

Lastly, johnny, I wonder what kind of boss you are? Obviously full of compassion for those who work under you, and your cutomers whom you obviosly have the greatest respect for.I think you should seriously take a look at your life/work balance and consider your health.

By the way, I have also been a Lab technician,worked with reptiles and primates in a zoo, postman, factory machine operator,driver, removal man, pre-school playgroup leader, not just a teacher who know nothing else of life.

*daylia*, yes you are quite right, there have been massive improvements in the quality of teachers since the 60's and 70's, and children are much better treated as a whole.Though teachers are not treated the same way by many pupils.

Wolfgang, thanks for the support of teachers everywhere.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 07:40 PM

I have to add a story.

When I was in the professional development portion of my teacher's training, I met a man who was exploring the possibility of a career change. He was a lawyer. After a few months of trying, he informed me he was going back to law. He said as a lawyer he didn't have to be everything to everybody and he didn't want to be scrutinized every minute of the day by every member of the public. He suggested that I take the ALSAT as law school was much easier and at least I could have a private life.

I also want to add that every teacher brings to the profession their own unique set of experiences. I was told that it was a "calling" while at university. At the time I thought that was nonsense. I now realize that after working as a clerk, a manager, a deckhand, and a fisheries officer; lived in both rural and urban environments and travelled extensively; maybe it is a calling. Why else would anyone put up with so much criticism?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 10:28 PM

And then there's the new USA initiative on education:

Not a child left behind.............
................................not a teacher left standing!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:08 AM

Jeez, sister bet, I see what you mean; some of this is very depressing. Makes me almost wish I hadn't posted the original email. Your words have great impact, though and I am so proud of you. I know the schoolchildren and your fellow teachers are really going to miss you. Love the quote about music!

Wolfgang, I was uncomfortable about the last line, too, but wanted to present the piece in its entirety. It was there to make a point about all that a teacher does, in my opinion, and was not meant as a commentary about prayer in school. You know I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state.

Thanks to all of the teachers who've posted in this thread and to their supporters. The rest serve as an excellent illustration as to why teachers feel undervalued and burnt out.

We, as a society, entrust our children to them, yet what value do we put in that education? Something to think about. As noted above, the bumper sticker says, on the car of anyone who cares, "If you can read this, thank a teacher!"

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Amergin
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:54 AM

I had my life changed by a teacher...at my high school we had many very good caring teachers that the students felt they could talk to....my favourite was Mrs. Deady....she was a special ed teacher...she dealt with kids with various problems...study problems and whatnot...and with infuriating students like me who could get easily straight A's....but didn't apply themselves..well anyways...she is one of the main reasons I even made it through high school...she supported my writing (which at that time was not very good, but she supported me in it..which helped me to continue) by giving me an audience...and once in a while i would hand her a story to read she would share it with other teachers who complimented me on them as I sat in their class or walked by in the halls...I was one of the troubled kids...angry at the world...fighting constantly with my seriously depressed mother...fighting with my dad and sometimes coming to blows with him...I was the kid who was in the vice principals office almost once a week at least in my freshman year...constantly being kicked out of classesand through this all she supported me...she made a contract with the school that instead of me being suspended from the school, they would give me in-school suspension, so I would not earn zeroes for that day and I could do my homework...She told me that instead of erupting in class at students or at the teachers to ask to leave and go talk to her...and I could...there were two back rooms...and I could drag her back there to talk practically anytime...and I would...

Her and I would also make deals with each other...if I got so many A's on my report card she would do something for me...once it was a movie in class..or a lunch at a Thai Restaurant...

So with her encouragement I graduated from high school...and for several years I would be in contact with her...bringing things that I wrote and just talking about what was going on...but now I don't think she is there anymore, because of budget cuts...the government can find money to build weapons to kill people...or prisons to cage people...and to give themselves raises...but they cannot seem to cough up the money to keep the schools as good as they should be...it is a shame....

You, teachers, truly have my admiration...you have so much dedication to help those you teach...to expand their minds...and to make a difference in their lives...but you are rarely thanked for it...So I thank you all, from the very bottom of my heart, for your hardwork, your dedication, your caring, and your knowledge, thank you from some one who had a teacher who made a difference in his life.

nathan


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 01:21 AM

There was a year when I kept track of my hours. I included teaching time, extra-curricular, planning, marking--basically, directly-related teacher stuff. I logged (to within a few hours) 2,247 hours. That did not include professional association time of approximately 210 hours. Do the math, GUEST (Jan 27/04, 9:30 am). That is, translate that to 40-hours weeks. However, I am not complaining. It is simply my way of telling you to have a nice day.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Metchosin
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:21 AM

On bumper stickers around here for awhile when teachers were advocating for a pay raise a few years back..........If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: freda underhill
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:55 AM

whe I was a kid, i had all sorts of teachers, including some fantastic teachers. i still remember them and know they had a huge effect on my life.

as a parent of three children (now adult) i saw many teachers and again had an opportunity to meet and appreciate some outstanding ones, including one who worked out that my young son was illiterate, and taught him to read. he told me that it was helping kids like this that made the job worthwhile for him.

my son is 24 and is now doing very well in his job. if he hadn't had that teacher, I wonder where he would be now?

teachers and nurses are, in my opinion, the two most valuable professions - because they have to work at the coal face with people with a range of needs, and because their work changes lives forever.

freda


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Bobjack
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 06:55 AM

Standby everyone I am transfering this thread over to The Grauniad home page where it belongs,   3......... 2.......... 1........ make it so number one!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 07:11 AM

Eric my friend - I too told it like it is.

I'm no yuppie (unless yuppies shop at KwikSave and spend their holidays in a tent in the rain in Scotland, and unless you and your teacher colleagues with whom my salary roughly equates can be classed as yuppies too). I say this because your English Comprehension skills are clearly lacking - you appear to have misinterpreted my first scenario as truth and my second scenario as fantasy. Sorry if ironic humour is beyond you, but it was a lighthearted attempt to get you to see that you're not alone - lots of people in other occupations suffer strenuous demands that are placed on them by the job but they don't expect to be treated as 'special cases' all the time.

Nowhere in my post did I say that any of the stuff in your post wasn't true - merely that you're not the only ones whose occupation involves long working hours, a great deal of stress and financial rewards that, at best, can only be described as modest. I'm sympathetic towards virtually all of what you said in your earlier posting, and I've experienced much of it personally, having been a youth worker for eleven years (sorry, forgot to mention that I did part-time youth work at a centre on a school campus a couple of evenings a week when my kids were young, because my accountants salary wouldn't stretch to feeding and clothing them) and I too have worked with drug-addicts, thieves, abused children (and their abusers) and scrotes of all descriptions. You just missed the point.

Neither did I insult or abuse you personally. I was simply stating the case that the grass on the other side isn't always quite as green as some seem to think it is. Us non-teachers have grouses too.

I don't have a sad life - I'm happy in my work (demanding though it is), I have a lovely wife and I appreciate the good things (yes, there are some!) that life has sent my way. I'm not angry, I'm knackered but happy.

From your post, however, you're clearly full of anger at the injustices which you perceive as being heaped on you by virtue of your occupation, and if insulting me because I have the audacity to have a different point of view to you makes you feel better then Be My Guest. It's not my fault you feel that way, but maybe you need to ask a few questions of yourself?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 07:37 AM

comment from my teacher friend

The "Teachers' Day" sounds about right but a little understated.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 08:00 AM

If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.

Ah, but then ignorance serves the aims of those in power so well!

Grab a copy of Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto,
Gabriola Island, BC, 2nd ed. 2002.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: bet
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 09:42 AM

Barry, Thanks! bet


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dianavan
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 01:33 PM

Greg F.

You are so right! Being functionally literate means that you are a good little consumer. Being critically literate means you are capable of seeing through propaganda (an oversimplification).

Teachers are kept so busy trying to keep up with the changes in curriculum, the demands of the parents, the directives from administration and the social/emotional needs of the students that you are lucky if you can teach your students to be functionally literate let alone develop in them a critical consciousness.

And now the publishers have coined the phrase, "literacy", to boost their sales and everyone is buying into it as well as their data that is so skewed as to be laughable.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Peace
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:52 PM

Of course, one of the great lies we all live with is that of literacy rate. It is determined by counting the number of newspapers that are sold per capita. That's why almanacs are always putting Great Britain, USA, Canada, etc., (no offence) at 98 or 99%. That figure is bulls#it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: *daylia*
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 06:10 PM

Just received this via private eMail (from the lovely and talented and occasional visitor to Mudcat and veteran first grade teacher.... jives herself!) Couldn't resist posting it here somehow ...

Enjoy!    daylia



"Implements of Math Instruction



At New York's Kennedy airport today, an individual later discovered to be a public school teacher was arrested trying to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a setsquare, a slide rule, and a calculator.

At a morning press conference, Attorney general John Ashcroft said he believes the man is a member of the notorious al-gebra movement. He is being charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction. "Al-gebra is a fearsome cult," Ashcroft said. "They desire average solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in a search of absolute value. They use secret code names like "x" and "y" and refer to themselves as "unknowns", but we have determined they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. "As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, there are 3 sides to every triangle," Ashcroft declared.

When asked to comment on the arrest, President Bush said, "If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, He would have given us more fingers and toes. "I am gratified that our government has given us a sine that it is intent on protracting us from these math-dogs who are willing to disintegrate us with calculus disregard. Murky statisticians love to inflict plane on every sphere of influence," the President said, adding: "Under the circumferences, we must differentiate their root, make our point, and draw the line." President Bush warned, "These weapons of math instruction have the potential to decimal everything in their math on a scalene never before seen unless we become exponents of a Higher Power and begin to factor-in random facts of vertex."



"Bush is a man lost in a mobius curve" jives





Jennifer Ives aka Jives
Performer/Presenter/Promoter
Live@Jives: http:// www.geocities.com/liveatjives
Orillia Folk Society


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 10:52 AM

Kat, thanks for the explanation. A tiny part of my world is in order once more.

I was a bit puzzled, for I neither thought you would overlook the last line nor thought you would appreciate it (the last line).

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 11:46 AM

You are most welcome, Wolfgang. Glad that tiny bit is alright, now.:-)

(I was trying to remember my high school German to reply to you. So I went to Babelfish. It told me "Sie sind willkommen" which I know is a literal of my English, but not what I remember from class and so formal!**bg**

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 11:55 AM

German for 'You're welcome' is 'bitte sehr' (which in another context would be 'please'), 'bitte schön' or 'gern gescheh'n' oder 'keine Ursache'.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:22 PM

Danke! See, I should have listened to myself; 'bitte schön' was what I remembered, but it didn't translate right in Babelfish.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 11:07 AM

Ich habe nichtwas zu wertswollen.




Or something like that.


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