Tech: Archiving Questions

Subject: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:49 PM

First, I'd like to keep this thread as uncluttered as possible-- remember, Mudcat is where the CRS contingent can often be found. So I would propose that we start with a question or two and get that area addressed thoroughly, THEN move on to another question.

"Huhhhh????" Hang on, you'll see what I mean.

1.

When you are archiving sound files to another medium, how often do you do this, and how long do you leave the archived material on your hard drive before deleting it? How many copies of the archived material do you make, and what offsite storage do you use? Do you print directories of the CD contents and keep those with the CDs?

Let's NOT discuss (YET) the finer points of the software you're using, the advantages of one medium over another for archive storage, and so forth. What I want to avoid is a thread where post Q is debating with post D, while post M is replying to post F, and that kinda messy thread. Let's DO just take turns addressing the boldface questions posed. When that round runs its course we can pose the next question, in boldface.

IMO it would be nice for this to be a Permathread, but I'm not interested in coordinating any more of those without my own Clone-edit button, so let's just see how this goes as proposed.

Thanks!

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:54 PM

I do it when space becomes a problem on HD, and I make at least two copies because I am using CDs, and worry about degradation. I *intend* to install a 2nd, slave HD with more capacity for more immediate access (for playing files easily) and extra redundancy.

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: wysiwyg
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 12:58 PM

Thanks, Bill.

To clarify-- I am PROPOSING (not dictating) a different way of using the resources the forum makes possible, out of a realization that probably 90% of us are dealing with archiving issues, with each one slowly re-inventing the wheel.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 01:49 PM

Your definition for "archiving" may be different from mine, but I would usually save each piece as a separate file for "archiving" purposes, and would "archive" them on data CDs.

Since you need to assemble the files you're going to burn to a CD - if that's to be your "permanent" medium - it's pretty easy to run a DOS "dir *.*/S > index.txt" of the folder you are ready to burn from, and I usually just put the index (after some editing from the DOS run) on the same disk where I put the music. (Rationale here is that if you can't read the disk it won't make much difference what's on it.) Additional information, such as source, "archive date," etc, can be added in the Index file.

For some things, I do keep a "composite" of the index files for a group of disks in one place on the machine, but none of my "archives" is extensive enough to push me to a real "master index." In a few cases where I know in advance that I'll have a series of a few disks, I may index all of the disks in that series, and put the entire "series index" on each of the disks. This is handy in that you can stick any disk from the series in the machine and find which disk has the item you really want, but has a tendency to fall apart if you come back later and add another disk or two.

If you're "archiving" a copy of a "released CD," you would probably want it as an audio CD, and you'd want to leave the track labels as on the original; but you would need some other place to keep any related info. I don't make many such "duplicates" that I consider as being for archive.

As to how long you leave the stuff on your hard drive, I can't see that this is an "archiving" matter. If you've made a suitable "archive" it shouldn't matter whether or not it's kept on your machine. Stuff on the hard drive should not be considered "archived," even though it is a relatively "safe" place to save something for reasonable periods. Whether you keep stuff there just depends on whether you might want to play with it later without going to the archive.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 08:39 PM

The only computer sound files I work with have their source in field recordings, both mine and others. Usually minidisc, sometimes analog tape.

1) If I am simply backing up a field recording, I use it to create a WAV file on the computer, which I then burn to two separate MUSIC CDs, which I store in two different locations. One backup CD has a paper label, the other does not. The CD label duplicates the information on the label of the original field recording. I then catalog the backups in an Access database.

2) If I wish to make a CD from the field recording, I use it to create a single WAV file on the computer. I create two CD backups of this single WAV file (see above). I Break the single WAV file into multiple smaller WAV files. I burn the separate WAV files as tracks onto two music CDs, both with paper labels with complete track lists as well as all information on the label of the original recording. I also burn the separate WAV files to two DATA CDs, neither with paper labels. I then catalog each track in another database.

3) If I am working on a project involving multiple field recordings, I back up each recording (#1), create separate tracks which I then back up (see #2), and leave these separate tracks on the computer for mixing and matching to create CDs until I have completed the project. Each CD I create by mixing and matching gets backed up (#2). Ditto for cataloging.

All backups are tested after creation to verify their usability.

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Mar 04 - 10:09 PM

Run programs only from one drive.

Save files only on a second drive.

Backup important files to two outside servers.

Sort first - then burn CD's and delete local HD files.

NEVER allow a HD to get over 50% full.

Catalog CD's in paper folders using an apothocary cabinet.

Most important file to save....the catalog of course.

So...WYGSIG???? What do YOU suggest?

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Mar 04 - 11:53 AM

Well, clearly, G, one should not do as I did and use the hard drive as the primary library, and wait to delete what has been archived to CD until one has about a floppy's worth of disk space left. :~) Ooops! Honestly, I had no idea how much space I had gobbled up in the last 3 months' mad grab as I ravaged new, exciting sources.

And I also had no idea what I wanted the end result to look like, or how I might use it. (If I had, this would not all have piled up.) Did I want CDs that could play in anything, or did I want MP3 CDs that would hold lots of stuff? Both, for songs I want our band to have a chance to hear and choose from for our own use. So I chose to save in formats that let us hear, primarily, the TUNES. I'm not bootlegging entertainment music-- I'm researching songs to propose to the band. Most of these are items I have lyrics for, or can find them, so it's the tune and the overall sound style we're after. That means that for us, sound quality itself is secondary, so I can go ahead and store things in lesser-quality formats and review them later and, if I want the band to have them, make them up as compilation CDAs at that time.

So here's my next question.

2.

What does your end result look like, how do you use it, and did you revise your procedures/software as you went, as you got a better idea of how you wanted to use the archives?

What I am doing is this. If it comes to me as a WAV and I think the band will like it, it (and anything that came in as an MP3) is now archived directly to CDA. Then I squish it down to lower-quality MP3s and toss batches of those onto CDs. Any MP3 material I might have saved before reviewing goes straight to MP3 storage for later review (during aquatic workout time).

I delete the folders as the CDs are made, and spend a couple of days doing that till I have a lot of chair time to check that all the CDs are OK and then to copy them. I use the running time to edit and standardize the playlist, and the playlists start from existing text files. I find it is faster to make just the one copy when I create the CD, and to do the making of the second copy for offsite storage, later, on a day I am doing only that. Once those are checked, batches of original folders are dumped from the Recycle Bin, by date of deletion.

The CDs are numbered with a filenaming convention that incorporates the approximate date I acquired the songs. No paper labels, just Sharpie marker numbers and brief description. I'm storing it all in binders, with the cloth-lined plastic pockets, and I got a good price on those from a local vendor. I'm using good quality D-ring binders. The playlists are given the same names, and are printed, stored in the front of the binder. When I get caught up and have a nice empty HD I will put the playlists on CDs too and store them.

The end result will be a library to play from for my own use at home and a second set offsite from which I can make lending copies for the band to borrow. Until I could see that the library should be housed at church, in some office space I will carve out, it was all pretty overwhelming.

Right now, to find a song to work up, I am using Windows search functions to tell me where I have a copy of the song's sound file, lyrics, chords, MIDI, etc. It's actually working very well for me to do that-- with the creative titling in gospel music, I use the same creative searching approach you would use for a Mudcat search and what I get is a screenful of results much like a search here among the threads.

In the past week I have archived about 15GB onto a LOT of blank CDs. (Some of the offsite copies are done already too.) I've learned some new software and some new tricks with software I had, and I can see a routine settling in as I continue exploring sources. For the balance of 2004 I will probably not change how I am doing any of this, or try to learn any new software... I need to get busy using what I have, not be sitting here learning how to store it differently. Next year tho I want to learn how to use the indexing/filenaming stuff some of you are using.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Tech: Archiving Questions
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 21 Mar 04 - 10:55 AM

WYSIWYG,

Sounds like you have the physical media under control.

My experience is that getting the physical media under control is less than half the job.

I have learned some lessons the hard way.

1. If you don't remember that you have something, that is functionally equivalent to not having it.
2. If you remember that you have something, but cannot find it, that is also functionally equivalent to not having it.
3. You never know what you will end up trying to find.
4. As your collection(s) reach certain critical masses, ways of storing and retrieving information about them that once worked quite well stop being time effective.

Thus, I now think that the most important items in my CD collections are not the CDs themselves but my databases. (This is, of course, an exaggeration, but not much of one).

For example, a collection that I am currently working on has 70+ CDs with well over 2500 tracks. Without the database I created specifically for that collection there would be no hope of dealing with it.

No matter how well organized the physical objects are, looking through 70+ pieces of paper (some with 50+ items), or searching the computer file equivalents of 70+ pieces of paper is simply not time effective. Thus the database.

Some years of experience allowed me to design it so I have maximum flexibility. I can query on artists, instruments, titles and variations, keys, recording dates, locations, etc., or any combination thereof.

It took a while to develop tne discipline required to keep the databases current, but it is well worth the effort.