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BS: Flying with instruments...

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kitchen piper 10 Feb 04 - 10:45 AM
harvey andrews 10 Feb 04 - 10:51 AM
kitchen piper 10 Feb 04 - 10:55 AM
Catherine Jayne 10 Feb 04 - 10:56 AM
GUEST,Sarah 10 Feb 04 - 11:02 AM
Dave Bryant 11 Feb 04 - 07:28 AM
RichM 11 Feb 04 - 07:38 AM
Rapparee 11 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM
Dave Bryant 11 Feb 04 - 09:49 AM
wysiwyg 11 Feb 04 - 02:12 PM
Big Mick 11 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM
wysiwyg 11 Feb 04 - 02:23 PM
Sorcha 11 Feb 04 - 03:29 PM
Roger the Skiffler 12 Feb 04 - 04:14 AM
GUEST,Philippa 17 May 08 - 11:33 AM
frogprince 17 May 08 - 11:44 AM
Anne Lister 17 May 08 - 01:14 PM
GUEST,Philippa 30 Jun 08 - 02:36 PM
Claymore 30 Jun 08 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,lox 01 Jul 08 - 05:53 AM
GUEST 01 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM
Lox 01 Jul 08 - 03:06 PM
Bert 01 Jul 08 - 04:06 PM
EBarnacle 01 Jul 08 - 07:29 PM
The Fooles Troupe 02 Jul 08 - 12:11 AM
nickp 02 Jul 08 - 05:36 AM
Charley Noble 02 Jul 08 - 01:06 PM
Rapparee 02 Jul 08 - 01:12 PM
McGrath of Harlow 02 Jul 08 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,lox 02 Jul 08 - 05:32 PM

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Subject: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: kitchen piper
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:45 AM

Hi!
This weekend I flew to Glasgow using Ryanair to get my pipes serviced.
Between two of us we had two sets of bagpipes and a guitar (in solid hard case). I decided on the way back that I'd put one set of pipes in the hold to keep the guitar company. So we duly trudged up to the plane with cases and sorrowfully handed them over. The lady that took them plonked them down on the tarmac next to the conveyor and waved me on. I refused, saying "I'm waiting for my pipes and the guitar to be put on the conveyor, I'd like to see them loaded, please". The lady, said, "no they are going on last". To which I replied that "I am not leaving my pipes on the tarmac" to which I was stearnly told "get on the plane or I will offload you". What could I do, I boarded the plane and was lucky enough to be able to watch my pipes eventually being slung on the conveyor from the window.

As I walked up the steps to board the plane I asked the hostess, "I have just walked a set of bagpipes and a guitar to the plane, where do I wait to get them off when we land?" the hostess helpfully replied that I would be able to get them off the carouselle. When I pointed out that I had just walked the instruments to the hold and that I expected to pick them up from the hold, she said "if there is no-one around I'd just have to get them off the carouselle". I tried to tell her how stupid this was and that I was not allowing my pipes on the carouselle, but in the end had to just walk away, what can you do?

So on landing I stood by the plane and got the other hostess to fetch my pipes from the bagage handlers, this was the only waythey could actually stop me going over to the handlers myself.

You can be sure I just won't bother telling the check in lady again that I have bagpipes, when you see the way they throw the bagage around!!! They also point out that once you hand over your bag, they hold no responsibilty for it, so if they do break it, it's tough!

>sigh< Rant over, I feel better now. I had to get that off my chest before complaining about their rude bagage handlers and hostesses!

:-?
Vicki


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: harvey andrews
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:51 AM

Oh yes. I've had the neck of my guitar broken three times by airlines.
I once saw a unique long knecked banjo in case dropped from a hold to the waiting arms below. Needless to say it hit the tarmac end on and the neck broke. The owner saw it too. It took three of us to stop him committing murder!


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: kitchen piper
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:55 AM

It just makes you want to cry!


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 10:56 AM

We flew Easyjet to Ireland for the Loughstock Gathering the other weekend. I was not once asked what my hand luggage was but I was asked if I had anything to put in the hold to which I replied "no". My fiddle is in a large rectangular case and fitted in the overhead lockers easily. MudGuard kept making comments about my 6 pieces of hand luggage which I think was really 3 but hey! My advice to you is to always take your instruments in the cabin. Most airlines have a policy that says that instruments are classed as additional hand luggage if they fit in the over head lockers. I would never put an instrument in the hold unless it had a very strong case!


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST,Sarah
Date: 10 Feb 04 - 11:02 AM

BA have a message on their website about refusing to fly fragile items including musical instruments in the hold. Seems to say you can have them in the cabin if you ask permission (and pay a fee if they are large). Sounds better than it used to.
Cheers
Sarah


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 07:28 AM

The other year I flew back from Glasgow (Prestwick) to Stansted with Ryanair. I had checked my guitar in as FRAGILE and had the special label attached. I expected the guitar to be brought to me by hand - as it had been at Prestwick on the way up. Instead, it appeared on the conveyor in the middle of the carouselle - neck first, from where I had to watch it slide down a steep shute and hit a stop at the bottom - still head first. Thank god that I had bought myself a Hiscox case just before the journey and my guitar appears to be none the worse. When I tried to make a complaint, I was told that there was no-one available with the authority to make it to at that time of night. It makes you wonder what would happen if there was a plane crash or similiar emergency - "Sorry sir we won't be able to put out the fire or rescue passengers until the day shift come on !"

More recently I have flown with my small "Art & Lutherie" guitar. This is in a 3/4 size soft case, and I have had no difficulty taking it as hand baggage.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: RichM
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 07:38 AM

All airlines are uncaring and arrogant about luggage.
There's nothing that I can do about this; except that I vow to support the development of new high speed ground transportation!

Not an entirely satisfactory solution, but.....


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:20 AM

With a wicked grin...

This gives you a perfect opportunity to leave the instruments you treasure at home and buy new ones at your destination! Then you can SHIP them home after the gig and no SO can say "Boo!" about it.

Of course, if something happened to my axe I'd be horribly pissed off.... That trumpet is even older than I am and still blows sweet and cool. There is a concept in US law called "reasonable care."


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 09:49 AM

There have been many previous threads on this subject - try

Here
Here
Here
Here.

I seem to remember a thread where somebody gave a reference to a form which you could try and get signed by the airline agreeing to their duty of reasonable care.


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Subject: RE: BS:
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 02:12 PM

Flying with instruments... wings work better.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 02:20 PM

I think I will use this as an opportunity to make a point. I constantly hear my fellow musicians decry baggage handlers and asking the question of how do they safeguard their "beloved" instruments. The answer is to save with the same tenacity and ingenuity you had when you bought the instrument, so that you can purchase the appropriate travel case. I had a Seagull that I absolutely adored. Some of the great players that I know would comment on what a wonderful sound and action it had. I loved it more than I can tell you, but never thought it was worth purchasing a Calton case for. Would that I could do that over!! Same with my Uilleann Pipes.

The airline rules aren't going to change. Sometimes you are lucky with carryon, and sometimes you aren't. If the instrument at hand is that important to you, buy the right case. If not, quit complaining about what happens.

Mick


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Subject: AFM Instr Carry On Form for Planes
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 02:23 PM

FIND FORM HERE AT American Federation of Musicians site. Also insurance, border info.

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Sorcha
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 03:29 PM

Maggie is going in the overhead if at all possible. If not, Mr. is bringing her back home and I'll borrow one.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 04:14 AM

I'll be accompanying Herself to Edinburgh on a work trip next month. She suggests I take the washboard. Apparently I have to carry it to the boarding steps and place it 6" in front of the 'plane's nose wheel and BA will do the rest. Should I trust her advice?

RtS


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Subject: RE: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:33 AM

why "BS"??
last year I took fiddle in lightweight case on board Ryanair as my handluggage (despite length). didn't pay extras. I was going between England and Ireland.
what are other peoples' experiences? Should I anticipate problems carrying a violin on a Ryanair flight this summer?


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: frogprince
Date: 17 May 08 - 11:44 AM

Yes, the last post beat me to noting that this probably should be "upstairs". When I saw it in BS, my first thought was that it was about piloting a light plane by instrument.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Anne Lister
Date: 17 May 08 - 01:14 PM

Reprising Mick's comments above from four years back: if a baggage handler tries hard enough, they can even damage a Calton case. It happened to me. The guitar inside wasn't damaged, miraculously, but the insurance company paid up for a replacement Calton case.

Anne


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 02:36 PM

Last year I carried my fiddle as cabin luggage on Ryanair flights to/from Ireland/Britain - despite their stated policy and although the fiddle is longer than cabin luggage should be. I want to try again but I always worry as I use quite a light weight case (light enough to pass as cabin luggage). what are other people's recent experiences?

and why is this topic designated BS where far less people will look at it?


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Claymore
Date: 30 Jun 08 - 09:09 PM

Big Mick's advice is still the best. I have traveled back and forth from Baltimore/New York to Ireland and Great Britain for some forty years with an old Vega F-5 long neck banjo and have never had a problem.
This travel has also included one of the worlds largest bodhrans (Mick knows), a Martin K-2, and assorted autoharps. Part of the secret is getting a good case and the second is in packing the instrument in its case.

Example of long-neck: The vast majority of any string instrument damage comes from side to side jerking, and not fore and aft. Every long neck case, including Carltons, has a mjor flaw in that they only support the neck at one and (special-ordered) two places on the neck. And in many cases this support does not keep the head of the instrument from striking the side of the case. Thus when the case is dropped, most likely on its side bumpers, the neck get broken near the first support. Remember the neck has been built to take fore and aft shock, since that is the direction the stings pull.

You should be able to fill an instrument case with socks and underwear to insulate the neck from any sideways movement..

Look at your current case, and once you remove the instrument, the result is an I.Q. test. If it's a banjo, have the hooks and ring holders worn a smooth spot in the fuzzy felt on the side opposite the handle? Look at the top; do you see evidence of where the foam inserts and fuzz touch the strings and go through to touch the fingerboard? Is the first place of contact the (GASP!) bridge? If some of these things can be fixed using some form of insert, use hard felt covered with moleskin or an adhesive softer felt, and NOT SPONGE ANYTHING, EVER! (Sponges, including the natural ones, can mate with the varnish finish of your instrument and wrinkle it) If you must, put the sponge in an anklet sock and ball it in next to the neck. Also loosen the strings as they may end up transmitting shock to the nut or the bridge. Once you are done, try and move the head of your instrument side to side as well as from the bottom or top of the case. If you can; you are not done.

This advice is as true for other instruments as it is for banjos… Your current case will tell you what you must do; not only for the airport, but for normal traveling about town, (or fighting your way out of a bar…)

Good Luck!


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 05:53 AM

If you have a double bass, standard procedure is to buy it its own ticket and stick it on the seat next to you.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 02:28 PM

re the fiddle, if I put it in a more solid case it will be too heavy to go as cabin luggage so I definitely wouldn't get away with that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Lox
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 03:06 PM

I once bought a double bass in Mexico for the equivalent of £70 which had fat nylon strings.

I wrapped it in vain in a few scraps of cardboard and stuck a few "fragile" stickers on it for good measure.

Miraculously it arrived in perfect condition at the other end.

I wouldn't have dreamed of doing that with a more expensive instrument though.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Bert
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 04:06 PM

If you can't afford an expensive case, use any hard case and pack the guitar tighly around with your spare clothes and underwear.

I have shipped a guitar safely in just a cardboard box packed like that. If you pack it well enough that you can throw it downstairs then it should survive most package handling equipment.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: EBarnacle
Date: 01 Jul 08 - 07:29 PM

Try this. Present a form to the check in clerk at the airport. The form will state:
    Inasmuch as I have been advised that the instrument enclose in the case before me is valuable and fragile, I have temporarily set aside the policy which states that such instruments must travel as checked luggage. If I or my supervisor is unable to do so, I recognize that liability limits are not valid in this situation and, if the airline will not waive these limits, I accept personal liability in the event of damage to said instrument.

If you make it look official enough, you might actually get what you want.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 12:11 AM

"I wrapped it in vain in a few scraps of cardboard and stuck a few "fragile" stickers on it for good measure.

Miraculously it arrived in perfect condition at the other end."

Lox - that only works because you used "Murphy's Law" - and they thought it was insured for far more than its value... :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: nickp
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 05:36 AM

Thankfully my mandolin will go in the overheads, however it still has a calton case...


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Charley Noble
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 01:06 PM

When my banjo case was most recently trashed (the banjo inside was fine being cushioned with soaks and underwear) I was disgusted because the baggage room supervisor had no form to register a complaint to the airline, only referring me to the airline website. She also refused to disclose her name.

Some expression of empathy or regret would also have been appreciated but was not forthcoming.

The other problem with checking your instrument down below is it may go astray as you travel. This happened twice on my trip to Australian, once on the way over where it hid somewhere in Philadelphia and once when I was traveling in-country and it took a side-trip to Tasmania. My banjo now has more flight miles than I do!

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: Rapparee
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 01:12 PM

If I were going to, say, Getaway and I wanted my trumpet to go as well I'd probably ship it on ahead to some responsible person.

I do not trust airlines.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 01:48 PM

She also refused to disclose her name. Normal practice seems to be for staff to have name tabs issued which they are supposed to wear on their lapels. It sounds as if she'd removed hers, which would open her to disciplinary procedures.


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Subject: RE: BS: Flying with instruments...
From: GUEST,lox
Date: 02 Jul 08 - 05:32 PM

McGrath,

It frustrates me to say that Normal practice nowadays seems to be that businesses are becoming more and more unaccountable.

They probably do have a complaints department ... in bangalore ... where some young upwardly mobile achiever gets paid to listen to Abusive Bile that no Brit would consider acceptable.

The British Bile dump. Right next to the new nuclear waste dumps (probably)


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