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BS: Martha: What will the jury say?...
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Subject: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:23 PM Well, this being Super Tuesday, it's time to vote early and vote often... Now, looks like after two 'er three weeks of Martha Stewert's trial fir being involved in perhaps so insider trading, it goes to the jury tomorrow. So, waddayathink the jury is going to say? Guilty or innocent? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amergin Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:25 PM i dont care. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:32 PM Well, danged, Amerigin. If, ahhh, you don't care, then why post??? Awww, nevermind... Jus' funnin'... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Peace Date: 02 Mar 04 - 08:59 PM They better say "Not Guilty" or Thomas The Rhymer will have a broken heart. But, if they say "Guilty", then he will know where to locate her. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bill D Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:03 PM if the jury's decision comes back on lavender paper with scalloped edges and a decorative hand-tied bow, we will know who 'won'...*grin*. I personally think she will get her little hand spanked in some genteel way, and will go right back to riding herd on her little empire with the same iron hand. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:16 PM
Sincerely,
Of being, SMARTER, More-Connected, RICHER....than the envious jury. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:35 PM Well, danged, Gar.... How do you really feel? Awww, jus' funnin' wid ya... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Deckman Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:47 PM I am drawing the parallel here between the only (first?) woman executed by hanging following the assassination of President Lincoln, and the outcome of this case. My dim memory tells me that there were seven people hung, including a lady who owned a boarding house where Booth and his partners planned the attack. With all of the horror stories involving the investment scandals, this is the only one, as far as I know, involving a high profile woman. (if I'm incorrect, I'm sure someone will correct me). This might become a statement as to the state of womanhood in the world of high finance. Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:50 PM Very intersting, hypothesis, Bob... Maybe it's high time to let a woman take a little heat. Hmmmmmmm? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:18 PM The issue is whether she is guilty or not, not what she can be made to represent. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:22 PM So, Amos, guilty or not? Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amos Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:39 PM I haven't seen the evidence, Bobert. From what I have read I am inclined to suspect not (or reasonable doubt at the least, which is the same verdict as far as I am concerned). A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Deckman Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:57 PM I also suspect that regardless of the verdict, her guilt or innocence will be debated forever on talk radio, the press and in living rooms. And the reason I say that speaks to the incredibly low regard we have now for the so called "American justice system." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 02 Mar 04 - 10:59 PM Not Guilty. She has suffered enough... From the little I've heard, it sounds like business as usual. The question I have, is why she is being singled out... Sure looks like 'selective enforcement' to me... I do think she's cool, but I wasn't aware of her 'Robber Baron' status... ;^) Relax Martha, Everything's going to be fine... ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: harpgirl Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:25 PM Not guilty. Any smart stockbroker with that much invested in a stock would have a stop-loss order on it. If not, she would be guilty of being reckless and dumb. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Peace Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:29 PM " . . . and that's a good thing." |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:28 AM Makin' fun of me again? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: katlaughing Date: 03 Mar 04 - 01:09 AM Deckman, did you mean the first woman hung related to Lincoln's assasination or in the US? If the latter, you might want to see this thread: The Balland of Ruth Blay. She was hung/hanged in NH in 1768 for hiding her stillborn child. They are trying to make Martha a scapegoat. I hope the jury is smart enough to see that and come back with a NOT guilty. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Wesley S Date: 03 Mar 04 - 10:45 AM NO JUSTICE - NO QUICHE |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Peace Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:27 PM TTR: I carried a flame for years for Shania Twain. She doesn't even know I'm alive. I would never make fun of you and Martha. In fact, if she ever gets outta jail, I'll e-mail her on your behalf and say lotsa good things about you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Deckman Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:43 PM Kat ... thanks for the education. I wasn't at all certain that she was the first woman hung in America. Bob |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 03 Mar 04 - 03:34 PM Gosh brucie... I am so heartwarmed, I'm aglow and agog... would you do that for me? Wow! So... hey, I've got Shawnia's number... shall I call her for ya? It's never too late, big guy... ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Peace Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:05 PM LOL, TTR. By all means. I'm havin' a good chuckle here. Thanks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: freightdawg Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:10 PM "........." makes a killing selling stock just before "....." stock takes a nose dive, ruining thousands of people's fortunes, and "........." is just a scapegoat being persecuted because of who "...." is. Now fill in the blanks and see which one you agree with: Martha Stewart, her, Martha, she. Vice President Cheney, his, VP Cheney, he She's as guilty as a well fed fox in a hen house. But she will walk, because she is a woman, and women are not perceived as being greedy, selfish, ambitious, or immoral when it comes to money. The US legal system ceased to be about justice a long, long time ago. a very cynical Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: katlaughing Date: 03 Mar 04 - 11:20 PM You're welcome, Bob.:-) frieghtdawg...did you follow the link to that ballad? Wanna go back to hanging women who have stillborn children? Extreme, I know, but you've really generalised up there.:-) Ever heard of Imelda Marcos; remember Leona Helmsley? The media minced no words in showing them up to be every bit as greedy, selfish, ambitious, or immoral as men. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 03 Mar 04 - 11:58 PM Martha took a look at the messages on her computer, changed one, then changed it back because she realized it was tampering with something that could later be evidence. That speaks volumes. She decided not to do it, to purge the record or change it. I wonder how many people can say they made the exact right decision the first time, spot on, without having to look at an issue from several sides before deciding to do what was ethically correct. Hey, brucie, you can send Martha TTR's photo. He looks a tad young for her (and for me, darnit!) but she will enjoy looking at it anyway! You might just make her day. :) Kat--that discussion of the song re: the woman hanged for hiding her stillborn--it's like the flip side of "Down by the Greenwood Siding" (The DT has a version called "The Cruel Mother" and uses "sidey") that goes: "She took her penknife, keen and sharp/All alone and lonely. . . " SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: katlaughing Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:02 AM Yeah, SRS, I know that song and it did come to mind when I found that ballad. Sad commentary, isn't it? And, to think we raise our kids on such gloom!**bg** |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amergin Date: 04 Mar 04 - 02:06 AM Well....I know I'll be singing my kids gloomy songs about heart breaks suicide...murder....death in general...kids eat that stuff up...look at the all the violent children songs...lol. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 04 Mar 04 - 09:03 AM Maybe ttr has one of them edifuss things going. My harp player got a bad case of edifuss. It's downright embarrassin'. Where ever we play he'll find some woman 'bout 20 to 25 years older than him (he's 29) and start flirtin' wid the poor woman (usually 50 somethin'...). I usually have to pry him away from poor bewildered victim. Yeah, that edifuss stuff ain't nuthin' you wnat to get on you. No sir... Now, looks like this could be the big day wid the jury wrangling over her guilt 'er whatever. I figgure it to be either a hung jury 'er shades of O.J. Bobert p.s. Iz jus' funning wid ya, ttr... Really. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:14 AM Amergin, I agree with you there. Perhaps those death and dismemberment songs serve to reinforce how good things are at home? I loved those songs as a kid. Lehrer's "The Irish Ballad," along with old standards like Lord Randall, Barbry Allen, Outlandish Knight, Old Tante Koba (Marais and Miranda), and some I can't remember the names of, like the one with the two sisters, one murders the other, she washes up in the mill pond and the miller is hanged. . . lots of violence, revenge, innocent victims in those songs. SRS |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:57 AM Ouch... Ah ain't no spraing chiekin... foct o da matta eis, Ahm raht in that ol' age braket fer Martha. Yes, she is showing the strain of a nasty smear, but it'll take her about two months to gather in all that cuteness that she's squirelled away... Mature women can be extremely sexy... It's more about who they are, than what their genes are shouting... And SRS... that's me in the top picture sitting next to my human. He plays guitar and dulcimer, sings the songs I tell him to, and most importantly... does my typing. Sorry for his terrible spelling... He's just leaning to use his brain... We call it 'obedience school'. ;@} ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 04 Mar 04 - 11:47 AM So are you calculating your age in dog years? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:09 PM I was born in the 50's, and had rose colored glasses on on 'Telegraph' in the sixties... as a pup... ;@P |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Steve in Idaho Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:40 PM Guilty - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: freightdawg Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:40 PM Kat, Okay, maybe I over generalized just a teensy, but the basic truth is the same. When it comes to financial dealings women are generally (underline generally) viewed differently than men. Why have there been so many objections about Martha's case going to jury? "She is just a scapegoat." "They are picking on her because she is a woman." I dare say that if a man had the same charges brought against him (and many have, Enron, Global Crossing, etc), that it would just be filed away as "just another crooked CEO." Well, from what I have been able to follow from the story, she is just another crooked CEO, who just happens to be female (no better, no worse than her male counterparts). My cynicism comes from that fact that court rooms are not about justice anymore. The most financially well off get favorable verdicts, the average joe in the street gets fined, sent to the pokey, or both. The only thing lady justice has in her scales is wads of cash, freely bestowed and graciously accepted. Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amos Date: 04 Mar 04 - 01:55 PM Women are supposed to be much too compassionate to pull this kind of shit. If it gets out that ANYONE can go criminal then men won't have testosterone poisoning to blame any more and there goes the neighborhood. Especially women who do antimacassars.... :>) A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: katlaughing Date: 04 Mar 04 - 02:56 PM Thanks for the clarification, freightdawg. I happen to share some of your cynicism about our justice system, esp. about the fat cats who get away with it, most of whom have been men, including the Resident's brother. If women are not shown in that light, in your opinion, as much as men, then I believe we have to delve far back to Victorian times and beyond to examine the stifling pedestal our patriarchal world imposed on women. They weren't even supposed to have strong, assertive role models unless they were selflessly doing something benevolent, usually for men. Poor Florence Nightingale got a very cold reception when she came back to England and tried to get nursing recognised as a legitimate occupation, rather than one for drunkards and slatterns to fulfill. There's always been an ambivalence in society about strong women, whether they do good or evil. I believe that stems from male-domination. BUT, I also believe we are swinging into a balance of sorts and the old status quo just ain't anymore.:-) kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Amos Date: 04 Mar 04 - 02:59 PM The most supportive and affectionate women I have known have been strong women. They were just smart about how to deploy that strength -- they could see just by watching the males that pissing contests were not very productive. Even when using no hands! A |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:01 PM Amos... you are looking more and more like a mole... ;^) Any comparison between Martha and 'the big boys' is BS. I believe we are looking at her private dealings, and ones in which she tried to do right. She is being used as a smokescreen, and as an example. Backlash politics, inspiring underhanded tactics... Monica was encouraged, and Martha's broker was being choreographed... and he did what he could... Macarthy era tactics... in the age of Duh... bya. Who would you rather burn... Laura Bush, or Martha Stewart? I'd say 'call up the no brainer'... ;^) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: harpgirl Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:13 PM Here are the rules on insider trading:http://www.sec.gov/rules/final/33-7881.htm Isn't the issue how she found out? Was she told directly by an Inclone family member that they didn't get the contract that would have made Inclone skyrocket in price?I don't believe so. Or did she just watch it begin to fall when the family started to dump their own shares? She was a stockbroker before she became a CEO. She would have a stop-loss order on that much of one company stock. It's a no-brainer. This stock trade has nothing to do with her own company. Am I missing something here? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: harpgirl Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:24 PM For Thomas:http://www.savemartha.com/ |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: harpgirl Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:34 PM And this helped me to sort out all the issues here:http://www.savemartha.com/indictment_summary.html |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bev and Jerry Date: 04 Mar 04 - 11:53 PM Martha isn't being charged with insider trading because the feds didn't think they could prove that. She's being charged with lying about it which they think they can prove. We'll see. Bev and Jerry |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Mar 04 - 12:47 AM Ironic that they are charging her with lying about something they are no longer charging her with, isn't it? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Steve in Idaho Date: 05 Mar 04 - 05:29 PM Guilty on all four counts. Stock plummeting and she reports to the Parole Person next week. Going to jail and out of business it appears - |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: freightdawg Date: 05 Mar 04 - 06:25 PM I'm stunned. As I said in an earlier post, I didn't think the jury would convict. And, in disagreement with some of the earlier posts, the judge threw out what he thought was a "novel" charge that in dumping her stock Martha was defrauding her fellow stockholders. She was convicted of lying about her stock trading, which for all intents and purposes, is the same as insider trading. They had to prove that she was tipped off about the Imclone implosion, and that her decision to sell was based on Waksal's selloff, not some phony $60.00 stop loss order. Also, important to note that the jury got her accomplice on 4 out of 5 counts. Does this verdict restore my faith in the judicial system? No, but hopefully it does send a message to all CEO's, (male, female), that what they do with the little guy's money does count for something. She is promising an appeal (surprise, surprise). We'll see how the rest of the story unfolds. Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Mar 04 - 06:40 PM This is actually quite depressing. What will be accomplished by sending such a violent offender in with the rest of the civilized jail population? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Bobert Date: 05 Mar 04 - 06:42 PM Ahhhh, ttr... Hey pal, they *do* allow visitations!... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Charley Noble Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:15 PM Send flowers, if you care. Dead flowers! Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: GUEST,pdc Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:17 PM If they can get Martha Stewart, why haven't they gone after Ken Lay? Could it possibly be his connections to the Bush family? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:45 PM I'm crushed... can she appeal? What a waste of sublime cuteness... ttr |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:48 PM Yes, she is going to appeal. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Charley Noble Date: 06 Mar 04 - 08:07 PM I'm not sure she has any appeal, or any taste for that matter. Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: catspaw49 Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:02 PM For me, this has had nothing to do with the fact she is a woman or women's rights. As a matter of fact, it had nothing to do with anything you have discussed here! I remember the day I watched her make homemade potato chips for a party and each little chip had a sprig of parsley imbedded in it. Any dumbass who advocates making snack food that fuckin' stupid deserves to be guilty and do time for something! So I just pretend the twit is guilty of Criminal Silliness and go to sleep knowing the world of junk food is much safer tonight. Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:15 PM Touche'... Gotta agree with you on that one spaw... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Martha: What will the jury say?... From: Big John Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM And thank you for riding Marta. |
