A national anthem for England

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:13 AM

Wahey! 100, and I didn't know it!

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:37 AM

It was pertinent to the penultimate posting to mine by the Vulgar Boatman, which stated that we weren't cruel to dogs anymore.

Rotten sod.. I was going for my 4th '00' of the day!

LTS

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:45 AM

How about "Sorry seems to be the hardest word" :0)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 05:49 AM

Some people are just plain greedy when it comes to '00's! :-)

(Oops! another apology due. Sorry, I didn't connect your comment with the Alex Glasgow song)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Charmain
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:27 AM

Cheers Scrump!

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,heed
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 07:39 AM

Well, if you want jerusalem to be the English national anthem then you can vote for it here:

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Anthems/

And there is actually an organisation/ website campaigning for an english anthem. You can find it here:

http://anthem4england.co.uk/
http://anthem4england.co.uk/modules/wordpress/

And for debates about the english national anthem and englisness in general see here:

http://www.thecep.org.uk/news/

hope it helps....

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 22 Feb 07 - 10:30 AM

Forgive me if this has been mentioned before - but does anyone else remember Billy Connolly suggesting that we should adopt the theme from 'The Archers' as our National Anthem because it's more cheerful than the one we've got? I've always thought that was a good idea.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:02 AM

we should adopt the theme from 'The Archers' as our National Anthem

But it would need words writing for it - any takers?

Or should we all go:

Dum, de dum, de dum, de dum
Dum, de dum, de dum, click

(I believe that's the whole tune, isn't it?)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: guitar
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 07:22 AM

as a Scot I think it either be Jeruslem (blake) or one by the Spinners called 'here's to sweet lovely England, both great songs and both which I love.

Tom

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,English Jon
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 08:24 AM

How about the agincourt carol?

or given that the royals are all german, how about the slow movement from Haydn quartet op.75?

Cheers,
Jon

I recorded the famous bit out of Jupiter from holst's planet suite a while back - don't really hold with jingo-ism, but it's a great bit of English music.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Feb 07 - 12:47 PM

Ohhhhhhhh. I do like the idea of the Agincourt carol.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:14 AM

The theme from the Archers, eh? Hmm, let's see...

Village greens and corner shops,
that to me is England
fragrant fields with summer hops,
that is England too.
   Signs that say "tonight we fry",
   fish and chips for tea,
   bobbies that you ask for time,
   ice cream by the sea,
      "Kiss me quick" and candyfloss
      jellied eels and winkles,
      all of that and so much more
      England is to me.

Blowing chunks on Friday night,
that to me is England
schoolkids that can't read or rite,
that is England too.
   Pubs with giant TV screens,
   shops all boarded up,
   broken noses, broken dreams,
   "Watford for the Cup",
      Fun that's measured by the pint,
      politics with spin,
      nowhere better will you find -
      England, where 've you been?

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 04:17 AM

Steve Knightley, eat your heart out! :-)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 06:08 AM

Arthur Conan-Doyle - Song of the Bow

What of the bow?
The bow was made in England:
Of true wood, of yew-wood, The wood of English bows;
So men who are free Love the old yew-tree
And the land where the yew-tree grows.

What of the cord?
The cord was made in England:
A rough cord, a tough cord, A cord that bowmen love;
And so we will sing Of the hempen string
And the land where the cord was wove.

What of the shaft?
The shaft was cut in England:
A long shaft, a strong shaft, Barbed and trim and true;
So we'll drink all together To the grey goose-feather
And the land where the grey goose flew.

What of the mark?
Ah, seek it not in England,
A bold mark, our old mark Is waiting over-sea.
When the strings harp in chorus, And the lion flag is o'er us,
It is there that our mark will be.

What of the men?
The men were bred in England:
The bowmen--the yeomen, The lads of dale and fell.
Here's to you--and to you! To the hearts that are true
And the land where the true hearts dwell.

One of our club residents, Ged Todd, has set it to music and included a chorus -

The flax, the feather and the yew
Together in England grew
And with hearts so true
Brought glory to this land

Gets my vote :-)

Cheers

Dave

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Taffy
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 11:46 AM

And what of the song?
The song was made in Scotland!

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Terry McDonald
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 12:58 PM

But Conan Doyle spent most of his life in southern England, and is buried there. He couldn't choose where to be born, or to choose his (Irish) parents, but could choose where to live.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 24 Feb 07 - 05:33 PM

Whan the Scots or Irish start writing songs praising the English it must tell you something...

:D

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: autolycus
Date: 25 Feb 07 - 01:02 PM

How about a world anthem?






       Ivor

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 26 Feb 07 - 10:34 AM

World anthem? How about We Are The World?

Maybe we need an anthem for our Solar System. Rise Up Like The Sun? The Sun Has Got His Hat On, Hip Hip Hip Hooray!

:)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:05 AM

How about Kate Bush's "Lionheart" ?

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:23 AM

Has no-one suggested He Is An Englishman from HMS PInafore by G+S?

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 10:46 AM

I still vote for the modified version of "There'll Always Be An England" above. It's got what an anthem should have - a stirring tune and uplifting words.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Stu
Date: 01 Mar 07 - 12:27 PM

"but about subservience to an individual and her dysfunctional family"

Not all of us - don't believe everyone in England subscribes to the dubious values of the Royal Family.

I find it interesting how little the English identify with their Celtic heritage. Although many of the main artefacts (both physcical and cultural) are relatively well known, they are never identified as being Celtic. Indeed, the English are far more aware of their pre-Celtic heritage which is obviously so visible in many areas.

Shame, really.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Scrump
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 05:51 AM

"but about subservience to an individual and her dysfunctional family"

Not all of us - don't believe everyone in England subscribes to the dubious values of the Royal Family.

True. You can be proud of your country and be a republican. That's why I favour an anthem that doesn't mention the royal family or other dubious aspects such as the building of empires at the expense of other countries, or celebrating victories over other countries in war. The most important aspect to me, that I would like to see in an anthem, is the freedom we enjoy, fought for and won by our forefathers, and which I regret is continually being eroded by the present government.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Gavin Atkin
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 07:27 AM

What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard?

Apart from the Cornish, I didn't think we had one, so I tried Google, and the first page didn't turn up much evidence.

Gav

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,ib48
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 10:07 AM

nelly the elephant or lip up fatty

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Stu
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 11:03 AM

"What Celtic heritage are you thinking of Stigweard?"

Good question. Try these for starters:

Well, Wikipedia has an several interesting articles on this subject here, or here to get up and running.

Extant Celtic traditions in England (as well as Scotland) are discussed in the excellent book Twilight of the Celtic Gods, which will can get for considerably less on ebay or by borrowing at your local library.

And that's before I mention King Arthur (a tradition still shared with our Celtic neighbours), The Battersea Shield, Lindow Man, Boudicaa etc etc etc.

My opinion is most of the indiginous population of our Islands are probably decended from the people who arrived after the last ice age. The following periods (Beaker people, Celts, Romans, Saxons, Normans etc) have seen successive cultural shifts rather than actual mass movement of populations we know many British (Celts or whatever) adapted readily to the Roman lifestyle for instance.

This is borne out by DNA studies on very ancient Britons, such as Cheddar Man. His decendant opened the local exhibition about the subject.

I think I prefer the idea of our Islands without borders which is the land our Celtic ancestors would have known before the Roman invasion.

A national anthem for England? I like Spancil Hill.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: guitar
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:20 PM

as a scot I tihnk that England Anthem should be Blake's Jersluem (pardon the spelling)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: guitar
Date: 02 Mar 07 - 12:22 PM

C Doyale was born in Scotland, but hey he did live in England

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Scott The Gent
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 02:06 PM

Does anyone know if I can find the Arthur Conan-Doyle - Song of the Bow music anywhere or do people just have the lyrics?

[e-mail]

Thanks!

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:15 PM

Here you are, Scott (I just typed Song of the Bow into Google, and it came up in the first entry) :

What of the bow?
The bow was made in England:
Of true wood, of yew wood,
The wood of English bows;
So men who are free
Love the old yew tree
And the land where the yew tree grows.

What of the cord?
The cord was made in England:
A rough cord, a tough cord,
A cord that bowmen love;
So we'll drain our jacks
To the English flax
And the land where the hemp was wove.

What of the shaft?
The shaft was cut in England:
A long shaft, a strong shaft,
Barbed and trim and true;
So we'll drink all together
To the gray goose feather
And the land where the gray goose flew.

What of the men?
The men were bred in England:
The bowman--the yeoman--
The lads of dale and fell
Here's to you--and to you;
To the hearts that are true
And the land where the true hearts dwell.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:32 PM

fings aint wot they used to be,might be apt.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 05:52 PM

Couldn't thing the tune for Song of the Bow online - but here's a CD which contains the tune Florence Aylward put to it.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:03 PM

My choice would have to be Jerusalem -- which started thisthread. Thisyear at the Getaway we did a mummers play and ended up singing a rousing version of Jerusalem...such fun!

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 10:46 PM

Just a thought-
Do the English really want to use an anthem that's under copyright? T'would make a pretty penny for the composer/author.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Lindsay In Wales
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 05:47 AM

I would vote for "The Yeomen Of England" from the operetta "Merrie England" by Edward German and Basil Hood. First performed in the Savoy Theatre in 1904.

Where are the yeomen, the yeomen of England?
In homestead and in cottage
They still dwell in England
Stained with the ruddy tan
God's air doth give a man
Free as the winds that fan
The broad breast of England

And nations to eastward
And nations to westward
As foemen may curse them
The Yeomen Of England
No other land could nurse them
But their mother-land Old England
And on her broad bosom shall they ever thrive

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Rog Peek
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:36 AM

Ralph McTell's 'England' would get my vote.

Certainly couldn't sing 'God Save The Queen', I'd choke on it!

Rog

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 08:38 AM

My vote would be for:

Coronach
(Words and music by David Palmer - with a little help from Shakespeare)

Grey the mist, cold the dawn;
Cruel the sea and stern the shore.
Brave the man who sets his course
For Albion.

Sweet the rose, sharp the thorn;
Meek the soil, proud the corn.
Blessed the lamb that would be born
Within this green and pleasant land.

Brown furrows shine beneath the rain-washed blue.
Bright crystal streams from eagle mountains pour.
Fortune has smiled on those who wake anew,
Within this fortress nature built to stay the hand of war.

With the wind from the east
Came the first of those to tread
Upon this stone, this throne of kings;
This realm, this new Jerusalem.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: theleveller
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:28 AM

Why on earth do we need a national anthem? They're mostly just jingoistic crap. Patriotism doesn't need the type of manufactured emotional outpouring we see Americans indulge in (land of the free, my arse). What could be more dignified when (if) we ever win anything ever again, than just standing in silence for a minute or so and contemplating the moment?

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 11:58 AM

I still think Yellow Submarine would be a great choice - especially with its lines

"Our friends are all aboard,
Many more of them live next door"

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: The Sandman
Date: 12 Dec 07 - 12:45 PM

leveller, good point ,I did suggest earlier, John Cages4 minutes whatever

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: theleveller
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 03:16 AM

Apologies for missing that, cap'n. Silence is even more effective when it has a title.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Dec 07 - 01:57 PM

I enjoy many national anthems. Often they can be the most entertaining parts of international sporting occasions.Here is a website with words and tunes, including the details for the ones that have been scrapped and replaced over the years. (One of my favourites is the Romanian one - written 1848, but only adopted as the national anthem in 1990.)

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 07:32 AM

Hooray! Hooray!
I'm glad to be Brit
I went abroad on holiday
And found that it was shit

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Dec 07 - 08:01 PM

That wouldn't count as an English national anthem.

Though I suppose the only people who might ever call themselves "Brits" would in practice be English. And not too many of them.

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: Rog Peek
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 06:14 AM

Yes McGrath, and most of them would probably be living abroad.

Rog

Subject: Lyr Add: SAINT GEORGE (John Kirkpatrick)
From: Mikefule
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 09:11 AM

A difficult one. I am generally against "nationalism" because it strays so easily into jingoism, but I think England is a great place to live and we have a lot to be proud of. I don't like "God Save the Queen" because the main thrust of it's argument relies on a request to a God I do not believe in supporting an institution I do not believe in.

Below are the lyrics to a John Kirkpatrick song, which has a chorus that is easy to sing. Being an atheist, I'm not entirely in favour of saints, but I can grit my teeth and regard St. George as a metaphor. Certainly the English dragon-killing chivalrous knight never existed, so we can make of him whatever we wish. The "real" St. George was born in Israel, a soldier in the Italian army, and is patron saint of Portugal, Canada and Macedonia, if I remember correctly. How melting pot is that?

Saint George
From John Kirkpatrick

I am St. George. I'm a champion bold,
And over old England my flag I'll unfold.
My sword fights for justice, with truth for my shield,
And when I come riding I never shall yield.

CHORUS: And on my breast, a red red rose,
The flower of old England wherever she grows.

I fought with a dragon and brought it to shame.
I was killed seven times but I still fought again.
I was killed seven times but it did me no ill.
If the battle be true, then I'll fight again still.

In the cause of all freedom, my banner shall wave.
The oppressed and down trodden my sword it shall save.
In the righting of wrongs, I never shall tire.
That the weak become strong is all my desire.

I'll watch o'er your horses, your house and your land,
And if you have none, still your friend I will stand.
I'll strengthen your courage for all you hold dear,
To vanquish all doubt, and banish all fear.

Now be sure in your heart if you call on my name,
For I fight with a fury of fire and flame.
Any lies or deceit, to a cinder I'll burn,
And once you invoke me, I never shall turn.

For I have the power to pierce to the heart.
I strike like the lightning. I can tear you apart.
On hoof-beats of thunder, o'er England I'll ride.
What foe can defy you with me by your side?

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,The Mole Catcher's Apprentice
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 12:47 PM

Anything written by Ray Davies *LOL*

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: GUEST,Jock
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 06:14 PM

'Land of dope and tory,
Smotherer of the free ...'

Subject: RE: A national anthem for England
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Dec 07 - 07:37 PM

Then of course there is always Mad Dogs and Englishmen...