Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley

Subject: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 06:25 PM

I've searched through all the links here and elsewhere for the actual words to this song which became "Red River Valley". Was the title alone changed to this line? Is that why I can't find it? Thanks, Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 07:41 PM

I found Here a short explaination. Hope it helps you, Rustic

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:54 PM

This collection has a copy of "The Bright Mohawk Valley."
Sam DeVincent Collection of Illustrated American Sheet Music ca. 1790-1890, ...Subseries 8.50 New England, 1844-1948, Box 43, Folder A, Songs about New England, 1844-1948, "Includes "The Bright Mohawk Valley arranged by Nick Manaloff to the tune of "The Red River Valley,"....."

Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute- that sounds like it is a makeover of "The Red River Valley." No date or other details.
No copies at American Memory or in the Levy Collection.

It may be that Carl Sandburg, quoted in many sources, was wrong when he said that "Red River Valley" came from "Bright Mohawk Valley." He seems to be the source of the story.

I can't find any information, except anecdotal, about James J. Kerrigan and his song.
Joybell, I dunno.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 10:57 PM

Here is the Link which I forgot to post: DeVincent Collection
This is a Smithsonian Institution website.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 11:41 PM

Thanks Rustic Rebel. I didn't gain any info. from that link about The Bright Mowhawk Valley but It gave me a few verses to "Ragtime Cowboy Joe" that I hadn't heard. It all adds up to something.

Q, Thank you for trying. If you can't find it I don't know who can! Looks like we are involved in a chicken and egg situation. Now if I could only get a look at the actual song in the De Vincent Collection I could at least start singing it. Thanks anyway though. Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: masato sakurai
Date: 07 Feb 04 - 11:56 PM

Not the one asked for, but there's a related song "The Bright Sherman Valley", sung by Vernon Dalhart.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 12:07 AM

Thanks Masato, It wouldn't have taxed Mr Kingsley too much in the writing of this one would it? It's entirely possible that the words I'm curious about have been forgotten for a good reason. Joy

Subject: ADD: Bright Sherman Valley
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Feb 04 - 03:10 AM

The Bright Sherman Valley
(Robie Kingsley)
(recorded by Vernon Dalhart)

From this valley they tell me you're going,
I miss your blue eyes and bright smile.
For you take with you all the sunshine,
That has brightened my path for awhile.

Let's consider a why you are leaving,
Do not hasten to bid me adieu.
But remember the bright Sherman Valley,
And the girl that has loved you so true.

Do you think of the home you are leaving,
Of your parents so kind and so true?
Do you think of the heart you are breaking,
And the girl who has loved you so true?

When I go to my home in the evening,
How sad and how lonely it will be.
I will pray to the Lord to forgive you,
For the trouble you've caused me to see.

I have waited a long time my darling,
For those words that you never would say.
And at last my poor heart is breaking,
For they tell me you're going away..

When you're far from the scenes of the valley,
And they tell me your journey is through.
Will you think of the bright Sherman Valley,
And the girl who has loved you so true.

Copied from the link Masato provided.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Burke
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 08:45 PM

I searched in World Cat & found three books that have. There are probably other,

Words & Music were published in :
Big Bill Campbell's Rocky Mountain Rhythm song book, no. 2. London: Victory Music Publ. Co., c1946.

Play and sing : America's greatest collection of old time songs and mountain ballads. Chicago, Ill. : M.M. Cole, c1930.

Bright Mohawk Valley/Bright Sherman Valley/The Red River Valley is in:
33 prison and mountain songs : (for home folks) : containing 33 old favorites that will live forever! New York : Shapiro, Bernstein & Co., c1932.

All look pretty rare.

I live in the Mohawk Valley. It has to be one of the greyest areas there is. Calling it bright has to be something of a joke.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: ReeBop
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:06 PM

Ya know...I've been trying to tell my folkie friends that The song was originally about the Mohawk valley (also where I am from) for years and nobody has believed me.

I was begining to think I had made it up.

I agree aboyut the greyness

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Burke
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:18 PM

Nick Manoloff seems to have been active as an arranger in the 1930's.
I found more evidence of his having arranged Red River Valley. In the process I found 3 RRV's from the 1930's. Can't find anything earlier.

Red River Valley - Will D. Moyer - Wm. J. Smith Music Co., Inc. - 1937
Red River Valley (arr by Harold Potter) - Morris Music Co. - 1933
Red River Valley (arr by Nick Manoloff) - Calumet Music Co. - 1935

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 11:25 PM

Does an early printing of "Bright Mohawk Valley" exist? I am beginning to doubt it. All evidence is anecdotal. The only version found so far is the arrangement "to the tune of Red River Valley" (DeVincent Coll. note) by Manoloff.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 02:33 AM

Acccording to Meade et al.'s Country Music Sources (p. 165), Knight Sisters recorded "The Bright Mohawk Valley" in 1932, but it was unissued.

Subject: Lyr Add: BRIGHT SHERMAN VALLEY
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 12:12 PM

" Bright Mohawk Valley/Bright Sherman Valley/The Red River Valley is in: 33 prison and mountain songs : (for home folks) : containing 33 old favorites that will live forever! New York : Shapiro, Bernstein & Co., c1932."

I have the song book mentioned by Burke. Not much info there, but of course the lyrics, music, guitar chords, etc.

"These three songs are all based on the old favorite 'In The Bright Mohawk Valley.' It is interesting to note how the various sections of the country changed the title to suit the local landscape. What a cinch for songwriters in those days."

BRIGHT SHERMAN VALLEY
Red River Valley
Bright Mohawk Valley
By James J. Kerrigan

Oh, they say from this valley you're going
We shall miss your sweet face and bright smile
You will take with you all of the sunshine
That has gladdened our hearts for a while.

I have waited a long time, my darling
For those words that your lips ne'er would say
Now the hope from my heart has departed
And I'm told that you're going away.

For the sake of the past do not leave me
Do not hasten to bid me adieu
Oh! remain in this bright Mohawk Valley
With the fond heart that lives but for you.

Do you think of the valley you're leaving
Oh! how dreary 'twill be when you go
Have you thought of the true heart so lonely
That has loved you and cherished you so.

Tell me not that our lives must be severed
Give me back, love, the smile once so dear
Oh! this valley would lose all its brightness
If its fairest of flow'rs were not here.

Copyright MCMXXXII by Shapiro, Bernstein & Co. Inc. Capitol Theatre Building, Cor. Broadway & 51st Street, New York

Compiled and Edited by Elliott Shapiro
Piano Arrangements by Ted Eastwood
Guitar Arrangements by Anthony J. Franchini

Take all that for what it is worth to you.

The guitar arranger, Anthony Franchini was an excellent guitarist of the period, by the way. He often recorded Hawaiian style songs with Frank Ferera

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST,Dale
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 02:04 PM

A check about Kerrigan returns a date of 1896 for the song. Everyone seems to have a different idea as to whether this was REALLY the original or not.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 02:18 PM

But where is a copy of the 'Kerrigan' song of 1896? Everything goes back to a statement by Sandburg, but the song of that date hasn't been found yet.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 05:23 PM

Well it's great to hear about the valley. Thank you Burke and ReeBop. What a pity it's not bright after all.
Thank you Dale for giving us a singable version with the "Bright Mohawk Valley" in it. We'll sing it while the mystery unfolds. Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 08:23 PM

The footnote in Rise Up Singing gives a bit of info:

"Here's a switch; apopular song that evolved into a folksong. James Kerrigan wrote a sentimental piece 'Ih the Bright Mohawk Valley' in 1896. Pioneers picked up the song, simplified it and changed the locale to the Texas Panhandle. In Fireside Book of Folksongs, Songfest,Folksong Encyclopedia VI, and Readers' Digest 'Family Song Book."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 04:36 PM

Walking Eagle, thank you. My True-love thought he saw a reference to The Mowhawk Valley in a Readers' Digest publication. Don't know where it takes us.
By the way I saw a walking eagle just the other day. A beautiful BIG Wedgetail scavenging by the roadside. Bunjil was the name given to the Wegdgetail Eagle by the Aboriginals in this area. Joy

Subject: Lyr Add: BRIGHT LAUREL VALLEY (from B L Lunsford)
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

BRIGHT LAUREL VALLEY

I have waited a long time my darling,
For the word you never would say,
But alas, my poor heart it is breaking,
For they say you are going away.

Then consider a while ere you leave me.
Do not hasten to bid me adieu,
But remember the bright Laurel Valley,
And the girl who has loved you so true.

Bascomb Lamar Lunsford, 1921. He also used the title Sherman Valley (as did a Miss Hardin, 1922).
From Brown, North Carolina Folklore, vol. 5, The Music of the Songs, p. 185-186. Joe Offer has the volume with the rest of the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 05:20 PM

There is a recording with "Bright Little Valley."

Riley Puckett and Hugh Cross sing "Red River Valley" on the Record Lady, Archives p. 9. Several others also can be downloaded; Marty Robbins, etc. Record lady

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 05:20 PM

Think we might do a composite version. Pity to ignore some good bits from the many versions. I still prefer "Red River Valley" so far, probably because I first heard it that way as a child. It's harder to sing now, without breaking down, than it used to be.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 08:22 PM

Joybell,

I prefer The Bright Mohawk Valley myself. I lived in the Albany NY area for a year and I would like to find more songs about that area. I was thinking that you might contact the New York State Historical Society. I don't have a web address, but a few emails sent to the archives division with information from the above posts might get you somewhere. The SUNY libraries might be of help (State University of New York). There is one in Stoney Brook, Albany and some other places. Check their library holdings catalogue. These websites often have an 'Ask the reference librarian' blue clickie that you can use to ask about the song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:24 AM

Thanks Walking Eagle. We often sing "The Erie Canal" which is about your area, of course. My husband was American born and he learned it at school. We knew it from school books in Australia too. The harmonies are great. Joy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST,John Garst
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 04:11 PM

I have a photocopy of the sheet music, "In the Bright Mohawk Valley" (1896).

Except for punctuation, capitalization, and a couple of other things mentioned below, the text given above by GUEST,Dale -- Date: 12 Feb 04 - 12:12 PM -- is the same as that in the original sheet music for "Mohawk Valley."

The other things:

(1) The "stanza" beginning "For the sake of the Past" is, in fact, the chorus in the sheet music. The chorus comes after the second and fourth stanzas.

(2) In the stanza beginning "Do you thing of the valley you're leaving?" the third line is "Have you thought of the heart, so lonely," instead of "Have you thought of the true heart so lonely" ("true" is a later addition that does not appear in the original).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 07:59 PM

John Garst, Who is the holder of the sheet music? A public institution?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: open mike
Date: 17 Apr 09 - 08:21 PM

great to see the posts from the mudcats
who have shared so much in the past,,,
Walking Eagle, Masato, et al.

There is a Red river in Canada, too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST,Ian Hammond
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:21 AM

I've been looking for a facsimile of the sheet music, without success.
Is the melody of "In The Bright Mohawk Valley" the same as "Red River"?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 28 Dec 09 - 12:24 PM

John Garst says he has a facsimile; holder of original not named.
He has posted his email as [e-mail]. He is Prof. Chemistry emeritus at Univ. Georgia; try contacting him about the melody.

Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE BRIGHT MOHAWK VALLEY (J Kerrigan)
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Jun 10 - 09:23 AM

IN THE BRIGHT MOHAWK VALLEY
Words and Music By James J. Kerrigan
As Sung By John W. Rice
Published by Howley, Haviland & Co, 40 East 20th St, New York
Copyright MDCCCXCVI by Howley Haviland & Co.    (1896)
Melody extremely close to "traditional" melody we all know.
Reprint available from PD Info (www.pdinfo.com) for $4 + $1 shipping

VERSE:
Oh they say from this valley you're going,
We shall miss your sweet face and bright smile,
You will take with you all the sunshine
That has gladdened our hearts for a while.
I have waited a long time time my darling,
For those words that your lips ne'er would say,
Now, the hope from my heart has departed,
And I'm told you're going away.

CHORUS:
For the sake of the Past, do not leave me,
Do not hasten to bid me adieu!
Oh, remain in this bright Mohawk Valley,
With the fond heart that lives but for you.

VERSE:
Do you think of the valley you're leaving?
Oh, how dreary 'twill be when you go,
Have you thought of the heartk, so lonely,
That has loved you and cherished you so.
Tell me not that our lives must be severed,
Give me back, love, the smile once so dear,
Oh! this valley would lose all it brightness,
If its fairest of flow'rs were not here.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST,VFR
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 08:54 PM

Here's the version I've heard:

"That ever there could be such a longing,
    In this part of a poor maiden's breast,
For you know that my heart will be breaking,
    As you take the long trai to the West."

"Come and sit by my side, if you love me.
    Do not hasten to bid me Adieu.
Remember the bright Mohawk valley,
    And the maid who has loved you so true."

The context was the Loyalists, the Tories loyal to King George, leaving the German Flats area in New York, after the Declaration of American Independence and @ a year before the battle at nearby Oriskany. Likely a very young English Colonial Tory leaving an Indian girl; heading west towards Niagra and ultimately Canada.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 07 Nov 10 - 09:20 PM

My! That does push the context back.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST,Zeeb
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 10:30 PM

I live near the Mohawk Valley. It occurs to me that it's grey here now because of that fellow who left with his smile and took the bright sunshine away.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: In the Bright Mohawk Valley
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Apr 21 - 06:11 AM

James Kerrigan wrote a song in 1896 Bright Mohawk Valley. This is how I came to know the song: James collected songs for folks to sing and play be heart because there was no recording back then. His birth and origins are not clear but his songs have stories behind them. He worked and became friends with other song collectors and writers. For example J.S. Forswick and his song Aura Lea has become and standard in its own right and been used for many other settings to the 1886 tune. Bright Mohawk Valley is not well known though. In its day neither was James Kerrigan. Does anyone know more about this song's history and also the 1925 Riley Puckett interpretation? I also know that other folks have recorded the 1896 James Kerrigan version.