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BS: Advice for treating bad back.....

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Bobert 19 Mar 04 - 10:13 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 19 Mar 04 - 12:13 AM
Art Thieme 18 Mar 04 - 10:32 PM
GUEST 18 Mar 04 - 08:02 AM
open mike 18 Mar 04 - 06:03 AM
Bobert 17 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM
Art Thieme 17 Mar 04 - 12:55 AM
catspaw49 16 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM
freightdawg 16 Mar 04 - 08:23 PM
The Fooles Troupe 16 Mar 04 - 07:51 PM
Bobert 16 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM
Deckman 16 Mar 04 - 07:31 PM
Amos 16 Mar 04 - 06:21 PM
Shanghaiceltic 16 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM
Bobert 16 Mar 04 - 05:43 PM
freightdawg 16 Mar 04 - 05:09 PM
GUEST 16 Mar 04 - 03:34 PM
KateG 16 Mar 04 - 03:02 PM
Raptor 16 Mar 04 - 09:39 AM
Amos 16 Mar 04 - 09:34 AM
GUEST,MMario 16 Mar 04 - 09:32 AM
Backstage Manager(inactive) 16 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM
Bat Goddess 16 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM
Backstage Manager(inactive) 16 Mar 04 - 09:27 AM
Bobert 16 Mar 04 - 09:18 AM

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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bobert
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 10:13 AM

Robin,

Bob showed me this post and I copied it. It makes a lot of sense and I'll try it this afternoon. (this is my very first post!) Before this bronchitis/strep throat hit three weeks ago, I was walking on the treadmill 3.5 mph 5 days/week and stretching exercises with a video tape inconjunction w/3-5-6 lb. free weights so my darned back shouldn't be so weak! I had laid around trying to get well and think those muscles weakened and yes, it came from taking a light box of firewood from Bob and turning back into the kitchen with it! As a rule, I'm slinging maddocks and shovels and hauling wheelbarrows up and down these hills. This is my first back spasm and it was certainly what it was cracked up to be!

Thank you for taking the time to help me--I promise to methodically do them in return!

Happy Spring1

P-Vine (Eve)


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Mar 04 - 12:13 AM

Either do abdominal exercises like a devote Musleum at prayer five times a day....

or....

Find a quack thorasic-surgeon who will remove the offending vertibrae and then spend your "remaining splendor days" in a motorized chair tied up to a colostomy-bag and a slightly-retarded full-time attendant (who works at minimal pay only for the chance to steal your pain-meds and hock them on the black-market to those most likely to RUSH.)

Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Art Thieme
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:32 PM

In other words:

HANG IN THERE !!!

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:02 AM


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: open mike
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 06:03 AM

there are devices which allow you to hang upside down--
a tilting frame that you attach your ankles to. This
can relieve your back by allowing the vertebrae to
sort of be in traction...and reverse the effects of
gravity putting pressure on spine, discs, etc. a./k.a.
inversion therapy...http://healing.about.com/cs/inversion/


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bobert
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 09:04 AM

Thanks Spaw and Art and Foolestroupe fir all yer advice... She is doing better this morning and we're hoping this is just a one time thing. I've had back pain meself over the years but it does seem to cycle its way back (no pun inteneded) to being fine... Hopefully, that will be the same for the P-Vine.....

I reckon she'll get a good test because she has decided to stop teaching music one day a week in exchange fir working as a salesperson at her favorite garden center and will be on her feet all day. Fortunately they don't neeed her to move any plants around...

So look like time will tell. But we're going to print this thread for future reference...

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Art Thieme
Date: 17 Mar 04 - 12:55 AM

Keep in mind the tale I've told in several other threads: I had 4 spinal surgeries with not much getting better; actually got worse. 3 discs were pulled and bone put in place of 'em in my neck. It took Mayo Clinic (last resort) to find I'd had MS all along. Possibly didn't need the surgeries.

Exhaust non-invasive stuff before you go to neurosugeons who see the symptoms with the tunnel vision of their specialty before they think of other possibilities.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: catspaw49
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:07 PM

You have some good advice here......primarily, go see a doc and preferably an orthopede. Find out what is really the problem. After that you can do the other stuff from herbal to chiro to exercise, etc. It is important to know.

I fought the problems for 20 years before having surgery at 40. Since then I have had no problem whatsoever. Surgery isn't a first option anymore to good orthopedic people, but at times it is the only option. A badly herniated disc will never heal itself or succumb to magic elixirs or wand waving. If surgery is indicated, there are some newer options that do not require hospitalization except as an outpatient.

This may be a one time thing or it may be the start of a long problem. Find out now what is happening and you'll both feel better. BTW, we have some other threads on this when Aine was having prob;ems that started the same way.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: freightdawg
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:23 PM

Believe me, Bobert,

I bring tears to A LOT OF PEOPLE'S eyes.

However, rarely in the good sense.

Thanks,

Freightdawg

(p.s. there are several simple, little stretching exercises that can be done to loosen and strengthen the back. Foolestroupe's was the first I'd heard of that one, but a visit to a physical therapist for a list and description of these exercises would be well worth it, both during your wife's mending and to keep it from happening again. My surgeon said that by age 40 we ALL have bulging discs to some extent, and as FS said above, the stronger you can make your back the better you will be. You are correct, surgery is the absolute last option, sometimes necessary, but NOBODY wants to have back surgery)


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:51 PM

Got L5-S1 damage 20+ years ago. This is a very common area to damage while bending over and lifting weight, especially if also turning - just like lifting a cat... :-)

Cold slows blood flow, warmth helps promote it to the muscles. Physios can also give you the little electric box with contact pads which sends a signal which tells the nerves to ignore the pain of a compressed nerve.

I found the following extremely helpful, and everyone who tried it also raved about it.

Lie on your back on the floor (not directly on a cold floor!), placing all of your back directly in contact with the firm surface - you will need to raise your knees to do this. Now the trick is to stretch the lower back. You achieve this by gradually, at first one at a time, bringing your knees down to the floor while keeping the whole of your back on the floor. It may take months of working at this, so if you don't get it first off, just take the knees down as far as you can while keeping the whole of the back flat on the floor. You may find you can only take one knee down at a time, so alternate them slowly. Over time you will find that you can get both knees down flat, and that the relief starts quicker, as you stretch the lower back.

The best exercises I did that strengthened the lower back and put 'tone' in the lower back muscles, was to lie on a bench with a weight in each hand (start vey light and work up over time). Start with the weights on your chest, then do what are called 'flys' - keeping the arms at right angles to your body - or since you are on your back - the arms vertical - open both arms all the way out and then back. When you have some muscular strength (in a couple of weeks), then only do it one arm at a time - these are called 'half-flys' - while keeping the other arm in various positions, - on the chest, straight up, or all the way out. You can also do them on your chest - you are then exercising a different set of arm/shoulder muscles.

What does this achieve? Well there are a set of muscles around the spine called 'rotators' - while waving your weighted arms around and lying on the bench, they are the set of muscles that stop you falling off the bench. When I strengthened mine, I had far less pain, as I now had more muscle tone around L5-S1. The doctors, the physios, and even the gym instructors were surprised.

Now you have my secret.

Please send all your life savings...

Robin


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:37 PM

Well, Amos and others. She is resting comfy in her recliner with her heat pad. (And she apprreciated the kiss, Amos)...

...but you don't have to worry none about surgery. That's fir like gun shot wounds. Jus about everything else can be corrected with diet, suppliments and drugs. No cuttin' in the family unless we've had 2nd, 3rd and 10th opinions.

I think she'll be fine. She jus' ain't got much patience with ailments. Heck, I got pain everyday but jus' don't give in to it but then I ain't the P-Vine. And glad I ain't. Hate to be married to myself... Sounds lonely.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Deckman
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 07:31 PM

Back injuries are usually VERY scary. Tell her to take it easy on herself! By that, I mean: She should give herself permission to hurt and take it easy. She should push all the hard physical work onto your shoulders until she's better.

Above all ... get to a Doctor. A GOOD Chiropractor can do wonders. Best wishes. Bob


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 06:21 PM

Be cautious about recommendations for surgery for something which can be handled by a much less invasive remedy such as chiro. And viceversa -- if it isn't resolving make sure you get the scans or xrays needed to really knwo the situation.

And give that P-vine a kiss on the cheek fer me too. I'd say hug, but with that back, well, best not!!


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:56 PM

See a doctor and get a CAT scan which will show up the soft tissue injuries if the discs are damaged.

Once you have that the chiropracter or physio can make a better assesment of the injury and treatment needed.


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:43 PM

Well gol danged, Freightdawg, when I read your post to the P-Vine here eyes welled up in tears and she said to tell you that your post was the "nicest and sweetest thing a stranger had ever told her"... Sniff... Now ya got me going...

Thanks.

Bobert


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: freightdawg
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 05:09 PM

If a disc has not been damaged, your wife is doing just about what she needs. Slow stretches, gentle walks, and the combination of ice and heat will slowly work the spasm out. While your wife continues to do chores, make sure she bends at the knees and lifts with her legs, do not bend at the waist. Also, there are those 8 hour heat strips you can get now just about anywhere. It provides for the muscles to have enough warmth to not spasm so much. If she can take ibuprofen or aspirin, that will help reduce the swelling.

If pain starts to radiate down her leg (usually feels like a hot fire poker right next to the leg bone) or if she starts to have numbness in any part of her leg, then get to a doctor immediately. That is an indication that a disc has bulged, or ruptured, and a competent doctor/surgeon should be consulted.

I've had both the ruptured disc and recurrent spasms. The spasms take about a full week for me to work out - that is to pretty much return completely to normal. I've had them so bad that the Mrs. had to tie my shoes. I sympathize with your wife! :-(

I'll carry my tail at half-staff until I hear she is better,

Freightdawg


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:34 PM

heat and gentle exercise, swimming is good, but only in heated pools.


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: KateG
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:02 PM

My Doc's advice follows Raptor's...only he lets me have Scotch in place of the rye!


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Raptor
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:39 AM

Once again I started a thread without reading

I just put my back out and was whineing on another thread

Raptor

Doctor said Ibuprofin, ice, Heat, rest, Massage thearapy, and Rye (oh the last one was me)


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:34 AM

Find a good chiropractor. Nine times out of ten he'll be able to bring rapid relief and over a series of visits complete recovery, assuming a disc hasn't been ruptured.

I have found gentle exercise such as long walks helps, also. But if it doesn't get better, get it Xrayed.


A


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:32 AM

my chiropracter recommended ice - but *for me* that increased the pain and spasming. After some (painful) experimentation we found that about 10 minutes of ice followed by 1/2 hour or more of gentle warmth (a heating pad in my case) satisfied HIM the most - *I* think it responded better to just warmth - but then again - I can't see the small of my back and don't know what he was looking for.


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM

or more than likely,

That phrase should have said: or more than likely *not*,


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:29 AM

Gentle stretching works for me. Muscle relaxants for the spasms (but haven't needed them since the original injury back in 1974 or so).

I find that if I keep the muscles on the sides of my back strengthened (I work out with free weights when I remember to -- usually not often enough) I don't have a problem -- unless, of course, I do something stupid like reaching to pick up a heavy recalcitrant cat from inside a "cat cave." Sigh.

Linn


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Subject: RE: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:27 AM

Other than this advice to see a good doctor, do not look to amateurs for advice on such matters. All they can offer is anecdotes based on their own problems and experiences which may, or more than likely, be relevant to your wife's situation. There can be any number of problems at the root of her pain and it takes proper evaluation to determine the correct treatment.

In my case, the problem was with a disc pressing on the nerve. My doctor sent me for physiotherapy which did wonders. It took five sessions over three weeks to do the trick. That's my anecdote. YMMV.


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Subject: BS: Advice for treating bad back.....
From: Bobert
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:18 AM

Well gol danged. My poor wife, the P-Vine, picked up a light box of firewood the wrong way and..........POP! Ouch! Yeah, she's been hurtin' in her lower back right in the middle and says it has been spasmin' on her... She's been to the massage lady once and felt a little bettter but then had to do some chores and it tightened up on her again.

She's used both ice and heat but ain't sure which one is the "in" treatment these days or if there's anything else that will help her.

BTW, she is generally in excellent health and when the back doesn't hurt, gardens and hauls stuff all day from spring to fall, does a half hour of exercises to the TV everyday and walks 3 miles on her treadmill.....

Any thoughts or advice on what do do to expedite the healing?

Bobert


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