Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?

Subject: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:44 AM

Repeatedly, people bewail the lack of younger folkies. I thought that this article from yesterdays Sunday (Glasgow) Herald might be of interest.
Sunday herald article
I don't think that the Herald has a policy of keeping things available online indefinitely, so I'll take the liberty of quoting a few snippets, but won't post the whole article...

Folk is dead – at least according to A Mighty Wind, a spoof documentary about folk music from the makers of Spinal Tap. Glasgow's city-centre UGC cinema is just one multiplex showing the film, which depicts folk as no more than a musical and cultural sideshow peopled by beard-wearing protest singers in hand-knitted sandals.

How ironic, then, that across the road at the Royal Concert Hall is a community of musicians and punters with an altogether different take on traditional music. The Concert Hall is the epicentre of Glasgow's Celtic Connections festival and the world created there by festival director Colin Hynd couldn't be more different from the one portrayed in A Mighty Wind.

"Any concert you go to at Celtic Connect-ions, you have tons and tons of young people," he says. "We have 20,000 primary kids at over 10 different concerts in here. The auditorium is full, the kids are up screaming and step dancing. It's like a rock atmosphere, and it's young traditional musicians on the stage. For a lot of kids that is their first time at a live music event."........

Paddy Bort is the organiser of the Edinburgh Folk Club.......
"The tradition is a living tradition," says Bort. "It's not something that is artificially kept alive. It lives because young people do it, old people do it, and they do it in all walks of life, and they do it in all situations. From the Royal Concert Hall in Glasgow, in a cabaret bar style theatre, or in a pub. It's a carrying stream. It lives."

Tonight's attraction is slide guitarist Johnny Dickinson. A group of students sit in hushed reverence as he plays songs about unrequited love and tunes inspired by the Northumberland coastline. The sound of their drunken peers bawdily singing The Cheeky Girls filters through from next door. It is a jarring juxtaposition, but a telling one.

"The thing is with folk, you get really good craftsmanship," says Ari Ghosh, a 30 year-old young professional sitting near the stage. "That appeals to people regardless of what genre it's in, or what age you are. It's real people playing real music on real instruments. None of your Simon Cowell- produced pop nonsense." ..................
....
All these young folk playing, they are not going to go away, and they've got a look of thirst in their eyes.



Maybe there's life in the old dog yet. Or maybe it's not so much Old Shep still limping along, as Son of Shep?

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: vectis
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 12:50 PM

I have noticed a few young adults coming to folk clubs for the first time in the last two years or so. My club has a handful who come, one makes most sessions. Most are audience but a couple are new performers. I find a glimmer of hope for the future of traditional music and song from their enthusiasm. Maybe it won't slowly die out as us oldies die off.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:36 PM

Things seem to have reversed, the kids are dancing and the old farts are playing guitars these days.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 05:44 PM

Speaking as a young folkie myself, I think we're rather rare. But then, I'm farther south than my scottish counterparts. At my college (in Essex) it's hard to find anyone who's heard of Bob Dylan, let alone more traditional folk artists.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 06:34 PM

Shlio, you live in Essex and have yet to come across any fellow young folkies? The county is crawling with them! Let me first introduce you to Mawkin . This is a young ceilidh band from Moreton, closely involved in the running of the festival there and containing, moreover, a stepdancing champion (age 17) who is also a morris dancer. I'll tell him you may be getting in touch via the site.

This is but a beginning. Young people are playing traditional music to an extremely high standard everywhere, aided by weekend workshops and summer schools such as Folkworks, Shooting Roots and the Ethno Camp run by Mudcat's own Sam Pirt. They are the mainstay of the vibrant e-ceilidh network, of sessions and festivals.

You don't find too many of them in the 'folk clubs' though. Why? They have attempted to breach the very real barriers into these (on the whole) unwelcoming, cliquey timewarps held in dingy pub backrooms peopled by bearded or floating Laura Ashley-clad throwbacks who talk down to them, tell them to do it 'our' way or else piss off. So they do and I don't blame them.

Congratulation to Vectis for retaining 'a handful' of the species at his folk club. Please don't patronise them or tell them they cannot perform music in a way that's relevant to them, stripped of arcane language and 60s revival pretentiousness. In that way, you might just keep them.

Our heritage of tradtional music is priceless and deserves the utmost respect. The young players do this in a way that we of the first revival very often did not. Go on. admit it.   While it is imperative to respect the tradition, conventions can, and sometimes ought to be, broken. If it doesn't work, no harm is done and you try it again another way on another day.   As Martin Carthy famously said, you can only actually harm the music by not performing it at all.

We've had lengthy discussion before on Mudcat about the parlous state of the British folk clubs but it's worth repeating here how I have been truly ashamed when taking friends, whether ceilidh contacts or total newcomers, into clubs and seeing them disillusioned by the sheer awfulness of the experience.

These young people are beginnning to show you the way forward already, if you'd listen. If you won't, they'll overtake you anyway, And the future of our music is safe in their hands.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Alex.S
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:24 PM

Well, I am a high school student, but I love folk music! In fact, I recently founded the "Folk and Bluegrass club" and we've now got a full band. I think that many more people would like folk music if they didn't immediately associate it with "Peter Paul and Mary" or some other such rot.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Compton
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM

Being an extremely old fogie now, I went and saw the Demon Barber Roadshow...I am encouraged that the folk movement will still be here in 10 years time (Jim..but not as we know it!!) , ..Roll over C. Sharp and tell Bill Kimber the news!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 07:58 PM

I hesitate to jump back in so rapidly after such a long contribution but I really must second Compton's endorsement of the Demon Barber Roadshow. This is one of the most amazing young bands I have seen in a long time - consummate musicians and glorious dancers, instilled with a love and knowledge of the music in equal measure.

No-one who has witnessed those flaming, luminous rapper swords and the driving rhythm of Katy Cruel could fail to recognise, as I said above, that here is the future of our music.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: John Routledge
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 08:02 PM

Having spent two weekends at Celtic Connections I found it wonderful to be much older than the majority of the audiences and much much older than the majority of the performers.

In my everyday folk life I feel posively young:0)

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: aibreán
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 08:49 PM

As a young folkie, I wish I could find other young *and* old ones! It seems in my city (Pittsburgh, PA) the demand for trad. folk is small and venues are scarce (or I haven't found the right ones). Maybe there's a secret method of finding folkies in America - in GB and Ireland they seem to be everywhere.

A.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Feb 04 - 08:57 PM

Maybe we can have another British Invasion?? Irish Invasion??

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 03:45 AM

Thanks for the advice, countess richard! I'll follow that up.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: fogie
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 04:25 AM

Compton -you might be an old fogey but I am Fogie so there!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:10 PM

When exactly does one offically transform from young into old, anyway?


A.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave the Mawkin
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM

(standing virtually up) Hi Everyone, my name is David and I've been a folkie for 10 years.
Folk Music is not dead,how can people say it is dead when I know loadsa young folkies, all you have to do is go to Towersey to see them, they may not be hardcore folkies, and totally embedded into the tradition but the important thing is they enjoy the music, play the music and dance to it.The shooting roots proves that, whats the point in having a youth workshop when supposedly they're aint any young folkies?!
Folk music is alive and well, people just dont look hard enough,theyre too distracted by the beards!

And people, I live in Essex, so 3 cheers for Essex folkies?!

ip ip!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 01:52 PM

The key thing about live folk music is that it is local, as it always has been, though local means something different from what it used to. If there's no young people involved where you are, that just means that where you are there are no young people involved. The same way, if, where you are, the place is crawling with young enthusiasts, that doesn't mean there's a folk revival all over.

Festivals in my experience are also relatively local for the most part. But I don't think I have ever yet been to a festival where, in fact, there wasn't a whole range of ages, with the proportion of young people in line with the proportion in the population generally, meaning a sizeable minority.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Rob
Date: 03 Feb 04 - 07:05 PM

Folk music going to die? HA! I am the only 20yr old banjo player I know of in a town of 150,000 in Texas (Abilene). For a year after I began to play, I saw no other banjo players at ALL. Then I ran into a weekly bluegrass jam, and I have met about six other banjoist (most all older then me)... and that doesn't mean there isn't more lurking around. Not to mention fiddle, guitar, doboro, dulcimer, bass and mandolin players playing traditional and bluegrass music. There is even, I have heard, a bagpipers group around. Who knows what other styles of folk music are lurking around town? Actually, we have started up an acoustic music association to find out and share. On the other hand I once had a fellow student ask me what my banjo was.

Folk music? "die"? HA!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: MikeofNorthumbria
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:27 AM

Call me a cockeyed optimist if you wish, but I truly believe that this thread, this forum, and the wider cybercommunity they flourish in, are the best guarantee that our kind of music will live long and prosper.

The web enables enthusiasts from Essex to Texas who feel isolated and ignored to link up with other enthusiasts, nearby or far-off, and swap songs, tunes and ideas over the ether. In the emerging cyber-community "global" is now just another form of "local", giving all of us a much wider choice of neighbours.

Wassail!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:49 AM

One word
IVFDF!!!!!!!
the InterVarsity Folk Dance Festival (27th-29th feb Exeter uni this year).
I'm a Dundee student (age 20) and I think this is the best young folk event around, most the participants are students and the whole thing takes place around the host university so you are surrounded by young people.
The four scottish universities with folk (well, Scottish country dance) groups tend to go in convoy and have a great time.
www.ivfdf.org has the information and at only £13 for students for the whole weekend it is great value!
My one gripe is that as a Dundee Celtic society comittee member I have to sit through a long comittee meeting to ensure no-one volenteers Dundee to host IVFDF 2006.

And Dave, were you at Towersy last year? I saw you busking over the summer in Chelmsford.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,cardboard cutout
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 11:58 AM

Don't worry,Crystal, it is common practice for IVFDF not to actually be organised by genuine current students!
I don't know whether it is as you claim the "best young folk event around" perhaps the clue is in the title (folk dance?). For folk song (in th UK, anyway), Towersey and Sidmouth are good. Or anything organised by Folkworks, for that matter

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 01:16 PM

Yeah I was at Towersey, my band had a gig there (well four) and I was also busking? Did you throw me a penny?

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM

Oh bugger, forgot to say my name.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dan Abnormal
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 04:32 AM

To be honest I'm reassured that its a mystery to some people where all the young folkies are. I'm glad these "mythical people" never set foot in folk clubs and I'm certainly glad the second poster said those that do try are "mostly audience".

Where you're going wrong is in expecting them to come. The folk clubs of this country are long past being vibrant and new and the enthusiastic young people who started them are now enthusiastic older people. Don't get me wrong, I think there are some superb clubs, but let young people start up their own clubs with their own rules. And when they do don't be surprised when you're not invited.

There is no shortage of young performers, its audience that seems to be the problem. And the truth is there are millions upon millions of young people who like this music but don't even know it - they think they're into 'alt-country' or 'new acoustic' or even 'acoustic emo-core'. And the reason they like these kinds of music but don't think they like folk is because they don't have a chance to hear good folk music because it only ever happens in folk clubs (which you're hardly going to accidentaly stumble into) and nice cosy jumper wairing Radio2.

Next step is to stop sifting all music into two piles - folk, and non-folk. And when that happens we can get folk onto the radio properly - not in a "folk programme" but in its own right. It'll happen trust me, we just need another year or so...

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Fibula Mattock
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 04:47 AM

Well, I suppose things are a bit different in Ireland where traditional music seems to be more accepted. Christy Moore mentioned during the Planxty gig that they were playing to a whole new - and a whole lot younger - audience.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 07:34 AM

I didn't see you at Towersy Dave! I did throw you a penny though! I WAS stewarding most mornings though, and being pulled around by a friend in the afternoons!

And as for the current students thing at IVFDF, well when they voulenteer two years in advance to host the festival most of the comittee are real students! It's just that when they actually hold the thing they arn't, the average uni course being 3 years.
Not wanting Dundee to host IVFDF is more of a cost thing, we can't get the sort of money that our university charges for the use of it's halls!
I'ment to say "best young folk dance event around" my typing isn't very good!
Towersy is probably the best for singing and playing that I know of, as I'm not a Sidmouth regular but it's rather poor on the dance side.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: fiddler
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 07:42 AM

Well as an old folkie my daughter - see I've gotta be old - is 18 and currentl.y debating as to Sidmouth for the FEstival or two weeks in New York and finding it a very hard decision.

Then there is Jackie Oates, Jim Morray, shooting Roots, and some other cracking good players

A
X

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:33 AM

"I'm not a Sidmouth regular but it's rather poor on the dance side"

er...you did got to Sidmouth, Devon, in England at the end of July/beginning of August?

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Snuffy
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:49 AM

Change the word order a bit, Countess, and I think this is what was meant:

"As I'm not a Sidmouth regular, Towersey is probably the best for singing and playing that I know of, but it's rather poor on the dance side"

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:56 AM

So did you go to Towersey in Oxfordshire, England at August Bank Holiday?
I did and I hardly stopped dancing....wherever were you? Not in the pub *all* the time?

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 03:18 PM

No I ment that the shooting roots events were poor for dancing! I'm being more dyslexic than normal through lack of sleep!
As to the dancing, well I was stewarding at the kids festival all my mornings so I never got to go to any of the good workshops, I WAS at the ceilidhs though! This is why I like IVFDF, I don't have to steward because the ticket is affordable!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Bill Ackerbauer
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:27 PM

I guess I'm a youngish Upstate New York folky. Younger than most people who enjoy the same music, anyway.

Smokin' Bill Ackerbauer

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: fiddler
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 04:09 AM

hmmm....

Can't agree with it all I shall be one of the oldest at IVFDF this year!

A

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Dave of Mawkin
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:20 AM

Shame you missed our performance Crystal, we did the concert on the monday and a few special guest open concerts,village hall and shooting roots stuff.So we were dotted around everywhere!
You probably would of seen us at the ceilidh though as I tend to wear rather ridiculously loud shirts.
As for the shooting roots dance thing, I think the dancing was designed to get people to dance for the first time, rather than teach any new ideas.I dunno, i just did tune swops!

What festivals are you going to this year?

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: kitchen piper
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:14 PM

Sorry to have joined this convo so late!
I'm a young-ish (well by folk standards) Folkie from Essex.
Didn't want to advertise, but seeing as we are asking, I'm with seriouskitchen or catch me at smallpiper.co.uk, we're playing in Colchester in just over a weeks time, so Shilo, you didn't say where you're college is, Colchester is definitely a very good club! They have young folies on all the time.
:-))
Vicki

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: kitchen piper
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:16 PM

Sorry, Shlio. and folkies! lol
I really must learn to type!
:-))
Vicki

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 02:29 PM

I have to agree with you Vix! theyre fantastic! superb! in fact Ive booked the best 2/3rds of them for Moreton Folk Festival! 11-13th of June!
Colchester Folk Club? I havent been there yet, must get down some time!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 05:07 PM

"Best two thirds oif them" - now that's a stirring sort of thing to say, Dave.

But you're right, they're bloody good. And another reason to put Moreton in the diary. (Though it doesn't need any extra reasons.)

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:04 AM

I'm definatly going to Towersy and Sidmouth (*note* post those forms today!) IVFDF; definatly, but I'm trying to stir up enthusisam from my society. SUSCDF; depends where it is/where I am! Moreton; not sure yet, yes if my exams are finished.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: D_Steveo
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:56 AM

It seems to me that folk music has always been conected to exreamly closely to community. The lack of new blood(audiances)perhaps stems from the break down of the close nit communities that where once common place, throughout the UK at least.

Get more good folkies playing in the pubs, thats what I say!

D

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 06:43 AM

Of Course when I said 'Best 2/3 rds of them, I didnt mean any disrespect to Nick, but in my own opinion, (and because im a guitarist) I cant keep my off jonnys chords and vicki's fast fingers, so I prefer to watch them two than Nick's delightful songs.

Come on guys go to Moreton!

With got The Old Swan Band too!

if you wanna know festival prices email me!
at

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 01:49 PM

CR

Vectis is Mary from Seaford folk club, deep in Copper family country, so it was an interesting post.

It's worth following the smallpiper* link - Vicki and Jonny came to Herga when we had Cloudstreet a couple of weeks ago, and did an ace floor spot.

Kitty

PS * these are Scottish smallpipes not Northumbrian ones

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 02:41 PM

Oops, can't think why I assumed vectis was male.   I've never been to the Seaford club so I am unaware whether the prevailing attitude to young people is sufficiently unpatronising - and thus mightily different from that prevailing in the vast majority of old fart clubs - to make them even want to go again.

In most cases, they'd be far better off following Dan Abnormal's advice and setting their own. And you really shouldn't blame them - though you probably will - if they make you as unwelcome as you have made them feel in yours. (Hope they'll still let me in though...)

Yeah, Serious Kitchen are fantastic, as are Mawkin. Right. I think we've established that traditional music played by young people is live and well in Essex.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 05:08 PM

Ok,ok, Ill stop moaning then that Essex is cultural wasteland.Damn it, I was enjoying having a rant about that!
I didnt know there were so many essex folkies, they must hide pretty well.

I have to agree with the Countess on Folk Clubs, the receptions and looks I get when I go to sessions and clubs is not helping the tradtion at all, however lets not generalise completely as there is always exceptions to the rule, The Essex Singers Club for example one night did 'Sickenly Talented Yoof Night' Which was fantastic, because it gave young people the opportunity to play as well as not feel embarassed to turn up.
As for Mawkin being in the same league as Serious Kitchen, I think we're still stuck in the Dr Martins and are heading for the play offs.

Come on Orient!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: fiddler
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 08:32 AM

This is all interesting stuff but I hate any form of discrimination be it age, sex, race and I always work on the principle that the folk scene is one of the least predjudiced places on this planet.

As for Essex well most people folk or not don't admit to being from there don't you just look out for the white ankle sox! *grin*

There is some brilliant new talent out there the problem is how to encourage it (does it need encouragement) without being patronising. I'll never (despite my large total in years) be as good as many of the new crowd.

A

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 08:45 AM

I'm with you all the way, Andy, on talent not (unfortunately) necessarily increasing with age but I fear your specs must be coloured with rather to much of the rose tint if you think the folk scene is one of the least prejudiced places on the planet.

Interestingly, It seems to me far less so amongst the young performers where I have yet to hear any of them publicly slagging off each other.. Musical collaboration, sharing and encouragement are part and parcel of their way of working - an example which many of the old farts would do well to emulate.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Dave of Mawkin
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 01:22 PM

Init! Wicked! Nice one geezer! Pukka Man!
Wheres me keys to my RS? White ankle sox, lager lager lager, loud, rude,crude,barrying it round town,no direction,no aspirations,no commitment, just pure obnoxious Essex!

And I was born there, I live there and it really is that bad.Well Harlow is anyway.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 01:37 PM

Thanks for the tip, kitchen piper!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 03:21 PM

Basildon and Thurrock are certainly that bad!
The North bits are quite nice though

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:24 PM

I think people often get better as they get older, in this type of music. There's a generation now which starts off from a far higher level of technique than their predecessors, and they are going to get better too.

Of course technique is only part of it, and not the most imnportant part maybe. But that's not saying it wouldn't be great to have it there to use as and when, as well as being aware of when to leave it on one side and keep things simple.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,John at Studio
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:58 PM

Dan Abnormal had it right.

Open Mic nights and jam sessions are packed with young people singing acoustic-based music, most of whom have never been near a folk club. The folk scene in the UK is wonderful and there is very little wrong with the music to be heard on it, but there are plenty of other sources of good quality, acoustic music with a message.

I'm about to start working again with a 19 year old acoustic guitarist and singer called Mark Roberts who cites Ralph McTell, John Renbourne et al as influences. Mark has never been to a folk club.

Julie Ellison, partner in life and record label, may not qualify as a young folkie anymore, but she illustrates that acoustic music is live and well as she tours a huge variety of venues - arts centres, folk clubs and - shock and horror - PUBS! We try not to build false barriers.

Rest assured, folk music is not restricted to folk clubs. Many people seem to be upset at that, but don't be. I understand that Jim Moray is making appearances on mainstream radio 2 programmes, Kate Rusby is on the radio 2 "A" playlist, and when did Kate last tour the folk clubs regularly?

Julie can play to an attentive, listening, smoke-free audience in a folk club one night and the very next night play to a packed, noisy, smoke filled bar. She gets re-booked in both venues and generates as many mailing list signs ups from both environments. Is one venue better or worse? From an audience point of view it depends on how you wish to "receive" your music. From a performers point of view, as long as you have the balls - so to speak - to play in front of the massed drinkers and have your music MAKE them listen, then both venues have a value.

The folk scene is fantastic. But let's not build barriers which do not exist. The clubs do not have exclusive rights to Folk/acoustic/roots* music (*delete to taste!).   If young people don't want to be associated with the club environment this does not mean that folk music will die.

And to finish what has turned out to be a rant - sorry ;-) - it is interesting to note that the most recent advertising flyer to land on my desk is from Emily Slade. If anyone can be described as a young folkie Emily can.   I was fascinated to note one thing about this leaflet - it doesn't have the word "folk" anywhere on it !

Now I must take a deep breath - and have a lie down ....

Best regards
John Robinson
http://www.JulieEllison.co.uk

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Bill Hahn//\\
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 06:03 PM

Well, Alex Statman---=who shares a name with a very fine musician (Andy Statman)---I never would have considered PP&M rot. It is people like that and The Weavers before them(and The Almanacs before that) that brought "folk" back into people's conscience. They made them interested in hearing some of the things that you espouse as "folk"--Bluegrass, et al.

Even then, people have to develop their own tastes and not denigrate artists that have, in fact, created an interest for knowledge about the "folk" music that you feel is so authentic.

In addition groups such as that brought "folk" music into a mainstream area where it was able ---as it was in olden times---to comment on political and topical issues.


Bill Hahn

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Elvispinkdress
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 06:14 PM

Hello everyone.

I am from down south and a folkie. I got into folk through my mum being a morris dancer. Very few, if any other folkies in my school, and my town is a bit isolated so I never got to go to any folk clubs. The morris dancers allowed us as a family to tour all over the place. I have been going to Towersey for the past 6 years and wewent to hungary for an international folk festival.

I am now doing the folk degree at Newcastle University. It's great and has folkies of all ages.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Gorgeous Gary
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:03 PM

Aibrean - This may sound a bit strange, but check out the Folklore Society of Greater Washington page. The "Links" section has a couple of Pennsylvania things listed (many in Philadelphia, but I did see a couple of Pittsburgh things). Also, if you can mosey on down to the FSGW Getaway this October, I know we get a bunch of Pennsylvanians including at least one couple from Pittsburgh.

-- Gary

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 09:08 PM

"...folk music is not restricted to folk clubs. Many people seem to be upset at that...

I haven't noticed much sign of people thinking that around the Mudcat, John at Studio. In fact I'd say pubs probably get more of a mention here than folk clubs.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: aibreán
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 04:40 PM

Gary -

Thanks for the link! I'll surely check it out, and it ought not be too much trouble to check out the Getaway.

A.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: GUEST,amanda in oz
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:31 PM

Wow, so great to find you all!!
I'm 21, and I'm Australian, and while there's not stacks of us folkies, I know of an awful lot my own age (approximatley, younger and older).
there are millions of us world wide. Just in Australia, there's Trouble in the Kitchen, Kate Bourke and Ruth Hazleton, The Beanies, Dalriada, Inish, etc...

Nobody seems to have mentioned Kate Rusby either?... or are we too good for the commercially successful? Growing up I met Alistair Hulett, Andy Irvine, Tony Mcmanus, Jez Lowe, Vin Garbutt... I listened to Anne Briggs and the Child Ballads. I was recently in Edinborough to discover I'd missed Rusby and Battlefeild band's John McCusker by a few days, Guys if one small aussie sheila can do it, so can you.

While our definitions of age have been challenged in this convo, our definitions of folk seem to be stuck on trad versus the new...

I'll admit, the young talent hides- you have to know where to find it. But seriously, what self respecting folkie gets up at 7am, logs on and debates the existence of young, party going folk musicians and their whereabouts? You're not in the wrong place, you're at the wrong time! you've gone to bed when they come out to drink guinness and diddle tunes.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: ranger1
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:36 PM

I think many young people are closet folkies. When you're in your teens, the peer pressure is pretty intense and a lot of kids don't want to seem uncool by openly liking folk or traditional music. I was always considered to be uncool anyway, so openly listening to folk was never an issue. Of course, having a couple of old Quebecois in the family who were musically inclined probably didn't hurt, either!

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: ranger1
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 06:37 PM

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Bobjack
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:59 AM

"Children should be seen but not heard" My Grandad, 1970.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 10:34 PM

I didn't get into ANY kind of folk until I was about 24-5. It took me a while. My first intro was people like Harry Chapin, Richie Havens, Arlo... it just seems to appeal to me more than anything else. I'm 30 now, and I'm a singer/songwriter myself. My style compasses different Celtic, Country, Blues and Trad. influences.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: biglappy
Date: 25 Oct 04 - 11:14 PM

I'm a little ashamed of being so parental but my folksinging daughter is 17 and has a roomful of folk song contest ribbons, a list of concerts as long as your arm, a grant from the Library of Congress and a new CD that people seem to like.

Our part of the country is full of young traditional musicians with absolutely incredible talent. The Bluegrass group, The Cana Ramblers has a lead guitarist that is 11 who also handles some of the vocals, and the lead singer is 15. The group is popular, plays all over and they are good.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: biglappy
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:22 AM

In fact, nnow that I think about it, the young folks are really like locusts. The are so good and so plentiful that they eat up all the prizes, all the gigs, all the awards. They are everywhere and there is no stopping them!


...Maybe I've gotten a little carried away.


There are a lot of good, young, traditional performers around here, though.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 12:29 AM

Around 16-17 is probably the best time to start playin'. This is when we start to acquire our musical taste, and are the most passionate about it.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: muppitz
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 03:33 AM

ranger 1, I totally agree with everything you say!
I'm 22 now (Do I still qualify as a young folkie??), but when I was growing up I was ridiculed for saying that I listened to folk music, and almost literally torn apart for saying I enjoyed it!
Nevertheless, I have been a regular festival goer since my time in the womb, I am an active contributer to singarounds, songwriter and singer's competitions and up until a month ago I ran my own folk club.
It can be done in the face of adversity!
However, at my local folk club there are only 2 who are considered 'regulars', who are under the age of 25.

But.....

Small question: Would there be any point in the Radio 2 young folk awards if there weren't any young folkies?

(However, I'm too old to even think about going for that now, so I suppose I'm not really a young folkie anymore!)

Muppitz x

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: RAT-W
Date: 26 Oct 04 - 08:57 AM

Of course there are young folkies at everything! I should know. I've been to plenty of places and there's always young folkies there (not including myself, of course).

The Rat.

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Dewey
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 03:08 AM

I usd to think I was a young folky, Now today I am 34 years old.

Today you are young!
Tomorrow: middle aged!
The day after tomorrow: Dead!

Just enjoy the music and the Company God gives you to be with reguardless of the age. Life is short, and you may find you spend as much time looking for the perfect age as time you have in the very life of your existance itself. Things go by faster than our plans concede.

Just enjoy your youth while you can!

Dewey

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Dewey
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 03:15 AM

Please forgive the un-solicited advice, its just that I was once your age looking for similiar teens my own age and had little luck, then somewhere along the way I became older.

I admire the position your in: that of being young. It's an exciting time to be a musician! I know it was for me.

Dewey

Subject: RE: Young Folkies - is THIS where they are?
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 27 Oct 04 - 03:53 AM

When will youth be over? In Germany nearly all political parties have youth organizations where membership ends with the 35th birthday. 20 years old I considered this a bloody old age ("never trust anybody over 30"), but now I think otherwise.
In my eyes a folkie is really old when all his instruments have gathered dust, and he doesn't sing anymore, even in the bathtub.
I have visited the last two Mudcat Eurogatherings, and was overwhelmed with glee seeing (and hearing) so many young participants, one more beautiful than the other. Er - the girls, naturally. Essex Girl included. Just take a glimpse at the pictures.
So let us not abandon any hope for the future.

P.S. Hi Kate! (Now they are guessing which one, haw haw!)