Tech: Self Publishing

Subject: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Hyperabid forgot his password after all this
Date: 17 Apr 04 - 09:45 PM

Been off the Mudcat for a long time - recording music.

Met the guy who runs this new site at Sounds Expo 2004 - very committed if in early stages. Not a new concept but check it out. Like to here your comments.

www.songscribbler.com

Rgds
Hyperabid

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Hyperabid - Still a Guest
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 07:02 PM

Really like to here from you folks on this one.

Rgds

Hyp

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 08:40 PM

Looks like a great idea to me... but I'm not all that knowledgable about these things. Maybe someone who is will comment?

YY

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 18 Apr 04 - 09:28 PM

Does Songscribler gain any rights to your music?
If you decide to quit them, have they any hold over you?
They indicate that their percentage is 20% (I think). Any other fees? Collateral charges?
How will they advertise?
Do they have a nest egg to get them through the initial organization and set-up?
Do they have their own recording equipment-studio, or will this be subcontracted? Or is the musician-subscriber expected to furnish a cd?

Will the website be professionally set-up?

I believe some Mudcatters, like INOBU, have done their own cds or are in a cooperative. PM him and others. Would that be a better way to go?

Without knowing what kind of operation this outfit will set up, it is hard for anyone to give advice.

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: s&r
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 05:03 AM

does the site use a different format to .wav or MP3 etc? Nothing plays on my machine. A selection of the lyrics I looked at didn't impress.

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Hyperabid - Still a Guest
Date: 19 Apr 04 - 02:27 PM

S & R

I have had no problems using the MP3's and streaming audio on the site. Lyrically, most of the offerings are so far from the younger rock fraternity - hence - whilst I hate to generalise - sometimes not up to the kind of stuff you are used to!

I have the email of the site owner at work. I will drop him a line with your difficulties and get back to you via this thraed.

Rgds

Hyp

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 09:15 AM

Hi everyone. Thought I'd pop in and answer any questions.

I hope I'm not breaking forum etiquette by doing so and I'll try to avoid blatant self-promotion and stick to the facts.

My name is Andy Wilson and Songscribbler is my site. It started in earnest in January and has grown at a moderate, but steady, pace since then. The idea is that songscribblers take their best recordings of their best songs and post them to the site where they are displayed to the general download audience. To become a songscribbler costs £20 for the first year. £15 subsequent years. 1st year membership includes up to 5 song uploads up to 8 meg MP3. Additional song uploads are £1.

You select the 1 minute slice you would like previewed by potential buyers during the upload process (it's easy!)

If anyone buys a download of your song, 50p per download, I deduct credit card or premium rate charges, then VAT and divide the remainder 80/20 in the songwriter's favour. Payents are made via worldpay. You can draw down on your account any amount anytime as long as it's above (I think) £5. Bottom line is it works out to about £0.31 real money to you per download.

Did you get that???? (takes a breath)

I get no rights to your music save for the right to sell it on my site. There's a clause in the contract that gives me a little bit of revenue if the song gets a publishing deal within the renewable annual period. But if you just don't renew, I have no rights.

Streaming at present is real player only but this is being changed in the next few weeks to something a bit more versatile and acceptable.

Promotion to the download audience hasn't really started yet as I want to be quite sure the visitor has plenty of choice when I invite them in. When that time comes I have some reasonably exciting ideas to get things going. Join up and you'll learn more in the newsletter.

What else? ah yes

"Do they have a nest egg to get them through the initial organization and set-up?"

This bit is largely already spent. And it wasn't cheap either given the security and so on. The site was built by a professional IT Services company based on a written spec from me. Some people don't like the look but it's tough as nails I assure you.


"Do they have their own recording equipment-studio, or will this be subcontracted? Or is the musician-subscriber expected to furnish a cd?"

To be quite honest I'll take it any way I can get it while the site builds. Ideally you will upload tracks yourself as MP3, together with lyrics and notes. We have a nice intuitive interface to help with this that you won't see if you're not a member. But if you want to join but can't do that for whatever reason, I'll take a CD no problem and just do the work myself. I've already said I want to get the site populated asap to start work on the download audience. We have no recording facilities but intend to affiliate with existing studios in the future, maybe. But that's way in the future.

We've had some buying activity on the site already and a few grinning songwriters, but until I invite the downloaders in, that parts still a bit of an unknown.

I think I've said enough, although I have lots more to say. Feel free to post further questions.

There are some great songs on the site. I'm constantly amazed by how much really good stuff never makes money. I hope that my site makes commerce more accesible to the majority of songwriters. That's the plan.

Cheers

Andy

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 09:41 AM

Andy,
At first glance the idea seems good for starters who have not published yet (either self- or through a publishing company). But for those who have produced CDs already, and distribute them at gigs or through other means (NightCafe or Amazon or CD Baby), your "songscribbler" agreement is no good - its demand for exclusive distribution rights would render those other distribution channels inoperable.

I would have gladly added some of my tracks for distribution via your company, and for the benefit of having them promoted through that. But why should I bind myself to this agreement, when music.download.com, CDBaby etc can do the same without the exclusivity?

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 09:56 AM

Hey El Greko

The intention of the exclusivity in the agreement is for the digital distribution only. At the time I launched this site there were no competitors for it. There are now. (no I'm not going to tell you who:-)) Later, when there are even more and there is some stability, we can rely on the site's benefits to get songs on. For the moment, they're all pretty precious and the term you refer to is to ensure that once a song is on, it stays there a while as the site builds. It's pragmatic rather than commercial.

You're free to continue with your other methods. I support all commercial endeavours that benefit the songwriter. Maybe when the market is more mature it will be possible to relax even that element of exclusivity.

I'm not saying "instead", I'm saying "as well".

We don't sell cd's or allow free downloads.

Every songwriter must decide what's best for them. The difference that my site will bring to the party is that I will use the internet to build relationships with the downloader community. Instead of it being a transactional experience. But I don't expect you to take my word for it. Time will tell.

I hope this answers your question. Feel free to delve further.

And you'd be very welcome over at songscribbler, even with your new fangled online cd sales! There's nothing unusual about your situation. Just about all our members are trying to do the same things.

Cheers

Andy

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Hyperabid - Still a Guest
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 06:01 PM

Well great to see some healthy debate!

Thanks to Andy for coming on the Mudcat and answering questions directly.

Hyp

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:04 PM

Thanks from me too, Andy, for answering the questions I posed.

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: GUEST,Andy
Date: 20 Apr 04 - 08:41 PM

You're very welcome. A very polite forum. The technology has just caused me a great deal of discomfort, however.

I just replied to the poetry thread with...well frankly a fine piece of prose. But the system booted it out and now it's lost in cyberspace like Ripley in Aliens somethingorother. And last night I couldn't get in at all!!!!!

It's a disgrace, my words lost their place
The forum's conspirin', keepin' me in the sideline (eek)


Cheers

Andy

PS: So you're just going to leave me dangling with more to say and no-one to say it to?? Have you any idea how many downloads from my site are required for just one hour of therapy?

Subject: RE: Tech: Self Publishing
From: Hyperabid
Date: 06 May 04 - 04:32 PM

Finally I have remembered my password! I'm back great to see the mudcat is still the forum for informed debate it always was...

Thnaks to those of you who took a look at Andy'd site, he assures me there are more site development plans for the future. I might even give it a go.

Regards

Hyp