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Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!

DigiTrad:
WHY PADDY'S NOT AT WORK TODAY (Excuse Note)


Related threads:
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the sick note (11)
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(origins) Origins: the sick note/ murphy and the bricks (103)
Lyr Req: Fränkische Krankmeldung (The Sick Note) (6)
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Lyr Req: Bricklayer's Lament (12)
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Lyr Req: The Sick Note (15)
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happy? – Dec 4 (The Bricklayer) (5)
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(origins) Lyr Req: Sicknote (23)
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Lyr Req: Why Paddy's Not at Work Today (Cooksey) (5)
Lyr Add: The Sick Note (9)
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GUEST,Guest 18 Feb 04 - 12:58 AM
katlaughing 18 Feb 04 - 01:10 AM
Dead Horse 18 Feb 04 - 02:32 AM
Blackcatter 18 Feb 04 - 02:44 AM
Seamus Kennedy 18 Feb 04 - 03:52 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM
Brian Hoskin 18 Feb 04 - 06:04 AM
The Fooles Troupe 18 Feb 04 - 06:14 AM
Dave Bryant 18 Feb 04 - 06:51 AM
Brian Hoskin 18 Feb 04 - 07:03 AM
GUEST,Hugh Jampton 18 Feb 04 - 07:23 AM
GUEST,Pat Cooksey. 18 Feb 04 - 07:41 AM
Jeri 18 Feb 04 - 08:58 AM
GUEST,soundcatcher28 18 Feb 04 - 09:11 AM
Dave Hanson 18 Feb 04 - 10:01 AM
GUEST,Martin Ryan 18 Feb 04 - 10:11 AM
s&r 18 Feb 04 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,Isaac 18 Feb 04 - 10:18 AM
GUEST,hugh jampton 18 Feb 04 - 10:45 AM
JohnInKansas 18 Feb 04 - 10:46 AM
GUEST,Ivor Bigginin 18 Feb 04 - 10:48 AM
GUEST,Guest 18 Feb 04 - 01:09 PM
GUEST 18 Feb 04 - 07:20 PM
Mr Happy 18 Feb 04 - 09:01 PM
JohnInKansas 19 Feb 04 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,ivor bigginin 20 Feb 04 - 11:40 AM
breezy 20 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM
s&r 20 Feb 04 - 06:41 PM
GUEST 20 Feb 04 - 08:34 PM
GUEST,Nancy King at work 21 Feb 04 - 01:00 PM
GUEST,Jane Frier, Italy. 21 Feb 04 - 10:25 PM
Shimbo Darktree 22 Feb 04 - 12:37 AM
Blackcatter 22 Feb 04 - 02:29 AM
GUEST,Guest 22 Feb 04 - 03:26 AM
Hrothgar 22 Feb 04 - 06:07 AM
Lil Dog Turpy 22 Feb 04 - 06:32 AM
GUEST,BF 22 Feb 04 - 06:49 AM
GUEST,Stan Wallace. 22 Feb 04 - 06:51 AM
GUEST,Maddawg 22 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM
GUEST,Eric. 22 Feb 04 - 10:37 AM
GUEST,martin 22 Feb 04 - 11:05 AM
Blackcatter 22 Feb 04 - 02:53 PM
Blackcatter 22 Feb 04 - 03:04 PM
Lady Hillary 22 Feb 04 - 10:53 PM
GUEST,Guest 22 Feb 04 - 11:41 PM
The Fooles Troupe 22 Feb 04 - 11:59 PM
The Fooles Troupe 23 Feb 04 - 12:03 AM
Blackcatter 23 Feb 04 - 12:56 AM
GUEST,ivor bigginin 23 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM
Blackcatter 23 Feb 04 - 01:08 PM
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Subject: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 12:58 AM

I found so many references to this subject I couldn't decided which was the most recent so I started a new thread.
I was surfing through the TV channels the other day when I hit on a show called "Mythbusters" on The Discovery Channel. These two guys apply modern engineering to try to prove/disprove many Urban Legends and Myths (such as the "sick note" and "dying by peeing on the third rail of an electric rail line").
This show, they were trying to recreate the circumstances described in "The Sick Note" with a wooden barrel, a skid load of bricks, a 30' high scaffolding, a pulley wheel, a rope and (as the unfortunate bricklayer) a used "Crash-test" dummy. To ensure safety, remote release mechanisms were used to "untie " the rope to start with and "let go" the rope at the end.
After several uncuccessful attempts (the barrel was very strong and didn't break the first time to release the bricks & the combined weight of the dummy, barrel and bricks bent the support pole), they were able to achieve all three barrel movements, hit the dummy going up and coming down and finally beat up the dummy quite badly by dropping the remains of the empty barrel on it.
They declared the myth "Proved". They seemed to be having a good time in the process. It looked to me like the ultimate "Guy" job!


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: katlaughing
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 01:10 AM

We missed that one, darn it!!


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 02:32 AM

And the "Electrifying Experience"?????
Just in case I get caught short, you understand.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 02:44 AM

Not exactly a hard thing to figure being possible. Simple physics - we worked on such circumstances in 11th grade physics class. Years ago I could have computed the speed, force, etc.   In fact, it's the continuing to hold on that would be the hard part. Also, everytime I've heard the song (and the way I sing it) is that it's 14 floors, not 30 feet. That'd might just change the speed a bit - especially upon hitting the ground.

The Mythbuster segment that was the scaryest was the one where poopy seeds actually do produce false positives on opiate drug tests.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 03:52 AM

Pat Cooksey, the writer of the song will be delighted to hear this, I'm sure!

Seamus


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 04:54 AM

You think Pat didn't already know?
eric


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 06:04 AM

Blackcatter,

I don't pretend to know much about physics, but I thought that the distance an item falls makes no difference to its speed; whether it falls 14 floors or 30 feet the force of gravity remains the same.

Brian
(waiting for his ignorance to be pointed out and corrected)


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 06:14 AM

Gravity accelerates an object. Air resistance slows it down. When the two effects balance out, you reach terminal velocity for that object dropped from that height.

Gravity acts on a feather and an iron cannon ball the same. Because of their difference of surface area ratio to weight (partly density but more than just that), these two objects have different terminal velicities.

One pound (or kilo - depending on where you live) MASS of both objects would reach the same velocity if subjected to the acceleration of earth's gravity in a vacuum.

An object that is attracted into the earth's gravity well, will have a maximimum theoretical terminal velocity (which is beyond me at the moment, but someone here will surely tell us!), which is modified by the above concepts discussed.

Robin


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 06:51 AM

Brian - once an object reaches terminal velocity it's velocity remains basically the same. Before that point, however, it is still acelerating, so the height it is dropped from does make a difference - otherwise you'd kill yourself jumping off a chair.

I'd also like to know what the result was about the "peeing on the live rail" question. When I was young, a boy in the neighborhood was reputed to have done himself some severe harm by attempting it, and while it didn't kill him, it was thought to have scuppered his chances of fatherhood. All our parents banned us from playing near the railway line as a result. I'd hate to think what would happen if it was off a bridge onto one of the more modern overhead wires which are a much higher voltage than the third rail. On the other hand we have rigged up induction coil tricks of the same kind at parties and they didn't seem to produce any lasting damage.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:03 AM

Some people visit this site to find out about music, with me it's physics!


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:23 AM

Children peeing on the live rail?? Shocking behaviour!!
When I lived in France there was a kid who could hit the overhead line while standing on the station. He never died from it but did he get invited to all the parties!!


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Pat Cooksey.
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:41 AM

I do indeed have a video from Discovery, prefaced with me singing the
song. It has also been used on German television, naturally I'm
delighted. I am in the middle of a tour here in Germany with Sean Cannon, who made the song famous in Europe with the Dubliners.
Before anyone asks, I don't want to discuss Celtic Music here.

All the best.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Jeri
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 08:58 AM

Celtic Music might be a subject for the show, but as nothing explodes, smashes, or burns, it isn't likely they'd do an episode. I'm glad to hear the producers of the show gave you proper credit.

I missed the 'Sick Note' episode, but I'm sure it'll be on again sometime. I rather liked the one about the duck's quack not echoing. (Nothing met a violent end in that one either, but ducks are cute.) And the exploding gas tank episode, in which the Fire Department guys kept backing up farther and farther, and also seemed disappointed when the first efforts failed.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,soundcatcher28
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 09:11 AM

I seem to remember from my skydiving days that terminal velocity (for a falling body at least) was 180 miles an hour. Could be that my badly mangled body and shaky memory are a bit innacurate but i do remember you get a hell of a jolt after you pull the ripcord at terminal velocity.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:01 AM

A falling object falls at 16 feet per second, doubling it speed every 16 feet, so there.
eric


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:11 AM

until....


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: s&r
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:13 AM

Depends on air resistance - 180mph is excessive for a human unless deliberately minimising wind resistance with a Superman dive or similar. We worked it out years ago in physics at 120mph. This gives 135mph example

Stu


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Isaac
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:18 AM

The acceleration due to gravity is 9.8 m/s/s.
The unit of force is of cause the Newton which believe it or believe it not is approximately equal to the downward force of one Apple in the earths surface gravitational field.

I N

PS Don't waste your time with that Alchemy Bollox it doesn't work.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,hugh jampton
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:45 AM

You sad bastards !!!!!!! you just have to show of with the why's were's and do you mind if I dont's, dont you? Who is really interested in the mumping of a few middle class pseudo intellectuals?

Cooksey's song is great and meant to be fun,which you lot should try by the way.

Get a grip saddo's


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:46 AM

It sounds rather like the Discovery item first mentioned might well have had Red Green for a consultant.

For a "human-like" object, skydivers usually assume something on the order of 112 to 120 miles per hour for "terminal velocity" in free fall. This is for the "flat" attitude in which they like to "float" for all those fancy midair maneuvers. By assuming a "longitudinal" dive attitude, a "falling" person can reach something more like 180 to 240 mph, although the maximum freefall velocity a person can reach is not too well documented in sources I've seen.

Re Dave B's query. Pissing on the rail would have much the same effect as simply stepping on the rail. I was present at a "technical presentation" on an uncle's new electric fence, where dad and uncle were trying to convince the kids it wouldn't hurt us if we touched it. Of course, they were watching the little light on the "charger" so they only touched it "between pulses" to demonstrate. Most of the kids caught on before trying it out. Unfortunately, the old farm hound didn't detect the significance of the light and "raised a leg" with rather violent effect. He was, in fact, rather seriously injured (although he did recover).

"Hot wiring the outhouse" (or an "informal relief station") was a common enough happening in the early years of automobiles, when the "vibrator" kind of ignition coils were common, that "pissed on the magneto" was a stock shop term for doing something incredibly stupid.

John


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Ivor Bigginin
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 10:48 AM

Shit man !!!!!! those bumptiouse pricks are at it again.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 01:09 PM

I agree - it is a fun song. And the Mythbuster guys were having a great time testing it.
Their "peeing on the third rail" dummy was created of material to equal the electrical resistance of the human body. They had a lot of problems getting a good ground (earth) - they had to soak the area around the dummy with water. The bladder inside the dummy worked with gravity instead of muscular pressure so they had to increase the diameter of the fluid column to make a continuous stream heavy enough to conduct the current from the third rail. They got it to work, though.
The "terminal velocity" comments were covered on another myth they disproved - that if you fall off a high construction project such as a bridge into water, throwing your hammer into the water before you hit will break the surface tension enough to save you. In several drops from about 200 feet, they managed to rip several limbs off the poor crash-test dummy and only marginallly reduced the G-force from the impact from about 90Gs to 82Gs


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 07:20 PM

The story goes that Benjamin Franklin was annoyed by drunks from a nearby tavern who pissed against the wall of his house, and solved the problem by coating the wall with foil and connecting a charged Leyden jar between foil & ground. This was said to have been the first practical use of electricity.

Alas, my mother, who was an expert on B.F., told me it was not true.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Feb 04 - 09:01 PM

Blackcatter

'The Mythbuster segment that was the scaryest was the one where poopy seeds actually do produce false positives on opiate drug tests.'

What are poopy seeds?


GUEST,hugh jampton

If they're what I guess they might be, suck a few


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:48 AM

The description of the Ben Franklin experiment, including the usual justification, is close to what was done in the auto shops mentioned, with the substitution of an ignition coil and battery for the Leyden jar.

The evidence that the motor shop incidents really did happen is pretty convincing, even if not all the reports were completely true.

In one specific instance, ca. 1938, at the Trailways bus maintenance shop in Kip Kansas, at least 3 witnesses independently recited to me the same story, with matching descriptions of the experimental apparatus, the method of wiring (an old galvanized siding sheet and Model A coil) and the name of the "experimental subject." They each had similar comments on the character of the victim. (He was not well liked.)

They even had it down to the specific day of the week when it happened, since it was two days before payday and the boss threatened to hold all their checks until someone 'fessed up.

Of course, even in this case they'd had about 25 years to match up their stories before I heard them ...

John


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,ivor bigginin
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:40 AM

What a load of crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: breezy
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM

where did Cooksey get the idea?

G Hoff?


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: s&r
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 06:41 PM

Yes, he states it elsewhere that the inspiration is from Gerard Hoffnung's incredibly funny address to the Oxford Union

Stu


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 08:34 PM

According to the Discovery Channel website, this episode will be repeated on March 28th at 8PM & 11PM


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Nancy King at work
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:00 PM

I love "Mythbusters." I frequently don't remember the scientific/engineering details afterwards, but those guys are having so much fun, it's really a blast! Sometimes a literal blast...

--Nancy


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Jane Frier, Italy.
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:25 PM

for us it is wonderfull to seethe writer of this song finallay get the credit he is due, in England
there is a folk singer called Noal Murpyhy, who Pat gave the song
to many years ago, and who appeared on a Scottish televiosion
programm as the writer of this song. Pat wrote the song, to Murphy's
shame he ignored Pat Cooksey and claimed the glory for himself.
As far as we know Murphy is still playing in the folk clubs of
England, maybe someone should tell him that the game is over. How
afolk singer could do this is s//t.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Shimbo Darktree
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 12:37 AM

Jane - it has been a long-standing tradition of folkies to knock off other people's material and claim it as their own (sometimes after a re-work). Ctertain very prominent folksingers have been guilty of this, and it doesn't seem to damage their reputation - almost seems expected.

And I too would like to know about the "third rail" bit, although I haev no plans to find out empirically (there you are, something for the choleric readers to grizzle about!).


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:29 AM

That's to all for helping with the physics. I forgot about this thread until today.

Sorry about the Poopy seeds thing. . . That's almost as bad as the time I misspelled Kilt by reversing the 2 middle letters. . . You can probably do a search at Mudcat for THAT thread.

Once again, there's a BIG difference between a man falling 30 feet and approximately 140 feet. As said before, the speed is dramatically different, though if I remember correctly at near sea-level altitudes, a man would at least be close to terminal velocity after 140 feet. I've jumped at high as 28 feet before (well, ok, I fell) and was able to roll a bit and didn't suffer anything more than some bruising. 140 feet would typically kill someone.

Of course the secondary issue would be the question as to how fast "Paddy" would fall when connected to a line going through a simple pulley. One would assume that (pulley) friction would slow him down, but if the barrel of bricks is significantly heavier, it's terminal velocity would be greater (mass to surface area ratio) than Paddy's, thus acting as an accelerant. Of course the other question is the likelihood of Paddy being capable of holding on to the line, the first and especially second time he was pulled up.

Like all wonderful physic questions, this is a rather complicated one.    Which is why some of us like to discuss it.

In other words, the only "sad bastards" are the ones who find fault with people enjoying themselves with intellectual exercises. As Richard Feynman used to (loosely) say: the artist can see the beauty in a flower, where the scientist can see the beauty not only in the flower but in it's component structures as well.

pax y'all


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:26 AM

Jane Frier, I was in the audience at that TV show. It was one of the McCalmans series from the BBC studios in Glasgow and indeed Noel Murphy sang the song, the first time I'd ever heard it. I don't remember if he actually claimed to be the writer, but my impression was that he (Murphy) did. I know Pat Cooksey's name was not mentioned. (I saw the show twice - once in the studio and then on TV -I was ready with my recorder to get the words!).
Shimbo - I described the "Third Rail" procedure earlier.
Blackcatter - the poppy seed thing is true. (And I suppose that some time after you swallow them they do become "poopy" seeds!) A company for whom I worked flew about 20 new sales recruits into headquarters for a week of training and orientation. Included was a (urine) drug test. Unfortunately, the breakfast caterer had provided bread rolls with some kind of seeds on them and all the test results came back positive for heroin. We had to fly all the recruits back in a couple of weeks later to repeat the drug test.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Hrothgar
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:07 AM

The electricity thing just proves the old saying:

Some people learn by readng, some by observation, some by being taught, and some people just have to pee on the electric fence.

Also, where would Franklin have obtained foil in those days?


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Lil Dog Turpy
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:32 AM

From what I remember from high school physics I believe

v = u + 1/2at^2 (u plus a half a t squared)

where v is the final velocity, u is the initial velocity, a is the acceleration and t the time taken. The longer you fall, the faster you go - until viscous drag begins having a significant effect that is.

btw doesn't opium come from poppys?

Robin


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,BF
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:49 AM

Sir your assertion that foil was not available in the former colonies at the time in question is a most outrageous slur on the coppersmiths of New england.
Msrs Ardwick and Cruickshank were the purveyors of most excellent burnished Copper foil which I used to dissuade the local rummies from attending to nature on my walls.

Yours indignantly

BF


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Stan Wallace.
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 06:51 AM

I spoke to Pat Cooksey in Ireland some years ago and told him that
Murphy was taking all the credit for the song. Pat already knew
this, he told me Murphy begged him for the words, and as they were friends at the time Pat was happy to give them to him.
Pat Cooksey at this time was busking for a living in Waterford and
Kilkenny while Noel Murphy was making a tidy sum from Pat's song.
The English Folk scene for many years accepted without question
Murphy's false claim to the song, and as far as I know still do.
Anyone who knows Noel Murphy, as I do, knows he would never have
been capable of writing such a classic.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Maddawg
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM

The sick note/ call it what you like, was derived from the speech of Gerard Hoffnung in oxford university, a scholar of his time with facts and figures, (incidently that speech can be found on www.monologues.co.uk)

Reading the above Bullshit on physics, gravity and velocity, there is another opening for a modern song.
>Murphy's Physics
>The Factlayer
>The Physics note........................

apologies! just saying.................


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Eric.
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:37 AM

The difference is that Gerard Hoffnung did not write the story he told to the Oxford Union, although his delivery was brilliant, Pat Cooksey did write the song.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,martin
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 11:05 AM

By the way and just for to combine the two prevailing topics in this discussion, there is one more such "trouble report" in song, presented recently by a funny fat showman named Tom Smith /sorry, don´t know much more about him/. The song has various titles, as A Girl, Waterbed and Cat or A Really Sick Note. Rated among "filk" I believe. I don´t remember the words exactly, but after a nice poetic prelude about how a man makes a date with a gorgeous girl and is invited to her home and as they lie on a waterbed and start that very activity a cat appears among them, tears the blanket and when both are soaked with water and massage oil the cat overturned from an above shelf, she /the cat, sorry/ breaks the bedside lamp, adding electricity into it. "Soggy, burnt and hairless, but thrance was really bad - that´s the most fantastic sex that I have ever had..."

Maybe a nice theme for the Mythbreakers to prove or disprove that:-)))


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:53 PM

Yes, heroin is derived from poppys, but a wholly different type from the poppys from which we get the little edible seeds. The problem with the drug test is that is does not test for the chemicals that are the "drug" part of the plant (that part which causes a change in human physiology). It tests for other chemicals in poppys that are longer-lasting, therefore making it possible to "catch" drug users several days after they took the drug last.

Unfortunately, both legal poppys and illegal poppys have the same general chemicals.

Thanks Lil Dog Turpy for providing the equation. There is an additional aspect of Terminal Velocity - the top speed an object can reach owing to mass versus surface area versus air density (which relates to friction).


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:04 PM

If you'll excuse a serious drift . . .

Here's an article I wrote about Orlandoan Joe Kittinger:

Joseph Kittinger is an Orlandoan who was important in the development of space flight. While his work was over-shadowed by the astronauts who proceeded after him, he was one of the first persons in space. Even more remarkable is that this was accomplished without the use of a rocket or an engine of any kind! In June of 1957 and again in July of 1960, Kittinger took to the air in a balloon gondola. He wore a prototype space flight suit that engineers hoped would keep him alive during his trip.

In 1957 he achieved an altitude of 95,000 feet - a distance of over 16 miles high. In 1960, his balloon took him to an altitude of 102,880 feet (nearly 18 miles). On both occasions, having reached the target altitude, he simply jumped out of the gondola and fell back to earth. He later recalled that, "I was falling on my back. It was very quiet, very still. I had very little velocity. It seemed the balloon was drifting up away from me into a dark blue sky. But of course it was I who was falling away from the balloon."

Not only was Kittinger one of the first persons in space (the atmosphere at that altitude is almost nonexistent and is considered "space"), but he also holds the following records:

Highest sky dive
Longest duration of free-fall (over 4 minutes)
Longest parachute time
Fastest unassisted speed achieved by a person (he was
traveling over 700 mph & broke the sound barrier)

And if that wasn't enough of a career: Kittinger was stationed overseas to fly jets over Vietnam. He served as commander of the famous 555th "Triple Nickel" Tactical Fighter Squadron flying F-4s and flew 483 missions. On May 11, 1972, he was shot down and spent 11 months in the "Hanoi Hilton," the infamous prisoner of war camp in North Vietnam.

After his retirement, he continued working in aeronautics. He won the Gordon Bennett Gas Balloon Race four times during the 1980s and retired the trophy with three consecutive victories. In November 1983, Kittinger established a new world record by flying a 35,300 cubic-foot (1,000 cubic-meter) helium balloon from Las Vegas, Nevada, to Franklinville, New York, covering 2,001 miles (3,220 kilometers) in 72 hours. He expended all available ballast during this trip and landed in only his underwear.

In September 1984, Kittinger set another record by flying solo across the Atlantic Ocean. He flew the 105,944-cubic-foot (3,000 cubic meter) helium-filled Rosie O'Grady from Presque Island, Maine to the Italian Riviera near Savona, Italy. His trip covered 3,535 miles (5,690 kilometers) in 86 hours.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Lady Hillary
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:53 PM

EBarnacle here--I love the linked ads on the bottom: Crash test Accelerometers and buy a training dummy--how apropos.

In the first second of fall at 32f/s/s, the faller [if there is no other influence] falls 16 feet, in the second, 48 feet; in the 3rd, 80 feet... until he reaches terminal velocity. Bear in mind that 88 ft per second is 60 mph. Also bear in mind, it's the landing, not the falling that kills.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 11:41 PM

Blackcatter, I agree Joe Kittinger was a pioneer with balls of steel. I could believe that Kittinger fell at over 700 mph (i.e. the speed of sound at about one atmosphere of air pressure and non water-freezing temperature range), but at that altitude I can't believe he broke the sound "barrier". Surely, that would have produced a shock wave capable of ripping off his limbs.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 11:59 PM

Did you know that the height a cat falls from is related to it's survival? I don't remember the details, but there was a website - or at least an email that circulated some years ago. It's apparently to do with the cat being able to twist around and get it's feet under it. Of course, above a certain height, there's not much hope...

Which reminds me - on a musical note... Will The Turtle Be Unbroken?
- Thaks to Les Barker!

Robin


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 12:03 AM

Incidentally, the message in the thread is dated August 2000, and is marked as harvested, but I could not turn it up in the DT, even using several search choices - I got lots of "Turtle"esponses, but none that had the Right Title...

Robin


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 12:56 AM

Sound Barrier information:

sound barrier: The term sound barrier is often associated with supersonic flight. In particular, "breaking the sound barrier" is the process of accelerating through Mach 1 and going from subsonic to supersonic speeds. The term originated in the 1940s when researchers discovered a large increase in drag that seemed to indicate that an infinite amount of thrust would be needed to fly at the speed of sound. In other words, some believed that a physical barrier existed that would prevent an aircraft from ever being able to travel at supersonic speeds. Since there obviously is no such barrier, the term sound barrier is outdated and really should not be used any more. Nevertheless, it has become a popular part of the human language, and continues in use.

The speed of sound is a variable rate depending on the density of atmosphere. The general speed of sound at sea-level is 761.18 mph (1,224.74 km/h). At 102,000 feet, the speed of sound would be about 675 mph (1008 km/h).

Col. Kittinger easily passed the speed of sound at high altidude. As far as shock wave issues, clearly they were insignificant. I've talked with Col. Kittinger several times and he has never mentioned even the fear of the shock waves. That's about all I know. He went supersonic in "space" and probably returned to subsonic speeds well before he opened his chute, because of atmospheric friction (Goodness knows what it would be like to open a chute at 750 mph).


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: GUEST,ivor bigginin
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 08:10 AM

What a load of sad people.A simple request for a bit of information turns into a pissing contest.

I doubt very much if any any one of you lot who go on with this psudo intellectual psyco babble has done a real days work in their sad lives.Working on a building site (as i have done ) for years - and not just in vacations for a laugh - knows it is not romantic.Cookseys song is possibly the first case of industrial compensation ever recorded in verse but he turns it into a laugh.We have done this many times when the going gets rough.Why don't you lot just get on with your sad little lives and leave the work in the real world to real men, men who have to feed and clothe their famillies and don't live the privaliged closeted lives you lead.


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Subject: RE: Sick Note/Bricklayer/ Proved!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 01:08 PM

F-off ivor. Until 3 years ago I made my living as a air conditioning installer in Orlando Florida. I've spent thousands of hours crawling around in dusty and rat-infested attics installing duct work among other things. I've also laid sod and mixed concrete for a living.


When you say " psudo intellectual psyco babble" you don't even know what you're talking about. Some of us are enjoying ourselves discussing the actual scientific physics of the situation described in the song (and the thread drift). If you are a "tradesman elitist" (someone who calls anthing intellectual crap), you might do well to remember that some of your tools and safety equipment was divised by people who apply physics in their work.

As wonderful as the song is, it is almost certainly meant to be an example in the extreme written in order to give people a laugh in the tradition of "black humor." There is almost no way that Paddy could have survived an accident as described. Simply holding on to the rope would be almost impossible unless he was tied to it somehow (but the song doesn't say that).

So get off your high(saw)horse and leave us alone. And don't make assumptions about people when you have little info to go on. By the way, where is the "industrial compensation" you metion in the song?


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