media coverage of Folk Music

Subject: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 12:39 PM

I've just been loking at tonights tv schedule, later on ITv, there is "ITV at the festivals", they show music from various rock festivals, like glastonbury etc, why don't they ever show any folk festivals, there is loads of them, the BBC show 1 programme about Cambridge folk festival on their digital channel, and thats it.

And radio, =there is 2 National Classical Music Stations in the UK, [BBC Radio 3 and Classical FM], a jazz channel [Jazz FM], dozens of pop and rock stations, but folk gets 1 hour a week!

on the digital output of BBC there is 5 Live Extra, that hardly ever broadcasts, they could use its frequency for a folk station, when its not broadcasting anything else, or alternativley, why don't they use on of the existing stations, They must have hundreds of hours of archive stuff they could use for a folk channel.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Crane Driver
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 01:57 PM

Television is part of the "Entertainment Industry", j0H9. Rule 1: "ordinary" people can't make music, they have to pay to listen to professionals. Folk music refuses to accept this, so the "Industry" tries to pretend we're not here. If people believed they could enjoy themselves making their own music together with their friends, how would the "Industry" hangers-on make their millions? Even the 1 hour a week we get on British radio for folk music concentrates on the top professional performers. All in all, we're better off without - switch off the damn telly, meet some mates and play music together. Music is NOT an industry!

Andrew

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:38 PM

More attention would probably have more bad effects than good. A few months of folk music being this month's flavour could probably do enormous harm to the music, and to a lot of people. It's bound to happen some time, but I wouldn't look forward to it.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Leadfingers
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:45 PM

There ARE those who say that the 'popularity' of Folk in the sixties spawned that Awful Abberration Folk Rock ! Now do we really want folk to become 'popular' again ? Just think what might hatch out the next time !!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:46 PM

BBC Radio broadcasts over 120 hours of classical music a week, and one hour of folk music - which can embrace blues, cajun etc . This means that the BBC probably only allocates 30 mins to British/Celtic folk music. BBC has always been elitist. 30 years ago folk music was definately more popular than classical - Christy Moore ( in "One Voice" ) talks about there being over 100 folk clubs in the Manchester area alone - but that was not reflected by air-time. ALSO, following the massive impact of "Riverdance" , how did the BBC respond to the obvious demand for such music -well... they didn't. AND, before somebody mentions regional BBC programmes, what they play on national radio is their statement as to what they think is important. It's a disgrace.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Bob P
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 02:53 PM

Folk has one enormous handicap getting mainstream media exposure.

Folk is non-disposable.

The danger of another scare like 40 years ago wherein folks would adopt anthems and keep them forever cannot be allowed to share space with stuff that must recycle every 8 weeks.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:35 PM

BBC does broadcast more than one hour per week. Radio 3 late evening broadcasting is a mixture which always seems to include some traditional material. Also some "Celtic" material gets mixed in with late afternoon broadcasts and the occasional bit of folk slips into the regular Early Music slot.

Personally I would rather folk music be regarded as "normal" and mixed in with general broadcasting in this way than have our own "ghetto" to encourage the rest of the world to switch off.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 03:50 PM

"Gets mixed in". Give over! So I should be prepared to sit through a pile of stuff I don't wish to hear just to catch the odd piece of folk music - try selling that concept to the classical music fans and see how far you get!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 07:11 PM

I should be prepared to sit through a pile of stuff I don't wish to hear just to catch the odd piece of folk music

I thought that was the majority view of Harding's show.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:13 PM

Heloo, = I rarely start serious threads here, reason is, i know very littele about folk music, but= this id a serious thread, and 1 thing thast pisses me off [i'm serious now, =no joking], folk music gets almost no airplay at all, ok= 1 hour on bbc 4 [waht most people cant get anyway] about galstonburry, yeah, rihght, greaght, waht a big commitment to folk music then!

and anyway=i dont meean to argue with mgrath of harlow, as i talkked to him threw pm, and i reckon he,s ok.
and i been in the army, and so did bIlly Bragg.

but i dont know waht he means by saying " too mutch publicity is no good for fplk eyc, etc, [or wahgtever he sayid]"

anyway= in my opimion, more folk on telly and radio, = more people getb imntrested in irt.john

ps=radio etc is shit, anbd they just play stuiff wahtg is in the charts, and wehn did you ever heare kate rusby on radio 1?

that proves it, radio 1 is suppoosed to be for young people, but thryu play rhe same shit, day in , day out, .john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:22 PM

anyway=if i had the money, and i knew how to do it, i would start my own folk station.

i emaled mike harding, and suggested he play some new folky stuff, and new people stuff.
[he dident even anser me!

dear mike harding= if you reading this, [i know you read mudcat, and this is media thead eetc]

play some different stuff, ie not elixa carthy, kate rusby, and cara dillon every week]

ps-i'm sick of heatring you waffle on about cara dillon every week, do you fancy her or sometjhing?]

no disrespect mate, but your show is getting s bit boring,=
and next time, have the bloody decency to reply to my email.

all the best.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Naemanson
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 10:47 PM

My goodness! When I saw the thread title I thought it was a USA sponsored thread. I didn't realize the UK has the same problem. However, I see we have the advantage with our National Public Radio system. They at least have several folk shows available in various states. Even here in Guam I can listen to Thistle & Shamrock, Prairie Home Companion, E-Town, and a locally produced folk show.

I would think that the country that fathered Bob Copper and his family, Martin Carthy and his family, and the many others I wish I could name would be able to broadcast that music to the people.

One interesting point. I enjoy shops that sell used CDs. I have noticed that rock & roll and country western music dominates the used CD bins. It is rare if ever you find a folk CD in there and that is coming from a state (Maine) where folk music is strong.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:09 PM

anyway= i said this before ["mike harding show is crap, and i told him"]

but least i speeak my mindnd, and tell people waht i think of them, [not like others= " heloo your great, blar, blar, blasr etc".

if i say something, then i say it, asnd i dont post as guset, [this= becuse i like to say waht i say etc"
[anfd gueset is too scared to say in his own name, but i'm not=
guest is a big puff.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:16 PM

Have you had a nice evening, j=hn?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:29 PM

piss off guest.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:34 PM

anyway= guest- you piss me off, i explain why, - you think youre bloody great, and you don't put your name, [if you goy something to say, then say it, [in your name, or shut up], evertyting i said here, is in my name, [ i neber post as hgguest], my name is John Evans
35 Chantelands Ave,
Hull
tel [phone]
, so, you got something to say, = say it then, .john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:36 PM

ps= and i bet you dont know nothing about flok nusic, so just get lost.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:42 PM

Splendid!

You'll be saying 'Goodnight", then....

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:48 PM

just watch it gueset.joghn

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:49 PM

What time is it on at?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:51 PM

guest- if you are mike harding, then reply, if you are not him, then just get lost.jiohn

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:53 PM

No!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 11:57 PM

just get lost gusest, i told you alresady, you dont make any good input to this thread, and you are noot mike harding, and you dont run a folk radio or tv show, and you dont know nothinh about folk music , so just get lost, and dont werite to my thread no more.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:03 AM

I just asked you if you had had a nice evening....
... and I have had my reply.

Thank you!

PS. What is the definition of Folk Music, by the way?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:06 AM

guest=i am not talikeing to you anymore.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:08 AM

GUEST-Your mother sells whelks in Hull.

john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:17 AM

You are confusing her with someone elses' mum, I think.
I doubt you have ever heard of mine

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:20 AM

blar, b;ar, n;ar, =just get ost.koghn

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:25 AM

No!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 12:27 AM

guest- you look like a turnip.john

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: pavane
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 01:46 AM

John, why do you fall for flamers, trolls etc and reply, instead of just ignoring the self-proclaimed idiots?

But I agree with your plea for more (and better) folk music.

Neither Eliza Carthy nor Bill/Belinda Jones can sing well, there are many better and less well known performers.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:15 AM

Oh I think that's a bit hard on EC and BJ. OK, they are not Jean Redpath, June Tabor, Maddy Prior, or Norma Waterson, (or even Marion Button) but they are pretty damn good, and if you compare their vocal abilities with most of the processed pap that seems to have replaced the once fiery rock music, they are streets ahead. Indeed (unsurprisingly) at times EC does sound a bit like NW, and that is no mean compliment.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:46 AM

Where i live near Rochdale/Manchester, there's a couple of local radio folk programmes that i listen to that are excellent - Lancashire drift(radio lancashire - thursdays at 8pm) which has been going for yonks and is brill. There's also Ali O'Brian's Sounds of Folk (Mondays on GMR at 8pm) still in its early days but is well worth a listen. So perhaps local radio is the answer to the British 'folk' media drought. I decided a long time ago, trying to get the national radio/tv to give our traditional music and performers sufficient airtime and recognition is like p'ing against the proverbial wind!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 03:59 AM

jOhn, you should know that you will never get a reply from Mike Harding if you criticise him or his show, he only replies to compliments.
I have been carrying on a campaign to get less country and western, rock, pop, blues etc and more good folk music on Mike's show for a few years, Mike has NEVER replied to any of my emails, he did however write a letter to that great magazine ' The Living Tradition ' and slag me off in public,[ issue 40 September 2000 ]
And he finally admitted that all that mattered was that he had increased the audience figures, not the music.
eric

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Crystal
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 05:42 AM

What we need are boy/girl bands all playing folk/celtic music. We could try to get the BBC or ITV to sponser Folk idol!
It might work you know.
I've been thinking of taking a stand and auditioning for the next Pop idol, singing traditional stuff natch, If enough media attention could be brought to bear then someone would have to do somthing.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Brindle
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:52 AM

The media is pushing commercial music, it wants to make a profit off of that that high-turnaround masss-appeal product - why expect it to cater to our tastes?
Seems to me that if we are looking for folk music then the best place to look is in the folk clubs, pub sessions, leisure centre concerts etc.
Folk music lends itself to the live environment far more than to the recorded or broadcast - and perhaps thats why its not more on TV or radio.
Instead of trying to get our beloved living passionate music into a deadening muffling electronic medium, why not put the effort into trying to spread the word and get more audience out to the live events?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 06:57 AM

Nicely put Brindle. There's nowt better than attending a live event, (assuming your able). Goin to any festivals this year?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Brindle
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:30 AM

Plenty festivals I hope! Its coming round to that time of year again...
Yourself?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:35 AM

Definately Saddleworth again so far. Maybe visit Poyton and go up to Whitby for the first time. Thinkin of Cropredy, shall have to suss out whats on and where

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:50 AM

Vin and Brindle - come to the Gainsborough Folk Festival in October. We need people. We need you. Bring your mates as well. We've got Jez Lowe & The Bad Pennies, John Connolly and Bill Meek (and hopefully Brian Dawson), Cockersdale, Julie Ellison, and others who I can't remember because of my aging grey-matter. It's held initially in a beautiful 15th-Century Moot Hall (The Old Hall) and later in a superb 200-seat theatre (Trinity Arts Centre). A small festival but very friendly. Hope you come.
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 07:56 AM

Sounds nice Johnny, shall gi it serious consideration

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:06 AM

This idea that increasing an audience equals success doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Of course, if Mike Harding plays more mainstream " middle of the road" material he will increase his audience , but that shouldn't be the point. If, for example, he had a "Kylie Special", he'd have his biggest audience figures ever - but what would that prove! If the BBC are serious about British/Celtic folk music they should 1. Get rid of Harding because .. a. he plays too wide a range of music - leave blues to Paul Jones, Mike ( i.e. I love the blues, btw) b. he keeps repeating the same tracks ( Paul Jones virtually never plays the same track twice) 2. Have a programme that is devoted to British/Celtic music - and state that aim up front! 3. the BBC should have a separate programme devoted to American (USA ) folk music - including tradional and contemporary artists. 4, 5, 6 .... I'll let somebody else fill in those points!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:15 AM

Ah!! we wish.
eric

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:22 AM

The trouble is - it's hard to fit all those programmes in one hour. More airtime, is what's needed. Nothing to do with Mike, or Smooth Operations.

Give me 6 hours air time per week, and I can do wonders. One hour each to traditional English, Welsh, Scottish, Celtic (of whatever provenance). Why, I'd even give one hour to World Music. And one hour for singer/songwriters.

But that just reflects my taste.

Now - how to get the airtime...any ideas?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 08:34 AM

To repeat myself, if the BBC can devote 120 hours per week to classical music, surely they - as El Greko says - could set aside "only" an hour a week for each of the music areas he listed. BUT how do we make the BBC - or, maybe more to the point - the government, listen! Of course, now may be a good time to draw attention to the BBC's failings, as the government are still annoyed at them over the Iraq reporting controversy.

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:10 AM

To get that amount of airtime, el greko, i reckon you'd have to set up a pirate station - now there's an idea! Fancy bein captain Harvey? Avast thar all ye scurvy 'band' lubbers.

Sure we'd get some recruits from the Shellbacks!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 09:38 AM

Pirate radio station, eh? Well, our generation did it once, we can do it again! In fact, radio on the web is dead easy to set up, I'm told.
How about setting up BMBC (British Mudcat Broadcasting Corporation)?

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:05 AM

Brilliant name EG - start recruiting!

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:14 AM

Isn't this the same thread as 'Dear Mr. Harding'?
I'm cOnf9us@ed!
Johnny :0)

Subject: RE: media coverage of Folk Music
From: VIN
Date: 01 Apr 04 - 10:40 AM

It's definately related Johnny.