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BS: Oil will run out

Ed T 19 May 10 - 07:29 PM
Ed T 19 May 10 - 07:25 PM
gnu 19 May 10 - 06:48 PM
Ed T 19 May 10 - 05:39 PM
Amos 15 Jul 08 - 06:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 23 Mar 08 - 12:03 AM
Barry Finn 22 Mar 08 - 11:16 PM
GUEST,peak oil is a fraud 22 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM
pdq 21 Mar 07 - 10:04 PM
GUEST,TIA 21 Mar 07 - 09:42 PM
The Fooles Troupe 21 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM
pdq 21 Mar 07 - 06:11 PM
Bill D 21 Mar 07 - 03:53 PM
GUEST 21 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM
Teribus 21 Mar 07 - 02:35 PM
GUEST,Peak oil is a fraud 21 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM
dianavan 21 Mar 07 - 01:02 PM
saulgoldie 21 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM
Teribus 08 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM
freda underhill 08 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM
saulgoldie 08 May 06 - 05:30 PM
Bill D 10 Feb 06 - 05:56 PM
GUEST,petr 10 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM
robomatic 10 Feb 06 - 02:15 PM
Amos 10 Feb 06 - 12:47 PM
autolycus 10 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM
CarolC 09 Feb 06 - 01:53 PM
GUEST 09 Feb 06 - 12:41 PM
GUEST,Larry K 09 Feb 06 - 12:23 PM
Wolfgang 09 Feb 06 - 11:55 AM
Paco Rabanne 15 Apr 05 - 12:01 PM
Leadfingers 15 Apr 05 - 05:46 AM
Leadfingers 15 Apr 05 - 05:45 AM
GUEST,petrt 14 Apr 05 - 08:37 PM
GUEST,Larry K 14 Apr 05 - 04:39 PM
Donuel 13 Apr 05 - 04:33 PM
GUEST,mg 13 Apr 05 - 03:39 PM
Wolfgang 13 Apr 05 - 01:20 PM
Donuel 13 Apr 05 - 12:46 PM
GUEST,petr 13 Apr 05 - 12:33 PM
saulgoldie 12 Apr 05 - 09:52 PM
saulgoldie 04 Apr 05 - 09:21 AM
GUEST,TIA 17 Feb 05 - 03:10 PM
GUEST,Wolfgang 17 Feb 05 - 01:08 PM
GUEST,TIA 17 Feb 05 - 12:47 PM
GUEST,Wolfgang 17 Feb 05 - 05:49 AM
GUEST,TIA 16 Feb 05 - 04:40 PM
GUEST,Wolfgang 16 Feb 05 - 09:54 AM
GUEST,TIA 11 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM
CarolC 11 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Ed T
Date: 19 May 10 - 07:29 PM

Heeeeere's China:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12501039/


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Ed T
Date: 19 May 10 - 07:25 PM

What does China not actually own behind the scenes, including in the USA, since they hold a good portion of their huge debt?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: gnu
Date: 19 May 10 - 06:48 PM

Canada's? You mean China's oil supply in Canada, right? Because they are gonna own it soon enough.

And Pierre is spinning in his grave.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Ed T
Date: 19 May 10 - 05:39 PM

"Despite environmental and economic challenges, Canada's oilsands could account for more than one-third of U.S. oil supply within two decades, says a new report from U.S.-based Cambridge Energy Research Associates"

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Oilsands+could+supply+third+within+years+report/3046507/story.html#ixzz0oPitS8N8



http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Oilsands+could+supply+third+within+years+report/3046507/story.html


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Amos
Date: 15 Jul 08 - 06:07 PM

Subject: exporting oil

http://www.cnbc.com/id/25518912

As Oil Firms Seek Drilling Access, Exports Set Record

By Reuters | 03 Jul 2008 | 03:23 PM ET
Font size:

While the U.S. oil industry wants access to more federal lands to help
reduce reliance on foreign suppliers, U.S.-based companies are shipping
record amounts of gasoline and diesel fuel to other countries.


(Emphasis added)


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 23 Mar 08 - 12:03 AM

So that's where the dinosaurs went.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Barry Finn
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 11:16 PM

They also WMD's aimed at US, let's attack, now!

Barry


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,peak oil is a fraud
Date: 22 Mar 08 - 10:09 PM

"That said, data from the Cassini probe orbiting Saturn has shown that the ringed planet's moon has "hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth," according to research reported in the Geophysical Research Letters. The stuff is literally falling from the sky...."

http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2008/02/titans-organic.html

So, if oil is fossil fuel, this PROVES that dinosaurs existed on Titan.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: pdq
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 10:04 PM

Oil ain't renewable on a **human** timescale.

Consider that point granted. However, there is at least 100X as much oil as has been estimated by fossil fuel believers. Maybe 400X as much.

Coal is a fossil fuel. I used to have a piece that had fossilized ferns in it. Coal is almost 100% carbon and is not of the same origin as crude oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 09:42 PM

Oops, GUEST at Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM was me, saying that previous GUEST is full of a renewable animal byproduct.

Made it quite confusing.

Oil ain't renewable on a **human** timescale.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 08:00 PM

"not "decayed fossil fuel" at all; it's renewable"

Ah - well this abiotic stuff is supposed to come from large chunks of carbonaceous goop thrown out by stars decaying, that got caught up in the crust as the earth formed and is being slowly converted - the problem is that this IS a fixed amount - so it is NOT infinite... :-) Trying to claim so IS Bullshit!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: pdq
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 06:11 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Peak oil is a fraud - PM
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM

Peak oil is a fraud.

Over a hundred years ago a group of wealthy individuals and businesses began forcing the world economy onto oil and the internal combustion engine. Simple formula: control all oil reserves, limit the building of refineries, control oil exploration, and suppress rival technologies.

The first technology to be done away with was steam. The world should be running on water today, but it's not because of the efforts of the oil cartel. Other energy sources are suppressed just as ruthlessly.

The primary players in the oil market are the British and Dutch royal families (owners of British Petroleum and Shell), and a few conglomerate companies controlled by lesser families and banks.

                         {edited to size}

__________________________________________________________________________________________

Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM

Yup, Teribus, you are correct. And this is bullshit too:

"The world is swimming in newly-discovered oil, but it's not being publicized. Improved technologies are showing there's lots more oil than was ever suspected. **And it's being constantly replenished by forces within the earth (not "decayed fossil fuel" at all; it's renewable).**"

Emphasis mine.

__________________________________________________________________________________________

I copied GUEST's statements in case they get deleted. It looks kinda dumb responding to a post that no longer exists.

Actually, GUEST may be close to correct on all counts. The British royal family certainly has a large financial interest in British Petroleum.

Here is a statement (=quote) about Royal Dutch Shell and the royal family of the Netherlands:

"As Queen, Beatrix wields more power than most of Europe's reigning monarchs. In domestic matters, she has little political say; however, in international relations, the Queen has much more latitude. It was once reported that she threatened to dismiss a cabinet minister if he turned down her request to open a Dutch embassy in Jordan.

According to a 2005 Forbes Web Site report, the Queen's personal wealth is estimated at $4.7 billion. If this estimate is indeed accurate, it makes her one of the richest people in the world. It is also believed, however, that the Queen's assets are tied up in stakes in Royal Dutch Petroleum (now 60% of Royal Dutch Shell), among other companies.

She has been a long-time member of the Club of Rome and the Bilderberg group."          ~ Wiki


About the source production of oil, put "abiotic oil" into your search engine and check some of the results. It ain't just one man's opinion.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 03:53 PM

"... it's being constantly replenished by forces within the earth (not "decayed fossil fuel" at all; it's renewable)."


This is a *theory* developed and pushed by ONE MAN. I heard about it a couple years ago. As far as I know, NO serious geologists support his claim, and he has done almost nothing to prove it.....do you know something new? It certainly is not at a level to be made a flat statement.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:40 PM

Yup, Teribus, you are correct. And this is bullshit too:

"The world is swimming in newly-discovered oil, but it's not being publicized. Improved technologies are showing there's lots more oil than was ever suspected. **And it's being constantly replenished by forces within the earth (not "decayed fossil fuel" at all; it's renewable).**"

Emphasis mine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Teribus
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 02:35 PM

The primary players in the oil market are the British and Dutch royal families (owners of British Petroleum and Shell), now that's pure Bullshit.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Peak oil is a fraud
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:40 PM

Peak oil is a fraud.

Over a hundred years ago a group of wealthy individuals and businesses began forcing the world economy onto oil and the internal combustion engine. Simple formula: control all oil reserves, limit the building of refineries, control oil exploration, and suppress rival technologies.

The first technology to be done away with was steam. The world should be running on water today, but it's not because of the efforts of the oil cartel. Other energy sources are suppressed just as ruthlessly.

The primary players in the oil market are the British and Dutch royal families (owners of British Petroleum and Shell), and a few conglomerate companies controlled by lesser families and banks.

The world is swimming in newly-discovered oil, but it's not being publicized. Improved technologies are showing there's lots more oil than was ever suspected. And it's being constantly replenished by forces within the earth (not "decayed fossil fuel" at all; it's renewable).

In the 60's and 70's the oil monopoly realized it would need a myth firmly implanted in peoples' minds to get them to go along with increasing gas prices, so the "peak oil" scam was unveiled. Essentially, on a graph of available oil, the roller coaster is now going downhill.

Pure bullshit. Peak oil doesn't exist except in the media and government-subsidized universities. If newly discovered fields were tapped and an adequate supply-and-demand number of refineries were built, you'd be paying a dime a gallon for gasoline.

Or governments could promote steam power, which makes more sense.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 01:02 PM

Thats an excellent article, Saul. I hope people will read it and realize that they must start preparing for these changes in their lives.

Better public transportation in the cities is a start but I do wonder how people that live in rural areas will cope without public transport. Many are dependent on trucks and, in fact, trucks are an essential tool for many. I think living outside urban areas(unless you're a farmer) will be considered a luxury. Actually, I already think that way.

Its the people in the suburbs who will find themselves in big trouble without a car. Thats why developers are now thinking in terms of building up rather that creating more suburban sprawl. High density housing is the wave of the future. Any land that is still remaining, will have to be used for agriculture.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: saulgoldie
Date: 21 Mar 07 - 12:28 PM

This'll make you think...

http://ww.alternet.org/envirohealth/47705/


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Teribus
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 12:11 PM

Very old news freda.

Saddam Hussein signed PSA agreements with Russian and French companies in exchange for weapons prior to Desert Storm and between 1991 and 2003 . As to who has what in Iraq at present please refer to the following:

Oil Exploration and Development Contracts with the former Iraqi Regime and Foreign Companies (source: World Markets Research Centre):
West Qurna Phase 2 (Lukoil - Russian);
Majnoon (Total - French);
Bin Umar (Zarubezhneft - Russian);
Nasiriya (Eni - Italian, Repsol - Spanish);
Halfaya (BHP - Australian, South Korean consortium, CNPC - Chinese, Agip - Italian);
Ratawi (Shell - Netherlands);
Tuba (ONGC - Indian, Sonatrach - BVI);
Suba-Luhais (Slavneft - Russian); Gharaf (TPAO - Turkish, Japex - Japan);
Al-Ahdab (CNPC - Chinese);
Amara (PetroVietnam);
Western Desert (ONGC - Indian, Pertamina - Indonesia, Stroitransgaz - Russian, Tatneft - Russian)

Only one PSA has been signed since March 2003 and that was for a small developement (Tawke Field) in the Kurdish North of the country the agreement having been signed between the Kurdish regional government and a small independent Norwegian company, DNO ASA.   The company, which is the operator of the block and has a 40 pct stake, the production sharing agreement was signed with the Kurdish authorities in June 2004.

From your article freda:
"oil majors such as BP and Shell in Britain, and Exxon and Chevron in the US, would be able to sign deals of up to 30 years to extract Iraq's oil."

Shell is the only named "major" of the "evil" USA/UK alliance that appears to be named. Unfortunately the Shell in this case is Dutch (Shell always has been a Dutch Company) But no BP, No Exxon, No Chevron. What you do have are previous agreements made with the Ba'athist Government being honoured with predominantly Russian, French and Chinese oil companies. This should not be all that surprising as they represent the countries who supplied Saddam Hussein with most of his weapons (93.4%):

Russia - supplied 68.9% of all weapons and military equipment between the years 1973 and 1990
France - supplied 12.7% over the same period
China - supplied 11.8% over the same period

But no doubt the same old chestnut will be trotted out regarding this "War for Oil" Myth. Here are the figures illustrating where the USA imports its oil from, in reading these please try and remember there are some here who want you to believe that the US and UK invaded Iraq to steal their oil:

October 2006 Import Highlights: Released on December 27, 2006
Monthly data on the origins of crude oil imports in October 2006 has been released and it shows that two countries have each exported more than 1.4 million barrels per day to the United States. Including those countries, a total of five countries exported over 1.0 million barrels per day of crude oil to the United States (see table below).

The top five exporting countries accounted for 66 percent of United States crude oil imports in October while the top ten sources accounted for approximately 86 percent of all U.S. crude oil imports.

The top sources of US crude oil imports for October were:
Canada (1.704 million barrels per day),
Mexico (1.481 million barrels per day),
Saudi Arabia (1.322 million barrels per day),
Venezuela (1.125 million barrels per day),
Nigeria (1.049 million barrels per day),
Angola (0.506 million barrels per day),
Iraq (0.505 million barrels per day),
Algeria (0.449 million barrels per day),
Ecuador (0.315 million barrels per day),
Kuwait (0.234 million barrels per day).

Total crude oil imports averaged 10.132 million barrels per day in October, which is a decrease of 0.571 million barrels per day from September 2006.

Canada remained the largest exporter of total petroleum products in October, exporting 2.144 million barrels per day to the United States. The second largest exporter of total petroleum products was Mexico once again (1.646 million barrels per day) which was a slight increase from last month of 0.077 million barrels per day.

Now, I may be a simple sailor, but if they need 10.13 million barrels of oil a day, and they decided to invade a country to "steal" it's oil, I would have thought that they would have selected a country that would be able to supply them with more than 500,000 barrels per day, don't you? Oh, and of course they are not "stealing" it they are paying for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: freda underhill
Date: 08 Jan 07 - 09:14 AM

The Spoils of War - How the West will profit from Iraq's most precious commodity

So was this what the Iraq war was fought for, after all? As the number of US soldiers killed since the invasion rises past the 3,000 mark, and President George Bush gambles on sending in up to 30,000 more troops, The Independent on Sunday has learnt that the Iraqi government is about to push through a law giving Western oil companies the right to exploit the country's massive oil reserves.

And Iraq's oil reserves, the third largest in the world, with an estimated 115 billion barrels waiting to be extracted, are a prize worth having. As Vice-President Dick Cheney noted in 1999, when he was still running Halliburton, an oil services company, the Middle East is the key to preventing the world running out of oil.

Now, unnoticed by most amid the furore over civil war in Iraq and the hanging of Saddam Hussein, the new oil law has quietly been going through several drafts, and is now on the point of being presented to the cabinet and then the parliament in Baghdad. Its provisions are a radical departure from the norm for developing countries: under a system known as "production-sharing agreements", or PSAs, oil majors such as BP and Shell in Britain, and Exxon and Chevron in the US, would be able to sign deals of up to 30 years to extract Iraq's oil.

Critics fear that given Iraq's weak bargaining position, it could get locked in now to deals on bad terms for decades to come. "Iraq would end up with the worst possible outcome," said Greg Muttitt of Platform, a human rights and environmental group that monitors the oil industry. He said the new legislation was drafted with the assistance of BearingPoint, an American consultancy firm hired by the US government, which had a representative working in the American embassy in Baghdad for several months.

Britain and the US have always hotly denied that the war was fought for oil. On 18 March 2003, with the invasion imminent, Tony Blair proposed the House of Commons motion to back the war. "The oil revenues, which people falsely claim that we want to seize, should be put in a trust fund for the Iraqi people administered through the UN," he said.

.. the often-stated aim of the US and Britain was that Iraq's oil money would be used to pay for reconstruction. In July 2003, for example, Colin Powell, then Secretary of State, insisted: "We have not taken one drop of Iraqi oil for US purposes, or for coalition purposes. Quite the contrary... It cost a great deal of money to prosecute this war. But the oil of the Iraqi people belongs to the Iraqi people; it is their wealth, it will be used for their benefit. So we did not do it for oil."

Paul Wolfowitz, Deputy Defense Secretary at the time of the war and now head of the World Bank, told Congress: "We're dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon."

The perception that Iraq's wealth is being carved up among foreigners can only add further fuel to the flames of the insurgency, defeating the purpose of sending more American troops to a country already described in a US intelligence report as a cause célèbre for terrorism.

Despite US and British denials that oil was a war aim, American troops were detailed to secure oil facilities as they fought their way to Baghdad in 2003. And while former defence secretary Donald Rumsfeld shrugged off the orgy of looting after the fall of Saddam's statue in Baghdad, the Oil Ministry - alone of all the seats of power in the Iraqi capital - was under American guard.

The largest beneficiary of reconstruction work in Iraq has been KBR (Kellogg, Brown & Root), a division of US giant Halliburton, which to date has secured contracts in Iraq worth $13bn (£7bn), including an uncontested $7bn contract to rebuild Iraq's oil infrastructure. Other companies benefiting from Iraq contracts include Bechtel, the giant US conglomerate, BearingPoint, the consultant group that advised on the drawing up of Iraq's new oil legislation, and General Electric. According to the US-based Centre for Public Integrity, 150-plus US companies have won contracts in Iraq worth over $50bn.


WHAT THEY SAID

"Oil revenues, which people falsely claim that we want to seize, should be put in a trust fund for the Iraqi people"

Tony Blair; Moving motion for war with Iraq, 18 March 2003

"Oil belongs to the Iraqi people; the government has... to be good stewards of that valuable asset "

George Bush; Press conference, 14 June 2006

"The oil of the Iraqi people... is their wealth. We did not [invade Iraq] for oil "

Colin Powell; Press briefing, 10 July 2003

"Oil revenues of Iraq could bring between $50bn and $100bn in two or three years... [Iraq] can finance its reconstruction"

Paul Wolfowitz; Deputy Defense Secretary, March 2003

"By 2010 we will need [a further] 50 million barrels a day. The Middle East, with two-thirds of the oil and the lowest cost, is still where the prize lies"

Dick Cheney; US Vice-President, 1999


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: saulgoldie
Date: 08 May 06 - 05:30 PM

I fergit the source, but hasn't it been suggested that oil discovery peaked in 1965, and that we are on the downside of the graph now with even more demands on a dwindling supply?


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 05:56 PM

I can visualize electric cars charged with wind turbines, and cars fueled with bio-diesel for 'some' purposes..etc...but aircraft? Do they have a way to fly not based on petroleum?

Right now, the high cost of oil is just telling Canada that it is profitable to dig up half of Alberta and process oil sands....and Western US has Oil SHALE......they just won't give up till the last cup of oil is refined...


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 04:05 PM

I believe that energy will be the next growth area,
Ideally nuclear fusion would provide cheap unlimited energy,
we know it works because thats the way the Sun works.
Cheap energy would really solve a lot of other problems as well.

fusion is a long way away is still a long way away.
I expect there will be a number of alternative energy sources
wind, tidal, biofuels solar etc. that will come online when
oil really does become expensive. Right now the average Canadian
spends $1300 a year on gasoline, which is not a lot compared to the cost of a vehicle (it still not economical to purchase a hybrid for the savings in gas) although environmentaly with the total costs calculated in, probably makes more sense.

some problems are being solved such as storing of wind power.
Spanish wind farms are installing systems that will store excess energy ...sorry for the cut & paste - linking didnt seem to work

Hydrogenics Awarded Contract by Gas Natural to Deliver Hydrogen Station to Spanish Wind Farm
Tuesday January 31, 7:30 am ET
Leading European Utility Using Hydrogen to Capture Excess Wind Power

MISSISSAUGA, Ontario--(BUSINESS WIRE)--Jan. 31, 2006--Hydrogenics Corporation (TSX:HYG - News; NASDAQ:HYGS - News), a designer and manufacturer of hydrogen and fuel cell systems, announced today that the company has been awarded a contract for over EUR 500,000 to deliver a hydrogen station to Gas Natural SDG, a Spanish-based energy services multinational with approximately ten million customers in Spain, Latin America, Italy and France (www.gasnatural.com).

ADVERTISEMENT
Gas Natural will use a Hydrogenics' HySTAT(TM)-A Hydrogen Station at the Sotavento Galicia wind farm to produce up to 60 Nm3/hr of hydrogen. The hydrogen will be used to fuel an internal combustion engine generator, which in turn will supply electricity to the electric grid.

Presently, the Sotavento Galicia wind farm produces more electricity than can be delivered to the grid and the excess "green" electricity cannot be stored or delivered to the electrical grid, resulting in lost revenue. By powering the HySTAT Hydrogen Station with the excess wind energy, Gas Natural will now provide the means to capture high value electricity that otherwise would have been lost and utilize it to make more electricity for the grid than was achievable in the past.

"This project demonstrates the role that hydrogen can play as an energy carrier," said Pierre Rivard, Hydrogenics President and Chief Executive Officer. "One of the biggest challenges with wind power is that unused energy can not be stored for later use when the wind isn't blowing. Hydrogen solves this problem. As we will prove at this location, excess electricity from wind can produce hydrogen to fuel an internal combustion engine, essentially turning that excess wind power back into electricity that people can use."

The project at the Sotavento Galicia wind farm is completely green and is the sixth project that Hydrogenics has announced with various worldwide customers where hydrogen stations are powered by wind or solar energy. This latest hydrogen station, complete with outdoor housing and auxiliary equipment, will be installed and commissioned by September, 2006.

ts due to numerous factors, including changes in the competitive e arise after the date of this release. The forward-looking statements contained in this release are expressly qualified by this.

Hydrogenics Corporation (TSX:HYG - News; NASDAQ:HYGS - News)


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: robomatic
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 02:15 PM

That's a reasonable start, Amos. I presume when you derived the gasoline equivalent of a home's use of electricity you were using the theoretical absolute energy content of the gasoline, which a heat-engine (of which internal combustion is an example) can only reach 50% as a MAXIMUM and in practice only reaches maybe 20-30% in efficiency (of turning the gasoline into mileage). I remember a Scientific American article comparing high efficiency of transport. First came railroads, then came bicycles.

The other problem is the distinction between energy consumable as fuel and energy dispensed over the grid. Nuclear energy primarilly goes into the grid along with hydro as big sources of energy which don't produce carbon dioxide as a waste product. Transportation via the grid as I have mentioned above can be done efficiently as Europe and Japan have been doing by a great investment in electrification of the rail system.

Aviation is vulnerable to high fuel costs, but there has been a lot of research into 'beaming' energy at aircraft, which would promote high efficiency in air transport.

We can also hope that the fusion energy problem gets licked, so that we can derive vast amounts of energy through this process.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:47 PM

The average home uses about 30 KWHs a day (not including transportation).

This is the equivalent in joules to about the total energy in a single gallon of gasoline (about 120.6 megajoules). For a year, this rounds up to 44,019 megajoules for the home.

If an average car drives 15-20,000 miles a year and in doing so (for the sake of estimation) uses 1,000 gallons of gasoline, it will consume about 115,000,000 BTUs of energy, the equivalent of 33,500 KWHrs or 120,600 megajoules of energy.

So what is needed is a method of independently providing a home+car with about 165,000 megajoules per year of energy for house and one car. For a two car family, make it 285,000 megajoules.

This estimate is distorted to the high side because of the inefficiency of a car's mechanism which loses large proportionate amounts of its energy in unnecessary drains such as wind-resistance, heat-loss, and so on.

A


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: autolycus
Date: 10 Feb 06 - 12:21 PM

CarolC - I think guest's point is that we could and could have saved a lot of time, and helped ourselves, if we don't wait until Our Glorious Leaders speak the truths. They usually arrive very late to the party, when we're that much nearer the brink. Tho' James Lovelock, of Gaia fame is one who thinks it's too late anyway.

Auto.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: CarolC
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 01:53 PM

Well done, Sweden!


Now Bush is repeating it and people suddenly want to listen.

That's ok, Guest,09 Feb 06 - 12:41 PM, as long as he says it and people listen, that's what matters. We don't help bring about the needed changes if we criticize people for changing.

If Bush is able to bring our energy economy in line with what the world (and the environment) needs, and if he follows Sweden's lead by doing it without increasing our use of nuclear energy, I will be grateful to him for it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:41 PM

>>While we continue to throw away plastics when we've finished with them we are discarding a valauable resource as well as damaging our fragile eco-system. If we re-cycle more plastics now, we could at least partially reduce the impact of future oil shortage on our industry and our lifes.<<

Jimmy Carter proposed doing things like that back in the 70s and was called a liberal pantywaist. Now Bush is repeating it and people suddenly want to listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 12:23 PM

I agree with Wolfgang that before oil runs out it will get too expensive to burn it.   The problem is that there will be wars, starvation and death fighting for the oil as it gets more scarce.

New wind power is getting very competitive with new coal or new gas plants.   The problem is that it can't compete with existing coal plants and that the people managing our energy purchases (I am not talking about Washington) are only looking at short term costs.

It is a very scary proposition.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Wolfgang
Date: 09 Feb 06 - 11:55 AM

Sweden plans to be world's first oil-free economy

Good idea. As oil gets more expensive (and less reliable) any market economy will soon develop alternatives. Oil will never run out, it will only get too expensive to burn it.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 12:01 PM

Well played Leadhead! I have been out most of the day and so couldn't do battle with you. But, we'll meet again!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:46 AM

Wheres Ted ?? thats a 200 !!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Apr 05 - 05:45 AM

You undo the sump plug , and YES ! The oil will run out !


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,petrt
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 08:37 PM

the calculation in hubbertspeak.com thats interesting is that if you
were to calculate all the energy in the estimated oil reserves in the world - that is the oil already used up and the oil still in reserves -
it would equal the 24hours of the suns energy that strikes the earth.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 14 Apr 05 - 04:39 PM

I was at the Federal Reserve Bank Energy Seminar a month ago.   Stephanie Balltels from the EIA division of the Department of Energy gave one of the presentations.   An interensting tidbit:

In 1971 the oil reserves for the world were estimated at 200 billion barrels.   Since that time we have pumped 400 billion barrels and the oil reserve is estimated today at 209 billion barrels- more than in 1971.   That is because of costs and technology we have discovered new sources and reserves such as the Gulf of Mexico.

I am a big fan of renewable energy but have grave concerns.   About 20 states in the country have mandated standards.   According to Global energy Solutions in California, but 2020 we will have a shortfall of 52,729 MW with an investment of $53.4 billion dollars just to meet the mandated standards.   76% of this is supposed to come from wind energy.   I just don't see how that is going to happen.
That doesn't even account for voluntary programs or new mandates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 04:33 PM

Indead bacteria has been found a mile down. As far as the surface bios[here goes, it is predominantly insectoid.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 03:39 PM

True...Iworry about its shock absorption properties in the earth's crust.plate tectonics and all. But the good news is that kudzu will never run out; sewage will never run out. Food packing waste will never run out. We aren't using what is at hand like we should be. But I am positive that they have patents and engines just waiting to run on whatever. That doesn't mean we wouldn't have a world-wide depression or war waiting for them to be built...but I am sure they are up and running somewhere.. mg


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 01:20 PM

I did wonder where Donuel did get that from and I've found a site about a man and an idea that might appeal to Donuel's fondness for the fanciful:

Fuel's Paradise

Judge for yourselves:
The belief that oil would run out, and that those with a source could always increase the price, caused the early-'70s oil crisis. That, to my mind, is a completely stupid attitude

I don't believe he's right except perhaps in some minor details, but not in the large picture.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 12:46 PM

To the complete surprise of many oil geologists - some abandonned and depleted oil wells in the Gulf of Mexico have begun to refill.
Not much is known about this phenomenon in other oil reserves around the world but it is well worth watching.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 13 Apr 05 - 12:33 PM

well PHEV vehicles are becoming very popular and intriguing --
(in Business Week article) these are hybrid vehicles such as the prius
which are modified with a larger battery pack is added and are recharged.
The car is plugged in overnight and can typically travel 50km before switching over to gas.. Since most daily commutes are 30kms? or the number of times one needs to gas up is very low. Also the power used is offpeak electricity. Of course theres still a way to go, modifying a vehicle will void its warranty, and Toyota still has no plans in making a Plug in Hybrid Vehicle but possible consumers may make the choice themselves given ever higher gas prices..

OF course if everyone switches over then there would be more demand for electricity..


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: saulgoldie
Date: 12 Apr 05 - 09:52 PM

But wait, there's more:
http://www.truthout.org/issues_05/041205EB.shtml
We are truly doomed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: saulgoldie
Date: 04 Apr 05 - 09:21 AM

Here it is:

http://www.alternet.org/envirohealth/21588/

See that? Just over the horizon...NUKES! I mean, what else is there? We haven't supported research and incentives for alternatives since about the last "oil crisis," and "President Oil" is not likely to any time soon. Enjoy your SUV while you have it.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 03:10 PM

What? You clicked on a perfectly smooth and symmetrical Gaussian curve with no axes and expected science ? ! ? ! ?

I never clicked on it before. Now I see what you mean.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 01:08 PM

I see what you mean, but it hasn't worked with me: I first have seen their attention-grabber logo, have then seen that the logo is clickable, have clicked on it hoping to get more information and they wanted to sell me T-shirts.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 12:47 PM

Don't mean to be argumentative, but the graph without axes and a "we are here" warning is the attention-getter at the top of the page - surely intended more as a banner or logo than as the "meat" of the site. In fact, from there, you are one click away from graphs with axes, and tables with actual data (and links to both pro- and con-Hubbert analyses). So, I guess the specific graph that you label as propaganda is, in fact, propaganda... but in the same way that any logo or banner is propaganda. With little effort, it is quite easy to get to the actual information below the logo.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 17 Feb 05 - 05:49 AM

TIA,

I do not consider Deffeyes 'propaganda', only the site in your second link. The way they draw a beautiful bell-shaped curve with no axes given and state confidently 'we are here' including the perfect prediction where we go from now is hubris. They use a result which I consider serious in the way of propaganda.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 04:40 PM

Wolfgang:

Perhaps I misunderstand you...I'm not sure why the opinion of the geologist I cite (Deffeyes of Princeton, author of a book favorably reviewed in Scientific American) is "propaganda", and the opinion of the one you cite (Laherrere of unspecified affiliation, author of a proposed - and not yet reviewed? - submission to the Canadian Oil and Gas Journal) is "more than propaganda". Not saying yours is wrong - he or she makes good points - just puzzled about your criteria for "propaganda".

And, yes, that there will be a peak in oil production is "trivial" in the mathematical sense of the word, but it is not "obvious" to the uninformed (namely politicians) and it is far from "inconsequential".

The exact time is quite open to debate, but I (and many geologists) believe that "soon" is a fair characterization.

Like you, I welcome the end of oil, but I also fear it at the same time. If our leaders would acknowledge that the end of oil is coming, and foster a smooth transition to alternative energy, the world would benefit greatly. However, if, as they appear to be doing now, they ignore the inevitable, and grasp and claw and invade and kill for the last drops of oil, the world will greatly suffer.

I am afraid that it is no accident that the current US administration - composed largely of oil people, and awash in oil money - has done nothing to promote alternative energy. Instead they invaded oil-rich Iraq for reasons that better suit oil-less North Korea.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 16 Feb 05 - 09:54 AM

TIA,

the 'we are here' on your second link made me smile. Someone is taking a model prediction with all inaccuracies at face value. But I think it is thought as propaganda and as such it is good. Who wants to read more than propaganda, could have a look at:

THE HUBBERT CURVE : ITS STRENGTHS AND WEAKNESSES

That there will be a peak in oil production, eventually, is trivial. The exact time when this will be is open to debate. I hope it will be soon for that will mean one of two things and I'll be glad about each of it:
(1) oil is getting more expensive so that alternative sources of energy production are economically competitive.
(2) alternative sources of energy production are getting cheaper by themselves with the same result.

I predict that this will be a smooth transition driven by the price of energy.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 05:37 PM

The US past its Hubberts Peak in the 1970's. I.e., US oil production is in decline. It has not completely run out, but it is the late afternoon or evening for US oil.


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Subject: RE: BS: Oil will run out
From: CarolC
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 02:28 PM

In 1914, the US Bureau of Mines estimated that oil would last for another ten years.
In 1939, the US Department of the Interior was a bit more optimistic: 13 years.


Were they talking about oil from locations in the US? My understanding is that with the exception of a few areas such as the north slope in Alaska and things like oil shale, the oil did run out in the US some time in the last few decades (sometime in the '60s or '70s?).


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