BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???

Subject: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 06:12 PM

Has anyone noticed the the UK seems to have taken to making immigrants swear a pledge of allegiance (see here).

While the US one is under the controversy of being unconstitutional? See another here.

Am I missing something? Is this happening? Did I dream it?

I guess good old blighty might not become the 51st state after all...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 06:21 PM

If you're a migrant to Scotland, and want to become a loyal Scot, you'd maybe have doubts about swearing allegiance to the United Kingdom. Similarly in Wales to a less extent, and of course in Norrthern Ireland to a very considerable extent.

I can't see how making people swear an oath of allegiance to Crown and Country is really too calculated to integrate people to a population, large numbers of which would be unwilling to swear such an oath themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 06:27 PM

Hehehe - What if you want to be an immigrant to Essex, Kevin? Or to Lancashire?

Imagine having to wear clogs or white shoes...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Gareth
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 07:55 PM

Errr ! Isn't Kevin an immigrant to Essex ? - And he has my full sympathy !!!

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 08:25 PM

Maybe they could have an alternative option in which they could sing a suitable traditional song rather than God Save the Queen, and perform some traditional dance as well.

"Knees up Mother Brown" for New Londoners would do fine for both. I'm sure Ken Livingstone could throw his weight behind some initiatie like that.

When I was a boy, for some reason or other, I wanted to join the scouts, and at one point this entailed putting my hand on a Union Jack and swearing an oath of loyalty to God, Queen and Country. So I helf my hand a fraction away from the flag and made a mental reservation about the Queen and Country bit. That's a Jesuit education for you, you know about stuff like that.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Raedwulf
Date: 27 Feb 04 - 09:51 PM

Is it going to alienate anyone? I very much doubt it. Might it have a positive effect on some of the participants? Probably. Result? Net benefit. It may do nothing for many, but if it does something for some, it can't be a bad thing, and I can't honestly see a downside.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Johnny in OKC
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 12:10 AM

It's the "under God" bit that gives us trouble.
Just leave that out and you have no problem.

Love, Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: LadyJean
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 12:16 AM

My best friend in high school was a Quaker. They don't take oaths. It's a Quaker no no. So she wouldn't say the Pledge of Allegiance. I think new immigrants to the United States take some kind of oath to uphold the constitution. I know those who join the U.S. armed forces, or work for the U.S. Census do, because I've worked for two censuses.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: ced2
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 05:01 AM

It's a good job those of us who were born here don't have to take this oath of allegiance, the concentration camps would be full!

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 06:02 PM

I gather there's an option of affirming rather than swearing, like in court.

But the point that asking people to swear allegiance to "the United Kingdom" is not a neutral thing to require, especially in Northern Ireland remains. I don't know if they are planning to modify this ceremony over there, but they need to.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Peace
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 09:02 PM

There has been a push in Canadian schools to play the National Anthem every day, and the school I teach in says the "Lord's Prayer" every day. As a child, I recall TV signing off every night with "God Save the Queen." Countries love to have patriots, but then it would be really stupid to allow people to become Americans, Canadians, etc., if they wanted to overthrow the country's government. If "under God' is the issue, take it out.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 Feb 04 - 09:07 PM

The whole thing is rather tacky, and not at all stiff upper lip.

Blunkett is absolutely off his trolley.

Subject: RE: BS: UK Pledge of allegiance???
From: GUEST,Abdul
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:46 PM

Makes it easier to be done for Treason as well (should the need arise), I would imagine