glasgow or scottish pub songs

Subject: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 12:47 AM

hello My name is eddi reader.. you can call me edna... Thank you boab for helping me find this place....
I am looking for a glasgow pub song...(as my mum calls it), with the title 'WHEN I LEAVE AULD GLESGA BEHIND'.

My grandfather Big Dan from Ruchill used to sing it every new year and I remember being thrilled by its melody.

He passed and this song has disappeared with him... we have a couple of verses but there are more and I wondered If anyone in this club knows of the song or where I might find it and others like it.

this is long but I am new and I wanted to tell you who I am...... I noticed discussion about my abilities as a folk singer... My credentials in 'FOLK' if its needed here are:.... age 17 as a council estate girl, knowing NOTHING of my own culture, but with a love of song and singing, discovering Irvine folk club...(The only other place for the youth to go would have been AMANDAS WET T-SHIRT night, So I was blessed that there was a folk club scene to teach me how to comunicate more valid and authentic songs than the POP music of the time).Mudcat Member BOAB gave me my first floor spot.. I also began going to the more Trad kilmarnock folk club where I learned my first 'proper' folk song..THE BLACKSMITH.
Between the years of 17 and 21 visiting folk festivals and clubs in scotland meeting and befreinding HAMISH IMLACH who taught me how to handle audiences.. Archie Fisher was a BIG influence as was CHRISTY MOORES sister, who sang songs I shall never forget at Inverness folk festival. I became the first/only young female busker in Glasgow,(the only other guys on Sauchiehall st were the harmonica player at BOOTS THE CHEMIST and the blind accordian player down the street...) my pitch was British Home Stores corner and one saturday I earned fifty pounds in a half hour...lucrative... til my aunty saw me and told my mum who promptly stopped me doing it.
I moved to london and looked up JONAH JONES a contact who Hamish had put me on to.
Did my first london floor spot in the HALF MOON PUTNEY 1981 when Jonah was running the club there. Saw Bert Jansch play amongst others.
Visited my first Cambridge folk festival where I sung all night everynight.
I took myself and guitar to france to busk because the folk music clubs were dying and I had nothing I wanted to do in the 'BUSINESS' of music.. I HATED the pop music of the time and in france we formed folk bands that played songs I had learned from the folk clubs I had visited. EG. Matty groves , ae fond kiss, Lord Franklin, The lowlands of holland,... and by the way .. sorry to the man who says I got the words of trad songs wrong.. I only learned them as they passed through the throats of others...I thought that was the oral tradition.. but, please I would love you to tell me which lines I have sung which dont make sense and I will explain EXACTLY what they mean. Or I will apologise for being young, nervous and wrong....
Then I came home from france in '83 and all the clubs seemed quiet. I got a job singing backup for a punk band ... which lead to london again... more sessions with signed bands, which lead to me learning about microphones and harmony work, which lead to meeting like minded people, which lead to a pop hit... in a band which I insisted stuck to acoustic instruments and played everything LIVE. It folded because people where more interested in being pop stars than playing music.
I went to Ireland and recorded my first solo album on which I tried to use instrumentation that was a bit more folkie and rootsy...using the likes of ewan and peggy sons neill mac coll and calum.
That was thirteen years ago and since then I have made albums where I tried to not stray from the acoustic ... only one album let me down and that was a big expencive production number the record co said they wanted or I was to hit the high road... they were wrong.
Finally in february 2003 I get the call I have been longing for, the ROYAL SCOTTISH ORCHESTRA want me to play three Burns songs with them. I worried because I know what traditionalist can be like and I know what classicists can be like.
Yes my voice isnt stuck in a classical soprano and yes I mess around with chord shapes ... but, I was inspired by everyone I have ever heard sing those songs. I knew that I was being honest, when I sung those songs, everyone of them ripped my heart open and I promise you no-one can say to me that I dont love folk song, community singing or the passing on of the information. I had a Pop hit... but nothing has satisfied me as much as walking with my darling robert through these words of his. He brought me home. Just because I sung an acoustic 'country blues' song and it became a hit does not mean I am not an authentic singer from the west coast of scotland who uses her cultural inheritance to belong to and be owned by the songs of that area.

so... anyway... does anyone know the words to WHEN I LEAVE AULD GLESGA BEHIND... SHEESH!!

KEEP MUSIC ALIVE

I will never rant again

love eddi reader

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 01:11 AM

Boab perhaps forgot to tell you that he had started a thread on the subject a few days ago and that the question had been answered. You can see it here:

When I leave old Glasgow Behind--lyrics?

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 01:21 AM

thank you malcom... no we have those verses and I didnt know boab had got them from here.. thanks..
there are a couple of other verses to do with GLASGOW CROSS and CITY SLICKERS...
My mother is convinced of that.
I was singing it to GIBB TODD at celtic connections and we are determined to find someone who has all the lyrics
so we can maybe sing it at next years celtic club... just a little fun.
x

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 01:30 AM

I am also looking for other glasgow pub songs... I did one called THE GLASGOW BARRALANDS which I remembered from a weilding workmate of my dads. He was singing it one drunken payday/night when my dad used to bring home the whole work floor. My dad happened to have a PHILLIPS reel to reel recorder.. and although the microphone got lost around 1967 we have the tapes still and on it was some of the parties and the songs. I remembered the song from the tape.. but there are big chunks missing now.
Its weird when you realise that if you dont grab it and collect it the song will disappear... makes me sad.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Jim McLean
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 04:53 AM

Edna, I wrote a song called The Barras ..'There's a spot in Glesga City that's weel kennt the hale world owre....'
If that's it let me know.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM

As the pedantic old curmudgeon referred to in the first post, I should point out that my opening remark re Eddi was to the effect that she is a fine singer. I have my own views on how some songs should be sung, but respect the right of everyone to have a different opinion.

wr.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 11:46 AM

OK... I tried to post this earlier before the whole thing blew up..

Welcome to the Mudcat, Eddi.

Jim McLean is characteristically modest, and I'll therefore blow his trumpet for him.
The song about the Barras he wrote is the one with the chorus
"The Barras, oh the Barras, They're no in Rome or Paris..."
That might be the one you're looking for.

In addition Jim wrote "The Glencoe Massacre" aka "Cruel was the Snow"
and "Smile In Your Sleep" aka "Hush, hush"
I think apart from Burns, I've heard more Jim McLean songs wrongly described as "Traditional" than any other writer. That has to be a tribute to the timeless way that Jim has with a tune and a lyric.

As for the other one, 'WHEN I LEAVE AULD GLESGA BEHIND' - I'll see if anyone of the regulars from the Café Source singing sesh can recall it.

Cheers


Steven

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 11:58 AM

And I apologise for making a mess of my HTML tags - which is why the italics are all over the bloody place....

corrected - jc

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 01:04 PM

Of interest here may be "Glasgow Broadside Ballads: Glasgow

On the home page, a watercolor of The Trongate shows "Hawkie," a well-known ballad-seller of his day.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 03:38 PM

Well you can't say that you don't find good company on Mudflap.

'Here's a health to the company, likewise to my lass
May we drink and be merry all out of one glass'

Welcome to our wacky world, Eddi/Edna

John

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Strupag
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 05:05 PM

Hi Eddi
Jings it's really Eddi Reader!
Welcome to Mudcat. Have you heard Blair Douglas's song which starts "Glasgow and Cotton, Long Forgotten". I can't remember the title but it's on his "Beneath the Berret" album. The song is just crying out for you to sing it.
Anyway it's not really a pub song but "Doon in the Wee Room" is.
The Glasgow bands usually did a chorus in French when they sang it. I believe that the pub still exists in Springburn.
I will print the words out if you are interested but right now I'm using a slow mobile phone link
Slainte
Andy Mitchell

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 05:36 PM

hey Strupag that Blair song sound amazing ... and right up my street... I have been messing around with Edith Piaf songs for years ... another street singer who 'grabbed' song from other street singers... so the french chorus stuff mixed with the Glasgow sounds really made for me.
And as for mr jim Mc lean... WOW! Cruel is the Snow has to be one of my favorite ever melodies ... I would love a wee shot at that... and the BARRAS THE BARRAS, THEIR NO IN ROME OR PARIS..... fantastic!!
so how do I get to hear all those tunes... ?
Cruel is the snow I kinda know to sing the chorus but not really the verses ...In fact this year I read a great book SCOTLANDS STORY and for the first time I got the full horrendous tradegy that was the Glencoe massacre... It was this time of year eh? I felt like driving up and laying flowers.
I cant believe those soldier befreinded those poor souls, eating with them, playing sports with them, dancing with them, for weeks before slaughtering them in their beds.
terrible.
anyway Great to have a folk support group
ha ha
edna
xx

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 06:46 PM

Oh well, I suppose I better crawl out of the slime that I inhabit,and do a bit of grovelling.
What can I say Edna,other than very welcome to the Mudcat,and thanks for your fine post.
You seem a nice down to earth lassie so youll get on fine with all the bam pots here.
Were all a bit long in the tooth and can be a bit cranky,but we love the music deeply ..maybe too deeply to bear the evolution.
Looking forward to some bliddy good arguments ,Best wishes ... Ake

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 07:33 PM

thank you akenaton.... aye, you got me going there...but it takes a guid man to address it... You're a folkie...probably with a heightened awareness of whats horsefeathers and whats not... MOST of the music industry is HORSE something else never mind feathers.... I love the honesty of folk music and the people who love it too are usually incredibly protective of the genre if only for a place to express yourself without playing the marketing mans game. So I understand why.. but it must be accepted that if making a 16 year old 'get' ae fond x so that he or she has some soundtrack to mend their broken hearts with without feeling that its a language they have no relationship with I really feel Burns would have encouraged me.... I had to DRAG , no joke, my cousin Maureen o hara (70's disco queen, mother of three,), to my concert in Glasgow this year because ... I will quote:
'NAW ... AM NO COMIN' I hate Burns and I hate Strings'... at the end she left stunned and really loved it all, she didnt realise he wrote some of the songs I sung.. she hadnt really ever 'heard' them... THATS why I wanted to do it more than anything... I always felt he was from the likes of me but the impression we have while growing up is that he was a property of the highbrow and elitist.... but he wasnt... he was ours... as ours as johnny lydon.. or a young bob dylan.
I also agree DICK GAUGHAN is thee voice of Burns. Although at christmas in Georges square I met an old work mate of my da's and he recited A MANS A MAN into my ear over a pint.... never heard it better.
x
bless you

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 07:37 PM

Edna

Do you know that Edith Piaf took her stage name after she appeared at the Glasgow Empire?

Apparently she sung a song in French and the call came from the audience "Hey Edith...Pee Aff".

Glasgow Empire --- No turn goes unstoned!!!

It's true. It was in the Daily Record once.

Welcome to Mudcat. Loved your interpretation of Burns. Don't be a stranger.


Davebhoy

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: akenaton
Date: 13 Feb 04 - 07:56 PM

Aye Edna I think youve got smeddum right enough...Good luck to you.
Regarding Rabbie,study his life and work,he knew what was important in life and what was horse feathers.   He knew life was short and should be lived to the full. Tae hell wi conventions,hope you do likewise.
Rod Paterson is my personal favourite singer of Burns songs,(yourself excluded)....Ake

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 04:33 AM

hey ake....
I got this book... amongst others... called TINDERHERT by HUGH DOUGLAS ... made Rab Mossgiel more real than anything else i have ever read.

stories of how he tied his hair back in the small and uneffected world of Mauchline 1780.. kinda like eliza carthy and her peircings and purple hair. How some lasses widna dance wi him:

'fur he wis that sarcastic ye dinae ken wit he wid say next'.....

I discovered how he would express himself by pinning his comedic parodies of the local characters on trees in mauchline green, where they would be found by the locals, passed round and copied, then read out with gut holding laughter, the last person to read them was usually the subject matter, eg: Death and Dr Hornbrook... all about his mate, the local grocer who made disgusting home 'cures' for all kinds of ailments. It took rabbie to turn up with his talent to show Mauchline first, then the rest of us, how ridiculous we all were and they loved him for it..
The whole spirit of this guy has swallowed me whole... that was why I ended up singing an albums worth, he kinda made me do it.

My favorite story of his is this one:

Robert was heading into town with his dog to meet with his pals and oggle the lassies on the green as usual, maybe debate a little about the french and their revolutionaries, or how they would love a wee tumble in the hay wi wan o they Mauchline Belles.
He dressed well, and as usual tied his hair back, something he thought he invented.... no other fellow in town did that with their hair and at the dancing the previous night the boys were admiring the style.
Father William couldnt abide the fact the rab loved the dancing. He worried and argued with his son about it alot.
The local clergy had berated william on his sons behaviour too many times.
Robert heart was a bit too arrogant and proud for their liking.
Not only was the dancing every night a problem, but also robert spent too much time 'rhymin' and 'debating' and falling in love for William to be convinced the farm would be in safe hands.

This morning , however, robert and his dog climbed the steep incline into Mauchline town, only for his path to be crossed by three of the local ministers coming down the hill, they noticed this young punk who had the cheek! not to humble himself in their company. As they passed the whistling boy and his dog, they stopped and remarked:

"And where do you think YOU are going young man?!?"

to which Rab replied (without returning their gaze or faultering his step):

"oh! As you can see sir, I'm going Heavenward!"

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 07:44 AM

This song featured in a musical at Glasgow's Pavilion Theatre (don't know when). Johnny Beattie and Alistair McDonald were in it: if you have the means of contacting either they might help.

Oh, and belatedly welcome, Edna, to this extremely wise and helpful forum.

wr

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 09:14 AM

Hi Edna, welcome to Mudcat. I said before you joined, honest, that you did a great job with Auld Lang Syne on the bbc tv Burns night in'92. Still got in on video. Bye the way, Mike Scott did a great "Man's a Man" on that show, the best ever Burns tribute.

Hey and lay off weerover, he may be a curmudgeon but he's not that old!

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 10:23 AM

Tim,

It was meself, not Edna, that used the words "old" and "curmudgeon", but thanks for the kind words.

wr.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Folkiedave
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 02:59 PM

Eddi,

Welcome to wacky world of Mudcat - it seems (I am glad to say) you are amongst friends!!

Regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 11:32 AM

Edna,
For lots of Glasgow songs buy for £4.99 from Glasgow Libraries the book One Singer One Song I wrote for them in 1990, still on sale.
By the way, did you ever sing in the 1980s with Dave Dick in the blues group Pigmeat? Someone recently told me that was you. If so, we've jammed together outside the Kelvin Hall.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 01:17 PM

Edna
If you really are Eddi Reader next time you sing "You're welcome Willie Stewart" don't introduce it as a song showing Burns' love of his fellow man as you did on Burns' night. He wrote it when he was pissed off about the warmer welcome given to another guest by the host. Love your voice and the way you sing.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: MartinRyan
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 04:10 PM

EwanMcVicar

Coincidentally, I picked up a copy of your book in a secondhand bookshop in Dublin yesterday! Enjoying it very much so far.

Regards

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 04:37 PM

Martin

Thanks for that. Also look out for Hamish Imlach's autobiography Cod Liver Oil, with many fine tales of wild times in Dublin.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:00 PM

hey guest VAN.... where did you get THAT story.??...
I think you are confused....and I rise to Roberts defence... William Stewart was a factor at Closeburn estate Dumfries who helped Burns out for many years, PARTICULARY, prior to his move to Ellisland where he was building a home for himself and Jean, and Stewart helped him over that move. Burns and Stewart were the greatest of buddies... In fact for enjoying evenings of bawdy song Burns had no closer ally than the loyal and kind Stewart.
Part of this song 'willie stewart' written in dedication to his admiration of his freind was enscribed on a glass tumbler and is in veiw today.
I find it unbelievable that Burns would have been able to write such a lyric for his friend and have any HINT of maliciousness in it.
As an aside the second, slower half of my rendition of Willie was, in fact, verses written in dedication to Willies adolescent daughter POLLY.
In those verses Burns wishes Polly to find a future husband who has the wisdom to know the joy of who he holds in his arms.
Unfortunatly for Polly her future was to be the complete opposite of that.
I have an Idea that you may be mixing that song up with Burns FIRST EVER work of 'poesy'. He was 14 and falling for the teenage girl he was doing the harvest with. The girl was either NELLIE KILPATRICK or more likely to be NELLIE BLAIR. Burns told us the story that he was falling for her and one day she produced a song written to her by a local squires son. In his private jealousy he thought he could do better. He went home and wrote 'HANDSOME NELL'.
But maybe you've been talking to someone who knows better than I. I would love to read that version. It contradicts everything I have ever read.
xx

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM

Van .. you have me intrigued... Is it perhaps a story of Burns being insulted that his good friend WILLIE got snubbed in some bar so Burns being Burns wanted to make his mate feel better by writing those lines in consolation to him?? Is that what the root of that story is?
Either way Burns loved his buddy and that song is a great example of his love for his male friends.

MUDCATS
I think we nearly have cobbled together a decent WHEN I LEAVE AULD GLESGA BEHIND.

DAVEBHOY my maw nearly 'piaffed' hersel when she read your edith story
xx

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 01:14 AM

Hey, Edna---I thocht I kenn't ye ! You surely have gone thro' a "Burns Immersion Course!" Maybe ye'll be the first wumman tae gi'e the "Immortal Memory". I'd really like to hear that! The wee devil's in me tonight, though---hey all Mudcatters!---see yon accordion Eddi used to "play" in "Cheatin' Heart"? ---It wis EMPTY!!! I'll arrive at yer Ma's place one o' these ne'erdays wi' the boax in tow. Great to see you on Mudcat, Edna; come here often!
Boab

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Teresa
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 01:46 AM

Edna, welcome to Mudcat! I admire you for sticking up for yourself; go, girl! I've been curious about your music, and after reading this thread, I'm going to check it out.
Take care,
Teresa

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 04:22 AM

So, Edna, when can we expect to hear you singin some of these "new" songs?

I'll tell you who else has some great Glasgow songs (and some of them are in Ewan's book) - Ian Davison. You can hear some of them online at his own site, (Ian's Own Site ), and in person at the session in Uisge Beatha on Woodlands Road most Sunday evenings.


Cheers


Steven

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Strupag
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 04:38 AM

Hi Edna,
I'm back at the hoose now and here's the words of "Doon in the Wee Room"

"Now if yer tired and weary, feelin' sad and blue
Don't let your cares upset ye 'al tell ye what tae do
Just tak a cor tae Springburn go inta Quin's Pub there
Go doon intae the wee room underneath the stair

For it's doon in the wee room underneath the stair
Everybody's happy everybody's there
And they're all makin' merry each in his chair
Doon in the wee room underneath the stair

A king went a huntin' his fortunes for tae seek
He lost his cor at Partick went missin' for a week
Days and nights they hunted sorrow and despair
They foun' him in the wee room underneath the stair

Fur it's doon in the wee room underneath the stair
Everybody's happy everybody's there
And they're all makin' merry each in his chair
Doon in the wee room underneath the stair

Noo when am gettin' auld and ma bones begin tae set
I'll never worry naw I'll never fret
For I'm savin' up ma pennies tae buy a hurrly chair
Tae tak me tae the wee room underneath the stair

Fur it's doon in the wee room underneath the stair
Everybody's happy everybody's there
Adn they're all makin' merry each in his chair
Doon in the wee room underneath the stair."

Does anyone know if Quins bar still exists?

Andy

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Dita
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 05:23 AM

I also remember edna (?Edwina) as a member of Pigfoot in the 70s.
Diggery Venn -Isobel Glen, Billy Sherry and myself, often played the same West of Scotland folk clubs, doing floor spots at each others gigs.

Last saw Dave Dick at Alistair Robertson's 50th. Dave was on great form, still a great bluesman. He still plays the scotish clus from time to time as part of a duo. He still has some Pigfoot tapes with edna, from way back when.

Cheers, John McCreadie/Dita

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 06:37 AM

John,

I'm sure it was Pigmeat, not Pigfoot, either forerunner or follow-up to the Kelvin Delta Blues Band, and saw Dave Dick several times years later on news broadcasts as a spokesman for the RSPB Scottish division.

wr.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 06:46 AM

Re Quins Bar

Quin's in Sprinburn sat at the narrow corner (gushet) of Balgrayhill Road, and Springburn Road (as was).

It was closed by the time I was old enough to go drinking (the mid 70's), but the premises were still in occasional use (as election premises for political parties, and so on) and I was able to go into the building several times. The main entrance was from Springburn Road, but there was a first floor entrance which led onto what had been an Off Sales and a snug bar of sorts coming in from Balgrayhill Road, which ran down at quite a steep gradient to the corner.

The building is no longer there, and the layout of the roads has obliterated the site.

There is still a Quin's Bar in Bishopbriggs, and I know that at one time they were owned by the same family - but to my shame I have never bothered to go and ask.

Oh - and in Ewan's book, there are several more verses to the song...

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,EWan McVicar
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 07:08 AM

Re Quin's Bar, I've seen the original handwritten lyrics for The Wee Room, including the extra original verses - written by the grandfather of Brendan McLaughlin who just recently relinquished his role as landlord of the Scotia Bar.
His grandfather, Daniel McLaughlin, was the resident bard in Quin's. But lots of singers would rather not know who wrote the song - means I suppose it belongs to everyone.
The tune is apparently sung as Down In The Forest on a Laurel & Hardy film - anyone know which one?

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Dita
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:02 AM

Your right wr,

Pigmeat it was, brain thinking meat, fingers typing foot.

Just got my blues teminology mixed up, "Gimmie a pigfoot ....."

That's also right, Dave's day job was/?is RSPB, and he was often their spokesperson when the BBC was lookong for a quote.

Cheers, John.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:06 AM

Ermm... in yer book, did you not say (or quoted someone else as saying) it was "Way Out West"? Although "Trail of The Lonesome Pine" comes from that one...

I'll ask The Sons Of The Desert....

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 09:17 AM

This will be the third time I've tried to put a message on this post previous two got hung and the system crashed. Welcome Edna (Eddie) I think I started the post about your singing style re the Burns Concert. I can say in mitigation!!! that you were so obviously enjoying yourself and have a genuine love of Burns. Welcome agin and I think you'll find all sorts of support in this forum. By the way I think Ian Bruce is a fine exponent of the bard his Alloway Tales CD is my fave.
Jim

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 01:44 PM

Edna

I have looked at my Burns books and none of them confirm my story. There is always a section in any collection of Burn's poems and songs that gives an explanation of when and ehre and why they were written. I believe that I got my explanation from one of my dad's books. I will yield to your version. Totally unrelated to the thread, but if we're having a chat why not throw it in, I have a book of Burns poems which includes the "Bawdy Ballads" and was given to some one as a Sunday School prize. My own edition of the "Bawdy Ballads" was bought in a dirty book shop in Soho and handed over in a brown paper bag. How's that for tradition. More power to your elbow. If you're ever back in Livingston look me up. I'm not a bad lad just occassionally misinformed.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 02:36 PM

Nope, partner, I don't know which movie.
A Google search says that Way Out West was their only cowboy excursion, but haven't located it there. Maybe John Eaglesham was mistaken about it being Laurel and Hardy?

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 04:18 PM

Dita--I think [though it's aye been "Edna"] that ye may have a "W" too many in the name. Edna will biff me if I'm wrong, but I believe the name is "Edina"--on a Sunday.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 05:25 AM

Edna I had been trying to get my wife interest in Burns for years. It was only when she heard you do Ae Fon Kiss that she started to pay heed. She has just about finished her second CD (first solo) and its on it. She sang it in recently in a hotel in Kilmahog as a guest of our friends Tarneybackle and brought a woman to tears. Such is the power of song.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 06:47 AM

Can I belatedly throw in an extra plug for Ewan's book? I got it as soon as it came out and it is an ideal starter for anyone who wants to start to learn the style and context of a century or so of Glasgow songs.

wr

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Alice
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 09:03 AM

Hi, Edna, and Welcome to Mudcat. I feel a kindred spirit with you after reading your introduction. From a singer of Robert Burns songs way out in the Rocky Mountains....

Alice Flynn in Montana

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 04:34 PM

hey ... I got lost... I went to the forum.. and we had all disappeared... so I thought that was it bye.... then I had a brain breeze and typed in 'glasgow pub songs' into the search... sheesh..
when will this stuff ever get easy...

thanks for the compliments... I have been spending some days doon in Dumfries where I met the AMAZING jane who runs the GLOBE INN .. which, if you dont know is Robert Burns hang out.... its all been preserved and I found his verses to POLLY STEWART scratched into the window of the room he kipped in when he was too steaming to go home...
The bed is there and the same mattress...
Jean says I can sleep a night in it if I go back and sing a couple of songs...
she told me a great story of two wee wumin staring at the Naysmith etching of RB ... one says to the other:
'HO, Would you look at those eyes, wid ye no like him to casserole ye?"
the other one says:
"och! do you not mean CARRESS betty ...? CARRESSSSS!!!"'
the first replys:
'NAW! Casserole... fur a guid two hours'

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 05:17 PM

Eddi, Eddi, Eddi!

I'm so happy you've found your way into our little cat box... I've been a champion here of yours in the past. Been a fan for years -- songs like Kiteflyers, Wings on my Heels, Bell Book & Candle, Follow my Tears, Wolves, Simple Soul, Footsteps Fall, I felt a Soul, and The Girl who fell in love with the Moon are just sublime, and are among my all-time favorites.

While I love the Burns stuff (that concert was brilliant!), I look forward to more contemporary songs from you. And please, please come play in California! We'll get you through January, or any other month.

Oh, and to find your old posts here, just go to the Quick Links at the top right of the forum page, select Old Andanced Forum Search, and type "edna" into the box, and it will bring up every post you've made.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: michaelr
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 05:19 PM

oops -- that should read "Old Advanced Forum Search", of course.

I really must remember to use the Preview feature.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 03:35 AM

Hey Edna---did ye see the Herald "Diary" for Friday? A hilarious anecdote about Matt McGinn. Seems he was fellow-guesting wi' Billy Connolly somewhere, and the "Big Yin" called off at the last minute. Matt was asked to convey the bad news to the audience. He did---
"As you all are aware, the star turn tonight needs nae introduction---the B----rd didnae turn up!" See youse Glesca folk---

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 04:12 PM

Edna ...I was interested to read of your adventures in The Globe Hotel.
In real life Im a builder,and was doing a job for an old boy in Tighnabruiach. After I was finished we got talking about Burns.
The old man took me into his living room and sat me down on an old chair. It had wee shortlegs and a long back. He asked me how it felt to be sitting in Rabbies' chair!!
Apparently his late wife had been descended from Jean Armours family ,and had been left the chair in her grandmothers will.
There was all the provenance to prove the authenticity,so it was the real thing. It was one of the best feelings I ever had to sit in that chair,Ill never forget it.
If you ever get to sleep in that bed,try not tae get intae a stew!!!
Aw ra best Ake...

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Hillheader
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 08:13 PM

Guys

The Banter (new parlance for for Glasgow patter) is wonderful.

An American was trying to hitchhike to London but knew he had no chance from Glasgow city centre so hopped on a bus to the end of the M74 motorway (main route south). Glasgow Zoo was the stop he wanted.

I swear I heard this conversation as the guy came upstairs on the bus.

American:    Can someone tell me where to get off for the zoo?

Local         Aye son. Jistgitaffitthestoapaffourady".
                      (Just get off at the stop before me).

I also heard the following conversation around Hallowe'en last year. A couple standing in front of me in the supermarket.

She says   "goangetapumkinfurraweanshalaeen"
          (Go and get a pumpkin for the childrens' hallowe'en)
Exit him and on return "Rapumkinshelluvawee"
                      (The pumpkin is rather small)
She         "Sowriurr"
            (You are correct)
Davebhoy    "That's a melon mate"
            (What a pair of feckwits)

Also, our office has a notice about the Trade Union AGM. We are in Glasgow, the AGM in Edinburgh. It says "Buses will leave the office at 5pm. Anyone needing transport please write their name below". It's behind a glass panel.

There is also the apochryphal tale of how Burns became our national poet. Apparently on a sojourn to a hostelry he wooed the landlord's daughter. On his return he was met with the greeting "Hoi. You're Bard!".

You do not need take make anything up in Glasgow. Simply keep your eyes and ears open and comedy attack you.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 02:32 PM

Edna
Many a happy hour I've spent in the Globe. As a "doonhamer" it's still a town I enjoy returning to. As a child I had friends who lived at the end of the road Burns lived in and when I was wee I thought somehow he was still there. As I grew older I realised it was just John Cairney I had seen on the telly making his way from the Globe to his home past my friends'house. Still it was a nice thought. When I lived in Annan I bought my fish suppers in the building where Burns wrote The Deil's Awa Wi The Exciseman. How's that for tradition - (being one myself and loving it as much as Burns did).

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 01 Mar 04 - 10:02 AM

hey... anybody any clue why burns didnt publish a third book of poetry and to hang with being an excise man.... nobody i've asked knows....
and hello to montana....
Did anyone see alison kruasse at the oscars singing a song called 'you will be my ain love'.... so proud of our language... it made me sigh..
lovely....it was
x
ps... i aint no edina boab... or edwena... no my first name begins wi an 's'...

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 02:43 AM

Oooooooh Edna!----I realised I'd made a boo-boo right efter I hit the button! I know that your name begins wi' an "S" [see---I gave ye a CAPITAL letter!]. Hope yer Ma disnae biff ma lug for mis-ca'-in' her wee lassie next time I'm over there! [and the saicint letter's an "a"---]
And a wee word to "Guest Van"---I used to travel regularly frae Irvine tae Hexham Northumberland. Being a "fish an' chips connoseur"[sp?] I stopped without fail in Annan---the best fish and chips in the west [or sooth or north!]. A thoosan' curses oan the blackguard who proposed the Annan bypass!
***ps to Edna--have you ever visited the Burns museum in Irvine High Street? If you can catch the caretaker at home, he will be pleased to welcome you. I had the first Kilmarnock edition in my two hands in there. And you'll find an unlikely author sharing the building with Rabbie--Edgar Allan Poe, who attended school for a time in Irvine.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 05:34 AM

hiya boab.... this is a great place huh?
I havent been in to the Irvine place yet... but I was aware of EAP being taught in Irvine... John said that the massive Irvine acadamy dome on the roof inspired the place he writes about in THE PIT AND THE PENDULUM.. I have been gob-smacked at the Irvine that has been revealed to me through my rummaging.... Did you hear the story of LIBERACE turning up at the Kings pub in the high st at 3am? on the invite of the landlord sometime in the late fifties?
It blows my mind that this wee toon was a bigger port than glasgow in its heyday.
xx

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:24 AM

Aye, Edna--your mention of the Liberace visit brings to mind a tale from the late great Chic Murray, who arrived at the hotel door in the wee sma' 'oors just like Liberace. He says 'This trig wee lassie opened the door, and I says 'can I stay here for the night?' an, she says 'Stay there if ye want!'--an' shut the door in ma face"!!
By the way, Edna, there used to be a lassie who lived in Irvine [or Dreghorn?] by the name of Mary Stewart [her Ma used to play fiddle with the Scottish Fiddle Orchestra] , and Mary specialised in Glasgow street songs, mainly of the humorous variety. She married and went to S.E.England to live. Maybe you could get in touch with her thro' Irvine Flok club connections. How about Alison Shaw?--She might know something.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Van
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 05:52 AM

Boab good fish suppers but the best white pudding suppers are to be had in Lockerbie or Hawick. I wholly support your curse on bypasse of thes wee border towns. They are gems and it's a shame people miss them. Still they are there for us to enjoy.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:08 PM

I must try some of those fish suppers in lockerbie...

Boab .. is the Irvine folk club still going.. I know stan robertson passed away... and what about the kilmarnock club?
It was ELENOR SHAW who brought me to the Irvine folk club that fateful night in my late teens.... wednesday I think...
I remember being scared out of my mind to go up to the bar in case someone threw me oot... being just 17... I think I ordered pomaine... ha ha

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: weerover
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:59 PM

Irvine used to have a decent festival (Marymass) in August. In the 1970s I won the Arthur Argo Cup there for traditional singing, engraved as it was with the names of the likes of Dick Gaughan and the aforesaid Mary Stewart. To my eternal shame the trophy wasn't there to present to the following year's winner on the day as I was skint and had no transport until the day after.

wr

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Dita
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:29 PM

Edna,

The reason Burns didn't publish more in his lifetime would, I imagine, be the cost. While people enjoyed his poems, they didn't buy them. Printing not being cheap, the cost of producing a book was raised by subscription.

From 1787 to his death his energies went into James Johnson's "Scots Musical Museum", where he could get the songs he collected, and those he wrote, published at someone else's expense.

By the way, Burns claims in a letter to George Thomson that he collected "Auld Lang Syne", from "an old man's singing."

Kilmarnock folk club is still going strong in the hands of Maggie Macrae. (She also is a driving force behind Girvan Filk Festival).
Irvine was still on the go a few years ago, but i'm not sure about now.

Sorry about missremembering the name, "Somesymers" must have kicked in, either that or I called you by the wrong name for a couple of years, and you were to polite to corret me. Though that dosn't seem likely.

Glad Boab gave out the second letter of your name as being "a" as that rules out Senga.

Cheers,
John McCreadie

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:16 PM

hi john ... I understand he had to raise the printing funds by subscriptions but he had done that successfully before... particularly with the kilmarnock first book...
I know that the Edinburgh book sold well but Burns couldnt get the profit money off the printer.. currie..i think his name was..without a bit of a struggle.
But still, it was a lucrative exercise for him... he made 5OO pounds from the first book... and more from the second.. at a time when the best he could expect from farming would be around 15 pounds a YEAR, and that was the year he tried the more successful flax crop.
Of course the Excise job meant more money per year and a good pension for jean on his death... but still ..
to turn his back on trying to gather subscriptions for what already prooved to be something that 'saved' him, and reaffirmed his destiny as the west of scotland Bard.
I just dont understand it.. and I wonder if there are any writings that I have missed that may explain it to me.
There is letters rejecting money from Thompson...Burns feeling the acceptance of which would demean the muse or something like that...

A little bit like joe strummer maybe...

Maybe its something he decided was not to be turned into 'business'..
I get that... and it makes me admire him more... but all those kids.. all that family to support... Its strange to me that he wouldnt continue..
Auld lang syne... yea I heard he collected it.. and others... but thank God he saved it from obscurity eh?

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 11:13 PM

Hi again, Edna! The folk club at Irvine is still going strong. I was there the first session of 2004 courtesy of a delay in my flight home due to document problems. Michael Marra was the guest that night. Talented writer and performer of comic songs, from Dundee, I believe.
You will be aware [I think?] that for a decade at least, the club was in the Redburn Hotel. It has moved "digs" again to the Golf Hotel on Kilwinning road. This is a more central venue. I see I made another "name blunder". Of course I do mean Eleanor Shaw.

And hi, Weerover--as Edna says this is a wonderful place to be! I too won the Argo trophy--somewhere in the 1980s---singing "Bogie's Bonie Belle". Lost it the year following singing "the Laird o' Cockpen" to Charlie of the Dublin Buskers. Charlie, a great guy, passed away a few years back. I have one of his bodhran tippers, which I cherish in memory of an old friend. [Reviewing!---I didn't sing it to Charlie---I lost the trophy to Charlie!]

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:47 AM

Isaw Dick Gaughan last night Brilliant especialy his rendition of "whislin Winds" He cetainly does it justice.

I am up in Scotland this weekend and going to the Milnathort Festival at the weekend. Never know might go and see Gaughan again.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Big Tim
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 04:40 PM

Is "Whistling Winds" a Burns song?

I know "Raving Winds", recorded by Bobby (great Burns singer) Eaglesham.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 05:42 PM

This thread started as a request for Glasgow songs,and finished as the Eddi Reader fan club...OAP's branch.
If you want Glasgow songs, go to the wee bookshop in Parnie Street and talk to big Adam McNaughtan ...Hes the best writer of Glasgow songs that i know
On his CD "Words", which contains "Oor Hamlet", is a poem called "The wee malkies", one of my favourites, with the real flavour of a 50's Glasgow childhood.....Chilling stuff.
"The Glasgow I used to know " is the definitive Glasgow song , full of warmth and sentiment.....(Just like Edna)....Ake

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:44 PM

Typo Alert, Tim -- it's "Now Westlin' Winds".

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:48 PM

Stephen Mulrine's poem was posted here a few years ago, at  The Coming of the Wee Malkies

Burns called his song Song, composed in August. Since people started calling it Westlin Winds, it hasn't half been misheard by folk...

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Scabby Douglas
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:19 PM

I don't think Adam's shop is there any more - well the shop's there, but I don't think it's Adam's....

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,EdinaDen
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 09:38 AM

Hi Eddie,

A dear weegie friend, with whom I attended your performance in the RCH in Glasgow recently, told me about your messages on here and I just wanted to say Thank Goad you found Rab, and for your voice and expressive style and happy, down to earth personality. Brought the tears tae the een.

After your own experience when young, you can now make sure that today's kids really KNOW about their Bard and that he's FOR THEM.

Sent a copy of your Burns CD to a 83 year old friend of Scots roots in NZ recently. I think he wants to marry you. Is that ok? :-)

EdinaDen

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 04:33 PM

Adam McNaughtan gave up the shop in Parnie St some years back and is now 'selling from home'. Trouble is, I've no idea where his home is! Also, he told me he was on the internet, but I can't find anything via Google. Maybe he just has an eMail address.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: John-S
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 05:01 PM

Susanne,

Try here
He performs with Stramash.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: GUEST,Frank T
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 03:40 PM

Edna, have you had a look at the Matt McGinn website ?www.mattmcginn.info

They have the lyrics of a number of his songs online, with more to come I would imagine. I think you have a wonderful voice and would love to hear you sing Matt's " Depth of My Ego ", "Troubled Waters", "Little Ticks of Time", "Janetta," or hey, one of the really Glaswegian ones like the Gallowgate Calypso.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: edna
Date: 08 Mar 04 - 09:12 PM

i love matt mc ginns 'coorie doon'.... i definatly will check the site out... thanks frank...
and Edinaden, tell that NZ 83 year old he's to order the champange... we might no' marry , but we can have a wee donner roon the dance floor.

Subject: RE: glasgow or scottish pub songs
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 11 Mar 04 - 08:13 PM

Adam McNaughtan was "singer in residence" at the recent "Singers' Gathering" at Howden, Livingston, and gave a couple of very interesting talks interspersed with plenty of songs and a lot of historical stuff about glasgow.
We have him booked for Balerno at the Bowling Club in June, and people are still talking about his last appearance in Balerno a couple of years ago!
TB