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BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)

katlaughing 26 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM
Sandra in Sydney 27 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:23 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM
Bobjack 27 Jan 04 - 09:33 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:35 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:43 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 09:53 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 09:55 AM
GUEST,James 27 Jan 04 - 09:56 AM
Sam L 27 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM
Amos 27 Jan 04 - 10:36 AM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 11:15 AM
EBarnacle 27 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 12:11 PM
GUEST,James 27 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM
Mrs.Duck 27 Jan 04 - 01:22 PM
Greg F. 27 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM
Les in Chorlton 27 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM
Raptor 27 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM
freightdawg 27 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM
vectis 27 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM
*daylia* 27 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,JTT 27 Jan 04 - 07:55 PM
GUEST 27 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM
dianavan 27 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM
Sooz 28 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM
black walnut 28 Jan 04 - 07:46 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 28 Jan 04 - 07:56 AM
GUEST,Ozzy 28 Jan 04 - 08:14 AM
Greg F. 28 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM
Dead Horse 28 Jan 04 - 08:42 AM
GUEST,James 28 Jan 04 - 09:26 AM
Sam L 28 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM
GUEST 28 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM
NH Dave 28 Jan 04 - 10:22 AM
Greg F. 28 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM
GUEST,Strollin' Johnny 28 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM
Sooz 28 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM
Mrs.Duck 28 Jan 04 - 01:00 PM
Eric the Viking 28 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM
Sam L 28 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM
bet 29 Jan 04 - 09:46 AM
*daylia* 29 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM
Wolfgang 29 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM

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Subject: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM

"After being interviewed by the school administration,
the eager teaching prospect said,


"Let me see if I've got this right.


You want me to go into that room with all those kids,
and fill their every waking moment with a love for learning.


And I'm supposed to instill a sense of pride in their ethnicity,
modify their disruptive behavior, observe them for signs of abuse and even
censor their t-shirt messages and dress habits.


You want me to wage a war on drugs and sexually transmitted diseases, check
their backpacks for weapons of mass destruction, and raise their self
esteem.


You want me to teach them patriotism, good citizenship, sportsmanship, fair
play, how to register to vote,
how to balance a checkbook, and how to apply for a job.


I am to check their heads for lice, maintain a safe environment,
recognize signs of anti-social behavior, offer advice, write letters of
recommendation for student employment and scholarships, encourage respect
for the cultural diversity
of others, and oh, make sure that I give the girls in my class
fifty percent of my attention.


My contract requires me to work on my own time after school, evenings and
weekends grading papers. Also, I must spend my summer vacation, at my own
expense, working toward advance certification and a Masters degree.


And on my own time you want me to attend committee
and faculty meetings, PTA meetings, and participate in
staff development training. I am to be a paragon of virtue,
larger than life, such that my very presence will awe my
students into being obedient and respectful of authority.


You want me to incorporate technology into the learning
experience, monitor web sites, and relate personally with each student.
That includes deciding who might be potentially
dangerous and/or liable to commit a crime in school.


I am to make sure all students pass the mandatory state exams, even those
who don't come to school regularly or complete any of their assignments


Plus, I am to make sure that all of the students with handicaps
get an equal education regardless of the extent of their mental
or physical handicap.


And I am to communicate regularly with the parents by letter, telephone,
newsletter and report card.


All of this I am to do with just a piece of chalk, a computer,
a few books, a bulletin board, a big smile AND on a starting
salary that qualifies my family for food stamps!


You want me to do all of this and yet you expect me......



"- NOT TO PRAY -"

(This came to me by email. It seems a few people thought maybe I'd lost my belief in the separation of church and state, so, this is what I posted, later. I've added it here for a an earlier clarification of where I stand. Thanks.:-)

"I was uncomfortable about the last line, too, but wanted to present the piece in its entirety. It was there to make a point about all that a teacher does, in my opinion, and was not meant as a commentary about prayer in school. You know I am a strong believer in the separation of church and state."


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM

bloody brilliant! I'm sending it to a teacher I know.

There's not much different here on Oz.

sandra


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:23 AM

Here is a list of what we are blamed for......

Obesity, they drive them to MacDonalds, we don"t give them enough exercise.
Iliteracy...there is not a book in the house, kids attend less than half the time..we didn't do our job.

Lack of Sportsmanship..they beat each other and coaches up at Hocky Games....we don't teach them sportsmanship.

Teen Pregnancy..they don't know where the kids are at midnight...we didn't tell them about safe sex.


Bullying...Dad snacks Mum..we don't have a course on peaceful conflict resoloution.

Racism..they use reacial slurs regularly...We don't train them in ethnic sensitivity.

it goes on and on...teacher bashing is rampant and I am sick of it.

(they = parents) Who NEVER seem to be accountable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:28 AM

Brilliant!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:30 AM

At least you get twelve weeks holidays a year to recharge your batteries unlike the parents. Crouches down to avoid the "but we spend all our time marking work and lesson planning" barrage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Bobjack
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:33 AM

Three cheers for guest. Teaching? easy life!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:35 AM

So the poor parents don't get twelve weeks off..well, being a parent is not a job and it is not designed to have built in holidays. I have been teaching for many years and I don't get twelve weeks off.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:43 AM

We all saw what teachers had to deal with as pupils. I didn't choose it as a career. The people who did, and are now complaining about it should get out and find suitable employment. It is rather an easy degree option. The best teachers love their CHOSEN profession. The rest whine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM

The best teachers love their CHOSEN profession. The rest whine

But that doesn't mean that even the good teachers don't have valid complaints. They do.

and many of the parents who "don't get a vacation" don't have any healthy interaction with their kids in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:53 AM

Twelve weeks Paid? I think not!

Parents Should raise the kids! You made the choise to have a kid you don't get Hollidays! People don't get that if you have a kid you are responsible for 18 years!!!!!!!!

Its hard to raise kids today right?   THEN DON'T. Quit your whinning!

You get two yuppies decide to have a kid, cuz thier friends have them and its fashonable, than they both continue working cuz money and advancement mean more than the kid so they get a nanny or use daycare and wonder why the kid is on drugs and steeling cars at 13!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:55 AM

The average working parent gets 4 to 6 weeks paid leave per year. Not their choice. Sure they would all appreciate being given 12 weeks.In the real world that isn't viable.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 09:56 AM

I have posted here earlire as a guest..regarding twelve weeks vacation that as I teacher I don't and never have gotten. I just want to disassociate myself from those other guests.
   I love my work as a teacher and am very good at it but I feel that we do have legitimate complaints..among them;

Parents who abdicate all responsibility and then expect schools to pick up the slack. These Parents call us whiners.

School Boards who keep adding programs so that parents don't have to cope with many of the child's problems then do not provide the wherewithal to implement the program.

People who glibly say.."if you don"t like it get out". It is because we do like it and value it that we don't get out. If only we could just get on with teaching and send the armchair experts packing..we can only dream.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:04 AM

Maybe parents don't get a vacation but who drafted them?

   Unappreciative parents are idiots. But anyone can pray whenever and wherever they want, it's not an issue. Ostentatious social prayer is, and Jesus's opinion about that could not be more clear.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Amos
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:36 AM

..or less relevant. The last thing parents need is an icon to take responsibility for their errors for them. The only thing that makes a better parent is taking your own responsibility for your own damn 'sins', and facing up to your fellow human.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 11:15 AM

You can always tell a teacher. But you can't tell 'em much.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: EBarnacle
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM

Dear Guest1, among others things, I am a math teacher.

My Summers are taken up with taking courses for my second Master's Degree because I left my previous line of work for the opportunity to 'make a difference.'

My evenings are taken up with marking homework and writing and marking tests. The school I teach in came to me as a specialized school in the City of New York and asked me to join them. I took a cut in pay to do this.

My parents and my sister were/are also teachers, so I did not go into this with my eyes closed.

In other words, I teach because I am a teacher by nature. Now I have to get the coursework and paperwork finished to make it official. The list of issues in the first post are essentially unfunded mandates [Remember that phrase from the past decade? The Republicans made a big issue of them when they were out of office.] because there are not enough hours in the day and other people who will make the effort to to have them come true even without extra money. And you say we have no right to qvetch! HA!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:02 PM

Guest, What do you do for a living that you are 100% happy with?

It must be good to have a job that you don't "whine" about.

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:11 PM

Why do people feel they can bash teachers ? My husband and I no longer go to social gatherings. As soon as people know he is a teacher they proceed to heap abuse on him..perfect strangers feel that this is acceptable, teachers are fair game . Why is that ? It amazes me that such ignorance exists. As for not being able to tell teachers anything; that is such a childish, stupid type of generalizing that makes me see red. Grow up.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:59 PM

Guest; I know what you mean by being attacked at social gatherings. I do not attend many sociel events either, for just that reason. It is a sad state when people feel free to abuse you because you happen to be a dedicated teacher.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:22 PM

I am a teacher. I can't remember the last time I spent an evening without doing some sort of preparation or planning or recording. School holidays are often spent writing reports, development plans schemes of work etc. I have been sworn at, kicked, punched on many occasions but I have no way of changing the situation long term as regulations are geared towards pupils not staff. My salary is such that we still qualify for benefits. A teaching degree can never be regarded as an easy option. I actually enjoy the teaching but feel the level of administration and lack of support against unpleasant pupils and parents is making the profession one of the most stressful there is.
I am also a parent and did not have the option to stay at home much as I would have liked. My children are well adjusted well brought up articulate sociable beings.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:24 PM

The "poor parents" need a vacation from kids? Whine, whine. Tell dad to keep it in his pants.

There's no requirement to breed, much less dump the product in someone else's lap to raise & socialize.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:27 PM

Never boring though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Raptor
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM

Here's to you teachers!

I commend you!

You do good, important work!

Raptor


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 04:40 PM

Mmmmmmmmm Not another thread made by people bemoaning their profession. Guess the rest of us are grateful for having one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: freightdawg
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:39 PM

I am not a teacher, though I would love to be one. I have some education in my background and in my former life (before flying) I taught (mostly adults) in an area most would not consider me as being a "teacher." I have taught quite a number of people the joy of flying, all the way from a private certificate through commercial. As one post above stated it, teaching does seem to be in my bones. But I don't think I could ever teach in a public setting. Why? The original post said it best. Teachers are not teachers anymore. They are called on to be social engineers/cops.

Instead of exposing children to the wonders of science, the beauty of poetry, the power of mathematics, the mystery of music and the majesty of spoken language, we expect teachers to do everything that the family used to do. Granted, there are way too many families that failed, or were not equiped to do this job very well. But instead of strengthening families, we dumped the job on teachers. Now teachers have twice or three times the job that my teachers had, with absolutely no authority (even raising your voice is enough to get you disciplined or fired) and increasing risks.

Self-esteem, sexual ethics, respect for others, responsibility, honesty, etc., should all be taught in the home, not the school. They can, and should be, reinforced in school, to be sure. Label me as old fashioned, but school should be for readin', writin', and 'rithmatic. Leave the social engineering for the folks best suited for it - mother, father, brothers, sisters, grand parents, aunts, uncles and friends.

And let's praise the teachers for attempting to do the impossible, and for the most part, doing it very well. My hat is off to you.

an educated and very grateful for it,

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: vectis
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:52 PM

You forgot the last line Kat

ALL PIGS FUELED AND READY FOR TAKE OFF


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: *daylia*
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 07:10 PM

Greg, whether children are the product of what's in your pants or someone else's, and no matter who abdicates responsiblity to whom for their care, feeding and education, one thing's for sure. When you and I are old, frail and relatively "powerless", THOSE KIDS are going to be running the world.

Your world, and mine.

That prospect's enough to persuade me that spending a little of my own time and personal energy on behalf of the health, happiness and education of the children in my community ("mine" or not) is a wise investment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 07:55 PM

Teaching must be the most satisfying job in the world. I do some teaching - mostly of adults, some with kids - and it's an incredible, brilliant feeling when they start to take off. And there's no feeling in the world like it when they fly.

But the idea that teachers should be badly paid - well, where did that come from? Have teachers no unions? After all, they're in a pretty strong bargaining position! What are parents going to do with their kids if the teachers won't mind them?

As for parents who blame teachers - well, there are some times when they're right. Sometimes it's more valuable to open your heart and your ears rather than reacting to aggression with aggression.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:21 PM

Parents blaming teachers? Where?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 08:57 PM

I have taught K to adult. I'm glad to have meaningful employment. There's lots to dislike about the school system, especially when you just want to get on with the job teaching. However, its all worth it when you see the "lights go on" in someone's eyes and you hear them say, "I get it!"

That does not mean I enjoy being bashed. I also resent parents who are "not with the program" and expect me to parent their child. I often say to myself, "If I could just shut the door and teach..." How many bosses do you have? I have to answer to my students, their parents, the administration, the district, the province, the public and other teachers. Now thats stressful!

Just remember that school and education are two different things. I'm paid to do my job in a school system. We are all responsible for educating children. I cannot possibly be responsible for every societal ill whether it be poor parenting, poor diet, too much t.v. and internet or poverty.

My pet peeve? Parents who send their kids to school when they are sick! Who cares if the teacher or the other students get sick? Parents need to stay home to care for them or find alternate arrangements. I'm not a babysitter and I'm not a nurse!

Thats enough ranting and raving - I have to go count the money and see if I have enough for the field trip. If not, I'll probably top it up with my own money just like I have topped-up all my classroom supplies and books. And by the way - the field trip is a necessary part of their education. Have you ever tried to teach about community from a textbook?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sooz
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:15 AM

The original post is very clever and rooted in truth. However, people bash teachers because, as a profession we do tend to moan.
Setting myself up for abuse:
Mike and I started work 30 years ago with similar qualifications and at similar levels, he in industry and me as a teacher. Our responsibilty has kept in pace and but my salary has consistently been about 10% more than his.
I have twelve weeks holiday (of which I spend some time working) he has five weeks. He is expected to be on call twenty four hours a day -no extra pay but they generously provide him with a mobile phone and pay the bill!
I'm at home today because of the snow (our school is closed) he is at work.
Most of the time I love my job. The young men and women who take the trouble to thank me for the help I've given them so that they could achieve their ambitions just about makes up for the totally ungrateful behaviour of pupils and their parents who don't accept any resposibility for their own situations.
One moan though - I'd love to be able to go on holiday when it is cheap!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM

One morning I heard a parent being interviewed on the local Morning show. She was having a great go at teachers, they didn't teach her kids, they couldn't read or do math(both were Middle School), she called us lazy and overpaid...so on and so on. At the end of the clip her names was given and she was thanked for insight into public education. I recognized her name as that of parent of two children I am currently attempting to teach...neither child attends school regularly, both have been absent more that 50% of this school year, they never do homework, the parents never come to Parent teacher, the children have had social passes since third grade, they have severe behavourial problems and come from a very abusive environment.The media love people like her, they can assure a good bash at teachers without ever having to ask parents what role they play in the education of their own children. I love teaching but do I hate the politics of it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: black walnut
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:46 AM

Hey Kat - that was excellent. I just came across it. I teach early childhood music. My only moan (well, the only big moan) is the lack of benefits. No medical, dental, eye doctor, vacation pay....but the place I work is right down the road from the best fish and chips place in the city of Toronto - now there's a benefit!!!

~b.w.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 07:56 AM

Sooz, I'm maybe biased because I know who you (and your spouse) are and where you teach but, IMHO, you are a star in every sense of the word! Your posting is the most honest, least biased piece in this thread. And why? Because you can see both sides of the coin. Isn't it amazing how often a diatribe bewailing the gross unfairnesses heaped on teachers begins "My husband/wife and I are both teachers"? Clearly their only experience is of the academic life - basically they've never left school, so how can they know what life's like for those of us in cushy, highly-paid, stress-free jobs in commerce and industry!

Any worthwhile job has its good and bad points but, sadly, teachers seem only to accentuate the bad points, and in so doing they alienate people in other lines of work who put in just as many hours (not sitting in a comfy chair at home, but in the office or on the shop-floor), suffer just as much stress and abuse (from fellow-workers, superiors and customers alike), and manage on just as little money.

Perhaps there's a serious misconception amongst teachers of the kind of salary-levels that middle- and upper-management in industry and commerce can earn? We're not all on stockbroker salaries! And some of us claim benefits too - it's not just teachers who can't manage on their salary.

I've done part-time work in education and I know teaching's not a doddle, but then few worthwhile occupations are. We all have our crosses to bear guys and, trust me, they can be equally heavy whatever your chosen career.

Hail Sooz - a beacon of truth and reason in a thread full of bias and self-interest!

Johnny


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Ozzy
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:14 AM

School? Did I go?


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:15 AM

Daylia-

?

...spending a little of my own time ... on behalf of ...the children in my community ...is a wise investment.

Agreed, absolutely. Where did I say otherwise?

Best, Greg


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Dead Horse
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:42 AM

Sign on bumper of car (presumably driven by a teacher)
IF YOU CAN READ THIS
THANK A TEACHER


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:26 AM

Strollin" Johnny...you make some good points, but you also make some inaccurate assumptions one of which is that most teachers have spent all of their lives at schools. Recent surveys indicate that more than eighty per cent of teachers worked at other things before goinf into teaching. These were not summer jobs but careers. Also, I do think that teachers do moan rather a lot, but not out of bias or self interest in most cases. I know of no other group who take such public abuse> I have never been at a social event where other professionals were openly scorned in such a rude way. No one seem to feel that it socially acceptable to berate chartered accountants or plimbers...why us ? I think that is why so many teachers burn out, they can do the teaching, they are just tired of being villified for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 09:48 AM

I'm curious what people say when they meet teachers and insult them. Anyone?

We have been ridiculously lucky with our teachers. I have often been annoyed by office staff, though, and was very embarrassed once when a complaint I made was thrown back at the teachers, as though it was their fault. Whenever you go into an office, you seem to be interrupting a stupid conversation, and nobody knows anything about anything--it's all for the teachers to handle. What about support?

   My one complaint would be with some of the computer tech people who seem to be acting as teachers now, without having much background or notion of it. But I think they can improve with a little feedback and interaction.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:01 AM

I can tell you some of the things that have been said to me at social events where I have been accosted by total strangers..

My name is..
What is yours
I am a lawyer
What do you do
I am a teacher..
Wow lucky you, four hour days,loads of time of, no work but watch kids write stuff down. OR you ought to be ashamed to admit being a teacher, useless bunch, taught me nothin, taught my kids nothin.
OR are teachers as bad as they evr were..I don't think there is any such thing as a good teacher. OR As I a taxpayer I feel I have the right to tell you that you are useless and overpaid....it goes on and on and, people think is acceptable behaviour. No wonder teachers moan a bit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: NH Dave
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:22 AM

Don't blame the teachers because Johnny or Jeannie are fat; blame the school system that allows soft drink and snack machines in the school for the kids to use. Blame the Lunch Lady who orders out pizzas and fries from one of the fast food shops because the kids will eat them as opposed to healthy meals and there is little left over so it looks as if you are using your resources wisely.

The school in which I substitute has a cafeteria style setup and many kids go through the fast food line and only order french fries/chips with ketchup over them. Thank goodness ketchup has been deemed a vegetable, because now they get two veggies instead of just the one.

Then there's Butterball Billy who resembles a rotund exercise ball because no one has taught him to make better choices at meal time, both at home and at school. I suspect he is also a latch key kid who loads up on junk food when he gets home because it is available to him and his parents want to avoid the stress of trying to get him eating sensibly.

Or Jampot Jenny, whose parents are larger carbon copies of her when you meet them at parent teacher nights. Her mother feeds the whole family as if they are racing for a heart attack, and there was a benefit to being obese.

Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 10:57 AM

There IS a potential benefit to being obese: with any luck they'll die before they breed.

There's something to be said for 'Stop protecting people from themselves and give natural selection a chance'.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 12:09 PM

James, some good points there but I'd be astonished if your 80% quote was true of the UK. I personally have known a fair number of teachers during my 57 years, of whom only a very few went into teaching as a second career - they mostly went the Sixth-Form/TTC or Uni/Teacher route. Not calling you a liar, just saying that 80% doesn't hold up against my experience - maybe I got a weird sample!

Also my point's not a criticism of teachers - simply my opinion, gained over a great many years, as to why many (but not all) teachers have a distorted view of the difficulties of their job and their monetary worth when compared with middle-managers in industry and commerce. Incidentally, I know a number of teachers who agree with my point.

I don't subscribe to the 'All teachers are moaning wasters' point of view that quite a few people have put forward here, but neither do I agree that the rigours of their job and inadequacy of their financial rewards are any worse than those of their non-teaching counterparts (which is what I thought I'd said in my previous post!). And regarding the hoary old chestnut of the 12 weeks holiday - a number of teacher friends/acquaintances of mine have expressed a view that I can cheerfully go along with, which is that it's very nice and helps to compensate for some of the less enjoyable parts of the job. Just wish I got 12 weeks instead of the measly 4 that I make do with.

And finally, I'm an accountant, bald and overweight and I constantly take stick, sometimes very personal and abusive, for all three. But I don't moan about it. :0)

Johnny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sooz
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 12:36 PM

Well - just a little bit maybe!
I'd just like to put a word in for the teaching assistants who share the less pleasant parts of my daily grind for a third of the pay....


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 01:00 PM

Me too Sooz couldn't manage without them!
I agree with Strollin Johnny that most teachers in the UK enter the profession straight from university although I didn't - I started as an insurance broker and only went into teaching in my thirties. What is more and more common now is teachers leaving the profession often as a result of ill health caused by stress!


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 03:55 PM

God there is some crap on this page! Firstly, teachers are NOT paid for holidays-see HMSO; "The teachers pay and conditions act". Teachers are paid a salary for being in school for 195 days, and working 1265 hours directed time! Everything else that adds to the teachers hours comes under the heading of"and any requirements of the head teacher to ensure the smooth and efficient running of the school". This means working up to 50-60hours a week(unpaid).Since I spend almost 6 hours EVERY Sunday, and at least 2 hours in the evening on a Monday, Tuesday and Weds or Thurs after I get home plus my normal day of in school for 08.00, break duty(So NO tea break) 45 minutes lunch (hour) and most often don't get home before 17.00hrs( no traffic jams-I live 5 mins away from school), later when there is a staff meeting. I work the 50-60 hours a week,that most people don't see.

Apart from the tasks outlined by others in the thread, my unpaid holidays are spent, planning,thinking of new and different approaches, working out new strategies for difficult pupils etc.

We are inspected, monitored, performance reviewed. Given subject leadership responsibilty without extra pay.

We are abused by pupils, attacked verbally and physically. Some teachers are spat at,we clean arses, wipe noses,feed and often clothe kids. We buy stuff that will help our kids without getting the money back.And then we get told it's our fault-It's the parents fault! They have had their kids since birth, they have been responsible for their "social development" or great lack of it.We have kids carrying knives, we have kids taking drugs,we have bullying and extortion in our schools. Don't blame us, look at yourselves, you are the parents! We are expected to cure the social ills in 5 hours a day for 190 days (kids get an extra 5 days holiday)I love my job, ask anyone that knows me, but I write a paperback book every weekend planning lessons etc. My kids are sick of it, my wife is sick of it.

I teach in a special school, I teach children who steal cars, burgle, rob. I've taught murderers, rapists, buggerers and thieves, drug addicts and prostitutes. All you lot who sit out there in judgement of me can stuff it from whence your children came. As for the rest of you who are teachers, take no notice, they don't know what they are talking about, they arn't capable of the challege,most would run a mile if they had our work to do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Sam L
Date: 28 Jan 04 - 08:27 PM

Geez Louise. I could not be more happy with my kid's teachers. Their dedication and abilities leave me with two options. Wonder if they are somehow mentally unbalanced, or admit to myself I'm a practically useless person by comparison.
   But anyone can get tired of repeating obviously true platitudes about how important teachers are and children are the future and we are the world. I hope people mostly are just teasing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: bet
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 09:46 AM

As I prepare to step out of my choosen career of 40 years, yes I am retiring, only to go find some other way to suppliment my retirement pay, I can only say I am proud to be a teacher. I have had good days and bad, good parents, bad parents, good administration and bad. Somtimes I have asked myself what have I gotten into but then there are the children and if I can make some mark on them then I'll deal with the rest. I can forget the bad and remember that I am a good teacher and have done my job well regardless of the extras piled on.   I choose being a parent and I choose to be a teacher. The sad thing is that I don't think either profession knows truely what they are getting into when they choose it. We just do the best we can at that time.

A friend gave me a poster at Christmas,
   A painter paints pictures on canvas. Musicians paint their pictures on silence. Leopold Stokowski

bet


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: *daylia*
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:19 AM

Well, in spite of all the complaining about teachers and their unions, holidays and wages, school boards with their cushy buildings/offices and bloated administration costs/salaries, impossible-to-meet curriculum requirments, the drastic drop in educational standards that leave today's university professors with no choice but to teach what used to be Grade 6 grammar and spelling etc etc etc .... I am grateful for at least one of the changes I've witnessed since I was in school in the 60's and 70's.

At least today's schoolchildren are no longer subject to either enduring or witnessing public physical or psychological abuse at the hands of teachers and principals. One of my earliest memories is being herded out into the school hallway and forced to watch angry teachers line the children up against the wall and beat on them till they finally broke down and cried.

I'm very grateful my own children received more humane treatment.

daylia


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Subject: RE: BS: Ain't it the truth? ( for teachers)
From: Wolfgang
Date: 29 Jan 04 - 11:25 AM

Sorry, but I didn't like at all this piece of propaganda from the religious right. We have similar propaganda in Germany with similar content and all of them end with the same twist:

BUT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PRAY or
BUT WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HANG A CROSS AT THE WALL or whatever.

All what has been written before has been written with an eye to that punchline. That is what the writer had in mind from the very onset. All the build-up of the picture of the good teacher doing all she can for her pupils is only there for you to swallow the false conclusion:

If all that is expected by a teacher, how can you object to a bit of prayer?

Fred Miller above has given the only correct response to that twisted 'logic'. Public prayer of one particular denomination does not belong into a class room. Imagine the last line would be 'NOT TO BOW MY HEAD TOWARDS MEKKA' or whatever. You wouldn't swallow it.

The way most of you have interpreted this thread, complaining about teachers work load (or not) I could hardly agree more. Too many conflicting expectations make their work life often quite difficult. I don't envy them for theri jobs.

Wolfgang


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