Charley Patton

Subject: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 02:26 PM

What do people think of Charley Patton? I've been recently listening to "The Definitive Charley Patton" 3CD collection and love it, although I could not for the life of me tell you why I love it so much: You cannot hear any but brief snatches of the words; the songs are difficult to distinguish from one another and are not that melodic. On the other hand, they have a sort of deceptively primitive rhytham that is quite hypnotic, as is the growling non-singing. I cannot listen to one track without listening to a whole CD.

What do people think of his guitar playing? I know there are quite a few musicians that post here so I would love to hear your opinion.

I can thorougly recommend "The Definitive Charley Patton." Great cover, great booklet, great pictures, and, of course, great music on 3 CDs. It is fairly cheap, too, although I can't quite remember how much I paid for it. Look it up in Amazon and that will tell you. Does anyone have "Screamin' and Hollerin' The Blues" which costs one-hundred and something pounds? If you do, was it worth the money? I am thinking about buying it but I am a bit afraid that it is a little over the top and that I would be better with the compilation that I have now.

Although Patton plays a very black music, he was only one quarter black. He was also half red indian and quarter white. Is it true that there is only one known photograph of him?

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 03:05 PM

JSP has put out a very low-cost set (5 CDs) of Charlie Patton. CAMSCO carries it, of course.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: smokeyjoe
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 03:11 PM

Charlie?- Charley? I've seen it spelled both ways, has always been a hero of mine. I think one of the reasons you're finding yourself drawn to something that's barely audible; and 'hard' to listen to, is because you're drawn in by the FEELING. Congratulations. That's what it's all about. (I prefer to deascribe Pattons sound as 'rustic' -heh-heh)
    Pure and simple, Patton gets right to the heart of what it's all about. However, make no mistake, Patton was an highly skilled musician, capable of playing many styles (as you know, from your collection). Charlie didn't seem to care what style he played in, as long as folks were willing to listen, and most importantly, pay. That goes for his lyrics as well. His lyrics went all over the place; even in the same song.
    If you want to find out more about Patton, I highly reccomend a book by Stephen Calt and Gail Wardlow called 'King of the Delta Blues'. Unless anything significant has popped up over the last 10 yrs. this book has all you'll ever need to know about Patton.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: fat B****rd
Date: 16 Feb 04 - 03:20 PM

My wonderful wife bought me a Charley Patton T-shirt for Christmas. Go to Google,click on Blues Images and all will (Or should be) revealed. I have a copy of "King of the Delta Blues" by Stephen Calt and Gayle Wardlow. I got this from Red Lick records of Wales. You mention pounds so I assume you're in the UK. Amazon UK doesn't have the book but Amazon US has it at an incredible price. Try Red Lick (that's if you're interested, of course) they're very helpful, but only on the 'phone. No callers.
All the best from the fB.
PS The late John Fahey is worth looking up as he made Patton a liflelong study.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: Max
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 01:38 AM

I think it's his chord progressions that hook me. I can hear some Texas Swing in there. I think I can really hear his inlfluence in both Robert Johnson and Bob Wills.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 01:41 AM

Thank you for all your coments, although I would still love to hear from anyone who has purchased "Screamin' and Hollerin' The Blues," which contains a book about Patton by John Fahey. I wonder how that compares with "King of the Delta Blues" by Stephen Calt and Gayle Wardlow? I have gone to Blues Image and have ordered the Charley Patton t-shirt, so thanks for that fb.

I agree with Smokeyjoe that there is an enormous amount of feeling in Patton's music and that is where his attraction lies.

I know about teh 5 CD collection. I wonder if that would be a better buy than "Screamin' and Hollerin' The Blues?" It would certainly be cheaper, but I'm curious about the Fahey book, the posters, etc. Oh decisions, decisions. Maybe I should wait for my birthday and get someone to buy it for me.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: pearn
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 03:26 AM

Yeah, I agree. CP is a favourite of mine too, even though I am a norwegian far from the cultural context of the Mississippi valley. I think it is the knowledge about CP as one of the earliest great blues performers who actually made it (I am thinking of recording) and reached a large audience. In my opinion there is not so much myths and could-have-been-true-stories around CP, and as far as I know he himself contributed to myth-creation in a lesser degree than some of the other contemporary guys. I may be wrong, but thats what I think.
I have a 5 CD collection besides other CP CD's. Mine is bought in Norway and I suppose it must be the same as Penguine Egg talks about. It contains several other artists as well, including the Delta Big Four. They are worth listening too.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 05:41 AM

Yes Penguin Egg I have the big expensive set and YES it is well over the top.
Self adhesive reproduction labels of all his issues including tests, black cardboard imitation 78's,coloured paper stock with inappropriate shiny inks which are very difficult to read unless you hold the damn thing at a certain angle to the light and with the weight and bulk of the thing this ain't easy.
The photographs are printed in such a way that they appear almost to be in negative form and are hardly visible (same shiny inks).
The paperback book is an exact replica of that publishe many years ago by Studio Vista, it even contains the rubber stamp impression of a library presumably from where the original for the repro was obtained.
There are musical samples lyrics, the whole damn shooting works on Patton plus some bullshit.
The cd's themselves are fine, no problem there.
Why did I buy It ? Because I got a very good deal and it certainly is a one-off. If you are a collector and/or anorak it will appeal. BUT if
you are only interested in the music. Go for the cheaper JSP

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: M.Ted
Date: 17 Feb 04 - 01:02 PM

Charlie Patton is a favorite of mine, as well-- I used to jam occasionally with a blues scholar who had known Fahey early on, and he said that Fahey thought that a lot of Patton's playing was impossible to duplicate without seeing the way that Patton played it(which, by then was impossible)--He also thought, far from being raw, Patton's playing contained rhythmic complexities beyond any other player--

I am listening to "Green River Blues" right now, and I have to say that, technique aside, the feel of his playing is what most amazes me--it has great power and drive, but it rolls along in a way that is almost spiritual--

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:00 AM

I have several sets of Charlie Patton recordings (although not the most expensive) and I'd recommend buying the JSP 5 CD box set, which is excellent value.

Is the Wardlow and Calt book back in print then? I've only read it from a photocopy I obtained a few years back. I'll have to check Red Lick.

On the guitar playing ability of the man, I have this response from Bob Brozman to being asked what he listens to:

"Just about the only thing I listen to is Charley Patton. He is just so much more three dimensional than all the others."
(From a 1998 interview in Folk Roots 178).

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Penguin Egg
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:36 PM

Well, Hootananny, after that review, you have made my mind up. I think I'll give it a miss. I'm always a little suspicious of lavish box sets. They, and that includes the Patton thing, always come over as a marketing job. I'm quite happy with my "Definitive" collection, although the JSP sounds enticing.

I've heard that another photograph of Patton has surfaced. Is this true and does anyone know where I can view it?

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: Wesley S
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:42 PM

By the way Penguin Egg - you can also find a lot of knowledgeable Patton fans over at the "Woodshop" section at www.guitarvideos.com

Lots of good tips for guitar players too.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:48 PM

Had some 33rpm LPs, no idea what happened to them. I noticed from day one that heavy stomping which to me seemed to anchor everything else. Also in those days, unlike today, a person would not be singing anything unless they had a good voice, CP was such a person.

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:20 AM

Dear Penguin Egg

The "new" Patton photograph is a full length shot where he is seated and playing the guitar "over the top" much in the way that the left-handed player Bill Birchfield does. In Charlie's case it may be just a pose but who knows?

The previous head-shot seems to be identical to the above with the torso not shown. You can see it at John Tefteller's web site which I can't remember at present not being at home but yopu could try putting his name into a search engine. It's a great site for blues afficionados and John also has for sale 2004 calenders sporting the patton photograph, plus others

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: GUEST,Hootenanny again
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:33 AM

Penguin Egg

Re above: website is www.tefteller.com

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: dwditty
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 07:41 AM

Penguin Egg, I love Patton, too. There is a Paltalk room on Sunday nights (around 9 PM Mudcat time) call Acoustic Blues for Your Sunday Groove. There are a few people there with amazing collections of old acoustic blues. Very nice people, and certainly willing to answer any questions you might have....or even play a few samples of works you may be considering buying. The Sunday Groove is, in my opinion, one of the real bright spots on paltalk. BTW, if you play any of that kind of music, bring your axe. They love to mix in live acoustic blues as well.

dw

Subject: RE: Charley Patton
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:49 AM

If you do a Google Image search as well as lots of the usual head and shoulders picture of CP and several of his gravestone and some record sleeves there is one of a full length picture which may be the one referred to above. Unfortunately only the thumbnail has survived the caching.

RtS