Tech: Creating music files on a PC

Subject: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Fossil
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 10:39 AM

Yes, I know this was probably discussed about 200 years ago, but my search of the forum didn't turn up anything useful.

My situation is this - after years of diligently ignoring new developments in music technology, a situation has arisen whereby it would now be really convenient if I could record CD tracks (for personal use, I hasten to add) from my computer's CD-ROM drive and store them on the hard disk for later transfer to an MP3 player, as and when I get one...

Does anyone have any recommendations as to how to do this? I am prepared to buy any necessary software (but would prefer freeware, obviously).

I have rather elderly PC running Windows 98. It has an integral 12x CD-ROM drive.

Sorry if this sounds so basic - I feel a real idiot for having to ask people to waste time on this, but I know that you can always find a friend on the 'Cat!

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 10:46 AM

RealAudio does this. Free., but you have to put up with a bunch of annoying pop-ups.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Fossil
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 10:53 AM

Thanks Dick - After I first posted, I read the thread below on MP3 files and it made my head hurt...

I feel I may be getting a bit too old for all this nonsense. When I was but a lad, the skiffle group I played with made lots of recordings on my mate's mum's Grundig reel-to-reel tape recorder. We thought it sounded great (mono, of course). I wonder what happened to the tapes? Probably long since gone to landfill, I expect. Ah well...

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 12:10 PM

Just to clarify, you are looking to record tracks FROM a CD? The term they use for that is ripping. It isn't really recording per se, since the music files on the CD are already digital. It is just copying the digital information to the computer's hard drive, usually as a .WAV file (on the PC).

Then you'll want to convert the WAV into an .MP3 file for listening and to save hard disk space and RAM usage while listening. There are lots of programs to do this out there. A search on Google for "mp3 encoder free" should provide a few links to a download. One I used to use on my old Win95 PC was called MP3 Workshop. It was freeware and worked beautifully, allowing me to easily and quickly encode WAV files as MP3s, batching them in pretty much any bitrate I wanted, including VBR (variable bit rate, where the bitrate changed as per the needs of the music on the fly). The higher the bitrate, the less the compression and thus the more fidelity to the original. The tradeoff: higher bitrates mean larger files.

But for playing through PC speakers, a bitrate of 128 is probably high enough. I wouldn't go much lower, unless you were just dealing with a single speaking voice, like say an old speech or comedy bit. Also, a low bitrate MP3 migfht be useful for "sample" purposes on a website, if you wanted to provide a little example of your own music.

There is also ripping software out there and some software that will do it all. For ripping, I usually just used the Easy CD Creator program that came with my CD-RW drive. Worked fine. In that, you highlighted the track you wanted to rip, clicked on the convert button, gave it a filename and saved it to the hard drive as a WAV file.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 03:31 PM

go to this page http://www.pricelessware.org/2004/PL2004MULTIMEDIA.htm the first item will do what you want....

if you want something more, try dbPowerAmp

or even JetAudio which will do more than you can imagine, but is a MUCH bigger download...

the above are all free.

do NOT use RealAudio

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 04:03 PM

I too have an elderly (5 years old) and not very fancy PC running Windows 98, and I've had LOTS of trouble with wav files on it. I found all the software needed to rip CD tracks, convert to mp3, record directly through the mic input, upload from mini-disk and whatever. The problem is that my wav files end up with skips in the sound. Nothing I've tried (and I've wasted many, many, many hours trying) has solved this problem, including the recent waste of time downloading the upgrade to the sound card driver.

I guess what I'm really saying here is that the quality you end up with may not be adequate, because the old PC may not have enough speed or memory or whatever it takes to handle this kind of use effectively. Good luck!

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From:
Date: 30 Jan 04 - 04:05 PM

You can get pretty well ANY sound related program from

PC/Win Audio Programs

However, you mention your computer is on the elderly side. I would suggest you replace the computer/motherboard, to something running faster, as well as replacing the 12x CD-ROM with something faster, at least 40x.

As stated above, there are lots of programs for Ripping CD sound files and storing them onto a computer. Some of them will do it automatically (ie - in one pass), subject to you entering a filename for saving the file.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 01:46 AM

If you try to dive in and do it all, it's quite likely to give you a headache.

Since you indicated you have older equipment, and don't yet have an MP3 player, my suggestion would be that you concentrate on learning how to get the tracks you want off your source (CDs, tapes, vinyl, or whatever) and onto your machine. Save the good ones to your own CDs, for practice, if nothing else. (On most Win98 machines, you'll run out of hard drive space pretty quickly if you don't burn them to CD to make room for the next tracks.)

You'll then have the tracks you want sorted out and ready to go if/when you're ready to worry about converting to other formats.

By the time you're ready to move to MP3, or whatever's hot then, you'll be more familiar with your equipment, and you'll have a better idea of what new stuff you want for the next step.

Start simple. Learn to do one thing at a time. It will come to you.

Having a "very fast" CD burner is nice, but just because it says 70X on the faceplate doesn't mean your machine can run it at that speed. Win98 is not particularly generous with buffer space, and most Win98 machines don't have a fast Bus and large drives with lots of free room on them. Slow it down, and make sure that the "burn protection" buffer control is turned on, and you should be able to make good CDs with what you have.

Incidentally, it works on both ends. You can get skips in your wave file on the hard drive if you try to "fast copy" at too high a rate from a source CD to the HD, just like when you try to burn at too high a rate from HD to CD. While you're transfering at 1X, you'll have time to read the manuals.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Strupag
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 08:45 AM

I know I digressing slightly but is there any way (simple way that is)
to listen to a live internet radio stream and, while doing so, record it on to a wave file.

Andy

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: moocowpoo
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 11:23 AM

It doesn't have to be so complicated. I don't know what all the other cd rippers are like, I only use 'easy cd ripper'
just put in a cd, open easyripper, and tell it what kind of file you want it ripped as, for example mp3 , specify the sample rate(eg 128kbs as Cluin suggested,this sounds fine, enter the destination for the file and press 'start', all done!. it's all much less complicated than it sounds too. Once you download it you should see what I mean.
go to this page
here
and look for 'easy cd ripper', it tends to move around a bit but it will be somewhere on the page.   However!, if your computer is too slow, it probably wont work very well. good luck, and persevere! it's worth it! all this file compression and expansion, is a bit like playing an acccordian .moocowpoo

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: moocowpoo
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 11:30 AM

You can just rip cd straight to mp3, it's easier if that's the format you want anyway.
'Easy cd ripper' is 'easy'   here   it is.
it moves around the page a bit but just have a look, it'll be there!
hopefully your computer isn't too slow, persevere, you'll soon pick it up!, good luck.   moocowpoo.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: moocowpoo
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM

oopsy-daisy, I diddn't realise it worked the first time, the screen told me otherwise. Now you can read your preferred version. the one where the blue clicky actually worked could be the ticket, although you can read the other one as well, if you really want. moocowmoocowmoocowpoo.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Alex.S
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 02:54 PM

Any recent version of Windows comes with the program "Windows Media Player" which quickly and easily puts cds into MP3 format without popups or hassle.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 04:48 PM

Strupag..(Andy) JetAudio, mentioned above, will record streaming audio...as will something called StreamBox VCR and several others.

'Easy' is relative..it does require YOU knowing the limits of your computer regarding speed and storage space, etc...

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From:
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 07:00 PM

Strupag, The link I gave up above, has a link called Audio REcording.

Check out some of those. Some are able to record all the sounds, from whatever source, on the computer. One of them, I think it might be Total Recall, has the ability to turn on like a VCR to record something for a specific time and duration, so you can be out at the time of the broadcast. This is assuming you are online (ie highspeed/broadband) at all times.

One of the things I did, since my local radio is NOT on the internet, was to take the output of the FM radio and put it into the line-in of the soundcard.

It would tape the show for me, and I could be asleep or out at work, etc.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 08:42 PM

Many Thanks to Bill D and George.
Since Bill's reply I have downloaded JetAudio and found it quite strait foreward to record.
I'll have a try at Total Recall once I've downloaded it tonight.
Things are certainly getting easier and more usefull on the net.

Andy

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Strupag
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 08:45 PM

Hey I lost my cookie there!
Andy

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jan 04 - 08:50 PM

Things are certainly getting easier and more usefull on the net

Yep, the halcyon days have long gone

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 08:53 AM

This thread inspired me to try one more time to get Cool Edit to work on my computer to create wav files from mic input without skips. (I always burn cds at 4x, by the way, and have no problem with them, presuming I start with a good sound file).

No luck. Despite using lower sampling rates when recording, the wav file still had skips, thus precluding the possibility of adding tracks (which would then be out of synch).

I'm convinced the problem is my old, slow PC or something I've done to it over the past 5 years. Even the chime when Windows boots up is stuttered, as are the other wav sounds like mail getting delivered, etc. Any suggestions for a cure would be appreciated.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Bill D
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 11:18 AM

just a thought, Barbara...do you de-frag regularly? Those files need to be written in a clear, un-broken space....and memory parameters need to be good for clean reproduction of sound..(I have some odd stuttering now & then also, and I 'think' it may be for those reasons...I have some overdue maintanence to take care of)

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: GUEST,Cluin
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 01:59 PM

Barbara, do you make sure all other programs running in the background (including virus scanners, etc.) are shut off? I used CoolEdit on my old Win95 computer (Pentium chip 166MHz and 32 megs RAM) and it worked fine, if slowly. Did plenty of soundfile editing on it, including transferring old cassette indies to CD-R format.

Sometimes I would get pops from ripped tracks, but I could generally fix them in CoolEdit (or else re-rip the file if it was really bad). That software allowed you to "zoom" into the individual samples (there are over 44 thousand of them per second in a "CD Quality wav file) and drag them down in line with surrounding samples or else delete bad sections, usually with no ill effect to the music if the deleted selection is small enough. Playing around with that software teaches you a lot about digital music recording, to the point you can spot problems just by looking at the graphical representation of the wav file.

De-fragging is good too, As Bill D suggested. With my old computer, to avoid buffer underrruns and popping on the destination CD-R, I always saved the files to the computer first, in a special partition on my second hard drive, and de-fragged that partition before burning the new CD-R. I used no more than a 4x burning speed too. It always worked perfectly.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Feb 04 - 03:47 PM

I de-frag fairly regularly, and I've tried shutting down everything else when running Cool Edit. My Gateway has 64mb 100MHz ram. I also tried optimizing the buffers according to some help site I found somewhere. Also downloaded the latest sound driver for my Creative Soundblaster Audio PCI.

Bill, what do you mean by "memory parameters need to be good for clean reproduction of sound"? Some settings I can adjust? Cluin, I would love to be able to use Cool Edit to move cassettes and vinyl to cd. Can't use it for anything at the moment.

No one else I've talked to has had this problem.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: Bill D
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 12:00 AM

all I mean is that if the files were written in broken pieces, it could cause stutter as it chased them...but if you stay relatively cleaned up, that may not be the thing...but 64mb and 100MHz is not terribly 'robust'...I have 128mb and I have some problems. The demands made by music can get pretty heavy.

Subject: RE: Tech: Creating music files on a PC
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 03:15 AM

The 64MB RAM sounds like it might be the problem. Any input has to go into RAM before it can be written to a hard drive or other place. And the RAM has to be sufficient to contain the program that's running, and to keep recieving the "incoming," while it's swapping out the write to disk.

64MB was considered pretty good when Win95 was new, and a "fair but modest" amount of memory for Win98; but even if you're still with the same operating system you've probably added other programs that really need a little more. Quite likely, the music program you're using now, which has to be in RAM to run, is much larger than typical programs of "that era," so with "newer" programs you may need more memory to do the same things that older programs could handle more compactly.

If you can find it, both Win95 and Win98 have a "System Monitor" utility that you can open up to watch what percentage of memory is being used. That might tell you whether this is really your problem, if you watch it during a test recording.

Adding memory to most desktop machines is fairly simple, and usually not too expensive unless you go to very large amounts, assuming that you can get the right chips for your machine. If you don't have the original op manual, you can usually check with one of the memory chip websites to identify what you might need and whether it's available. Many laptops use(d) "special configuration" memory chips, so getting them for an older machine may or may not be feasible.

If you are still running Win95, it's probably not practical to go to more than around 128MB, and for Win98 around 256MB; although you could probably double either of those limits if it suits the chips you can get. (There were recommended maximums for those operating systems, but I'm relying on very old "memory.")

The problem with having more installed memory is that the machine has to use part of the memory to keep track of where the work is in the rest of the memory, and the "memory management task" starts to slow things down if you have too much installed. The memory management utilities in Win95 and Win98 were rather "primitive" by today's standards, but should handle any reasonable upgrade.

John