BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets

Subject: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:00 PM

The lessons of diet doctor doom
What's supposed to make you stronger can be a killer. HEATHER MALLICK explains why health's high command is cursed

By HEATHER MALLICK
Saturday, February 14, 2004 - Page F3

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Robert Atkins died last April after he slipped on some ice, struck his head and wound up in a coma. Now, it has been reliably reported that the man who persuaded millions to eat meat 'n' fat 'n' cheese 'n' eggs while just saying no to pasta and most vegetables left behind one fat corpse. His medical report says he weighed 258 pounds. He was obese.

His wife, Veronica, is screaming mad about the report, inconveniently released amid a huge marketing effort for Atkins-brand food. But since she wouldn't allow an autopsy at the time, there is nothing to back up the Atkins people's claims (see http://www.atkins.com) that the extra weight stemmed from a fluid buildup after the fall.

Other doctors have said sorry, people in comas don't bloat to such a degree. And one medical man who knew Dr. Atkins said he was 40 to 60 pounds overweight, "and I'm being kind." Furthermore, the fall may have been caused by a heart attack (he had had one before).

So was Dr. Atkins's death simply a predictable consequence of a delicious diet that makes no sense whatsoever? Or was it karma, because the Atkins Diet was actually "borrowed" goods? Apparently, the diet it is based on shows up about every 25 years. Fat people get all excited and a lot of animals die.

In the mid-19th century, reports Greg Critser, the amiable author of the best-selling Fat Land: How Americans Became the Fattest People in the World, reports that a Londoner named William Banting stood 5-foot-5 and weighed 202 pounds. He couldn't reach his shoes to tie them. Upon the advice of a doctor named William Harvey, he began to eat beef, mutton, kidney, fish, bacon and cold meat, and that was just for breakfast. The results were stunning, and Mr. Banting's shoes were nicely tied.

His publication, A Letter on Corpulence, proved to be the Atkins of its day, but some overheated adherents, including the would-be king of France, the huge Comte de Chambord, died of it.

So did the same fate befall Dr. Atkins. Or was he just the latest entry in the sad history of bossy people who get rich telling other people how to stuff their faces?

Let's call it the Diet Doctor Doom, a puddingy version of the Kennedy Curse.

Think of American jogging fanatic Jim Fixx, who died of a heart attack while jogging in 1984. He was only 52. Or how about soy-dust enthusiast Adele Davis, with her endless list of preventive vitamins? She died of bone cancer, admittedly in her 70s, but when you compare her to Frances Partridge, the Bloomsbury diarist who died this week at 103, it doesn't look good. Mrs. Partridge's philosophy was ample, delicious food and wine, clever conversation and, above all, good friends.

Could the spiritual pointlessness of sweating and counting calories explain Diet Doctor Doom? You get on a treadmill to nowhere. Then explain why legendary explorer Sir Ranulph Fiennes has just had a heart attack at 59. His book about his gleamingly healthy lifestyle is entitled Fit for Life, yet he has been diagnosed with coronary heart disease. His exercise was pointless too, though. He walked to both poles, dragging a sled behind him. No one knows why.

Or perhaps the fact that diet doctors tend to be autocratic is a factor in their untimely deaths. Remember Herman Tarnower and his low-carbohydrate, low-calorie, water-heavy, constant-hunger Scarsdale Diet? He wasn't an easy-going guy. Diet doctors issue orders and disobedient patients hide Mars bars under their pillows. Jean Harris, the girlfriend he had coldly discarded, shot him to death.

Diet Doctor Doom can hit diet devotees as well as doctors. Douglas Adams, brilliant author of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, died of a heart attack at 49 in his beautiful house in Malibu. He was surrounded by sun, money, love and the sound of crashing waves. But no, he had to get on his exercise bike. Authors don't even need to be fit. All they do is type.

And Sharon Stone's manic exercise routine, her personal trainer, her Pilates, led to her stroke. The blood clot did its work in her brain as she was training for a three-mile charity run.

But diet doctors really are odd ducks. On a terrible day in American history, here's how Dr. Atkins reacted. "In November, 1963, two things happened. I gained an awful lot of weight from Thanksgiving, and John F. Kennedy was murdered," he told an interviewer. "I was just sitting there watching television, watching all this sad stuff. And I made up my mind. I felt I had to do something. So I went on a diet."

Diet Doctor Doom. Maybe it's caused by a sense-of-humour failure.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:28 PM

I thought that copying and pasting newspaper artices was banned here.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:41 PM

I think it's a very likely thing that an anal-retentive personality can predispose one to a premature death.

In my opinion, any extreme diet can cause problems if one stays sticks to it faithfully for long enough. Extreme ANYTHING can cause problems. The Atkins diet has proved very effective for a lot of people who had no success with other diets. Falling over, however, is not something it's going to help much with. I also remember my family doctor telling me when I was 14 years old that I needed to lose 20 lbs. The doctor was at least 50 lbs overweight himself. Practicing what they preach has not ever been a consistent thing with doctors.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 04:51 PM

The Atkins diet has proved very effective for a lot of people who had no success with other diets.

Has it? Short term, maybe. The jury is very much out on long term implications.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Don Firth
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:03 PM

And Euell Gibbons, television spokesman for Post Grape Nut cereal, and author of Stalking the Wild Asparagus and other books on foraging for natural foods is said to have died of "natural causes."

All things should be taken in moderation—including moderation itself.

Bon appetit,

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Helen
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:10 PM

Guest, dear, go and do some research and see what the long-term eating plan is for the Atkins Diet. It is not as radical as many people choose to believe, when they don't check their facts before making definitive statements.

My hubby chooses to believe certain things about the Atkins Diet but stubbornly refuses to read the book, look it up on the 'Net, etc and stubbornly chooses to believe "someone who once told him blah blah blah".

Excuse my frustration here, but how can anyone discuss anything rationally without first checking the facts? :-|

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:12 PM

I only copied and pasted because I was unable to find the specific url...

" All things should be taken in moderation—including moderation itself. "

Here here!

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:27 PM

That diet would have lost popularity eventually. Beer has too many carbs.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:34 PM

But in response to the meat puppets cries, lots of beer companies over here are shilling low carb beer...

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:37 PM

They're lying. They're lowering some of the carbs, but alcohol is converted into carbohydrates immediatly by the body, so the alcohol should be counted as a carb. They're not counting the aclohol, and they're not lowering the alcohol content.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:38 PM

Oh I know they are... but they've got the meat-puppets duped!

Again...

still?

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:42 PM

Ha! Well the joke's on them I guess. hahahaha...

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:42 PM

( ...joke's on the meat puppets, I mean)

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 05:49 PM

Yeah, but they're drunk on bacon and "low carb" beer so they don't care.

Just like those that thought that eating lunch at Subway every day was going to cause the pounds to drop.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: mg
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:18 PM

REPORTS have said that he weighed 195 when he went into the hospital and gained weight from fluid. He was a man who had to watch his weight all the time, so I understand. mg

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:19 PM

Hey... eating at Subway I was able to drop 15 pounds...

From my hips, to my ass!

LOL

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Cluin
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:23 PM

"From my hips, to my ass!"

And outward and onward.

*FLUSH*

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: MMario
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 06:58 PM

I'm very sorry - but in the article is mentioned a man who weighed 202 pounds at 5foot 5 who "couldn't tie his shoes"

If he couldn't reach his feet to tie his shoes at that height and weight there was something seriously wrong BESIDES his height and weight.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: MAG
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 09:22 PM

I read about Bannock and Dr. Harvey decades ago while researching diets.

I am losing weight (finally!) on a diet which is mostly vegetables and is not strictly low-carb.

Us diabetics are committed, if we have half a brain, to finding out what works for us, based predominantly on our BG meters.

Low-carbing tends to work for us because it does not cause blood sugar surges, which create cravings.

We check the glycemic index of a food and go by that.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Gypsy
Date: 19 Feb 04 - 10:02 PM

Thank you Helen! As one who is committed to "low carb" im willing to bet that i eat far more salad and vegetables than most people. At the very least, i spend about 30% of my paycheck on them weekly for the two of us. If'n you read the book, it is clear that it is a healthy diet. followed correctly, o'course

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,eliza c
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 11:42 AM

I have to say also, that calling people with health problems "meat puppets" is offensive. Sorry, but that stuff is extremely personal. Not that you can't have a laugh about life, but give us a break, will you? This game is hard enough as it is.
x e

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:05 PM

I took the term "meat-puppets" to mean people who eat mostly meat, and not people who have health problems (goodness knows, I've got enough of those myself). But that could have been an incorrect assumption on my part.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:14 PM

my husband has used the term "meat puppet" since the late 60's for anyone who isn't self directed and it may be a bit of a bite, but it was never intended to specifically target someone with health problems. It is possible to have health problems and still retain the ability to pull your own strings.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:36 PM

I use the term Meat Puppets the refer to people duped by Atkins...

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Metchosin
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 12:44 PM

aha! The ATKINS meat-puppets! truly a sub-group of those of us that allow our strings to be pulled by others.*BG*

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 01:07 PM

I took 'meat puppets' as being a term deliberately used by someone who just likes being up people's noses. I think he's thin enough to fit there pretty well, too. I'd say that someone who successfully lost weight and is healthy hasn't been duped. I suppose he meant those poor souls who tried this diet and weren't successful and/or had health problems because of it. It ain't what he said - it's how you choose to interpret it.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Helen
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 02:30 PM

Or Jeri, he might have meant people who have tried what they refer to as the "Atkins Diet" without following the diet properly, and basing it on hearsay so that they eat more meat than is recommended in the actual Atkins healthy eating plan.

I prefer to say that I have cut back on white carbohydrates, meaning white rice, white bread, spuds (I still eat spuds - love em!), white pasta etc. So a salad with protein - eggs, cheese, meat, rather than a salad sandwich, unless it is fibre-rich wholemeal bread and then I limit my bread intake per day. Or spaghetti bolognese with some veges included or with salad, without the usual amount of white pasta, substituted with wholemeal pasta, or no pasta if I feel like it. Or a lovely roast dinner with baked veges and greens, with smaller portions of potato and sweet potato.

My Mum had late-onset diabetes, and weight problems all her life. I have inherited the weight problems but I manage to maintain my weight rather than putting it on constantly and the only diet I have found which helps me to lose weight is the Atkins Diet.

I totally agree with you MAG. If it works for us and we follow a healthy choice then, in my opinion, it is no-one else's business.

Keep up the ribbing, Clinton. All you are proving is that you don't have any facts to base your statements on, so we can just take it as your flimsy attempts to get up our noses.

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 02:44 PM

Well, any doctor I've talked to about it says the Atkins thing is a load! Just like any other "quick fix" diet...

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 03:06 PM

My doctor says the South Beach Diet, a variation of Atkins is excellent. I have lost much weight very healthfully this way by eating only low fat meats such as sirloin (extremely high quality here in the glorious midwest), along with avoiding all "white" foods such as potatoes, rice, white flour based products and anything with white sugar. Whole grain products are OK and of course green vegetables and lower natural sugar fruits such as apples and honey dew melon. All beer is to be avoided. I think it taste like crap anyway and would much rather drink a little red wine which has proven to have healthful anti-oxidents.

The South Beach Diet is not as strict as Atkins, but it's carb conciousness I believe is right on the money and has proved very common sense successful for many. I really think the ones here who condemn low-carb diets are probably pub-bound beer-head folkies who realize that going on it means giving up their ability to drink beer for which way too much of their life is centered around.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 04:57 PM

Ya whatever MG...

I think the best 'diet' is the one implied by the study that found that the Amish are the most healthy people in North America by a long shot... And they live on Meat And Potatoes!

I call it the "Eat What Ya Want But Get Yer Butt Up Off The Sofa" diet!

"proven to have healthful anti-oxidents"

And a few years ago, they were saying you should drink 8 glasses of water a day... and now they say, not so much, but cut down on your salt... I also caught a Daily Planet spot not too long ago extolling the health benefits of beer...

I think Jeri really nailed it with "I think it's a very likely thing that an anal-retentive personality can predispose one to a premature death."

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Kim C
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM

Eat when you're hungry, stop when you're full, have a treat now and then, move around some. That's oversimplified, of course, but everyone can tweak it according to their individual needs.

I have to get a fair amount of protein or I am stark raving hungry all the time. Plenty of lean proteins are available, so it isn't really difficult to make good choices. I try to eat as few processed foods as possible, and save my Bad Carbs for something yummy, like a dessert or a glass of wine.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 05:31 PM

Kind of right, Kim C. People have different metabolisms. Some people can eat and eat and never gain weight. Some women can have 6 kids and still have a girlish figure.

A treat now and then is OK. You still got to enjoy life some, also.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: MAG
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 09:04 PM

I am pleasantly surprised to find myself on the same side as MG on this one.

Clinton, I am afraid you are coming off as the slef-contradicting tight-ass here.

If the Amish live on meat & potatoes, why are you calling other people meat puppets? In spite of repeatedly hearing that that is a misrepresentation of Atkins?

I don't do Atkins and still dislike misrepresentations. I DO do a sensible low-carb regimen.

If you want to say, exercise is the real answer, I don't think any of us would disagree. Can you try, dear, to say it nicely?

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 09:20 PM

Limiting my diet to meat, cheese, eggs, green vegetables, salads, and VERY few carbs (no pasta, spuds, white rice, etc.) has enabled me to lose 35 pounds in about three months. I can tie my shoes, have much less back pain, and my cholesterol has stayed where it was before the diet. I'm going to stick with it until I lose another 35 or so, and if it kills me, you'll be the first to know, as one of my local Mudcat pals will post the news promptly, I'm sure.
    Sandy

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: MAG
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 09:54 PM

Go, Sandy!

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Melani
Date: 20 Feb 04 - 10:52 PM

Go indeed, Sandy! I am doing pretty much he same thing, and the first week lost seven pounds without ever being hungry. I am currently at my lowest weight in about ten years. Atkins does not ban vegetables, and the very strict part is only for two weeks. Then you add carbs back in a bit at a time till you see where you will stop losing weight. I got sick, decided I needed some treats, and ate whatever carbs I wanted, including a candy bar, for one day. I gained back three of the seven pounds I had lost the week before, and it took another week to get rid of them again, after re-developing a taste for sugar.

There is a table of how many carbs people with different sorts of metabolisms can eat in the Atkins book. Those who exercise regularly (defined as 45 minutes of vigorous exercise five days a week) can eat more than twice as many as everyone else.

We're none of us going to live forever, but hauling around extra pounds is not going to extend your life. I have not been able to lose any significant amount of weight for 20 years by following my doctor's high-carb, low-fat advice. It was lose two pounds a week, and gain'em back on the weekend. Never any progress. I figure if I knock off the 20 pounds my doctor has suggested and find my maintenance level of carbs, I will be able to have a treat every now and then. And I really like beer.

There was recently an article in our local paper about high-fructose corn syrup and how it is almost every processed food, and how American obesity dates from the time it came into major usage. There is also a book on the subject which I forget the name of, but the subtitle is, "How Americans Became the Fattest People in the World."

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 11:25 AM

I resent the phrase 'meat-puppets' too. It implies that I'm just eating meat and nothing else, and only because some book told me to.

I lost nearly 28lbs (almost 2 stones) following the Atkins diet, and yes, I read the book first. I didn't do the strict bit at the beginning (willpower of a moth in a lightbulb factory), but went straight to 'maintenance', which includes more fresh fruit and vegetables than 2/3rds of the average Americans' diet.

There was, on TV recently, a programme that investigated these diets fairly intensely. Twins were put on different diets (why twins I can't remember but it's the closest you're going to get to similar metabolisms other than cloning), one of which was the Atkins diet, and the results studied. Basically the outcome was that carbohydrate intake doesn't "burn the fat off", although the reduction of carbs are beneficial. Carbs are not excreted through the kidneys or through 'ketosis'. The factor that induced the fat reduction was the protein intake. High protein and low carb, low or no sugar and sensible fat intakes.

I chose this particular diet because it suits my lifestyle, I don't have to keep a reckoning of everything I eat, I don't spend any extra money on club nights or special foods and I lose weight on it. It's my choice, therefore I am not a puppet. I eat a large amount of vegetables, fruit and nuts, therefore I am not a meat-puppet.

I am, however, 2 stones lighter than I was this time last year.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:46 PM

My daughter was overweight since she was 12. She ate a healthy, vegetarian diet and did not over indulge in sweets. She just kept getting bigger and bigger. It didn't matter that I thought she was beautiful, what mattered was how she felt about herself. It was painful to watch her go through the associated social problems.

At 26 she decided to go on a low carb diet. She started eating fish and exercising regularly. The change was dramatic! I was scared! She lost fifty pounds. She went from size 18 to size 8. She looks great, her social life certainly improved but most of all, she's happy with herself.

If you are one of the lucky ones, like me, fat is not a problem. If it is a problem, it is up to the individual to solve it. Quite frankly, I have my own problems and wouldn't want everyone to discuss it on the net. Your body belongs to you.

d

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:49 PM

Lot of wise ladies on this thread.

Lot of guys who don't know shit about what a low carb diet means.
Have another beer. Get lilly high.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: vectis
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:51 PM

The TV programme that compared three diets concluded that the Atkins diet worked because those on it take in fewer calories and so lose weight.

People like it because (like my other half) they can't bear to be hungry. He's lost 2 stone (28 pounds) and is eating more vegetables than he ever has in his life.
We've basically gone on to a more primative diet with no processed foods, just meat and four veg at every meal.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:30 PM

Rather than try to remember what everyone else said, I'll just toss my 2¢ worth out. A doctor got the autopsy report under what were, at first, called false pretenses. That's where the "Adkins was obese" story comes from. Mrs Adkins says he gained about 50 pounds in the ICU from all the fluids pumped into him. That may or may not be true. Either way, it deserves to be mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:36 PM

From what I have observed, a low carb diet alone is not enough. Its really about a change in your lifestyle. That includes exercise and staying away from sugar completely.

We just do not want to believe that sugar is addictive but...at one point my daughter decided to "treat" herself in spite of the low carb diet. Once she re-introduced sugar to her diet, she just kept thinking about getting some more. Luckily, she recognized the physical dependency and was able to get back to eating healthy again.

My mom used to get a lot of compliments on her pastry (she was Danish) and would reply, "Use another butter and sugar and anything tastes good." How right she was! We use to call sugar, "white death". Try Stevia as an alternative.

d

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 12:47 PM

Or Splenda.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:01 PM

Dr. Atkins' privacy was invaded by some unscrupulous journalists looking for sensational stories. The real issue is that 1) he was fit for most of his adult life, and 2) he rather brilliantly diagnosed the cultural problem of high sugar junk food combnined with advertizing ruining peoples' lives. As stated many times above, Atkins has helped many people adjust their overall eating habits. Most of the above criticism is the result of people who have neither read the book, nor care to inform themselves about the ENTIRE diet--all four of its phases.

For example, Carol C is grossly misinformed about how alcohol metabolizes in the body. Alcohol is converted to acetate by the liver, which the body then burns instead of glucose, or if you're on Atkins, fat. Alcohol DOES NOT convert to carbs, which is why I've lost nearly 25 pounds and still regularly enjoy scotch and sodas and martinis.

In fact, I think I'll have one now to calm myself down after reading a bunch of diet diatribe from the undoubtedly "suspiciously thin" crowd. Only people who don't have to lose weight have the luxury of criticizing other people's methods, when what they should be saying is "congratulations for trying to take control of your life."

Read Atkins' book--all the way til the end--then make informed comments.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 05:09 PM

Hear, hear. Satchel's right about what Atkins says is the role of alcohol while on his diet. Satchel would probably only have known that after having read the book.

According to Atkins, here's the amount of "digestible" carbs (in grams) for diet purposes that various forms of alcohol contain:

12 fl oz Beer: 12.5
1 fl oz Brandy (86 proof): 0
4 fl oz red wine: 2
1 fl oz rum (80 proof): 0
1 fl oz tequila (80 proof): 0
1 fl oz vodka (80 proof): 0
4 fl oz white wine: 0.9 -- p. 492 Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution

The only thing people need to know is their own experience with the diet. For me, it worked. That's why the labelling and other stuff doesn't bother me. Call me a meat puppet; all I know is I lost 40lbs without being hungry.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Helen
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 05:10 PM

My sentiments exactly, satchel.

"Most of the above criticism is the result of people who have neither read the book, nor care to inform themselves about the ENTIRE diet--all four of its phases."

" Read Atkins' book--all the way til the end--then make informed comments."

Helen

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Melani
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 07:41 PM

For the reord, I just saw a picture of Dr. Atkins in Time Magazine that was taken about two months before he died. He was definitely not obese.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Gypsy
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:00 PM

That's right. I would say that most of the people who tell me what a rotten diet this is, have not read even the prologue to the book. And that i still eat more veggies than most. As an interesting sidebar: Have a friend who is HFI (heriditary fructose intolerant) and eats no sugar, including fruit, and sweet vegetables. Have known her for 7 years, and she has had ONE cold in that time. Have done Atkins for one year, with NO sugar, and have not gotten sick. Sure is a nice side effect!

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 12:08 PM

I have to agree, based on the evidence provided that the Atkins diet does work!
The problem is that it does it by tricking the body into believing that it is starving for the first week or so. The body starts shifting the fat you store to keep up energy levels as it won't burn protein unless it really has to.
When the white fat is all burnt off the body will start burning the proteins from the diet to suppliment the low levels of carbohydrate that it is now getting (I understand that you are allowed some carbohydrate containing foods after you've been on the diet a while). The proteins are first made burnable by the liver and THIS is where the possible health risk appears. Turning proteins into a usable energy source releases some rather toxic compounds into the liver. The long term effects are not really known but some people who have been on the Atkins diet have had to stop short due to severe liver problems and even liver failure.
As a short term fix it is probably a good thing, but I certainly wouldn't like to use it for a long time.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 06:35 PM

I don't agree that Atkin's weight is in any way a condemnation of his scientific observations on weight reduction. Dudley Moore couldn't play piano for the last years of his life and Bob Dylan has never been able to sing well.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 09:53 PM

In fact, Dylan sings like crap.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Kim C
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 03:33 PM

I am pretty selective about my carbs... I never swore off potatoes of any kind, because I love them too much. Pasta was the big thing I gave up, although I do eat it now once in awhile, sparingly. Not being a big eater of sweets in the first place, that wasn't a big problem. I can have one serving of candy or ice cream and be perfectly happy.

It is about making lifestyle changes, though. I used to LOVE doughnuts. Maybe now I will have about two a year. I trade off - if I have a sweet at lunchtime, that means no dessert after dinner. And smaller portions - I still love cheeseburgers, but instead of getting the big #2 Sonic with cheese, I get the Junior burger instead, and I'm just as satisfied.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Frankham
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:09 PM

Dunno about this.


"For example, Carol C is grossly misinformed about how alcohol metabolizes in the body. Alcohol is converted to acetate by the liver, which the body then burns instead of glucose, or if you're on Atkins, fat. Alcohol DOES NOT convert to carbs, which is why I've lost nearly 25 pounds and still regularly enjoy scotch and sodas and martinis"

Alcohol is addictive. 7 percent of the population suffers from
alcoholism. It supplies 7 percent empty calories per gram which in some cases can lead to obesity. Other adverse affects are:
1. high tryglicerides.
2. liver diease
3. cancer
4. birth defects (pregnant women)
5. multiple vitamin deficiencies
6. scurvy from lack of vitamin C
7. night blindness from lack of vitamin A
8. pellagra from lack of niacin B-1
Wenicke-Korsakoff Syndrom and other nervous system diseases
9.Deficiency of thiamin (B-1)

Frank

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:11 PM

All that is so true Frank.

I think some folksingers here though think it makes them more creative.

You forgot that it makes them rather smelly.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:31 PM

Frank, get off the soapbox.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 11:54 PM

Frank, stay on the soapbox.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 03:09 PM

Frank, pass the soap.   ;)

And thanks for the particulars on the effects of alcohol. It's nice to know what I'm doing to myself. And I don't need alcohol to get smelly, Martin.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: vectis
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 08:45 PM

The Atkins book does state quite categorically the you must take a supplement containing your total RDA of vitamins and minerals daily. This stops the scurvy etc problems.
No diet is perfect but if this one suits someone then fine. It is better than being grossly overweight.
One side effect of Atkins for me is that I haven't needed any drugs to control my arthritis since I started it at the beginning of winter. I know we have had a milder than usual winter but this is the first time I can remember since I was 18 when I haven't needed the anti-inflamatories from November to March/April at the minimum.

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,satchel
Date: 25 Feb 04 - 10:01 PM

I thought this thread was about the Atkins diet and carb counting, not the relative merits or demerits of alcohol consumption.

Thankfully, vectis has cured the thread creep, and makes the most germane point-- "no diet is perfect but....It is better than being grossly overweight."

Subject: RE: BS: For the Atkins Meat-Puppets
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 26 Feb 04 - 08:37 AM

Has anyone suggested the reason for the arthritis improvment Vectis?
It could be interesting if other people with arthritis are experiencing the same thing.