DDay for smoking ban in Ireland

Subject: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Fergie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:50 AM

Today is the first day of the smoking ban in pubs in Ireland, I'm looking forward to going for a few pints of stout in a clean atmosphere tonight, I quit smoking 13 years ago. Any suggestions for a topical song that might go down well at the first smoke free session of the Góilín singers circle next Friday?
Fergus

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Sttaw Legend
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:54 AM

"Ciggy song" by harri watts band

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:13 PM

The right tune would maybe be "A Pinch of Snuff".

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:16 PM

Dear Tobacco(tune recorded by the Boat Band, no strangers to Goleen).
Mollie Wimbley(she smokes like a chimbley) by the Singing Postman
Tobacco is an Indian Weed

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:37 PM

Oh, it's going to be so great! No more coming home with hair and clothes stiff with reeking tobacco smoke, no wheezing as you savour your pint - and best of all, no humiliating attempts to scrounge a fag when the taste of a few pints has lowered your moral tone!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 01:39 PM

Way to go Ireland!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM

"Cigarettes and Whiskey and Wild, Wild Women"?

Of course the ban is not just in pubs but in all work places, restaurants, etc.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 02:51 AM

I'll sing you a song, a smoke-free song,
With breathing, choke-free chorus,
For to smoke a blazing fag is wrong,
Tis smoke-free heavens o'er us,
Impatient for the coming fight,
We demand clean air as our birthright,
Here in a fog free Irish night,
We will chant a choke-free song!

If only I could think of a tune...

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 05:38 AM

You may celbrate now, non-smokers. But it's alcohol next. The health nazis will not be satisfied with one small sacrifice.
"Once you have paid them the Danegeld
You never get rid of the Dane"

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:20 AM

You don't get secondary drinking any more than secondary snuff-taking. Smoking is a peculiar type of a habit that imposes itself on other people, and that's why there's a case for treating it differently.

Mind, the other thing like that, which does impose itself on people in the same room is singing and music. But I think that should be reasonably safe in Ireland anyway. (Maybe one can envisage some test case involving bodhrans.)

I'm pretty sure that native ingenuity will find ways to ensure that this change has interesting unforeseen outcomes. I gather that there's a big vogue for outdoor patio heaters and gazebos in Irish pub car parks now. All the ciggy smokers and th dope smokers huddled uo together roun the little pot stove...

Snuff taking, and nicotine inhalers with Celtic Crosses engraved on them - that'll be all the rage soon enough.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: greg stephens
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:27 AM

I regard getting run over or beaten up by drunks as secondary drinking, McGrath. I hope you are right that Irish ingenuity will enable a good time to be had by all in Ireland in the future, and not just by the virtuous.
   I write as a non-smoker.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:11 AM

But those kinds of "secondary drinking" are already illegal, greg.

There used to be signs in buses and pubs saying "no spitting". Perhaps that was the thin end of the wedge. But generally most people seem to understand that the undoubted human right to spit is one that is not best exercised in such places. Though I've sometimes thought that combined "No smoking, no spitting" signs might be quite a good idea.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:23 AM

I regard getting run over or beaten up by drunks as secondary drinking

Remind me never to go in the pubs that you frequent, Greg;-)

I live almost in inner city Salford and while some of my watering holes may be considered safer than others I have never been beaten up or run over by drunks, thankfully, in my 35 years of propping up bars!

Secondary effects of folk music? Now that IS a different kettle of bold fishermen...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:26 AM

I remember the signs saying "No spitting" or "Ná caitear sealach" (sp. ?)on the buses of my youth. The point, of course, was that it was at the height of TB prevalence in Ireland.

Regards

p.s. Arrived back from Edinburgh late last night - so haven't had a chance to see how its working out. Have to go out for a pint tonight - purely for research purposes, of course.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: el ted
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:31 AM

I smoke.No point going to Ireland for a holiday now then!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: ard mhacha
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM

RTE interviewed a couple sitting smoking outsde a Pub, they were not pleased, in fact they said they were heading overthe Border to Derry, to smoke in the comfort of a warm Pub, they were both from England.
It is one of the best things the Dail has ever done, come on Tony hit them UK smokers with you Hand-bag.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,earthling
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:49 AM

The publican from Gogarty's was on the news, saying he thinks their takings will drop by 25/30%. Forecast unemployment etc.

I am betwixt and between on this one.....I do know my way around a Marlboro Light but also have no objections to the ban. I accept peoples objections to smoking more than I accept my occasional need to indulge.

Is the ban just in the South?

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:54 AM

I can understand a ban on smoking in the general workplace but a pub?!!! Come on people...it's one of the last refuges. If you don't want secondary smoke..find a pub with a non-smokers lounge. If you don't want to work where there is secondary smoke...get a job at a hospital.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:57 AM

No ban in Northern Ireland - maybe there might be some pubs up there where they'll ban smoking as a practical act of Irish re-unification? And chain-smoking Orange marches, as a gesture of No Surrender...

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:45 AM

Johnny Fox's has a bus outside that employees are not allowed into. Customers are under the obligation to keep the place themselves.

Where there's a will.....

Jim.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM

keep the place tidy, themselves, I mean...

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Lil Dog Turpy
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 08:46 AM

In Vancouver, when smoking inside restaurants and bars was made illegal it was pointed out that drinking in public was already illegal so in all likelihood there would be a lot of people standing in the doorways of the pubs :-)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:49 AM

Will this be enforced in the Irish theme pubs all over the world? If not will they have to stop pretending to be "authentic"?

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:02 PM

Johnny Foxe's owner was on the telly last night maintaining that he would be ..er..maintaining the cleanliness of aforementioned bus...much to the enjoyment of his staff.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:14 PM

Smokers of the world - IGNITE

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:54 PM

"Why don't you smoke off..."

I imagine there are going to be various social innovations such as Smokeasies and Smoking Shebeens. The old private party in the back room that is party of the landlord's house will coem back into vogue...

One interesting point which doesn't appear to have had much attention is that apparently the legislation only covers tobacco. According to this site the Cigarette Machine Operators Association has imported one million aromatic cigarettes ahead of the ban.

That could be interesting. "No, no, this isn't tobacco, it's an alternative smoking mixture!" "Well, that's all right than - you had me worried for a moment."   I wonder how aromatic those ciggies are going to get...

"Publicans themselves will have to be sure the cigarettes do not contain a tobacco product and then it's up to them whether they wish to actually allow the smoking of them or not," said Valerie Robinson of the Office of Tobacco Control.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: iancarterb
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 11:40 PM

The thing the smokers have trouble getting: there have never been two people in a room and only one of them smoking. Smoking and singing don't mix. Smoking and breathing don't mix. Many people will start going out to jams again if they don't have to smoke as part of the price. It's happened in every city that has banned smoking in bars and restaurants.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 04:50 AM

I played my first gig last night, since the smoking ban was implemented. There were fewer people there and there were congregations of smokers standing just outside the door of the pub. In looking up and down the street I saw duplicates of this "congregation" in front of all the pubs. What that boils down to in my mind is taking a bunch of drunks and putting them outside every 15 minutes or so...people who would normally never speak to one another..people who have aggressive tendencies due to the amount of alcohol they have consumed. Another concern is unescorted females being forced to join this lot.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:46 AM

...unescorted females FORCED to join this lot? by whom?

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,eileen
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 04:17 AM

Forced by their unfortunate need or desire to have a cigarette.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:36 AM

Solution!
Make cigarettes taste so foul that no-one will want to ever smoke again!

Nicotine addiction is a nasty thing.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM

"Make cigarettes taste so foul that no-one will want to ever smoke again!"

Surely they couldn't taste worse than many do already.

And nicotine addiction is a side issue - if that was the only habit involved, there are plenty of other ways of taking nicotine which don't involve issues such as secondary smoking. And there is also a matter of territoriality. Lighting up and blowing out the smoke can be a way of dominating a room.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:51 AM

True.
Maybe the idea of grusome pictures on fag packets might be good. I've seen some horrible pictures on my course, it's enought to put you off breathing, let alonde smoking.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: harvey andrews
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:24 AM

Great story of an irish politician smoking in the bar in protest and being immediately sacked from his party's front bench. That's the way to treat the anti-social buggers!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Why
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:55 AM

Why in Gods name do some smokers think they are so high and mighty. I've had one friend and one relative die from cancer both at relatively early ages, 39 and 48, both leaving wives and children. They both had cancer caused from smoking, secondary smoking in one case. When people say "they don't have to go in pubs" it makes my blood boil, they wanted to go in pubs and other places that allow smoking and have paid the ultimate penalty - DEATH. If someone invented smoking today would it be allowed to happen, I don't think so.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: DG&D Dave
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:43 AM

The Motor Car has killed more people than smoking ever will.
I just wish the politicians would take the bull by the horns and tackle the big problems before the little ones!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: mooman
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:41 AM

Well done Ireland! I look forward to joining in sessions there again.

Let's hope some other European countries have the sense to do this.

And for some smokers (quite a number are sympathetic to non-smokers)...if I enjoy a pint and a chat and maybe a session why do I have to inhale the waste products of what you choose to do?

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: RichM
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:42 AM

When a citywide smoking ban (applying to public places, including restaurants and bars) became law here (Ottawa, Canada) the very same grumbling about infringement of rights started up. That was a couple of years ago.

I am a non-smoker who had given up playing gigs in bars because of the smoke.
Now, smokers smoke outside, and air is fresher inside. I once again can enjoy doing gigs in bars.

I don't have to breathe stale smoke (and singers breath a lot of it in bars), or wash my clothes immediately when i go home.Not to mention the benefit for my lungs. No more yellow phlegm in the morning from second hand smoke.


My advice is relax, Ireland. It'll settle down within a few weeks.

Rich McCarthy

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:56 AM

Norway soon to follow suit, 1st June, I think.

Previously they had tried having smoking and non-smoking areas in the pubs. That was about as successfull as having a non-peeing end in a swimming pool, so they opted for the total ban.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:14 AM

The Motor Car has killed more people than smoking ever will.

That isn't om fact true by a long way. The estimated number of people dying every year from smoking related diseases is far far higher than the number killed on the roads. Which doesn't mean that killings on the roads should be seen as inevitable and acceptable. (Even aside from the fact that motor cars pollute the place as well.)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:25 AM

I agree with you DG&D Dave, let's ban cars. Then people won't be able to get to work so they won't earn any money, therefore they won't be able to afford their fags. Problem solved - the end justifies the means!

Dave old lad, despite the down-side of cars (and I know all about it so don't bother regaling me), they do have a certain social and economic benefit for their users. What social and economic benefits do cigarettes bring to those who poison themselves and others with their smoke? Just wondering....

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:55 AM

SJ "What social and economic benefits do cigarettes bring to those who poison themselves and others with their smoke?" simple answer NONE, but it leads too DEATH in some cases

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:05 PM

GUEST (Anon) - I fear you misunderstand. My comment was a response to another posting which stated that cars should be banned rather than cigarettes because they cause far more deaths than cigarettes. My point is that, whilst SOME good comes from the use of a car, NONE WHATSOEVER comes from smoking. So we agree. Agreed?

Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Emma B
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:16 PM

OK - I am a smoker but I hope a considerate one. May I please make a plea as an (allergic) asthmatic for people to desist wearing quanties of foul smelling perfumes and deoderants in public places making them not only very unpleasant but "out - of - bounds" as far I'm concerned and, incidently, far more immediately dangerous than the secondary effects of smoking!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:38 PM

Emma, surely it's highly irresponsible for a person with a serious respiratory problem to fill their lungs with a poisonous and carcinogenic substance? Far more irresponsible than it is for me to use after-shave?

I'm very sympathetic to your problems but it's a red herring to introduce the perfume argument when you're determined to kill yourself by smoking anyway.

A saddened Johnny :0(

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Joybell
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

I've never chosen to actively smoke. In 1962 I began my work in a hospital. Everyone smoked in there - staff and patients alike. "You can't ban smoking" they said, "It makes the misery a little easier to take". Smoking wasn't banned in hospitals in Australia until the late 1980s. From 1970 I also worked in an office and in restuarants as a singer. By the time I was 30 I was beginning to get attacks of asthma. "Find another job", they said, "If you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen". Until the 1980s when things - very slowly! began to change there were no smoke free work places, no smoke free public places to meet friends. Only theatres were smoke free. Not before time that the change has come, I say. Joy

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: harvey andrews
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:55 PM

Apparantly business in new York bars and restaurants is about 10% since the ban as shown by the amount of a tax similar to VAT that has been paid recently by these businesses.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:56 PM

Let's hear it for all men who unselfishly put up with all the inconvenience and accompanying stigmatisation, for doing their bit for the environment by dispensing with perfumes and deoderants, so as to avoid polluting the place. And especially those of us who grow beards, thus avoiding the use of aftershave.

It seems to me that male folk musicans are making a significant contribution in this way.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:00 AM

Hey there Mac, I've got a beard but I still use A/Shave on the bits I still shave - my neck and cheeks (no you daft sod, the ones on my face!). I'd rather smell like a whore's handbag than a two-day-old cheeseburger. :0)
Cheers M'Dears,
Johnny

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:13 AM

I'll be interested to hear how it works, especially in country areas where I understand the licencing regulations are already, shall we say, elastic... with the local gardai turning a blind eye.
How has it worked in US cities? Do the police resent having to enforce it? Or do civilian inspectors have responsibility? US fiction always implies fire and health inspectors are routinely bought off by businesses...?

RtS
(perhaps I read the wrong books...)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:16 AM

I've never had trouble with smokers anywhere...






as long as they don't exhale..xx..e

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:06 AM

The drift to scent and other smelly stuff reminded me of a old song challenge thread arising from an attempt by the Nova Scotia authorities to clamp down on that kind of thing. I wonder how it worked out? Here is the thread - O Canada - a Song Challenge

It threw up a few new songs and some old. Here is the chorus of one I came up with, which is relevant to Emma B's plea:

Oh the smell of Mother Nature
it is better left alone,
don't you spoil it with your perfume,
we'll have no Eau de Cologne.
We don't mind if you're fragrant,
but that scent you wear is flagrant,
and we'll count you as a vagrant,
yes, we'll lock you in the jail.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:41 AM

I wish they'd ban it in Tunisia where I was recently. ALL the men there smoke, seems to be a macho thing. Our guide in Tunis asked me for a light and couldn't believe it when I told him I didn't use "cancer sticks". Our hotel lounge (filled mostly with locals)was just one big cloud of smoke, which we had to pass through going to and from the restaurant. We'd have liked to have taken in some of the evening entertainments but couldn't because of the poisonous cloud.

The tobacco companies seem to targetting these sort of "emerging nations" (Marlboro was the hip smoke), who are building up a huge health problem for future generations to deal with. As they will run out of water in 20 years time, the money would be much better spent on desalination plants.

For a brilliantly funny description of a smoker's hotel room, see Joseph O'Connor's book "Sweet Liberty". (Yes Sinead's brother, currently with a big hit on his hands, "Star of the Sea").

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Hrothgar
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 05:44 AM

Johnny, are you sure that you wouldn't be more attractive smelling like a two-day-old cheeseburger?

Perhaps the compromise is smelling like a whore's cheeseburger? Or a two-day-old handbag?

:-)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:08 AM

Hrothgar - only more attractive to other unpleasant-smelling people! :0) Mrs. Johnny has given me her firm assurance that, should I decide to go down the gorilla's armpit/inside of a greek wrestler's jockstrap road, a costly divorce will quickly follow.

And McGrath - just because someone wrote a song in praise of B.O. doesn't make it socially acceptable!! :0) :0)

Anyway - back to the real thread, lets work on getting smoking banned in the UK....................

Cheers guys,
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 06:53 AM

I've just finished an exam where I wrote THREE pages on why smoking is bad for you!
That has got to be as good a reason as any.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Alice
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 09:00 AM

In our state, Montana, some cities have tried the smoking ban at different times with stiff resistance from the smokers who manage to get it repealed. BUT the evidence that smoking bans do improve health came from our state capital, Helena, when they were able to ban smoking in public places for less than a year. There was a decrease in heart attacks by 60%!
Read on New Scientist. Public smoking ban slashes heart attacks. We recently moved our session to a smoke free place. None of the session members smokes, but we were being run out by the toxic fumes of the location where the session had been held. New place, smoke free, much better, more people came back to the session.

alice

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 09:32 AM

To qoute the late, lamented, Sydney Carter:

"I'll give up the habit,I will even yet.
When I've had just one more cigarette"

Nigel

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: JWB
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 01:10 PM

Here in Massachusetts smoking is banned in bars, restaurants, etc., and it's wonderful. There's nothing worse than settling into a good meal only to have smoke drift over from the smokers' section one booth away (which happens in those yet unenglightened states that still allow food and tobacco to mix). Business here doesn't seem to have suffered -- the bars are still selling drinks.

Here's a poem I learned years ago from a smoking friend:

Tobacco is a dirty weed; I like it.
It satisfies no normal need; I like it.
It makes you thin, it makes you lean,
It takes the hair right off your bean.
It's the worst darn stuff I've ever seen.
I like it.

Poor bastard...

Jerry

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Bill Kennedy
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 01:25 PM

I posted this on another thread, but they are not linked so here:\

Don't know if any of you have, or remember, Fintan Vallely's 'Timber,
Concert Flute Tutor' from 1986, but he makes some statements about smoke and drink that are quite effective in thier non-judgemental, understated way. As to smoking, (under a great photo of a nun in habit with a fag hanging off her lip like an auto mechanic working on an engine, and all of us who smoke or have smoked can feel the smoke against our cheek and curling into our left eye. Some jobs almost required the cig for proper completion) he says:

SMOKING AND FLUTE PLAYING

"If you play music and smoke, then you might well be in a worse state than those who simply smoke, for you're going to find yourself in smoky atmosphere more often. If you play the flute it's worse again. There are of course no statistics available since flute players are a voiceless minority.
    Cigarettes seem to be handy for those boring interludes between tunes when you either don't know the other players, or have nothing to say to them. They also help cloud the atmosphere to enhance the onset of developing divil-me-caredness. But it must be presumed that smoking is particularly dangerous to flute players: We (in Ireland) seem to be condemned to do most of our playing in sealed beauty-board boxes filled with smoke. We (flute players) are the only people in the session environment taxing our lungs to the same extent as long-distance runners.
But while runners do their thing in the fresh air, we are filling every available scrap of our distended lung-tissues with smoke deposits. Meanwhile, the non-flute playing classes are happily shallow-breathing in as little as perhaps a third of it what we do. Presumably without ever lighting a cigarette we could already be shortening our lives dramatically?"

so life expectancy of Irish flute players just increased for all you actuaries out there!

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:16 PM

My ex wife suffered from chemical sensitivity to the point that we couldn't use the toilet in the motor home because it required a strong chemical. Getting behind a diesel powered truck or bus was hell for her, and being in a tight place with some woman who feels she has to smewll like a French whore to be acceptable really limited our social life.
She had to breathe, you don't have to fill the air with toxic fumes.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:22 PM

Something that really bugs me is seeing those ads on TV that try to tell women that they need this "feminine hygene spray". I've been close to well ove 40 women and I have never seen a healthy one who needed this stuff. Or, perfume for that matter. YOU DON'T NEED IT! you have been sold a bill of goods by those stinkum companies that try to tell you that you smell! A daily shower with plain soap is far more sexy to me than that over priced glamorized Raid.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:24 PM

Well said Guest. For the benefit of the Brits, Raid is an insect killer.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 02:34 PM

Less than two weeks ago, Mudcat said farewell to one of its most beloved members; someone who died decades too young from cancer after years of smoking and playing in smoky bars. After seeing such effects of smoking and second-hand smoke on such a valued member of this community, it is mindboggling that anyone would do anything but celebrate any smoking ban.

BTW, referring to someone who wants clean air as a "health nazi" is incredibly offensive and incredibly stupid. A "nazi" believes in genocide and extreme oppression. That is hardly the mark of someone who thinks they shouldn't be assaulted by poisonous carcinogens in their air.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 03:14 PM

It's human nature to want to put the onus one others. When I was a smoker I was that way, I used to say "I feel sorry for you health nuts, and I see you 40 years from now lying in a hospital bed dying of nothing."
Addiction is a terrible thing for one to suffer, but it is self inflicted, so, kick it, grow up and join the human race. I have never heard anyone say, "I wish I hadn't quit smoking."

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Apr 04 - 04:11 PM

I was having lunch in the retaurant end of a pub the other day, with a smoking side and a non-smoking side. The smoking side had 25 people in it, I counted them. Including two babies. Only one person was smoking, and that was the mother of one of the babies.

You still got the whiff of the smoke through the whole place when you walked in.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Fergie
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 07:24 AM

Was in the Góilín Club in Dublin last night, the air was clean and everybody was saying that it was wonderful not to have to breath 2nd hand smoke. Even smokers were happier, the totally addicted went out onto the footpath and when they returned you could smell the smoke from their breath and clothes it was very noticable.
In every bar that I have been in the ban is abserved and the air is clear and so sweet. The publicans fears were groundless. Its the best thing that has happened in years
Fertgus

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: kendall
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 07:29 AM

25% of Americans smoke. 75 % don't smoke. thios aint rocket science folks.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 07:58 AM

Back in Victorian times they appear to have had a lot more sensitivity about this in some ways, in England ayway - smoking caps and smoking jackets, and places where you would go to smoke and that, and asking permission to smoke.

The assumption that there is a basic right to smoke where you like and at any time, regardless of what anyone else might think, and that having clothes smelling of tobacco smoke was perfectly fine - that seems to have come in quite a bit later.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: freda underhill
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 09:12 AM

re chemicals & perfumes, i dont use perfumes that are full of chemicals. people get addicted to the chemicals, and regard their own bodies as things to be annihilated with sprays.

i wonder about the long term nerve damage that some perfumes will cause!

i go to a herbal & homeopathic pharmacy (Newtons) in sydney, to get perfumes that are basically natural essences (sandalwood, ylang ylang). it feels good to use something like that.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Toenails John
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 10:07 AM

Just to voice an opinion here.
I am not a smoker, although i used to be & turned my back on the habbit never to go back. However, although I can see the advantages of banning smoking, There is, as with every argument, 2 sides.

Non smokers have the right to enjoy a drink, without enduring smoke around them, BUT Surely the smokers have the right to enjoy their evening as well. What Fianna Fail (Party in Gov for anyone that dont know)have done is taken all rights away from smokers, and placed them in the hands of non smokers. I think it's a disgrace that the government steamrolled this in, when in a democracy, something like this should have been put to a vote, or at least Non smoking & Smoking areas in pubs so both sides could be happy. In my opinion the gov are telling people exactly what they can and cant do, surely this is veering towards a dictatorship, more so than democracy.
Either way it doesn't affect me as a non smoker, but my heart goes out to those who do, and have now to put up with being punished while trying to enjoy a night out.

If all else fails, light up, get arrested and get put in the big house. You can smoke in Garda Barraks, and prisons!! (lateral thinking!!)

I bid you all adieu

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 01:38 PM

"Non smoking & Smoking areas in pubs " Smoke travels. That is what makes it different from any other method of taking in nocotine - snuff, patches, capsules, even chewing tobacco with a spittoon, though I rather hope that doesn't make a come back.

And the basis from the ban is that a smokers area in the pub will mean the bar staff having to put up with it whether they want or not.

I have no doubt that a whole culture of smokers shanties adjacent to the pub, with no pub workers allowed in, will develop. God knows what they'll get up to in there...

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Big Tim
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 01:49 PM

It's early days in Ireland but NYC introduced a similar ban a good while back. What's the position there now?

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Joybell
Date: 03 Apr 04 - 06:18 PM

McGrath is quite right, the idea of smoking being a "right" is a 20th century idea. Here in Australia it was the great George Coppin (himself a smoker) who made his theatres non smoking. He made the point that it was because of the discomfort caused to non-smokers and not because of the fire danger, although some theatre owners used the threat of fire to enforce bans on smoking. A few people grumbled but the idea caught on and Australian theatres have always been smoke free.
Actually smoking has never been "a right". Breathing is a "right". Joy

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Wildcat
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 01:39 PM

1998 there was also a heart attack drop in Helena and smoking was not banned, how do they explain that? They do not even mention it. Why did they hide this information?

Read the following page about the miracle of Helena
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100318,00.html

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Reiver 2
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 02:28 PM

Well, I'm glad they've put in the smoking ban in Ireland, and wish it could be done all over the U.S. This will guarantee another trip to Ireland soon. I love Irish pub music, and we have some great Irish bands here in Arizona, but my wife won't go in a pub here due to the smoke. I don't like it either, though for Irish pub music I put up with it. Now at least when we visit Ireland again, she'll come with me to pubs and we can enjoy the music together.

Reiver 2

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: PennyBlack
Date: 09 Apr 04 - 03:11 PM

What a shame it wasn't left as a matter of choice?

Then from what some have said here you could have Non smoking pubs full of folk singers and smoking pubs would just have one or two people sat around cross infecting one another.

"Last night I had the strangest dream......."

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: GUEST,Kevin
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 11:45 AM

YO! eileen you said "find a pub with a non-smokers lounge." prior to the ban: no such thing. You had to breathe it in or not go out anywhere.

Smoking ban will has benefited all except cigarette vendors.
And I say benefited because people are reducing the amount they smoke which can only be a good thing.

Most of my friends smoke, I dont. Even they dont like other people blowing smoke in their face.

Subject: RE: DDay for smoking ban in Ireland
From: Joybell
Date: 15 Apr 04 - 07:05 PM

No such thing as a "smokers' lounge" here either. We had some public places with smokers tables and non-smokers tables - beside each other!! Would have been a joke if it wasn't such a serious problem. Joy