UK: Beginner's Session Workshop

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Noreen
Date: 06 May 04 - 09:11 AM

LOL.... 57 posts!!
:0)

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 May 04 - 08:49 AM

57 lbs - that's heavy for a ferret. What do you feed them on?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 06 May 04 - 02:07 AM

yes

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Noreen
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 07:02 AM

per ferret?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 06:14 AM

pounds.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 06:28 AM

57

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 06:20 AM

How much?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 05:03 AM

ferrets.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: joe hill
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 07:40 PM

Good luck to the workshop.
There is a thread I saw about how brilliant the W Clancey week in
Ireland is, which I used to go to and had a great time. What is the Willy Clancey week? Its main thing is a set of workshops to commemorate the man, for which there is a fee for learners to develop and gain confidence and get used to playing with others. The hundreds of sessions developed around them.
Many of the 'students' paying to attend workshops are impressive musicians, so I certainly wouldn't scoff at the idea of fees for lessons. There's always something else to learn and benefit from playing with different people.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: PennyBlack
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 10:53 AM

GUEST:jimi hendrix (sic) - There's no charge at the sessions in Blackpool - and if you will give me your name and come along I will take "The Piss" with pleasure if you need my help (no charge).

N.B. There is a big difference between qualified and capable - not all teachers are good at what they do (this includes music teachers who can't play the instruments they teach) - but many unqualified (without a "Teaching Certificate") musicians are Far more competent.

Maybe you should demand to see some sort of qualification from the acts you go to see at clubs or festivals before you pay to go in.

PB

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,jimi hendrix
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 10:33 AM

Will the Blackpool session be free, or are you going to take the piss and ask for £57 as well? I do not mind paying if the course is led by qualified music teachers, otherwise it should be free.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: s&r
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 10:25 AM

Watch this space - there could be a new additional beginners session in Blackpool/preston area soon

Stu

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 04:03 AM

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Worried
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:23 AM

Is post counselling available ?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: s&r
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 11:18 AM

Slow Session run by Angie Bladen in Chorley. Supported by Folkus

Stu

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Marje
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 02:17 PM

Good luck with the course, it sounds a good idea to me. I run an open music session and we try to be as welcoming to newcomers as we can, but some people do struggle a bit when they find it's all done by ear and that no-one can tell them what's going to happen next. I know there are other people who wouldn't even come to a session because they're afraid of being out of their depth, or feel that maybe everyone else knows things they don't know.

It's pointless telling them, "Just go along and play" because they're not ready for that. The don't know (for instance) which keys are most accessible to other instruments, how many times to play each tune and its repeats, how to find out the names of the tunes and maybe get hold of a recording or the dots, and lots of the other things so sensibly listed in the course details. Sure, some of us have worked those things out for ourselves, but others find the whole thing too intimidating and mysterious.

And why on earth shouldn't a fee be charged? People pay to attend all sorts of music courses. In this instance, what matters is not whether the tutors are qualified music teachers but whether they know their subject as defined in the course details, which I'm sure they do.

It may be that some music sessions will make sure every newcomer is welcome and gets a quick induction into its habits and practices if necessary, but many don't, and can appear cliquey and inaccessible. If a course like this gives others the confidence to come along and have a go, it could be just what some people need. Best of luck! (oh, but do get rid of the music stands...)

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: John Routledge
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 12:14 PM

£57 gets you just under 2.5 hrs of 1:1 cello tuition or a bit more time if you get a teacher who may be less inspirational.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM

I don't think a fee of £57 is to bad for a 2 day course that includes coffee, lunch and accomodation

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 10:17 AM

Raise that with Cottenham Summer School if you're interested, starbright. They fix and collect the fee, and they appoint the tutors, according to Skip's earlier post.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,starbright
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 10:07 AM

This site appears to be concerned more with punctuation then music, with quote ''grammatically challenged trolls'' etc.etc, And one poster being descibed as making ''rather scathing and somewhat unfounded personal remarks'' BUT at the risk of getting my head bitten off, I think that last question is worth an answer, don't you?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Punctuation
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 05:17 AM

Paying for music lessons could hardly be considered as a radical new concept can it folks? My only concern is, are the musicians who are asking for your £57, qualified music teachers, or do they just like themselves a lot?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 04:59 AM

Its not humour at £57

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: tartan babe
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 04:12 AM

C F G
E A D
There you go everybody. That is all you need to know.
Was this humour?
:-?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Bassic
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 01:47 AM

i am avoiding saying absolutely anything controversial in this post in case i spark anything controversial but skipy knows where my sentiments lie and that goes for controversial punctuation as well cos i dont like controversial things but that might be controversial to say that so i wont say any contraversial things any more

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:14 PM

Could it be that the extent to which sessions protest their friendliness is a good measure of the extent to which they are in fact cliquey? Well maybe not always, but certainly sometimes. It takes a fair degree of nerve for even a moderate musician, on his or her own, to sit down at a session among total strangers. For a relative beginner, hoping to pick up the tunes by osmosis, it is an even greater challenge. This thread is a good illustration of what limited understanding certain sessioneers have of this simple fact.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: alanww
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 07:16 PM

Good luck Skip, I hope it goes well. For anyone who has been to lots of sessions before it all seems so easy but I can remember that to go to one as a new thing is quite frightening!
BTW I presume you mean Monday 2 and Tuesday 3 of August, which is Sidmouth FF week - so, if anyone is at a loose end, try the English music sessions at the Radway Inn and the unaccompanied singing at the Middle Bar of the Anchor Inn as brill alternatives.
"As I rose up at break of day ...!"
Alan

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: s&r
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 07:14 PM

The victoria in Fleetwood is still going strong but apparently there was a splinter movement to the Steamer - dunno why.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Kate Rusby
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 12:02 PM

No!

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,John McCusker
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 11:59 AM

Can I come?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Buffy the pigeon slayer
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 10:37 AM

I'm on my way. oh, sorry,   wrong thread.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 09:11 AM

Good look Heather most "folkies" (dont let them hear you calling them folkies)are already certified.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Heather
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:48 AM

It may seem easy to the experienced. I'm sure most folkies are lovely welcoming people. I, however, would feel much more confident if I had a bit of knowledge before joining in with other musicians. I hope to go to the workshop - and I'll take my concertina along for an unaccustomed outing. Watch out world(screamer)

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,TAXMAN
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:33 AM

I think I'll need to keep my eye on this cottage industry that is beginning to grow, more income to government for the needy.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Syntax
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 08:25 AM

C F G
E A D
                      There you go everybody. That is all you need to know.Why don't you all open bank accounts in your clubs name, each putting £57 into it and watch your club flourish.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,Billy no teeth
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 06:36 AM

I would LOVE to be able to suck eggs.$57 seems a small price to pay to be taught this noble art.Could you provide more details oik?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: PennyBlack
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 06:35 AM

Welcome back S&R - Good Weekend??

With reference to the above clubs sessions... I think the Victoria Sessions have moved to the Steamer and is now an open mic with PA and lights on the stage (haven't had a chance to have a look yet though - ask Eileen.)

I only mentioned the Sessions - but here are a more local events where beginners are welcome, most use the come to the front with or without PA system set-up and sing a couple of songs.. I would think most beginners would find this more intimidating than a sing-around or a session -

Sunday - The Steamer (open mic)- Fleetwood, from 8.30pm

Monday - Hole in One (open Mic)Clarence - Lytham St.Annes from 9.00pm

Tuesday - Stock & Bonds Social Club(open mic with and without mic!)- St Annes from 9.00pm

Wednesday - Clarence (Folk Club - Mainly Artists)- Preston New Rd Blackpool from 8.30pm

Thursday - Fleetwood Folk Club (mainly sing-around) - The Steamer (see above) from 8.30pm

sorry to drift off topic again!

good luck (dump the school and do it yourself - I'm sure you could do a good job of it and cheaper for the newcomers)

PB

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,GUEST: Screamer
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 06:20 AM

Very interesting to note the serial abuse of the exclamation mark in parts of this thread. In my trade we call exclamation marks screamers, a good word for them.

It is apparently a condition of being a prat that there is a compulsion to deploy meaningless strings of screamers and question marks, in the belief that this somehow lends weight or endorsement to an aerated opinion.

It looks like the literal equivalent of some red-faced old bigot spluttering with rage. This tends to portray the abuser of exclamation marks, et al, as either a comical blimp or an ignoramus.

It's significant that our correspondent, Get Plucked, starts out by firing off just a scattering of three or four screamers in a row to endorse his or her opinions. As he or she gets more wound up, the number of screamers and question marks increase exponentially --- fairly spluttering with indignation!

Calm down, Get Plucked. People go on courses to learn about stuff that interests them. I believe the grammar, syntax and punctuation module comes highly recommended.

Pip pip

Screamer

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: s&r
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 05:27 AM

In the NW we have an organisation calle Folkus. We offer tuition at all levels in traditional instruments, and run workshops all over the NW. Our aims are similar to Folkworks; but we are smaller and less experienced.

We have just run a residential weekend with tutors including Ben and Joe Broughton, John Kirkpatrick, Carolyn Frances, Derek Gifford, Phil Brown, Frank Lewis, us (Stu and Rusty Wright) Alan Bell et al. The all in cost was less than £100.

There is a need for this sort of tuition: we try to meet it - one of our aims is to give people the confidence to play in public - session or stage.

All sessions are not equally welcoming; there are conventions of behaviour that are peculiar to each session, and it can be intimidating. While it's true that you can develop skills and pick up technique from the guy next to you in the pub, thaat only happens when you've plucked up courage to go through the door and sit down (as PB intimated perhaps in someone's place?....).

In the Blackpool area we're lucky perhaps. There are sessions and clubs that are welcoming, including those mentioned by Penny Black
- add the Victoria at Fleetwood (Sunday) Ann and Eddie's club at the Clarence in Blackpool, Sue Arrow's acoutic roots and so on.

We teach and provide encouragement to attend sessions and perform. These are all complementary activities IMO rathe than alternatives.

Best of luck Skipjack - everyone who tries to promote folk music is my friend - all the best

Stu

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST,oik
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM

If you give my granny $57 she could teach you to suck eggs too.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 03:57 AM

SO trolls beware GOD has spoken.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 03:04 PM

Go for it, Skip. I know noone who travels further to sessions than you (though they do say it's only to get out of this 'pissant swamp' for a few hours), and you so clearly love the tradition. It's always a pleasure to be at a session with you, I'm sure few would begrudge a few coppers for leading a workshop. And there most certainly ARE plenty of people - young and old - who just don't think they would be good enough to join in at a session. If you can allay those fears you will be doing a good job in bringing new instruments and voices into the circle.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 02:07 PM

Consider yourself still unlumped, Penny!

What you say is, of course, what we all do at inclusive sessions (like our Six Bells session) and who would think of invoicing any soul wandering in and expressing interest in joining in?

I ought to declare my interest in this. Cottenham Summer School (CSS) have identified demand for this sort of course, as they have presumably been asked to offer this type of instruction. I was approached to present part of the course on the strength of a couple of workshops that I have already run. CSS calculate the cost of courses, and charge accordingly. CSS pay course tutors for their time and travel expenses. Tutors quite rightly receive a small fraction of the course fees; quite rightly, because tutors enjoy imparting advice and experience to course attendees, and aren't there to earn unconscionable salaries. CSS asked me to advertise their course where I thought there might be some interest, which I have done here, which has been successful for those who have chosen to PM and avoid being howled at here. So would anyone still convinced that this venture is such a terrible rip-off please heap their opprobrium on Cottenham Summer School.

I have simply followed Mudcat Rule Number 1 here by not feeding the trolls, which includes anyone adopting an oh-so-hilarious guest title.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 11:13 AM

Good Luck. Music workshops are popular down sarf. So there must be a happy number of people who enjoy them. And those who don't, won't be attending. Sounds ideal.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: PennyBlack
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 10:54 AM

I'm glad about that!

I've read through all the post (yet again) and to be quite honest - I didn't feel anyone was ridiculing newcomers - just questioning the need for a "course" on playing at sessions.

I also took Plucking's comment re. "the bar's over there"..... not as a put down for the newcomers more a "tongue in cheek remark about if they have that much money (unlike us poor folkies) they can get a round in... (although our Landlord's do that at most of our session.... lucky us) - and maybe should have been followed by a ;-)

His/her further outburst was just in response to Oaklet's rather scathing and somewhat unfounded personal remarks.

If you have done your homework and there is a need for such a course (what a shame if there is - I hope no one is put off playing at any of our sessions - where even the audiences have been know to pick up and play spoons and even buy Bodhrans etc. just to be even more a part of the session) I wish you luck.

Maybe you might look at an idea that was instigated at a club I went to many years ago when the evening sessions started an hour earlier for "newcomers" when they played chatted and got to know one another - then when the regulars arrived the newcomers were in situ warmed up (and in the regulars seats :-) ) and the evening merged together very well.

Is there no way you could run the event without charging - eg local room in a pub (who would most likely be more than happy to let you have it free especially if the people were buying drinks and food?) and I'm sure plenty of musicians would offer there skills for free.

N.B. I'm not getting at you or the idea just offering my meagre observations and suggestions, I think we all want to encourage new people into music (we steal some of our best songs from them ;-) )

good luck with your venture, and I hope it does what you want it to

hope you still don't lump me with the Trolls :-)


PB

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 10:16 AM

jOhn, hamsters and goldfish are especially welcome. The only other music related course is on African Djembe drumming for beginners. I didn't mention it before, so maybe the nameless ones would like to have a go at that one.

PS Penny, I am not lumping you in with the trolls, and good luck with attracting new blood to your sessions.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 09:01 AM

i;ll have to look in my dairy, to see waht i,m doing at that time.

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 08:59 AM

anyway=i might go if im not doing nowt.john

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 08:58 AM

This sounds like a good thing, will you be teacjing people how to do fire eating as well?
and can people take there pets?

Subject: RE: UK: Beginner's Session Workshop
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 15 Feb 04 - 08:31 AM

Thanks for the comments here, and the PMs. Perhaps unsurprisingly, the PMs are from interested people rightfully fearful of ridicule here, which is presumably why we were asked to run the course in the first place, as there are obviously folk interested in becoming involved without feeling their way round this impenetrable culture perpetuated by attitudes displayed here.

I would also point out that the course cost compares favourably with training weekends such as the Workout Weekend run by Folkworks, and is offered in the same spirit.

Please will any further interested UK Mudcatters contact me by PM as there seems no point in further feeding grammatically challenged trolls here.