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Folklore: Tarred and feathered
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Subject: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: michaelr Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:02 PM I had been under the impression that this barbaric practice was a Southern US specialty which the KKK inflicted on blacks, but just the other day I watched an Irish film called "The Run of the Country" (starring Albert Finney) wherein it was done to a young Irish lad in retribution for impregnating a girl from the other side of the border. I'd be interested to know where this practice originated and what its meaning may have been. Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Deckman Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:04 PM In the U.S., it was a common form of punishment to anyone. Bob |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Allan C. Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:44 PM It appears the practice is far older than the KKK. According to this article, "By March, 1770, at least thirteen individuals had been feathered in the American colonies: eight in Massachusetts, two in New York, one in Virginia, one in Pennsylvania, and one in Connecticut. In all of these instances, the tar brush was reserved exclusively for customs inspectors and informers, those persons responsible for enforcing the Townshend duties on certain imported goods. Indeed, American patriots used tar and feathers to wage a war of intimidation against British tax collectors." The article also implies that the custom existed in other countries long before then. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Allan C. Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:48 PM The article also states, "Boston mobs began to tar and feather an individual's property and effects rather than his body. Several persons' homes were tarred and feathered, as was at least one merchant's store. In Marlborough, a crowd went so far as to tar and feather the horse of merchant Henry Barnes." |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Amos Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:19 PM Interesting 5that mindless mobism had is place even during those revered times... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Sorcha Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:55 PM Isn't there a fella in on Pennsylvania Ave that deserves this? 1600 if I am not mistaken......then, ride him out of town on a rail too. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: michaelr Date: 13 Mar 04 - 12:04 AM Is there a history of it in Europe? What is the symbolic meaning of the feathers (assuming the tar was just to make them stick)? Fascinating stuff, guys! Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Ed. Date: 13 Mar 04 - 12:24 AM The earliest known reference is from 1191 Click Here for details. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Joybell Date: 13 Mar 04 - 05:47 PM Imagine the mind of the creative genius who first thought this up. Of course we're a clever bunch. I remember a discussion with a four-year-old where we got into that game of "would you rather..." Her final shot was "would you rather have your mouth filled with worms and then sewn up or...." Joy |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Gareth Date: 13 Mar 04 - 06:57 PM Then there is this poem Click 'Ere BTW an traditional rite of passage for coopers was to be rolled out in a barrel containing slops and feathers. Gareth |
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Subject: Lyr Add: From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Mar 04 - 08:46 PM Surely there's also an element of an even worse fate hanging over the person getting the treatment, if someone sets light to the tar and feathers? I have the impression that this was not unusual in the KKK version. ............... In another context, there's an echo of something not a million miles from tar and feathering in in a traditional story, The Devil and the Feathery Wife", in the DT. Here are the relevant verses: ..."Oh, never you worry," his wife, she cried, "Be it happens, you'll pay for your fee, For the wit of a woman, it comes in handy At times in an hour of need "Go and fetch me the droppings from all of our chickens And spread them all over the floor Stark naked I will strip myself And I'll roll in it all over the floor "And fetch me the basket of feathers," she cries "Of the beasts we had for our tea And I'll roll and I'll roll all over in them Until never an inch be free" So she rolled and she rolled in feathers and droppings from her head down to her navel "By Christ", he says, "what an horrible sight You look far worse than the Devil"... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Rapparee Date: 13 Mar 04 - 09:04 PM The riding on a rail wasn't gentle, either. "Rails" were triangular fence parts, and a "good sharp one" could literally cut into the genitals and perinium -- not to mention wickedly long splinters from the rough-split wood. In the backwoods US, ca. 1830, those tarred and feathered were first stripped naked. Once mounted on the rail they were carried, bouncing, through the community. Mark Twain recounts the tarring and feathering of the Duke and the Dauphin in "Huckleberry Finn;" there are other references in the literature of period as well. Apparently it was meted out as a vigilante-style punishment for such crimes as hog stealing, other theft, extreme spouse and/or child abuse, and other actions that would damage the frontier communities. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: nelagnelag Date: 13 Mar 04 - 09:32 PM Regarding the KKK, (man I hate talking about this, but here I am) I am curious that the white hoods, etc, must be a bastardization of the druidic traditional garb, hence the "grand high wizard", etc. of the KKK. Also, I'm curious if the cross-burning had some origin with things like the wicker-man, where people may have been sacrificed in rituals. Ugh. Sorry, ugly stuff. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Celtaddict Date: 13 Mar 04 - 09:33 PM I understand that the result, which we today generally seem to consider as involving indignity, was quite often fatal. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: nelagnelag Date: 13 Mar 04 - 09:35 PM Yes, it makes me think of "necklacing", where burning tires are put around someone's neck. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 13 Mar 04 - 10:23 PM All that "traditional druid" stuff is a romantic fantasy invented in the 18th century, and considerably embroidered upon more recently. The Roman reference to "Wicker Men" -though genuine- is a single one and we don't know if it's in any way accurate. Beware of attaching significance to such things. It's likely that the Klan bought into the fantasy, of course; I know very little about them, but I do recall that they used to give their officials fanciful "cod-druid" titles like "Grand Dragon" and so on. The hoods are not druidic. They appear to derive from the Inquisition and the Auto-da-Fé. Perhaps someone could give specifics on that. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 14 Mar 04 - 08:24 AM I've always assumed that the "fiery cross" stuff was taken by the KKK from Scottish tradition, very probably via Sir Walter Scott novels. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Cuilionn Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:07 AM The most tragic element of the KKK's "ancient" rituals is that they represent an attempt to "invent" a cultural context & sense of belonging/empowerment. Most "white power" groups have similar tactics, and who's the quickest to buy their lies? Young European-American men in economically-depressed areas with limited cultural & intellectual resources. I often wonder what would happen if these angry, spirit-starved, hungry-minded young men were given REAL cultural nourishment: powerful traditions of dance & music, community gatherings in which to learn them, stories and lore communicated to them by mentoring elders, instruction in ancient languages that open up entire worlds of perspective, insight, and understanding, and--best of all--the chance to gain meaningful employment in the service of such a heritage, through performance, teaching, archeological research, hands-on creative work, etc. I know these ideas have been tried before--I've read a great deal about the Arts & Crafts Movement & other social reform projects in the late 1800s & early 1900s, which seem to have had only a moderate impact on the problems they sought to address-- but surely we can learn from both the successes & failures to create & implement something better? The hunger for heritage runs so deep... no wonder so many young people attempt to "invent" communities, cultures, and histories for themselves through participation in gangs and similar organizations. Clearly, the task is set before us: we must offer someting more substantial & nourishing, something authentic, something undeniably powerful and "real" that reaches into these angry, wounded young people before they unleash their anger and wound others. I don't pretend to know the best way to reach them--I suspect it involves some serious face-to-face contact and an investment of time to rebuild their damaged trust. I also suspect that the very fate of the world depends on this work. We must impart all of our "folk" wisdom and knowledge, and re-tell the old stories so that they can continue and new stories can be born. From the postings I've read throughout this forum, it is clear that many Mudcatters have already embraced this challenge. Perhaps I'm preaching to the choir... but here it is, Sunday morning, and the sun has graced us with its presence for another day of possibilities. I've had a bit of rest, and I'm newly invigorated by the music & linguistic gifts of my own heritage. I guess I just can't help preaching, 'cause it feels like Good News worth sharing! An Beannachd Oirbh/Blessings, --Cuilionn |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Fiona Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:56 AM <"fiery cross" stuff was taken by the KKK from Scottish tradition> Like McGrath I've always thought that too, quite annoys me really. As regard to tarring and feathering I think it also happened a lot after the liberation of France, to women who had consorted with the Germans during the occupation. I also vividly remember some young women in Belfast, who had gone out with Briish soldiers (this would have been the early 70's) having their heads shaven and being tarred and feathered and left tied up to a lamp post. It made the front pages of the newspapers, dreadful pictures of them surrounded by jeering crowds. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 14 Mar 04 - 12:19 PM It occurs to me that the effect of punishment wasn't over with the head-shaving and application of the tar and feathers and occasionally the ride out of town on the fence rail. The miscreant, naked and covered with T&F, has to go somewhere. Where? The word probably will have gone out to all the towns and countryside about, and in addition I suppose that the tar would be difficult and painful to remove. I can well understand that the T&F'd ill-doer might have a hard, hard time staying alive. Naked, without money, visibly marked and recognizable by the shaving and T&F, known by word of mouth by all whom (s)he is likely to run into for at best several days and maybe weeks, it would be a hard survival indeed. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 14 Mar 04 - 01:54 PM The first mention of tarring and feathering in American print concerns Mr. John Malcolm, officer of customs at Boston, who received the treatment in 1774 (see Allan C posts, above.) The spread of the practice throughout the lands occupied by England seems to be the result of its use in the British Navy, but whether this descended from its use by King Richard, or was a re-invention, ?? Hutchinson, in his Diary record of a conversation with King George III (1774)- King George: "I see they threatened to pitch and feather you." Hutchinson: "Tarr and feather, may it please your majesty." Quote in the OED. The practice may have led to the expression, 'tarred with the same brush.' |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: michaelr Date: 14 Mar 04 - 11:18 PM Thanks to all, and especially Cuilionn, for your knowledge and wisdom. I always learn something when I ask questions on the Mudcat. I'm still curious, though, what the symbolic meaning of the feathers might be? Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: NH Dave Date: 15 Mar 04 - 12:03 AM Remembering that this used to take place before the advent of detergents and other agents to dissolve or emulsify the tar, it would have been rather difficult to get all the tar out of various folds and crevices of the body, and the feathers just made the job the more difficult. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: greg stephens Date: 15 Mar 04 - 02:37 AM RL Stevenson(Kidnapped) rather than Walter Scott for the most famous literary fiery cross I would have thought. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: LadyJean Date: 16 Mar 04 - 12:35 AM The original Ku Klux Klan was formed by a bunch of young men who had served in the Confederate Army. They were young fools who wanted to have some fun. The fellow in charge of initiations was titled the Grand Turk, which suggests the kind of "fun" they would have had. They were like a college fraternity, a bunch of assholes in their late teens and early twenties. They liked dressing up as ghosts and scaring people, especially Blacks. Many people in the nineteenth century south, Mary Chestnutt, the white diarist included, believed in ghosts. Have you ever been out in the real country at night. It wouldn't be hard in such no existent light to see someone dressed in a sheet as a ghost. The KKK of the 1860s quickly turned into a terrorist organization, and was forced to disband. AND THEN D.W. Griffith turned a novel called "The Clansman" into "Birth of a Nation". The KKK were shown as saviours of the south and of the white race. They dressed in robes inspired by the Spanish penitential societies, not like the original Klansmen, whose robes were vastly more original. An enterprising soul, his name escapes me, decided to revive the KKK as a fraternal organization, like the Elks or the Shriners. He sold them robes like those worn in Griffith's movie. So was born a nasty tradition. There is no 1 Ku Klux Klan at present. There are several organizations calling themselves the KKK. They don't get along with each other, raid each other for members, and fight among themselves. A local chapter spoke from the courthouse steps some years back. They used the most appallingly FOUL language I have ever heard in my life. Which of course, kept press coverage of the event to a minimum. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: nelagnelag Date: 16 Mar 04 - 02:18 AM Cuilionn, I feel like you've read my mind. This is exactly the road I am going down. (see clip from your message below) I don't see any other way out of many of our problems. I also see this relating more deeply to our connection to the environment. (see book mentioned at bottom) One thing that interests me is starting local song circles to investigate the oral tradition, some of the time singing in the original language. Also, I will print out lyrics, with some notes about the origins of the song, and translations into english. I think it is interesting for people to learn that 1000 years ago people had some of the same kinds of thoughts and problems (who to marry, oppression, poverty, humor, etc. etc.) Also, I think it is interesting to learn about ourselves and the oral/living tradition this way. I think we'll be very very surprised what we learn when we explicitely explore this, no kidding. As far as your comment below (see clip) - I think that one has to keep going in pursuing these things if one believes in them as possibly being effective. As one works to understand, enthusiasm and the act of trying is actually far more effective than one may think. Often the rewards for this are not apparent or immediate, and it takes a lot of patience, thoughtfulness, compassion and faith in onesself and trust that the work helps people and improves the general situation! One thing I'm interested in right now is the possibly fundamental tribal nature of human beings. Traditional music (the old old stuff) relates very directly to this. This "tribal" nature brings people together, but it also separates people. (i.e. irish music vs. scottish vs. west african, etc.) This ends up relating to tastes, preferences, friendships, language, music, ways of thinking, culture, and many other things. So I'm thinking about this all the time these days, and haven't come up with a "solution" that resolves the "good" and "bad" results of this tribalism, but I think it is very interesting meanwhile to look into the oral tradition basis for all of our music, since in my mind that's where it all started and went on for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years. Anyway, reading the book "upright" right now, about how humans adapted to walking upright, which freed their breathing (didn't have to synchronize it with their walking), and was one of the things that led to being able to talk. For more info: Upright : The Evolutionary Key to Becoming Human -- by Craig Stanford best, G > Cuilionn - PM > often wonder what would happen if these angry, spirit-starved, >hungry-minded young men were given REAL cultural nourishment: powerful traditions of dance & music, community gatherings in which to learn them, stories and lore communicated to them by mentoring elders, instruction in ancient languages that open up entire worlds of perspective, insight, and understanding, and--best of all--the chance to gain meaningful employment in the service of such a heritage, through performance, teaching, archeological research, hands-on creative work, etc. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: alanabit Date: 16 Mar 04 - 02:29 AM Lady Jean. Thanks for a very informative and interesting post about the KKK. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: open mike Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:32 AM On the lighter side, Debra Cowan and 3 others , Dave Cowan, Dave Longacre, Jim Williams were in a musical group called Tar'd and Feather'd: From 1988-1993, she was one-fourth of the Chico, California based group Tar'd & Feather'd, who performed at the grand opening of the world renown Sierra Nevada Brewery Brew Pub and were known for their innovative song arrangements and hilarious stage antics. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:10 AM During the late 19C, the white feather was given to young men, who it was thought should have enlisted, thus bringing home to them that others thought they were cowards. I seem to remember a novel or a film called "The White Feathers", or similar. \ Robin |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Rapparee Date: 16 Mar 04 - 11:41 AM The conical headgear of the KKK has its antecedents in that of the Straw Boys of Ireland (remember that many in the American South can trace Irish and Scots roots). Similar costumes were worn by wren boys in Kerry. There are also references to the White Boys and others. The conical headgear (stiffened, perhaps, with leather or buckram) would diguise the wearer's height and the robes his clothing. Even the horses were sometimes robed, since they could also be recognized. As for the fiery cross, I thought that it was carried by a runner in Scotland, not erected and set alight as the KKK does things. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: InOBU Date: 16 Mar 04 - 12:35 PM I may be tarred and feathered for this stretch... but here goes...SORCHA DORCHA will be at the HALF KING restaurant and pub, this Wends. Saint Patrick's Day on 23rd street between 10th and 11th Ave. from 7 pm to 10 ... As expected Lorcan Otway on vocals uilleann pipes flute whistle bodhran and the great Jane Kelton on flute whistle and key board, Seanin An Fear on Mandolin, Joe Charupakorn on guitar... the joint is already rumbling, so stay from Give us a drink of water to An Phis Fluich, all yer ol' favs... Cheers, Is mise, le meas, Lorcan Otway |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: HuwG Date: 16 Mar 04 - 01:03 PM There was a Welsh tradition, similar to "riding on a rail", named the "Ceffly pren", which translates literally as "wooden horse". To quote the best book on the Rebecca Riots (1839 - 1844) I have read, "And they blessed Rebecca" by Pat Molloy (pub. Gomer Press, 1984): "[The ceffyl pren was] the old Welsh method of frightening or punishing those who had offended against the strong rural sense of morality and justice and of righting the wrongs they had done; of carrying in rowdy procession on the wooden horse, and then burning the effigy of, such offenders as adulterers, harsh landlords and the fathers of bastard children who, hiding behind the provisions of the new Poor Law which made the mother entirely responsible for her own predicament, failed to face up to their moral obligations. And riotous affairs they were. Frightening and embarrasing - and not infrequently physically painful - to their victims, but great occasions for letting off steam in exciting nocturnal rides in boisterous company. And for coming home at daybreak with that marvellous feeling of self-righteousness born of doing the Lord's work for him in punishing the wicked." On this evidence, the tradition of riding on a rail or similar seems to be found in Ireland, Scotland and Wales and is therefore Celtic in origin, but has had various literal interpretations of scripture superimposed. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Lighter Date: 16 Mar 04 - 01:05 PM Probably the most celebrated instance of tarring & feathering in American literature happens in Nathaniel Hawthorn's story "My Kinsman, Major Molineaux." A young guy from the country shows up in 18th C. Boston to visit the Governor, a relative of his. He's pretty proud of himself since everyone he meets nods knowingly when he drops Molineaux's name. Molineaux will be his ticket to social and financial success. Imagine the lad's dislilusionment when these very same citizens tar and feather Molineaux and run him out of town at the end of the story for being a bad, bad, bad governor. In the words of Joseph Conrad, "Ah, youth!" |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Joe_F Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:43 PM Another well-known literary tarring & feathering is "Skipper Ireson's Ride" by John Greenleaf Whittier. As it is often sung, it surely belongs here. However, according to a character in _Captains Courageous_ by Rudyard Kipling, the story as told by Whittier is a libel; so in fairness I am including his correction here as well: SKIPPER IRESON'S RIDE by John Greenleaf Whittier Of all the rides since the birth of time, Told in story or sung in rhyme, -- On Apuleius's Golden Ass, Or one-eyed Calendar's horse of brass, Witch astride of a human hack, Islam's prophet on Al-Borak, -- The strangest ride that ever was sped Was Ireson's, out from Marblehead! Old Floyd Ireson, for his hard heart, Tarred and feathered and carried in a cart By the women of Marblehead! Body of turkey, head of owl, Wings a-droop like a rained-on fowl, Feathered and ruffled in every part, Skipper Ireson stood in the cart. Scores of women, old and young, Strong of muscle, and glib of tongue, Pushed and pulled up the rocky lane, Shouting and singing the shrill refrain: "Here's Flud Oirson, fur his horrd horrt, Torr'd an' futherr'd an' corr'd in a corrt By the women o' Morble'ead!" Wrinkled scolds with hands on hips, Girls in bloom of cheek and lips, Wild-eyed, free-limbed, such as chase Bacchus round some antique vase, Brief of skirt, with ankles bare, Loose of kerchief and loose of hair, With conch-shells blowing and fish-horns' twang, Over and over the Maenads sang: "Here's Flud Oirson, fur his horrd horrt, Torr'd an' futherr'd an' corr'd in a corrt By the women o' Morble'ead!" Small pity for him! -- He sailed away From a leaking ship, in Chaleur Bay, -- Sailed away from a sinking wreck, With his own town's-people on her deck! "Lay by! Lay by!" they called to him. Back he answered, "Sink or swim! Brag of your catch of fish again!" And off he sailed through the fog and rain! Old Floyd Ireson, for his hard heart, Tarred and feathered and carried in a cart By the women of Marblehead! Fathoms deep in dark Chaleur That wreck shall lie forevermore. Mother and sister, wife and maid, Looked from the rocks of Marblehead Over the moaning and rainy sea, -- Looked for the coming that might not be! What did the winds and the sea-birds say Of the cruel captain who sailed away? -- Old Floyd Ireson, for his hard heart, Tarred and feathered and carried in a cart By the women of Marblehead! Through the street, on either side, Up flew windows, doors swung wide; Sharp-tongued spinsters, old wives gray, Treble lent the fish-horn's bray. Sea-worn grandsires, cripple-bound, Hulks of old sailors run aground, Shook head, and fist, and hat, and cane, And cracked with curses the hoarse refrain: "Here's Flud Oirson, fur his horrd horrt, Torr'd an' futherr'd an' corr'd in a corrt By the women o' Morble'ead!" Sweetly along the Salem road Bloom of orchard and lilac showed. Little the wicked skipper knew Of the fields so green and the sky so blue. Riding there in his sorry trim, Like an Indian idol glum and grim, Scarcely he seemed the sound to hear Of voices shouting, far and near: "Here's Flud Oirson, fur his horrd horrt, Torr'd an' futherr'd an' corr'd in a corrt By the women o' Morble'ead!" "Hear me, neighbors!" at last he cried, -- "What to me is this noisy ride? What is the shame that clothes the skin To the nameless horror that lives within? Waking or sleeping, I see a wreck, And hear a cry from a reeling deck! Hate me and curse me, -- I only dread The hand of God and the face of the dead!" Said old Floyd Ireson, for his hard heart, Tarred and feathered and carried in a cart By the women of Marblehead! Then the wife of the skipper lost at sea Said, "God has touched him! why should we?" Said an old wife mourning her only son, "Cut the rogue's tether and let him run!" So with soft relentings and rude excuse, Half scorn, half pity they cut him loose, And gave him a cloak to hide him in, And left him alone with his shame and sin. Poor Floyd Ireson, for his hard heart, Tarred and feathered and carried in a cart By the women of Marblehead! ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From _Captains Courageous_ by Rudyard Kipling: ...Then they called on Harvey, who felt very flattered, to contribute to the entertainment; but all that he could remember were some pieces of "Skipper Ireson's Ride" that he had been taught at the camp-school in the Adirondacks. It seemed that they might be appropriate to the time and place, but he had no more than mentioned the title when Disko brought down one foot with a bang, and cried, "Don't go on, young feller. That's a mistaken jedgment -- one o' the worst kind, too, becaze it's catchin' to the ear." "I orter ha' warned you," said Dan. "Thet allus fetches Dad." "What's wrong?" said Harvey, surprised and a little angry. "All you're goin' to say," said Disko. "All dead wrong from start to finish, and Whittier he's to blame. I have no special call to right any Marblehead man, but 'tweren't no fault of Ireson's. My father he told me the tale time an' again, an' this is the way 'twuz." "For the wan hundredth time," put in Long Jack under his breath. "Ben Ireson he was skipper o' the _Betty_, young feller, comin' home from the Banks -- that was before the war of 1812, but jestice is jestice at all times. They f'und the _Active_ o' Portland, an' Gibbons o' that town he was her skipper; they f'und her leakin' off Cape Cod Light. There was a terr'ble gale on, an' they was gettin' the _Betty_ home fast as they could craowd her. Well, Ireson he said there warn't any sense to reskin' a boat in that sea; the men they wouldn't hev it; and he laid it before them to stay by the _Active_ till the sea run daown a piece. They wouldn't hev that either, hangin' araound the Cape in any sech weather, leak or no leak. They jest up stays'l an' quit, nat'rally takin' Ireson with 'em. Folks to Marblehead was mad at him for not runnin' the risk, and becaze nex' day, when the sea was ca'am (they never stopped to think o' _that_), some of the _Active's_ folks was took off by a Truro man. They come into Marblehead with their own tale to tell, sayin' how Ireson had shamed his town, an' so forth an' so on; an' Ireson's men they was scared, seein' public feelin' agin' 'em, an' they went back on Ireson, an' swore he was respons'ble for the hull act. 'Tweren't the women neither that tarred and feathered him -- Marblehead women don't act that way -- 'twas a passel o' men an' boys, an' they carted him araound town in an old dory till the bottom fell aout, and Ireson he told 'em they'd be sorry for it some day. Well, the facts come aout later, same's they usually do, too late to be any way useful to an honest man; and Whittier he come along an' picked up the slack eend of a lyin' tale, an' tarred and feathered Ben Ireson all over onct more after he was dead. 'Twas the only time Whittier ever slipped up, an' 'tweren't fair. I whaled Dan good when he brought that piece back from school. _You_ don't know no better, o' course; but I've give you the facts, hereafter an' evermore to be remembered. Ben Ireson were'nt no sech kind o' man as Whittier makes aout; my father he knew him well, before an' after that business, an' you beware o' hasty jedgments, young feller. Next!" Harvey had never heard Disko talk so long, and collapsed with burning cheeks; but, as Dan said promptly, a boy could only learn what he was taught at school, and life was too short to keep track of every lie along the coast. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:21 PM I reckon that might sing pretty well, with the right tune, and maybe topped and tailed a bit. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: michaelr Date: 17 Mar 04 - 01:24 AM What a great story! I should kipple more often... Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Joe_F Date: 17 Mar 04 - 05:40 PM _Captains Courageous_ is one of my favorite books. I didn't read it till I was 40; I wish I had read it when I was the hero's age, and it might have done me some good. ObMudcat: There are quite a few scraps of songs in it. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,featherhead Date: 25 Aug 04 - 08:57 PM just read the mail and can tell you guys that in 1993 I was tarred and feathered and run out of Pigeon Foprge, Tennessee for swindling. The rail split me open but a couple took me to the hospital after I was found in the road. The doctors used kerosine to remove the tar. A hell of a trip and one I won't ever forget. I did time for the swindle too.They still do these kinds of things in some parts of Tennessee. Anyone out there remember me? I could never go back to Pigeon Forge but I'm here in Knoxville and nobody knows. Tarring and feathering is pure hell. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered & scalping From: Joe Offer Date: 25 Aug 04 - 09:08 PM I've always thought the tar must have been hot, and that the victim must have suffered some pretty serious burns - no? I've also wondered about scalping - did the victims always die? This page (click) gives a description, but doesn't say whether the scalpees were alive or dead - before or after the scalping. Anybody have a copy of the Oxford Dictionary of Torture and Sadism? -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Cluin Date: 25 Aug 04 - 09:11 PM featherhead, ouch! No Joe, the scalped didn't always die and definitely weren't always dead when it was done to them. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,featherhead Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:06 PM thanks for posting my message. Cluin, ouch is the right word. the body hair never grows back and i am impotent thanks to the rail ride. bummer. thanks again. how can i get to be a regular and not just a guest? I made the newspapers here in Tennessee but I never got to send messages to folks on the internet. Country boy gets into the 21st century.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 25 Aug 04 - 11:55 PM Just read in the Legal Briefs of the latest issue of "American Indian Art" that a scalp was repatriated under the NAGPRA law from a museum to the Indian Confederation from which it had been taken. No, the scalp was not that of a white. Intriguing question about survival of scalpees. Don't recall seeing any statistics. I presume most victims were already dead when the scalp was collected. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:46 AM I had heard that the Indians picked up the habit of scalping from the white men. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:51 AM History tells us that in the French and Indian Wars, both the French and the British troops encouraged their Indian allies to collect scalps as proof of their success against the enemy. I don't know if the white soldiers were encouraged in the same practice. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Lonesome EJ Date: 26 Aug 04 - 01:47 AM I have always heard that the Clan wore the white hood and robe to portray the ghosts of dead Confederate soldiers back for revenge. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,featherhead Date: 26 Aug 04 - 08:04 AM sent my application and info. did you guys get it? am I in? hope it is alright. never saw a site like this one and i'm glad I found it. Didn't know so many folks were interested in this subject. I am greatful and don't feel so out of place after what went down in l993. thanks guys. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,mick sans cookie Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:16 AM wish I could do the blue clicky thing. The "funny old world" story below is worth reading for a laugh. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content/showitem.cfm/issue.1113/section.fow |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:15 PM Joe: regards the tarring and feathering "hurting" ... yeah, it sure did. the tar was hot and the rail ride cut my crotch open. the feathers didn't hurt a bit. worse than the tarring was the "cleaning up" process. the doctors decided to use kerosine instead of turpentine. my skin was sore for weeks and the tar blistered and burned me. another factor was the embarassment I went through. in the ER everyone was shocked and amused. some folks made jokes and I got some rude remarks from staff and the cops. It was not much fun. The whole thing took three weeks to get through. I still have bad feelings about the experience. All this because of a scam. Weird. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Cluin Date: 26 Aug 04 - 03:32 PM So what are the legalities surrounding the practice, featherhead? I assume tarring & feathering and riding someone out of town on a rail is illegal; it's basically vigilantism, right? Was anyone every caught or punished for doing it to you? Also did you face any charges or did they feel you'd suffered enough? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 26 Aug 04 - 07:04 PM Hey Cluin: yeah, tarring and feathering someone and riding them on a rail IS illegal but when the victim is considered a criminal then the cops look the other way and most folks approve. It is basix vigilantism, The folks who done it to me were known to everyone including the police and they weren't arrested. Mabe they got a medal for it. I faced felony charges and did three years in prison here in Tennessee. I ran the scam and paid for it ... twice. Still, I think that while I deserved some punishment, this whole scene was too much. What do you think? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Bill D Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:28 PM I think you should have run your scam, if you HAD to, in someplace like Minnesota or Oregon, where the locals don't have such a rich history and good 'ol boy attitude... |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: Cluin Date: 26 Aug 04 - 09:36 PM Not knowing what the scam is that you ran, I'd still have to say you paid for it in spades... and then some. There are people that have committed murder that got off a lot lighter. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 27 Aug 04 - 06:41 AM thanks guys. next time I get the itch to run a scam I will do it in some other State. Us Tennessee red necks play rough. I scammed a local church out of $50,000.00 and got caught. Aside from the tarring and feathering I did 3 years in prison. I got scars from the tar and I am impotent from the raqil ride. Also I can not show my face in Pigeon Forge. I paid like you say buddy, "in spades" |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: SINSULL Date: 27 Aug 04 - 05:09 PM Isn't that the home of Dolly Parton's Theme Park? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: David Ingerson Date: 27 Aug 04 - 05:24 PM In Vardis Fisher's historical novel, Mountain Man (on which the movie Jeremiah Johnson was based), one of the characters, a white mountain man, is named Skelp because he had been scalped in his younger days. He went through the rest of his life with no skin on the top of his head and his skull... well, his skull stuck out of the top of his head. Didn't seem to bother him much except that he always had to wear an extra thick hat in the winter. David |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 27 Aug 04 - 06:52 PM Sinsull: yeah. Dollywood. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 27 Aug 04 - 10:26 PM Don't know much aboout scalping except that the "scalper" cut a piece of the scalp from the front of the victim's head and then showed it as a sign of victory. I'm not even sure that this is right. Can anyone tell me how to fix my name on this site? It's FEATHERHEAD. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,.gargole Date: 27 Aug 04 - 11:17 PM Peculiar...thread topic "the exersenory spider-sence" is working over-time."
I was once on the (intended) recieving-end for such a petrolem/poultry ritual. (No-doubt....some MC citizens....believe I must have been worthy of the honor.)
It is tale worthy to be told....but not within the (current inhostpitableMC context)... espescially.....six months prior to a national election.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 27 Aug 04 - 11:27 PM HANDS DOWN....
One of the most demonical celebrations of the the T&F practice can be found within the story, by Edgar Alen Poe....of Hop Toad
It is best read in the morning hours....and not before bedtime.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 28 Aug 04 - 03:16 AM Hey Gargoyle: Howdy. Read Poe's short story. Great read. Also, "the system of dr. tarr and professor fether" ... great stuff. Never thought that I'd be on the receiving end of such an experience. You at least missed out on the "fun". Great. You must have some powerful luck. Wwish I did when my turn came for the tar brush. Hope you're well. Take care. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 30 Aug 04 - 09:58 PM Hey folks: I wish that one or more of you could drop me a personal message. I feel like an "undesireable" because as soon as I got into your message room, the messages stopped. Hope I didn't bother anyone with my personal account and other messages. Am I too sensitive? Sincerely, Featherhead. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 30 Aug 04 - 10:08 PM My Dearest - above registered poster (imposter?)
As a .gargoyle...."personae ingratae" I am not permitted the privilage of a private post-mark.
Nor, would I encourage any MC'er to "trust" the integrity of the MudCat's code of Integrity....clones, clones, clones>
However, if your wish to reach me.....for stories of MC hearasy....try....:
gargoyle@fcbayern.de
several dozen more addresses are available....however, PLEASE do not use your "real address" (since spammers abound....searching the MC files around.) |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 30 Aug 04 - 10:10 PM Dearest fshamuseatherhead
Please post your e-mail address....we will hav fun together....as we undress.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 31 Aug 04 - 12:44 AM Hey Gargoyle: thanks for the messages. It was nice hearing from you. I'm sorry that you think that I'm an imposter (is that what you meant?) because, unfortunately what I wrote is the truth. Take care and stay well. Sincerely, Featherhead |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 31 Aug 04 - 06:58 AM No insult intended fshamuseatherhead. I would delight in writing you. You may contact me at gargoyle@fcbayern.de. I'll tell you my tail.
Sincerely, |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 31 Aug 04 - 08:33 AM Hey Gargoyle: thanks for the message and the e mail address. Ill contact you this morning. I sure would like to hear your tale. Sorry I thought that there was a insult involved. Peace, brother. Sincerely, Featherhead. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:29 AM Hey guys: I thought that if anyone wanted to send me a message they could do it through mudcat.org. However, if anyone wants to write me and just say howdy or ask anything, then my address is: doncollins123@AOL.com. Hell, I don't have any secrets and would like to chat with anyone. Thanks guys. Sincerely, Don Collins (aka "featherhead." |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 01 Sep 04 - 08:01 PM to Greg: thanks buddy for the message but unfortunately, I don't know how to retrieve it (is that the right word?). There isn't any instructions on how to get into a guy's personal message box. Nothing that I could understand. Sent you another note and hope to head from you on this board, telling me how to reach you for a reply. Hell, you can reach me on my e mail address (now, that's wild ... me with a e mail address). Thanks for taking time to contact me. After what happened, some folks recognize me from pictures in the papers, gossip, and then I got to move or go through more hell. Thanks buddy. |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: greg stephens Date: 02 Sep 04 - 03:17 AM fshamuseatherhead: you must have got close, to realise I've sent you a message. The procedure is 1) Click on the box above the threads on the main forum page, where it will say "you have x messages". 2) You will then see a list of your messages. Scroll down and it will say greg stephens hi(or something like that) 3) Click on the "hi". You will then read my message or 4)Click on "greg stephens" and you will be able to reply to me |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: GUEST,occasionalvisitor Date: 02 Sep 04 - 08:52 AM Returning almost to the original theme. Is the expression "tarred with the same brush" - as in "he and his brother are tarred with the same brush" - in any way connected to being tarred and feathered? |
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Subject: RE: Folklore: Tarred and feathered From: fshamuseatherhead Date: 02 Sep 04 - 10:45 AM thanks for getting back on the subject under discussion. My understanding is that to be tarred is to be identified and marked as an undesireable, anti-social or just a plain criminal. The mob usually uses a brush to apply the tar (like a paint brush). A person who is "tarred with the same brush" is a person (I think) who is accused of being connected to an unpopular act committed by another person. At least, this is my understanding. I guess that it is somehow connected with tarring and feathering. |
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