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Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?

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GUEST,Len Wallace 04 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM
The Borchester Echo 04 Feb 04 - 12:34 PM
Malcolm Douglas 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM
Brakn 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM
IanC 04 Feb 04 - 12:36 PM
John Routledge 04 Feb 04 - 12:37 PM
GUEST,Frank Hamilton 04 Feb 04 - 03:29 PM
Ed. 04 Feb 04 - 03:38 PM
The Borchester Echo 04 Feb 04 - 03:46 PM
Joybell 04 Feb 04 - 04:53 PM
Jim McLean 04 Feb 04 - 05:35 PM
The Borchester Echo 04 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM
GUEST,Sooz(at work) 05 Feb 04 - 07:56 AM
HipflaskAndy 05 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM
Lighter 05 Feb 04 - 11:52 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Feb 04 - 01:38 PM
Folkiedave 05 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM
GUEST,Cusco 05 Feb 04 - 02:55 PM
The Borchester Echo 05 Feb 04 - 03:15 PM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Feb 04 - 05:15 PM
Folkiedave 05 Feb 04 - 08:16 PM
Compton 05 Feb 04 - 08:22 PM
George Papavgeris 06 Feb 04 - 03:41 AM
GUEST,noddy 06 Feb 04 - 05:19 AM
GUEST,Prince(ss ) Louise 06 Feb 04 - 07:57 AM
GUEST,Len Wallace 06 Feb 04 - 10:24 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Feb 04 - 11:38 AM
GUEST,Guest Mingulay 06 Feb 04 - 11:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Feb 04 - 12:06 PM
Bill D 06 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM
Roberto 07 Feb 04 - 10:09 AM
Brakn 07 Feb 04 - 10:16 AM
greg stephens 07 Feb 04 - 11:53 AM
The Borchester Echo 07 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM
GUEST,Ewan McVicar 08 Feb 04 - 06:39 AM
Jim McLean 08 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 08 Feb 04 - 02:04 PM
Brakn 08 Feb 04 - 08:07 PM
Shanghaiceltic 09 Feb 04 - 04:32 AM
greg stephens 09 Feb 04 - 04:44 AM
Jim McLean 09 Feb 04 - 05:10 AM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Feb 04 - 05:04 PM
Tattie Bogle 09 Feb 04 - 06:53 PM
Jim McLean 10 Feb 04 - 05:01 AM
Jim McLean 10 Feb 04 - 05:16 AM
Jim McLean 10 Feb 04 - 05:44 AM
The Borchester Echo 10 Feb 04 - 05:53 AM
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Subject: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM

okay, I don't want to start a controversy, and I respect his work and life. But I'd like to know people's opinions on a rather pervserse question.

Was Ewan MacColl a "Scotsman"? An Anglicised Scot? A Scottishized Anglo?

Len Wallace


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:34 PM

World citizen?


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM

His parents were Scottish. He was born, and grew up, in Salford.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Brakn
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:35 PM

Born Salford as Jimmy Millar I think - changed his name. It's all been discussed before if you care to look.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: IanC
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:36 PM

Len

It's usually worth doing a search before starting a new thread. Putting Ewan McColl in the box at the top gets you loads of information, including this thread:

Who's Ewan McColl?

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: John Routledge
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 12:37 PM

Hi Len

If you put "Ewan MacColl" in the filter box on main thread page set it for three years and set it running you will find as much as you wish to know about MacColl.

He was English born of Scottish parents to simply anwer your question


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:29 PM

Who cares? He was a great interpreter of Scottish ballads. One of the best!
I don't care if he came from the North Pole.

This brings up an interesting point, though. How authentic is authentic?
Do you have to be from a specific locale to interpret the songs from that
area effectively?

I don't think so.

Frank


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Ed.
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:38 PM

Frank,

In answer to your question, I'll quote Martin Carthy:

"It is utterly ridiculous to try to keep folk music pure because it has never been pure; it is a mish-mash"

I don't think much more needs saying.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 03:46 PM

At the Singers Club Ewan himself insisted that you must only perform the music of your provenence. This applied to everyone except him.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Joybell
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 04:53 PM

No you don't have to be from anywhere in particular to interpret a song, but when false claims are made about a singer's origins, (or a songs origins) I think it DOES matter. Joy


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:35 PM

I appreciate McColl as a great writer but I cringe every time I heard/hear him put on a Scottish accent.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 04 Feb 04 - 05:52 PM

Ewan MacColl was first and foremost an actor. He adopted the accent of his parents as it was, after all, merely the consequence of his father having to move in search of work that he was brought up in the North West of England rather than Scotland. He grew up in an emigre community of Scots and doubtless felt much more Scottish than English.

And while there may be other reasons behind his change of name from Jimmie Miller, one motivation was certainly the Lallans movement after World War II where it was common practice to adopt the name of a poet or writer from the past. Like Hugh MacDiarmid, this is what Ewan did.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Sooz(at work)
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 07:56 AM

Scotch by absorption?


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: HipflaskAndy
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM

One does try to absorb as much Scotch as one can - HFA

(Also born South of the border to Scottish parents that moved in search of work - also with no Scottish accent - tho' unconsciously it comes right out there when tired, angry, or speaking to other Scots folk - musical ear to blame? So I empathise wi' the chappie.)


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Lighter
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 11:52 AM

Let's try to remember that culture is a state of mind. Accents have nothing to do with it.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 01:38 PM

"..it was common practice to adopt the name of a poet or writer from the past. Like Hugh MacDiarmid, this is what Ewan did. "

That implies that there was an earlier poet or writer called "Ewan MacColl". Was there?


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 02:43 PM

Just to make sure that the policy of the Singers Club is quoted correctly.

"We were also intent on proving that we had an indigenous folk-music that was as muscular, as varied and as beautiful as music anywhere in the world. We felt it was necessary to explore our music first to distance ourselves from skiffle with its legion of quasi-Americans. The folk club should be place where our native music should have pride of place and where the folk music of other nations would be treated with dignity and respect. So the resident singers of Ballads and Blues decided on a policy that from now on residents, guest singers and those who sang from the floor should limit themselves to songs which were in a language the singer spoke or understood".

Journeyman. Page 288

That would let Ewan sing in Scottish or English as his whimsy took him. It allowed Bert to sing English or Australian songs. I am sure they extended similar privileges to others.

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Cusco
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 02:55 PM

I think a lot of people were (and still are) morer inclined to claim their Salford heritage before that of their parents wherever they had come from. It was that sort of a place. At the same time the families would still hold true to Irish, Scottish, Welsh, maybe even Yorkshire heritage.

One of the most Electrifying experiences I have ever had was in the Palace theatre just over the river in Manchester, less than two miles from where Jimmy Miller was born. Barbara Dickson as part of her "Seven Ages of Woman" show coupled "She's leaving Home" with "The First Time Ever".

Most of the audience were there for her popular music credentials rather than her impeccable folk ones.

The combined audible gasp at the end when peole were capable of taking a breath was unbeleivable. As was the involuntary movement of fingers towards eyes.

The proximity of the performance of the song to McColls birthplace will have been lost on the majority of the audience but for me it will always remain as one of the most remembered moments that Folk has given me over the years ( and there's been a lot).


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 03:15 PM

McGrath:   An earlier Ewan MacColl? According to Peggy Seeger's preface to Journeyman, this was so.

A good wheeze at the Singers Club used to be to see how many times you could get away with singing a song from somewhere other than where you actually came from. Woe betide you though if Ewan recognised you from a previous week.

But as far as I know, no-one ever challenged him when he did an American song, or one from the music halls...


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 05:15 PM

So who was the ur-Ewan MacColl?

That Singers' Club policy should of course have meant that American songs would have been perfectly kosher: "Guest singers and those who sang from the floor should limit themselves to songs which were in a language the singer spoke or understood".

That doesn't mean Ewan would have approved. Though I remember that, at Ballads and Blues, he never showed any objections to Jack Elliott singing "I belong tae Glesca".


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:16 PM

I suspect the answer is that they weren't all that fussy and were trying to get away from that pseudo-mid atlantic accent that pop stars and would be pop stars adopt. So long as it sounded ok (from wherever they were) then it was alright. I went a couple of times and to be honest found it a bit "stuffy".............

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Compton
Date: 05 Feb 04 - 08:22 PM

My wife was born in Edinburgh to (both) English parents...ergo,she's English..
..On those grounds, Ewan McColl is Scottish!


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 03:41 AM

I believe the Millars' milkman, Stavros, was Greek...
Sorry, I feel in a devilish mood this morning!
Fact is, I'd have had no chance if I'd gone to the Singers Club in Ewan's days. Who wants to hear "Never on a Sunday" week in, week out? I know I don't. And "Flowers & Guns" would not have existed.
OK, I know I am unusual in my provenance; but extreme conditions test the rule, and this rule is left wanting. Just because Ewan was a great singer and writer it doesn't make everything he said or did great - this rule stank.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 05:19 AM

will the real Ewan please stand up please stand up please stand up


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Prince(ss ) Louise
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 07:57 AM

Should this be a new thread ?

Re The Ballads & Blues Club
BALLAD & BLUES CLUB

Saw it mentioned on this thread and was somewhat surprised as I didnt think many people remembered us.

I followed this up by looking at a MacColl web site where it stated that the Ballads and Blues changed it's name. I don't think so. Ewan and Peggy went off and started the Singers Club and the Ballads and Blues Club carried on until May 1965 when for reason's outside it's control it had to cease.

Thinking back to the early days in Holborn, does anybody know what happened to such transatlantic and home grown visitors as Winston and Mary Jane Young, Dean Gitter, etc ? and do Sandy & Caroline Paton still perform ? Where is Lisa Turner? one of the few people who refused to follow MacColl's wishes. Lisa sang and played the 5 string and like many of us preferred American material.We had some most entertaining evenings including the time when Ewan and Dominic Behan nearly came to blows over Alan Lomax collecting methods in Ireland

Still an addict after all these years. There's no way out.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Len Wallace
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 10:24 AM

Thanks for the discussion folks.

I know the question may have seemed a little perverse. I just needed to hear people's opinions. I'm currently writing an article for a local Irish-American newspaper concerning that very point- that one does not have to be, for example, Scottish to sing Scottish songs, etc. I have a Scottish last name (which Canadian immigrantion officials signed my dad as when he entered Canada when he was 17 back in 1928). I am Canadian born with a Byelorussian dad and Ukrainian-Canadian mother, and have spent half my life performing Irish and Scottish folk. To some people I am not considered "authentic". I consider myself Irish by osmosis and when asked my nationality I tell people I am a "citizen of the world". My Scottish brogue whenever needed goes well and my Yiddish passable.

In terms of trying to find this information and such opinion specifically about Ewan MacColl from other threads, I did review them (as was suggested above) but the commentary made in them was not suitable to the purpose I had.

Glad everyone joined in with their opinions.

For music that never dies,

Len Wallace


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:38 AM

I think the healthy way is the Irish way - sing songs you like reagrdless of where they come from, but sing them in your own voice. The result of that is that everyone starts assuming that the songs are Irish in origin, but so what?

That was the great thing with Lonnie Donnegan, he never put on a foreign accent to sing a foreign song.   And, thanks to Alex Campbell, I'll always have a tendency to think of Irene Goodnight as being Scottish.

......................

And I'm still waiting for someone to come up with the goods on the "poet or writer from the past" from whom Ewan MacColl borrowed the name.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Guest Mingulay
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 11:56 AM

I think that El Greko is correct but wonder just how many songs
he will now write this coming week relating Stavros to MacColl
and the folk revival. Perhaps a new CD is in the offing.
Suggestions for a title please on plain paper to the usual
address. I did think of Hello! Hello! Ouzo your lady friend.
But perhaps not


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:06 PM

From Hamish Henderson (in "Alias MacAlias"):

"The linguistic purist might cavil about Ewan's highly idiosyncretic Scottish accent...but this seems to me more than compensated for by the vivid - indeed dynamic - artistry of the singer." (review 1977)

"Although his speech always retained its native Lancashire intonation, he became a master of sung Ballad-Scots." (tribute, 1991)


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM

good singers who embrace the gamut of good folk music often are able to approximate almost any dialect/accent they choose. Ewan certainly sang well enough to give ME a feel for the songs...just as Jean Redpath was able to switch into American English 'almost' well enough to pass...she even incorporated examples into her performance to demonstrate how dialects work.

   It can be 'interesting' to read insights by those who know some of the details of a singers past and heritage, but the test is in how well you enjoy the music when listening with your eyes closed.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Roberto
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:09 AM

Does Ewan MacColl's Scottish accent sound strange, old fashioned, non-Scottish, English, or what, to a Scots speaking listener?


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Brakn
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:16 AM

Can white man sing the blues.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: greg stephens
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 11:53 AM

Let us not forget that Ewan McColl recorded "John Henry". Whether he was Lancashire, Scottish or both may be disputed, but he most certainly was not a black steel-driver at the Big Bend Tunnel on the C&O Road. :ike many opinionated bigots, he was often ready to dispense advice to others that he wasnt willing to take himself. However, unlike most opinionated bigots, he was a brilliant singer and song-writer, so I am willing to forgive him for spouting offensive drivel.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 12:30 PM

Blimey, Greg, I think we agree!


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 06:39 AM

I don't know where I read it, [a magazine article many years ago, I think] any don't quote me for the locale, but I recollect reading that Evan [not Ewan] MacColl was a 19C Perthshire Gaelic minor poet. I have often said with pride that in 1960 I sang so much like MacColl people would ask what my name was before I changed it to Ewan. I would retort that I was Ewan in 1941, four years before he was.
I got the impression from another source I don't recall that the Ewan MacColl was a playwriting persona, and he seems to have recorded for Lomax in 1951 as Jimmy Miller, though he signed the relevant letter alerting Hamish Henderson about Lomax as Ewan.
These recordings, in the Lomax archives, are fascinating, and I'm urging that the Lomax people try to get them released on Rounder.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM

This was taken from the History of the McColls.

(I mentioned on another thread that McColl was berated me for wearing a [McLean]Tartan tie .. he seemed to equate it with Scottish Nationalism! .. I said to him 'My name is McLean, Mr Miller'.)


Tradition has it that the MacColls have been associated with the area round Loch Fyne from an early date ... The MacColls most famous exponent was Evan McColl the Gaelic poet who was born at Kenmore on Loch Fyne in 1808. He was the author of the "The Mountain Minstrel" or in Gaelic "Clarsach nam Beann". He died at the end of the century and a monument was erected at Kenmore in his memory, which was unveiled in 1930 by His Grace the Duke of Argyll.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 02:04 PM

Apparently Evan McColl (I wonder if "Ewan" was a mistake or intentional - they are both the same name of course) emigrated to Canada - here's some information about him from an encyclopedia:

MacCOLL, Evan, Canadian poet, born in Kenmore, Argyleshire, Scotland, 21 September, 1808. He received a good education, and in 1837 became a contributor to the " Gaelic Magazine" published in Glasgow.

In 1831 MacColl's family emigrated to Canada, but he remained behind, and in 1837 was appointed a clerk in the Liverpool custom-house. In 1850 he removed to Canada, and soon afterward obtained a situation in the Kingston custom-house, where he remained till he was retired in 1880.

During his residence in Canada he has written numerous poems, chiefly of a lyrical character, the most, noted of which is "My Rowan Tree." He has been for many years the bard of the St Andrew's society of Kingston. He has published in book-form " Clar-sach Nan Beann, or Poems and Songs in Gaelic" (Glasgow, 1837; new edition, 1886), and " The Mountain Minstrel, or Poems and Songs in English" ; third Canadian edition of his works (Toronto, 1887). See Wilson's "Poets and Poetry of Scotland" (New York, 1876).

His daughter, Mary Jemima, born in Liverpool, England, 7 May, 1847, was educated in Kingston, Ontario, taught for several years, and in 1881 married Professor Otto Henry Schulte, of Hasbrouck institute, Jersey City, New Jersey She is the author of "Bide a Wee, and other Poems" (Buffalo, 1879; 4th ed., Toronto).


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Brakn
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 08:07 PM

It's not relevant but just in case anyone's interested, I found them on the 1880 Canadian census.

Rideau Ward, Kingston, Frontenac, Ontario

Name Marital Status Gender Ethnic Origin Age Birthplace Occupation Religion
Evan MCCALL   M   Male   Scottish   74   Scotland   Gent.   Weslyan Methodist
Isabella MCCALL   M   Female   Scottish   65   Q       Weslyan Methodist
Jessie MCCALL      Female   Scottish   28   Q       Weslyan Methodist
Nellie MCCALL      Female   Scottish   20   Ontario      Weslyan Methodist
Florence MCCALL      Female   Scottish   16   Ontario      Weslyan Methodist


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:32 AM

I too love Ewan MacColl's work and songs. But here is soemthing I came up with after my curiosity was aroused by this thread.

The name MacColl does not appear as a defined clan name according to the authoritive and encyclopedic book on Scottish clans 'The Scottish Clan and family Encyclopedia' written by George Way of Plean and Romilly Squire. It is still in print.

The names MacColl, MacCall and MacCaul do appear and they come under the leadership of the Clan MacDonald.

Then it gets more interesting as there are three Clan McDoanld's.

MacDonald of Macdonald
MacDonald of Clanranald
MacDonald of Sleat

All of the above three clans are related by history and all at some time were Lords of the Isles. They were also the founders of other great clans.

On reading the three histories in the book it would seem to me that the MacColl's are descended from those who lived on the Isle of Coll in the western isles and owed alliegance to MacDonald of MacDonald.

Whatever, his work is great.

For those of you of Scottish blood or descent then the book I mentioned above is a superb reference.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: greg stephens
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 04:44 AM

Was the phrase "ethnic origin" really in use in Canada in 1880? That surprises me, I thought it came into general use much more recently, in Britain at any rate.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 05:10 AM

I have a collection of Evan MacColl's poems and, out of interest, his My Rowan Tree is not the popular one most of us know (just in case one might think otherwise). They are mostly of the heather, hills and loch variety.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 05:04 PM

It'd be interesting to see a sample, to give an indication, was it just that Ewan MacColl liked the name, or was there something more about what the man wrote that he felt spoke to him.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 09 Feb 04 - 06:53 PM

I was born in Scotland, but taken to England at 9 weeks old: hence I have an English accent, which 18 years in Scotland has not changed. My kids were both born in England, but brought to Scotland at age 9 and 3, so they both have Scottish accents: so who's English and who's Scottish?
Incidentally we called our son Ewan, "as in Ewan McColl", to which the reply from many - "Who's he?" I very much admired Ewan McColl's singing classing myself as a folkie, but to a non-folkie, he's unfortunately not as well-known!


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:01 AM

McGrath of Harlow, here is the first couple of verses from EVENING ADDRESS TO LOCH LOMOND:


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:16 AM

(SORRY, FINGER SLIPPED)
   (19 verses)
Lake of beauty! Lake of splendour,
All surpassing! Lomond rare;
Fondly to thee would I render,
Praise befitting scene so fair.

Matchless mirror of the Highlands,
Cold's the heart that feels no glow,
Viewing thee with all thy islands -
Heaven above and heaven below!

Last verse:
From his lair the fox is stealing,
Quits the owl her hermit cell:
Vision far past all revealing,
Dear Lochlomond, now farewell!

The only 'political' poem I could find is one called GLORY TO THE BRAVE! (4 verses)

Last verse:
Glory to the brave! Soon may they return
Crown'd with wreaths of never dying-fame!
Soon their haughty foe shall his rashness mourne,
Cover'd with discomfiture and shame.
Potent though he be,
Europe shall him see
Mercy on his knee lowly crave.
Such be quick the fall
Of earth's despots all,
Glory, glory, glory to the brave.

Evan MacColl was undoubtedly a good lyrical poet as some of his poems show but I cannot see Ewan (Jimmy Miller) calling himself after Evan for that reason.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:44 AM

PPS Countess Richard .. The Lallans movement started long before the second World War. MacDiarmid's Sangshaw was published in 1925 by which time he had obviously changed his name from Chris Grieve. Ewan MacColl was never in favour of anything which smacked of Scottish Independence and I feel there had to be another reason for his change of name.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:53 AM

Hi Jim,

I was quoting Peggy Seeger in her introduction to Journeyman, Ewan's autobiography published just after his death in 1990, in which she speculates on the various 'blank spots' of his life.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 05:55 PM

Hi Countess,
I had many a discussion with Ewan about UK politics and he definitely didn't agree with MacDiarmid or the Lallans movement. He was very British in his stance and thought any movement away from that was a 'betrayel of the British working man'. When we discussed things in his house, Peggy always sat beside him with her knitting, prodding him now and again to keep him on track when he wandered! It was quite a strange double act. His main argument against Lallans was that Scottish poets of lang syne wrote in Latin and not in Scots (sic). MacDiarmid tried to drag Scotland into the twentieth century by reinventing an older form of speech but Ewan disagreed with this.
Jim


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: GUEST,Rugger bugger
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 03:08 PM

Judging by our national side you qualify as Scottish if your grannie, from where ever once took a bus trip to the Trossachs so he must be. On the other hand if he had wanted to be English he could be that too. My Daughters - both born in Sevenoaks see themselves a Scottish, French because their mother was, and English because that's where they both live. It suits them and perhaps we should consider how important our nationality is to us. Does it make us all part of the patriot game.


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Subject: RE: Gulp! Ewan MacColl - Scottish or Not?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 04:52 PM

This doesn't worry "Us British" (from "It ain't half hot Mum")...
Ouch, just gave away my age!


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