18th c. fiddler tune book: republished

Subject: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: sian, west wales
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 12:48 PM

I spent yesterday at a book launch, crwth workshop and crwth concert and thought there could well be some 'Catters who would have been in their element.

Fiddler/crwthwr Cass Meurig has edited an 18th century tune book (part of her PhD Thesis) and has published it through the National Library of Wales. To quote the intro, "The manuscript is a valuable resource both for players of Welsh fiddle tunes and for those interested in the history of Welsh music. ... and unselfconscious recored of the popular music of one region of Wales during the mid-eighteenth century." I hasten to point out that this is a fiddler's tune book, and so has a huge amount - the majority - of tunes which are not 'native' Welsh; many English and Scottish. But in terms of a 'snap shot' of what was being played by professional fiddlers of the time, it is extremely interesting. Cass has also given brief historical notes to the 438 (!) tunes.

If anyone is interested, it is published by Gwasg Gomer (Gomer Press), Llandysul with ISBN No. 1 86225 042 1. I think I paid ... £15 ? ... for it.

Cass also used the opportunity to bring out a solo Crwth album (titled: Crwth) on the Fflach: tradd label, CD272H. A really listen-able album with a combination of traditional/historical tunes for the crwth as well as some of her own compositions. Highly recommended!

siân

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 12:46 AM

Sian

   Could you pm me an address and whether you are credit card accessible for us state siders that might want to order a copy?

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:00 AM

Phil, it's published by Gomer Press - www.gomer.co.uk. I note from their website that they can't do online sales yet but there is a telephone number that you can ring and they can sort you out from there. You could also try www.gwales.com which is the Welsh Books Council site, but I see that they haven't got the book 'in the system' yet. I imagine it will be there soon.

I'm not a fiddler, but I'd say it was worth having. I've checked the price, and it's £13.99. And then there's the postage; it's a weighty old tome!

sian

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:35 PM

Sian,

   Thanks, I'll check the publisher's website and see if I can contact them via email about whether there's a US place I can get the book. While not a fiddler, I love working out fiddle tunes for guitar and like to research some that are not the standard session tunes. Sound like it would be a great resource.

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: sapper_82
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 04:51 PM

I may not be reading this properly, but what is the title of the book?

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: sian, west wales
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 05:56 PM

Doh.

The book is "Alawon John Thomas: A fiddler's tune book from eighteenth century Wales".

I must give up being stupid for Lent. Think it will work?

sian

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:41 AM

Thanks, Sian, it sounds wonderful!

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: dermod in salisbury
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:40 AM

There are a number of tune books of the period around which also consist mainly of the working musicians repertoire. But the possibility of seeing at some native Welsh content is very interesting. For such a musical nation, many would be hard put to name a Welsh tune which isn't Ash Grove, a hymn, or a rugby song. Perhaps someone can put me right on that.

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: sian, west wales
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 06:15 AM

I must say that there are surprisingly few tunes in this book which are Welsh-and-nothing-but-Welsh. However, Cass does discuss this in the Intro which is very interesting. It's quite a reflection on the skill and knowledge-base of jobbing fiddlers of the day and also, perhaps, their attitude to tunes associated with the fore-runner of the fiddle: the crwth.

Hopefully some 'Catter will take a look and report back!

sian

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: greg stephens
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 07:40 AM

I really look forward to looking at this, as soon as I can lay my hands on a copy. Having spent large chunks of my life over the last 30 years on fiddle MS notebooks of NW English fiddlers, it's going to be a real treat to do a compare-and-contrast on a Welsh contemporay one that I havent seen. the real interest in these books are the differences between them: either the difference between Lancashire, and Cumbria, or the differences between 1750 and 1850. So a NE Wales MS will be a real treat. See what the common repertoire is in relation to Cheshire,say. Sounds great. I will report back to this thread when I have seen a copy.

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: Pied Piper
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 08:59 AM

s'mae Sean.
Any 3/2,double hornpipes in it?
You might be interested that there is an old Crwth(looks 18th century)
in Warrington museum.
There's not much info on it though.
gwela i ich.

PP

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 05:39 AM

I have just acquired a copy so can report. First, Pied Piper, your query on 3/2 tunes. Yes, there are a few. None distictively Welsh that I have spotted. The familiar Cheshire Rounds and Shropshire Rounds are in it, also a RoaringHornpipe( compare teh title Rolling Hornpipe found in many English collections). Thse three apparently noted by John Thomas himself. Also the Foxhunters Hornpipe (the tune found in Ireland in 9/8 as Foxhunters Jig). John Thomas's 3/2 version would appear to have come from a published London source(that is editor Cass Meurig's opinion.She assumes John Thomas had access to such books. Quite possibly, but equally well he may have used fellow fiddlers notebooks, as is commonly the case. In either case, it surely came from the published source originally, the details are too consistent for chance).
Ravenscroft's Hornpipe also appears(again copied from a London book, according to meurig).There is a Collier's Round(notated in 3/4), which is also a 3/2 hornpipe(no published source identiied by the editor). The Dusty Miller is also here(in 3/4).
    Well there's a selection, Pied Piper. cant say it's exhaustive. Strongly suggest you get a copy yourself.
      This is a totally splendid publication, recommended reading for anyone interested in British fiddle music. I say british rather than Welsh, following Cass Meurig's general thesis that John thomas was a working fiddler, and had the general repertoire you would expect from c 1750: all the hits from England, Scotland and Ireland, plus a good smattering of locally originated tunes. The Welsh nationalist revival came later at the end of the 18th century, which tried to purge Welsh collectiosn of alien English material(or alternatively, retitled it into Welsh). The Welsh language material is of greater interest to me, as I am more familiar with the mainstream English stuff, but to seee the whole collection is a wonderful education. It is of much more interest as a whole, to take out and isolate the "Welsh" material would seriously distort the picture.
   It is by far the most detailed account of a fiddler's MS book I have seen, the notes and the tunes are wonderfully detailed, and the fruits of obviously backbreaking detailed research. A must have book. I wish there was a Ph D student working on every fiddler's MS book producing stuff like this, we'ld all know a lot more. Well done Cass Meurig.

Subject: RE: 18th c. fiddler tune book: republished
From: Pied Piper
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 06:49 AM

Cheers Greg, that's a very thorough and pertinent revue; I'll have to get a copy.
I assume you're familiar with the collection of old manuscripts at the Village Music Project. There's some faceinating stuff.

TTFN
PP