Origins: Amazing Grace

Subject: Amazing Grace
From: MotoZulli
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 12:48 PM

I'm collecting lyrics to the song Amazing Grace, if anyone has any others i would love to see them. also any lyrics to any songs in the same category as Amazing Grace (ex: swing low sweet chariot) or if anyone knows any web sites where i could find info about these songs. i have the following verses already to amazing grace: " Amazing grace, how sweet the sound...." "The earth shall be dissolved like snow..." "And when this mortal life shall fail..." When we've been there ten thousand years..." "twas grace that taught my heart to fear..." "the lord has promised good to me..." "Through many dangers toils and snares..."

if anyone can help me email at [e-mail] Thankyou!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Gene
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 01:46 PM


*TRY HERE*

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 02:09 PM

Try to find a copy of Olney Hymns, that's where John Newton first published his song. I forgot when it was published, somewhere around 1770.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 04:56 PM

I too am collecting verses to Amazing Grace and I have 13 verses so far (including the refrain). Will post them when I'm not in such a rush to get out of work.

What I've found, however, is that there are a few "all purpose" verses that show up in many melodies, including Amazing Grace and other songs.

The Cyber Hymnal has many of the kind of songs you are looking for:

http://tch.simplenet.com/Default.htm

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Yuri Lopez
Date: 30 Sep 98 - 08:53 PM

Hello all. I'm searching for some definitions of spirtuals or their history. If anyone could help me I'd really appreciate it.

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 12:53 PM

These are the verses I have. I would appreciate anyone posting any other verses to this GREAT song.

There are lots of different ways to perform the song, too. Bill Moyers did a special on Amazing Grace on public television, which showed many different groups and all kinds of interpretations. I like it bluegrass style, and also bluesy. Or any other way.

Amazing Grace
John Newton & Wm Walker

(Chorus)
G C G
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
D A D7
That saved a wretch like me
G C G
I once was lost but now I'm found
Em D7 G C G D7
Was blind but now I see.

'twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did the grace appear
The hour I first believed.

Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come
It's grace that brought me safe thus far
And grace will lead me home.

When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Then when we first begun.

How long, dear Saviour, oh how long
Have I on earth to stay?
Roll on, roll on, ye wheels of time
And bring that joyful day.

The Lord has promised good to me
His word my hope secures
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.

How sweet the name of Jesus sounds
In a believer's ear
It soothes his sorrows, heals his wounds
And drives away his fear.

Must Jesus bear the cross along
And all the world go free?
No, there's a cross for everyone
And there's a cross for me.



We lay our garments by
Upon our beds to rest
'though death may soon disrobe us all
Of what we now possess.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail
And mortal life shall cease
I shall possess, within the veil
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow
The sun forbear to shine
But God, who called me here below
Will be forever mine.

Amazing grace has set me free
To touch, to taste, to feel
The wonders of accepting love
Have made me whole and real.

The world shall soon to ruin go
The sun refuse to shine
But God, who called me here below
Shall be forever mine.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: JVZ
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 01:49 PM

Let's not forget:

Shall I be wafting to the sky,
On flowery beds of ease.
While others strive to win the prize,
And sail on bloody seas.

(Note that it has reference to John Newton's early years as a slave ship's captain)

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:00 PM

If you click here, you'll see that the database has only six verses (if you don't count our Gaelic version and two parodies, 1 and 2). Barbara Shaw and JVZ added several. If anybody has others, please share them with us. Our hymnal at church has only the usual verses - it would be nice to have some others to throw in when the priest is slow....
Hey, we could have an "Amazing Grace marathon"!!!
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:06 PM

JVZ, Interesting, that the verse you posted is a verse I've heard in the song "Am I a Soldier of the Cross" which is also known as "Sea of Galillee" on the thread called CARTER FAMILY LYRICS. Like I said, a lot of these songs use "all purpose verses."

Anyway, that sounds like a good verse to add to my list of (now) 14!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 01 Oct 98 - 03:08 PM

Put 'Amazing Grace' in a search engine on the web, and you'll even find a version in Scots Gaelic.

'Olney Hymns' was published in 1779. Does anyone know exactly how "Amazing Grace" was given there?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Shazza
Date: 03 Oct 98 - 07:33 AM

lovely

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 12:21 PM

Joe, actually we've had a few Amazing Grace marathons, and it can be really amazing. After a dozen or so verses with multiple instruments, do some a cappella, and then one last rousing voice and instrument chorus. Goosebumps.

Hey guys, no fair! I was hoping to get some more verses for MY collection! Doesn't anyone else have any? I've been told that there are many more . . . Maybe some of you could make up some? This could be the folk process on-line.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: dusterjim
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 02:34 PM

There are a total of 17 verses to Amazing Grace. They were listed in a biography of John Newton that I read once, however I am unable to locate the book again (nor did I copy down the verses) Jim

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bruce O.
Date: 05 Oct 98 - 04:37 PM

For the original six verses of John Newton's "Amazing Grace", in 'Olney Hymns', just CLICK

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: H.Dulcimer
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 12:39 PM

Not another verse, but have you ever sung Amazing Grace to the tune of "The Happy Wanderer?"

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 06:43 PM

What do you use for the refrain? Val-de-ri, val-de-ra?

Thanks, Bruce!

Here's the only other verse I've heard, Barbara. I hope you appreciate the strain of remembering it for you. Maybe it works best toward the end of a marathon.

Praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God, praise God,
Praise God, praise God, praise God.

Yuri, spirituals are the religious songs of the black slaves in the U.S. (and maybe blacks shortly after they were freed, also). "Swing Low, Sweet Chariot" is definitely in that category. "Amazing Grace" was adopted into it but (as Barbara Shaw noted) can be sung in many other styles too, including mainline Protestant hymn-singing.

You and MotoZulli can find 28 spirituals by searching the database for @spiritual.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Roger Himler
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 07:26 PM

A friend of mine taught me that Amazing Grace could be sung to The House of the Rising Sun. I often perform it that way. It is a wonderful melding of blues and spiritual. I find it helps me to listen to the words and what they mean. The obverse is possible, but it holds no value to me.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 06 Oct 98 - 08:54 PM

Thanks, Jerry! You should rest now. That verse of yours sounds like a marathon all by itself . . . I'm still holding out, though, for the other 3 verses that must still be out there somewhere.

I do like the idea of Amazing Grace to the melody of House of the Rising Sun, as a change. Or maybe, the lyrics of House of the Rising Sun to the tune of Amazing Grace?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: T in Oklahoma
Date: 19 Aug 99 - 10:24 PM

FYI: When Chad Smith was sworn in last Saturday as Principal Chief of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, one of the songs perfomed as part of the celebration (so the radio report leads me to believe) was "Amazing grace", sung in Cherokee to the usual tune, New Britain.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 12:26 PM

You can also sing it to the theme from "Gilligan's Island." But don't bother trying to keep a straight face.

I'm looking for the origin of the "When we've been there 10,000 years" verse. I'm told it's not John Newton's. Judy Collis sang it, but does anyone happen to know where she got it?

This question came up on the [e-mail] list and has already been bandied about among the experts there (shapenotes and hymnals experts).

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: DougR
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:02 PM

I can remember that verse from the Broadman Hymnal over fifty years ago. That's about all I know about it.

DougR

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Walter Corey
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 01:34 PM

The Scottish Psalter version of the 23d Psalm is sung to Amazing Grace

The Lord's my shepherd, I'll not want
He makes me down to lie
In pastures green He leadeth me
The quiet waters by

My soul he doth restore again
& me to walk doth make
Within the paths of rightousness
E'en for His own name's sake

Yea though I walk in death's dark vale
Yet will I fear no ill
For Thou art with me & Thy rod
& staff my comfort still

My table Thou hast furnished
In presence of my foes
My head Thou dost with oil anoint
& my cup overflows

Goodness & mercy all my life
Shall surely follow me
& in God's house forevermore
My dwelling place shall be

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: kimmers
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 04:39 PM

I've heard it (Amazing Grace) sung to the Gilligan's Island theme, as mentioned above. It is indeed quite silly but the kids love it. We did it on the guitar complete with key changes and all; it was a blast.

Now, (warning! thread creep) one of my fellow re-enactors mentioned the other night that you can sing "The Minstrel Boy" to the tune of Gilligan's Island! Horrors!!

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 07:23 PM

Judy Collins got the 10,000 years verse in church. It's been in many hymnals published since 1910. So far as I know the earliest version of Amazing Grace with 10K years with it is in World Renowned Hymns, c1909 the arrangement was done by E.O. Excell. Excell did not write the verse, it is what is called a 'wandering' verse that had been attached as appropriate (or not as the case may be) to other hymns in the 19th century. The first time the words Amazing Grace were paired with the tune most of us know, that should go by the name New Britain, was The Southern Harmony, 1835.

The commentary to end all commentaries on this hymn is in The Hymnal 1982 Companion, (Episcopalian) it was done by Marion Hatchett. I am indebted to his article & some personal correspondence for the above & rest of this information. I've already given the most important.

A discussion on the fasola list a couple of years ago revealed that Hatchett had located the most commonly known version, including the 10,000 years verse as the 4th in a 1910 publication, arranged by E.O. Excell. I own a copy of World Renowned Hymns that I purchased for $0.75. I was pleasantly surprised to discover when I asked about it back then, that I was able to make a small contribution to scholarship on the hymn by changing that date to 1909. Some commentaries, including the Broadman (I think), mention a 1900 arrangement. It is also by Excell, but is slightly different & does not have the 10K verse.

Some books give the Sacred Harp as the source for the 10K verse because it was added to a different Common Meter hymn. My recollection of the commentary is that it has been found much earlier as an added verse to Jerusalem My Happy Home.

Except for the 1909 date, the commentary I mentioned above has all the details along with tracing the various versions of the tune beginning in the 1829. If seeing variant versions of tunes is your thing, it also reproduces 2 different ones found in 1829 Columbia Harmony.

I like that 23rd Psalm version to New Britain. I like Amazing Grace to the Sacred Harp tune Hallelujah & I like the words usually done to Hallelujah to a recently composed tune called Hallelujah New.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Bugsy
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 08:59 PM

Don't forget the Soccer verse.

"One Nil, One nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil, One nil,
"One Nil, One nil, One nil.

CHeers

bugsy

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Gypsy
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 09:13 PM

creep...creep...creep...am i the only one who heard it on Prairie Home Companion sung to the tune of the Mickey Mouse Club? Had a dickens of a time at church the following day......

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,Miriam (was "Guest")
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:14 PM

Thanks for reminding me! I did hear the "Mickey Mouse Club" version on PHC!

Thanks everyone for your answers, especially Burke. I could spend every hour of my life on Mudcat list, which is why I mostly stay away.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Oct 00 - 11:15 PM

Thanks for reminding me! I did hear the "Mickey Mouse Club" version on PHC!

Thanks everyone for your answers, especially Burke. I could spend every hour of my life on Mudcat list, which is why I mostly stay away.

Miriam ("Guest" because I can't log in)

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE (John Newton)
From:
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 01:14 PM

that's easy

here they are

Amazing grace how sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost but now I'm found
was blind But now I see

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
And grace my fears relieved
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed

Through many dangers toils and snares
We have already come
'Twas grace that brought us safe thus far
And grace will lead us home

We've been there ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 05 Dec 00 - 05:34 PM

The choir at my church sang Amazing Grace to Wimoweh last weekend.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Ringer
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 05:58 AM

JVZ's verse, "Shall I be wafting to the sky...": don't I remember that appearing in Tom Saywer?

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: LR Mole
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 09:23 AM

AND a lot of Emily Dickenson ("Because I could not stop for death..." AND "Casey at the Bat" AND "Old Ironsides" ("Ay, tear her tattered ensign down...") AND "The Rhyme of the Ancient Mariner". I just hit the wrong thing so I hope this only shows up once. M-U-D-C-A-T R-U-L-E-S.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 06 Dec 00 - 12:22 PM

"Shall I be wafted" is a corruption of the second verse of Isaac Watt's "Am I a soldier of the cross"

Am I a Soldier of the Cross?
A follower of the Lamb,
And shall I fear to own His cause,
Or blush to speak His name?

Must I be carried to the skies
On flowery beds of ease,
While others fought to win the prize,
And sailed through bloody seas?

For Newton's original 6 verses see Olney Hymns Other additional verses from other sources are part of the folk process & fine to sing, just don't say they are Newton's version. Of the 13 verses given by Barbara, the originals are 1,2,3,6,10,11. See my earlier post for 4; 13 is a variant of 11. 5,6,7,8,9 I recognize as verses from other hymns. Mostly by Watts, but I'd have to dig to be sure. Some might be by Newton, just part of different hymns. 12 I've never seen before but it sounds like a newish verse written to go along with the rest of AG.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:46 PM

Here's some additional information I found.

"In an unpublished study of this tune, Marion Hatchett (of the School of Theology, University of the South, Sewanee, Tennessee) provided reproductions of no less than seventeen versions. ... This tune was known not only in a variety of versions but also by a variety of names, and it was associated with a number of texts other than "Amazing Grace" in its early history--Hatchett associated it with seventeen different texts. William Walker, who called this tune NEW BRITAIN, was the first to publish it as a setting for "Amazing Grace" in his Southern Harmony of 1835. Among the texts associated with this tune in Hatchett's study, only Johnson set it to "Alas! And Did My Savior Bleed."" (Andrew W. Johnson's version was published in several books in the 1830's & 1840's with the tune name 'Symphony')

Eskew, Harry. "Andrew W. Johnson's The Eclectic Harmony: A Middle Tunebook in Middle Tennessee." in Notes v. 58 no. 2 (Dec. 2001) p. 291-301.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Wyrd Sister
Date: 14 Dec 01 - 02:50 PM

Of course, this IS one of the tunes used for "While Shepherds Watched" sometimes.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 06 Feb 02 - 03:02 AM

Note this post in another "Amazing Grace" thread, and particularly this link.

Liland

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 11 Sep 02 - 06:04 PM

You might find some of the information you see here

Amazing Grace

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Sep 02 - 11:59 PM

Er, George Seto etc., you linked back to the selfsame thread. Did you mean to send me or somebody elsewhere, and if so, where?

Haruo [formerly Liland]

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE (John Newton)
From: Genie
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:11 AM

Thanks for that link, Burke.  In case the link to Olney Hymns disappears (as some other of the above links have), here are the six original verses to John Newton's poem, as published in the Olney Hmnal:

Amazing Grace 
from Olney Hymns 1779  Lyrics: John Newton

Amazing grace! (how sweet the sound)
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, hut now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
'Tis grace has brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Will be for ever mine.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 01:26 AM

I'm not sure how reliable the ccel's Olney hymns are as to the minutiae and accidentals. For example, I strongly suspect that "hut" in v.1 l.3 was originally "but", and I'm inclined to think the capitalization scheme in my copy (http://www.geocities.com/cigneto/thctxt/en/amazinggr1.html) is closer to the original than theirs. However, I have a hunch their v.6 is more original than mine. I think my version's "hath" (v.3 l.3) and "Yea" (v.5 l.1) may be later archaizing rather than original, but I'd want to look at an actual "hard-copy" Olney Hymns before putting any money on it.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: EBarnacle1
Date: 13 Sep 02 - 11:13 AM

In April, I heard the Blind Boys of Alabama do Amazing Grace to the House of the Rising Sun Melody and was inspired to meld the two. It always feels powerful and gets a good response when I do it. Generally, as soon as the audience 'gets' the verse, they tend to join in. It sounds a bit ragged, as they are not used to the meter, but it works well.

Amazing Grace/Rising Sun E. Russell, April, 2002 Melody: House of the Rising Sun, two beats at a time, slowly, as though having trouble getting it out.

There is...a house...in New...Orleans, They call...the Ri...sing Sun; It's been...the ruin...of many...a poor lad... And God,... I know...I'm one.

My father...was...a gamb...lin' man, He lived...for Jacks...and Queens; My mother...was...a seam...stress, Sir, She sewed...my new...blue jeans.

Ama...zing Grace, how sweet...the sound That saved...a wretch..like me; I once...was lost..but now...I'm found, Was blind...but now...I see.

'Twas Grace...that taught...my heart...to fear And Grace...that fear...relieved How pre...cious did...that Grace...appear The hour...I first...believed.

Through many...dangers,...toils...and snares I have...already...come; 'Twas Grace...has brought...me safe...thus far And Grace...will bring...me home.

I'm go...ing back...to New...Orleans, My race...is al...most run; I'll spend...my nights...a-seek...ing Grace In the...House...of the Ri...sing Sun.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: rich-joy
Date: 15 Sep 02 - 04:01 AM

I found an article in a "Life Spirit" magazine a few years back, that suggested we reconsider the appropriateness of the words of "Amazing Grace" in these "enlightened" times and suggested the following hymn to the same tune (which, after all, almost everyone loves ...)
From the "Spiritualist's National Union" hymnbook, UK ...

IMMORTAL LOVE

Immortal love, forever full
Forever flowing free
Forever shared, forever whole
A never-ebbing sea.

Blow winds of God, awake and blow
The mists of earth away
Shine out, O light devine, and show
The realm of perfect day

The letter fails, the systems fall
And every symbol wanes
The spirit over-brooding all
Eternal Love remains.

Cheers! R-J

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 04:07 PM

I just added a Gaelic version of "Amazing Grace" to my online hymnal: Miorbhail Gràis. Have not been able to find an attribution regarding the translator, but if it was in Gaelic I might not recognize it. And I added a link to Jean Ritchie's Old Regular Baptist tune MIDI, for those who may just be plain ol' tired of New Britain.

Lìolaind/Haruo (ex-Liland)

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 07:03 PM

That's why English psalm & hymn singing traditionally named tunes independently of the words just because this interchanging of words and tunes was expected until relatively recently. In that earlier post I mentioned different 19th century version with different tune names.

One of those is Solon. You can find it at the Harmonia Sacra site. It's in an Adobe file on the bottom of p. 109. Here's the link direct to the Adobe file of p.101-100 Melody is in the tenor line.

I probably shouldn't include it in this message, but Hernando's Hideaway works as well.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 16 Sep 02 - 10:56 PM

Ah, well, Burke, "HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site."... I appreciate the thought, though.

Practically any CM tune'll do... ;-)

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 17 Sep 02 - 10:20 AM

The 2nd URL direct to the PDF doesn't work, but the instructions with the first one should. Just go there & follow the link to p.101-110.

Barbara

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 19 Sep 02 - 12:44 AM

Got it. Thanks,

Haruo

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,steve
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 04:50 AM

Anyone wanting to know more about 'Amazing Grace' should definitely get a copy of my book AMAZING GRACE:THE STORY OF AMERICA's MOST BELOVED SONG to be published by Ecco/HarperCollins on November 5 2002.
steve Turner

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: masato sakurai
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 06:54 AM

Steve, I'll order the book.
~Masato

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: 53
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 10:20 AM

One of the first songs that I learned to play on the guitar.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: 53
Date: 14 Oct 02 - 10:43 AM

this song is a good 3/4 time song.

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 10:59 AM

Today, Jan 19th, just after 11AM on Sunday Edition's third hour, the CBC has an interview with Steve Turner, the author of Amazing Grace: the story of America's Favourite Song. This is a book on the background of Amazing Grace and John Newton. There are some amazing clips of people who have sung the song. This discussion mentions John and Alan Lomax's collecting trips in the South.

One of the clips is Amazing Grace sung to the tune of House of the Rising Sun. Also covered is how the tune became a bagpipe standard.

Check at CBC for links to other time zones to catch the internet feed, if you aren't in Canada.

Charlottetown

Sydney

Whitehorse

Yellowknife

Vancouver

Calgary

Edmonton

Regina

Winnipeg

Toronto

Ottawa

http://windsor.cbc.ca/windsorlive.ram

St. John's

Halifax

Quebec City

Iqaluit

Moncton

Saint John

Montreal

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Jan 03 - 01:12 PM

Thanks a lot, George, for the links. I've just listend to the interview. Steve Turner talked about "Amazing Grace" in The Diane Rehm Show (see the thread: Amazing Grace: radio discussion online) in December, which is archived and can be heard HERE.

~Masato

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,Gary
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:47 PM

Please can anyone tell me where I can download this entire song of Amazing Grace in the Cherokee language?   It has about 8-10 verses, has drums in the background, is sung by a female and is beautiful to listen to. Also where can I purchase this song on CD? Appreciate any help.
Gary

Subject: RE: Amazing Grace
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:51 PM

Try This page as a start.

A

Subject: Lyr Add: Amazing Grace in Cheyenne
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Apr 04 - 12:23 AM

Enough with the Cherokee, already. Here is the text sung in Cheyenne at Watonga Indian Baptist Church, where my friend David Flick is the pastor. His note and respelling for anglophones follow the text.

Jesus netavovehone. Tse' ohkeameotsehaetse,
Tse' ohkevovohneh sehaetse oeseva! Hahoo, netahetone.

"The words are not the exact translation of the English hymn. Here is the way it might sound if you transliterated the hymn:

Je-sus, nay-da-voh-veh-hay-tone, Tsay-oh-kay-ah-may-oats-hast, Tsay-oh-keh-vo-voh-neh-sheh-hast-oh-shev! Ha-hoe, nay-dah-hay-tone."

Haruo

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From:
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 09:39 AM

A friend recently burned me a copy of a cd with the lyrics in French. I was able to follow most of it, but there are a few lines I can't make out. Does anyone know where I could find French lyrics?

Subject: Lyr Add: Amazing Grace in French
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 10:07 AM

Three sets are found.

(1) AMAZING GRACE

Surprenant pardon
Qu'il est doux le son
Qui a sauvé un misérable comme moi
J'étais égaré
Mais je me suis retrouvé
J'étais aveugle, mais maintenant je vois
   
C'est le pardon qui a enseigné
La crainte à mon coeur
Et le pardon a libéré mes peurs
Comme elle était précieuse
Cette apparition de pardon
L'heure à laquelle j'ai commencé à croire
   
Au travers de nombreux dangers
Labeurs et pièges
Nous avons déjà traversés
C'est le pardon qui nous a
Ainsi mis à l'abri
Et le pardon nous mènera à la maison
   
Dieu m'a promis
De bonnes choses
Ses mots m'ont remplis d'espoir
Il sera mon bouclier
Et (une partie de moi ?)
Aussi longtemps que la vie durera
   
Quand nous sommes venu ici
Un millier d'années
Brillaient autant que le soleil
Nous n'avons pas plus de jours
Pour chanter les louanges de Dieu
Que lorsque nous avons commencé
   
Surprenant pardon
Qu'il est doux le son
Qui a sauvé un misérable comme moi
J'étais égaré
Mais je me suis retrouvé
I see J'étais aveugle, mais maintenant je vois

(2) Amazing grace
   
Aimer quand meme
Aimer toujours
Malgré les peines d'amour
Malgré la haine
Malgré le temps
Aimer toujours autant

Aimer l'hiver
Aimer le feu
aimer le vert de tes yeux
Les pluies du nord
Les nuit du sud
Aimer la solitude

Aimer comme l'étoile
Des jours heureux
Comme un soldat
De l'univers
Qui va vers la lumière

Aimer quand meme
Aimer toujours
Malgré les peines d'amour
Malgré la haine
Malgré le vent
Aimer toujours autant

Amen

(3) Incroyable Pardon

Incroyable pardon ! Quelle douce voix que celle
De celui qui a sauvé un misérable tel que moi
J'étais égaré, mais à présent je me suis retrouvé
J'étais aveugle, mais à présent je vois.
   
C'était le pardon qui a appris la peur à mon cœur
Et le pardon a libéré mes peurs
Que fut précieuse cette apparition du pardon
Moment où j'ai commencé à avoir la foi.
   
De nombreux dangers, labeurs et pièges
J'ai déjà déjà traversé;
C'est le pardon qui m'a ainsi mis à l'abri
Et le pardon me guidera chez moi.
   
Le Seigneur m'a promis de bonnes choses
Ses paroles me remplissent d'espoir;
Il sera mon bouclier et vivra en moi
Aussi longtemps que la vie durera.
   
Quand cette chair et ce cœur faibliront,
Et que ma vie sur terre s'éteindra,
J'emporterai dans mon linceul,
Une vie de joie et de paix.
   
Quand nous sommes là depuis un millier d'années
A briller tout autant que le soleil,
Nous avons tout autant de jours pour chanter les louanges du seigneur
Que lorsque nous sommes apparus sur terre.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:19 PM

The Cowper and Newton Museum has a brief but correct article on the origin of "Amazing Grace" on their website pages. Amazing Grace
The curate of Olney Church (c. 1772) took as his text the opening words of David's Prayer in 1 Chronicles chapter 17. Then he explained how David came to that point in his life. "And all of that to one so insignificant, so unworthy."
"Reflecting upon the preserving grace of God to him in his turbulent seafaring days, Newton wrote a poem for that meeting to illustrate the gist of his message. He called it 'Of Faith's Review and Expectation.'
The six verses are the same as those in "The Olney Hymns" published in 1779, hymn 41, 1Chr 17:16, 17. Genie posted them 13 Sept. 02 in this thread (One error- the letter b is mis-set as h in but, verse 1, line 3).
The Table of Contents to "Olney Hymns" is here: Olney Index

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Aug 04 - 08:24 PM

Error-
Olney Hymns at http://www.ccel.org/n/newton/olneyhymns/olneyhymns/TOC.htm

Olney Index

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE
From: GUEST,SE
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 09:17 PM

I have 16 verses:

Amazing Grace (how sweet the sound)
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found:
Was blind but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,
And Grace my fears releived;
How precious did that grace appear,
The hour I first believed!

Through many dangers, toils, and snares,
I have already come;
'Tis Grace will lead me home.

Let God the Father, and the Son,
And Spirit be adored,
Where there are works to make Him known,
Or saints to love the Lord.

In evil long I took delight,
Unsaved by shame or fear,
Till a new object struck my sight,
And stoppedmy wild career.

I saw One hanging on a tree,
In agonies and blood,
Who fixed His languid eyes on me,
As near His cross I stood.

Sure, never till my latest breath
Can I forget that look:
It seemed to charge me with his death,
Though not a word he spoke.

My concience felt and owned the guilt;
And plunged me in despair;
I saw my sins His blood had spilled,
And helped to nail Him there.

Alas! I knew not what I did,--
But now my tears are vain:
Where shall my trembling soul be hid
For I the Lord have slain!

A second look he gave, which said
"I freely all forgive;
This blood is for thy ransom paid:
I die that thou mayest live."

Thus while His death my sins displays
In all its blackest hue,
Such is the mystery of Grace,
It seals my pardon, too.

The Lord has promis'd good to me;
His Word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.

Yes, when this heart and flesh shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall posess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, Who called me here below,
Shall be forever mine.

When we've been there ten thousand years,
Bright, shining as the sun,
We've no less daus to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun.

I do believe, I now believe,
That Jesus died for me;
And through His blood, His precious blood,
I shall from sin be free.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 10:18 PM

Interesting merger of 2 different Newton Hymns & an addendum by Charles Wesley. The folk process at work.

Hymn 57
John Newton
8,6,8,6
Looking at the cross.

In evil long I took delight,
Unawed by shame or fear;
Till a new object struck my sight,
And stopped my wild career.

I saw one hanging on a tree,
In agonies and blood;
Who fixed his languid eyes on me,
As near his cross I stood.

Sure, never till my latest breath,
Can I forget that look;
It seemed to charge me with his death,
Though not a word he spoke.

My conscience felt, and owned the guilt,
And plunged me in despair;
I saw my sins his blood had spilt,
And helped to nail him there.

Alas! I knew not what I did,
But now my tears are vain;
Where shall my trembling soul be hid?
For I the LORD have slain.

A second look he gave, which said,
"I freely all forgive;
This blood is for thy ransom paid,
I die, that thou may'st live."

Thus, while his death my sin displays,
In all its blackest hue;
(Such is the mystery of grace)
It seals my pardon too.

With pleasing grief and mournful joy,
My spirit now is filled;
That I should such a life destroy,
Yet live by him I killed.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 02 Nov 04 - 10:58 PM

I do believe, I now believe,
That Jesus died for me;
And through His blood, His precious blood,
I shall from sin be free.

This verse is listed in Cyberhymnal with a Charles Wesley hymn. It does not show up with that hymn at CCEL, or in the old Methodist hymnbook that I have. Google did turn it up with a different Charles Wesley hymn & as a single quoted verse in some literature. I think it may be an anonymous floating verse (or chorus), much like the 10,000 years verse.

Subject: Lyr Add: AMAZING GRACE (John Newton)
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:29 PM

I could have sworn I posted this compilation on one of the other threads devoted to this song, but now I can't find it:

Amazing grace, how sweet the sound                               1
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.

'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear,                        2
And grace my fears relieved;
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed.

The Lord has promised good to me;                               3
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be
As long as life endures.

Thro' many dangers, toils and snares                            4
I have already come;
'Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

How sweet the name of Jesus sounds                               5
In a believer's ear.
It soothes his sorrows, heals his wounds,
And drives away his fear.

Must Jesus bear the cross alone                                  6
And all the world go free?
No, there's a cross for ev'ry one,
And there's a cross for me.

The earth shall be dissolved like snow,                         7
The sun shall cease to shine;
But God, who called me here below,
Shall be forever mine.

And when this mortal life shall fail,                            8
And flesh and sense shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil
A life of joy and peace.

When we've been there ten thousand years,                        9
Bright shining like the sun,
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we first begun.

When I can read my title clear                                  10
To mansions in the skies,
I'll bid farewell to every fear
And wipe my weeping eyes.

Should earth against my soul engage                              11
And hellish darts be hurled,
Then I can smile at Satan's rage
And face a frowning world.

Let cares like a wild deluge come                               12
And storms of sorrow fall,
May I but safely reach my home,
My God, my Heaven, my All.

Amazing grace has set me free                                    13
To touch, to taste, to feel.
The wonders of accepting Love
Have made me whole and real.

Shall I be wafted to the skies                                  14
On flowery beds of ease,
While others strive to win the prize
And sail through bloody seas?

Alleluia, alleluia,                                              15
Alleluia, praise God!
Alleluia, alleluia,
Alleluia, praise God!

Stanzas 1-4, 9, & 13 are in _Rise Up Singing_, which says that 1-4
are by John Newton (1725-1807), 9 is by John P. Rees, and 13 is from the New York YM Quakers. Stanza 15 was formerly in _RUS_, but dropped in recent editions. Stanzas 1, 2, & 4-6 are in _The Folksinger's Wordbook_. Stanzas 7-12 are in _Uncle Tom's Cabin_.

I like stanza 9 too, partly because it anticipates Cantor's formal definition of infinity: that a proper subset can have the same cardinality as the set itself.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

I recall singing verse 15 years ago at church youth group type gatherings.

Most of the verses have been posted in some form before. See the link in Hauro's Feb. 6, 2003 message for the sources of most of the verses.

10-12 are also by
Isaac Watts. It's a great hymn. Southern Harmony & Sacred Harp have 6 different settings between them. Saint's Delight is one of my favorites.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,cowgirl_up_247365
Date: 11 Dec 04 - 07:59 PM

who is the original writer/artist of the song "Amazing Grace" and why are there some vereses missing from the song that are not sung?

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Haruo
Date: 12 Dec 04 - 03:31 AM

God is the original artist, cowgirl.

Burke, we usually sing "When I can read my title clear" to Pisgah at Fremont Baptist. Love it.

Haruo

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Burke
Date: 13 Dec 04 - 06:19 PM

Haruo, Pisgah is a great old folk hymn that works well with lots of Common Meter words. I've come across it in a number of newer hymnals. I took Ginny Hawker's Primitive Baptist singing at Augusta this summer. Some of the tunes she used were unfamiliar to me, but I did recognize Pisgah as one she did use. I'd have to look at my notes to see what words were used.

Cowgirl, given all the information already in this thread & the ones linked, it's really hard to help you unless you're more specific. As a tune it's a folk hymn with no identified original composer, and many identified adaptors and editors. I think most have already been mentioned. Unfortunately, the Harmonia Sacra seems to have gone missing.

In general, it's not uncommon to pare a hymn down to 4-5 verses no matter how long the original. Newton's original 6 verses have been added to & pared down both.

Subject: Amazing Grace in various languages
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 09 Apr 09 - 05:10 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYIjFtPQEk&feature=related You tube Cherokee.
click

Also one in Inuit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtNuELl5he0&feature=related
click

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 08:44 PM

John Newton wrote 6 stanzas. They first appeared in the hymnbook, Onley Hymns in 1779. It was written to be sung at New Years, and was originally titled, "Faith's Review and Expectation", being the thoughts of an aged man looking back on a life of God's grace. Oddly enough, three of Newton's stanzas are commonly omitted from American usage and the last stanza that is usually included is NOT by Newton.   It first appears in print as the concluding stanza of Amazing Grace in Harriet Beecher Stowe's anti-slavery novel as a folk addition, sung around the campfire.
The commonly missing stanzas:
----------------------------
The Lord has promised good to me,
His word my hope secures;
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea when this heart and flesh shall fail,
and mortal life shall cease;
I shall possess within the vail,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.
--------------------------

The "Day Is Past and Gone" lyrics have been reworked and appear as the following:

Christ Jesus is my Shepherd King,
Who ransoms from the fall;
I'll be clothed with His righteousness,
When death disrobes us all.

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:01 PM

I forgot to mention, that Newton's use of the word "wretch" was not at all poetic but reflected Newton's memory of his past. He was haunted by the shame of having been a slave ship captain, making cruel merchandise of human lives. His repentance of this life was not just emotional however but extended to practical and political action. John Newton, alongside Partlimentarian William Wilburforce, was one of the primary individuals responsible for the abolition of slavery in the British Isles, some 30 years before Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation. Some of this history is recorded in the fairly recent movie, Amazing Grace:

http://www.amazinggracemovie.com/castcrew_wilberforce.php

In this movie, Newton is shown as an elderly man and he makes the statement, "I have forgotten many things but there are two things I remember: that I am a great sinner and that Christ is a great Savior".

---

Please note that anonymous posting is no longer allowed at Mudcat. Use a consistent name [in the 'from' box] when you post, or your messages risk being deleted.
Thanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 09:47 PM

Genie posted the original six verses back in 13 Sept 02.

(Movies, of course, never distort history, they just present it as the director thinks we would like to see it).

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,Don B.
Date: 18 Apr 11 - 05:19 AM

Hi, just to avoid deletion, I am the "Guest" of a couple of postings back. Not sure why the name didn't get in before but as long as I'm here again, I might make clear that my words "the last stanza.. is NOT by Newton" is of course a reference to the "when we've been there ten thousand years" stanza.
If you really want to learn more about the history of this wonderful song and the life it has taken on through the many who have sung & recorded it, you might read "The Story of America's Most Beloved Song- Amazing Grace" by Steve Turner. It is around 360 pages in length and contains a ten page discography going back to 1926. You could also watch the Bill Moyers PBS documentary. I think it's just called "Amazing Grace".   A perhaps surprising source but actually rich in the history and the ongoing life of the song. Watching it, I first learned about the shape note singing tradition in the south and also enjoyed the personal interviews and performance clips by Jessye Norman, Johnny Cash, Judy Collins, Jean Ritchie, Marion Williams, and The Boys Choir of Harlem.
May you know the sweetness of God's amazing grace (it just gets sweeter & sweeter) and may I meet you "there" (hopefully before ten thousand years but who's going to be in a hurry?)

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,mike
Date: 11 May 12 - 02:58 PM

I saw some old black guys singing house of the rising sun to the tune of swing low sweet chariot on a religious show one day and thought it was great. Anyone know who they were?

Subject: RE: Origins: Amazing Grace
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 11 May 12 - 04:24 PM

i was told awhile back that the blind boys of alabama do it to the rising sun tune