Origins: Christmas in the Trenches (McCutcheon)

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: EBarnacle
Date: 05 Dec 20 - 03:25 PM

There was a dramatization of this incident last night on our local Public Television station. It was followed by behind the scenes discussion from the actors. I believe the company that did it was from the Midwest.
Recommend it when it comes you way,

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST,Bliffnode
Date: 03 Dec 20 - 07:20 AM

If anyone is still looking for a copy of "Christmas in the Trenches" I have a 7" single by John McGrath with that and "Too Long Away" on the B side. It is listed on Discogs, you can message me on there if intrested.

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Dec 05 - 08:23 AM

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: artbrooks
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 02:36 PM

This one, Laurel? survivor.

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: open mike
Date: 04 Dec 05 - 01:43 PM

I have been playing this song recently and am reminded every time
of both the power of war and the power of music. I have a friend
who cries to think of the horrors of war every time she hears this
song. She especially remembers a medic who helped a young girl and
then the girl and her family were killed--blown to bit--the next
day. I was looking for the thread about the last survivor of the
truce passing away lately at a very advanced age..

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 02:22 AM

There is a most moving version of the song by a Scottish/Irish duo called the "Men of Worth". You can hear a sample of the song on their newest CD called Pattern Dance. Check it out on their website: www.menofworth.com (click "Recordings"). You will not be disappointed! Please listen and tell me what you think.

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST,Com Seangan
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 07:55 PM

The most moving eye witness account of the wonderful human event and the Spirit of Christmas is best captured in the autobiography of Fr. Wille Doyle S.J. who was chaplain to the British forces. He was with the Irish soldiers in the front line. He recalls how one 'Paddy' a bit the worse for wear stayed on in no man's land after the cease-fire ended, singing his intoxicated heart out.

All his comrades kept shouting " Get down, Paddy. Get down". Eventually, he got the message and stumbled back into the trench. But the Gerries held their fire until he had got down. Then all the horrors of the war broke loose again. Read it. It is moving.

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 02 Feb 05 - 03:00 PM

There was a documentary about this, which aired on UKTV HISTORY a couple of weeks ago.

They talked to people who were there, and quoted official sources, private letters home, etc.

The story was slightly different from those detailed above. They said that this took place all along the English/German front, and that there were a large number of football matches, including one with the well documented scoreline Germans 3 British 2 (amazingly not decided on penalties......my comment, not theirs), and one played with a real football brought over by a British Tommy.

They also said that the French refused to have anything to do with it, and remained in their trenches.

I suppose there are as many versions as there are storytellers.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 06:51 PM

Apparently it wasn't an isolated incident but a lot more widespread, also happening where German and French troops were facing each other. (The German author Carl Zuckmayer talks about it in his autobiography.)

At least three books have been written on it:

Stanley Weintraub, Silent Night: The Story of the World War I Christmas Truce (Simon & Schuster, NY 2001)
Michael Juergs, Der kleine Frieden im grossen Krieg (2003)
Malcolm Brown, Christmas Truce (????)

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Wolfgang
Date: 01 Feb 05 - 10:23 AM

Last Christmas the incident was 90 years old and got a good coverage in German newspapers. Some bits I remember:

The two parties agreed not to shoot at each other after the event and not to mention it 'further up'. But that failed. On the one hand the neighbouring companies noticed something unusual and on the other hand, the German headquarter noticed one war statistics looked wrong:

This part of the front had much less than the expected number of dead and wounded (when I read that I imagined them phoning the British headquarter and inquiring what was wrong on their part...). The telltale sign, however, was the sharp decrease of ammunition used on that front. Within 14 days after the event, both sides replaced the respective companies by new forces and the war statistics were quickly within the expected range again. The German headquarter decided to be quiet about the reasons for the replacement.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches
From: open mike
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 01:12 PM

i thought it was the "Internationale"
the instrumental that John M. plays

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches - tune source
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 04:30 AM

Thanks, Mick - yes, it's Minstrel Boy. I scanned this thread, but I must have skipped past the answer. I spent an hour looking for an answer, both here and at McCutcheon's site - and here it was under my nose.
I used the song last week - I'm home-schooling my stepson, and we were covering World War I.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Christmas in the Trenches - tune source
From: Brakn
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 04:22 AM

Joe, could it be "The Minstrel Boy" as previously mentioned by Bill Cameron
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 12:00 AM

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 Jan 05 - 03:30 AM

Another question about McCutcheon's "Christmas in the Trenches": there's an instrumental tune used as a break a couple of times in the recording - sounds like a march, or some sort of military tune. Anybody know the name of that tune?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: open mike
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 10:50 AM

if you wish to reach john McCutcheon, going through his web site is the most direct way. IT is not likely that he is a member of or reads this list. I am sure there is an e-mail link on his website at http://www.folkmusic.com/.

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From:
Date: 15 Aug 04 - 09:28 AM

This is a message to reach hopefully John Mc Cutcheon singer songwriter,guitarist,violonist and hammer dulcimer musician from the states.My name is Bieke from South africa and I would like to get in touch with John to see if we can organise also with him integration concerts in our country.For the moment we work already together with artists of 12 different countries.
Please come back to us and I'll explain you the concept in the hope we can arrange and work it out for you to tour in SA
all the best
Bieke

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: fox4zero
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 02:24 AM

About 10-15 years ago,for several years, there was an annual Xmas presentation on PBS call "Little Gifts" which consisted of a half dozen pieces. One piece related a Xmas truce and was attributed to a letter written by a young English officer who was killed in action a few months later.

There were other pieces by Dylan Thomas, Teddy Roosevelt....the entire program was very beautiful.

Larry

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 20 Nov 02 - 01:46 AM

Right, PJ. Jerry did a magnificent version, and like Mickey's, it would tear the heart out of you. Great job on producing that album, by the way.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST,PJ Curtis
Date: 19 Nov 02 - 01:17 PM

Seamus (above) mentioned the Cormac Mc Connell song 'A Silent Night (Christmas 1915)'..a stunning. show-stopper of a song...when reduced me to tears when first I heard the author himself sing it for me.
I had the pleasure of producing this song for the Clare singer Jerry Lynch , which was included on his '98 album "Dimming Of The Day' (Dolphin). Check it out.
pjc

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: David Ingerson
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 06:54 PM

Thanks, Glade. I will be looking it up soon.

It's gratifying to hear that three songs, a choral stage production, and a book have been produced about these significant events. I hope they stimulate many more such works. Events like these deserve to be widely known. Humans deserve to know about events like these!

David

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 04:31 PM

Our own Chordstrangler, Mickey McConnell, has yet another beautiful song on the same subject. I believe it was written by his brother Cormac. He can be PM'd here at Mudcat on how to get a hold of his CD.
Here we have three different and equally excellent songs on the same topic.

Seamus

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Santa
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 02:52 PM

This is Mrs Santa.Coope,Boyes and Simpson have a complete show about the truce. It was originally developed in Belgium with a Flemish choir and narration by written by the man who is now curator of a war museum(sorry, can't remember his name). They first performed it in the cathedral at Ypres. Last year it was translated into English and performed in the north of England using a choir of about 70 drawn from the area. I was fortunate enough to sing in that. Yesterday we finished the third performance this year. The songs are available on a CD called "Kerstbestand", which is Flemish for "Christmas Truce". This was recorded by C,B and S in conjunction with the Flemish Choir, but don't worry, most of it is in English.
If you're interested in the CD, suggest you contact C B and S via No Masters cooperative at www.nomasters.co.uk

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Teribus
Date: 18 Nov 02 - 03:51 AM

Hi Glade,

Thanks for mentioning the book "Silent Night", have read it and it was extremely interesting. The impression given of a sort of "universal" truce breaking out over the Christmas period 1914 is shown to be incorrect, it only occured sporadically along the line and depended on which regiments were facing each other. I liked the bit in the book where the Germans warned the British that they were about to be relieved by a Prussian Regiment who might not go along with the "truce". Another where the occupants of both sets of trenches were ordered to fight and came to a common understanding that while both would still fire, the shots would be fired into the air or in such a way that they would not cause any casualties.

It is a very good read - highly recommended.

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:23 AM

See the "What a Wonderful Holiday Concert Idea" thread for more information on the song.

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Glade
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 09:01 AM

Found it! "Silent Night : The Story of the World War I Christmas Truce" by Stanley Weintraub was published in 2001 by Simon & Schuster. The hardbound copy's ISBN # is 0-6848-7281-1. Maybe it's out in paperback by now.
Glade

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: open mike
Date: 15 Nov 02 - 01:46 AM

There is also a song about this truce by Redmond O'Colonies
a fellow who now livce in the san francisco bay area. I
can't find the tape just now-i am sure it was not the McCutcheon
version but it might be the other 1914 song. I love to sing John McCutcheon's Christmas in the trenches each year live at my local
community radio station during their folk show and cider and cookie
party. Is anyone else here in the Chico California area? If so,
I will invite you to join in a horse-drawn wagon ride and carolling
party!!

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 11:34 PM

Hi, MMB. I have to admit that at one McCutcheon concert, I wrote a request that he not sing "Christmas in the Trenches. He didn't honor my request. I think I've been to a dozen McCutcheon concerts, and he's sung "Trenches" at every one. I guess it's like asking Arlo not to sing "Alice's Restaurant."
It IS a good song, but I have the same cut on at least four CD's.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: mmb
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 09:03 PM

John will be here in the Tampa Bay area on Nov. 23! Yayy! I hope it's close enough to the Christmas Season for him to do Christmas in the Trenches. Or maybe with unemployment so high, he'll resurrect Detroit December.

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 06:53 PM

If John McCutcheon's story of how he came to write "Christmas in the Trenches" is true, he had not heard the story until not long before he wrote the song. In his live shows he tells about being cornered by a theater custodian after he had finished his set and having the story told to him.   

Bruce

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:41 PM

Please dig it out, Glade!

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: David Ingerson
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 05:12 PM

From my conversations with the granddaughter of one of the (German)participants I gathered that there were a number of such incidents, that there were hundreds of desertions in the following days, weeks, months, and that the following Christmas the generals made sure it wouldn't happen again by ratcheting up the war to its greatest intensity. My friend's grandfather became a life-long pacifist that night.

I would love to get a copy of the book you mentioned, Glade. Please do find the title and post it! I'm sure I'm not alone. Someone mentioned they had never learned it in school. Me neither. I learned about it from John's song. But our children deserve to learn about such events, such decisions, and such human potential.

David

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Glade
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 04:13 PM

This discussion is way fascinating. Last Christmas I gave my husband a book that had just come out on the 1914 occurence. Can't remember the title. I'll find out. It's under something around here someplace.
Glade

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: GUEST,NoMattch
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 03:31 PM

I've heard that the French ranks also had their truces during the war and on one particular day in May 1917, the soldiers refused to go back to the trenches. Many were court-martialled and 54 were shot by the firing squad.

Subject: RE: Christmas in the Trenches
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 Nov 02 - 01:59 PM

I thought this post from Bob Bolton deserved a place here.
-Joe Offer-

---

Thread #37092   Message #517481
Posted By: Bob Bolton
30-Jul-01 - 12:08 AM
Thread Name: Know any hard-hitting christmas songs?
Subject: RE: Know any hard-hitting christmas songs?

G'day IanB,

I was working down, thinking of suggesting Ewan McColl's Moving On Song ... but I see the Keith suggested it. It is subtle ... but has a hard hit for those who think ...

On another point, John McCutcheon's Christmas in the Trenches and the events of 25 December 1914 came to my mind the other day when, in a totally different line of research, I came upon the note that "The Germans first threw grenades in to English trenches on 27 December 1914".

There is no mention of dates for English grenade use, but they had seen trench warfare in the Russo-Japanese war of a few tears before and went into WWI with one crude grenade ... a dodgy glass jar of high explosive on the end of a stick and fitted with a contact fuse. Many struck the trench wall and killed the thrower. It all brings you back to earth even more abruptly that John McCutcheon's last verse.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: good point Harald
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 09:57 PM

Quite so Harald, except of course nobody called it World War I at the time. The Great War (oxymoron) or The War to End Wars (another oxymoron). Whatever you call it, it was a horrible bloody, muddy mess and historians are still arguing over what it was about.

It's interesting that the songs that seem to have staying power are the ones lamenting the destruction of humanity, not the patriotic jingoist ones. (Unless they get institutionalized like The Star Spangled Banner or The Maple Leaf Forever.)

Nice to see that that translation exists.

Peace. Bill

Subject: RE:
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 03:31 PM

P.S.

VA center on West Spring Street, West Haven, CT, building 2, 2nd floor dining room.

And that's "phantom" not "phamtom."

Subject: RE:
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 03:28 PM

This song will be performed live tonight (Saturday, 12/19/1998) by Mike McCann, of the New Haven area.

The Shaws & friends will be doing a carol sing at the Veterans Medical Center in West Haven, CT, USA, followed by the annual family reunion of the McCann Clan (known as the "Phamtom Nativity Choir"), during which they do an amazing program of old and new Christmas songs, including "Christmas in the Trenches." If you would like to join the carol sing and/or hear the McCann program, be there at 6:30. Bring cookies.

Mike has recorded this song on his new CD called "Soldier Songs."

Subject: Lyr Add: ES IST AN DER ZEIT (Ger. 'Green Fields...
From: Harald Schmidt
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 05:29 AM

Dear Bill,

you are right but also the Germans thought that WW I would be over in a short time. There are German songs of WW I, most of them against the struggle. Some are original written by soldiers before they died. Some are written later by popular singers - like "Christmas in the trenches". One of my favourites is the singable German translation of Eric Bogle's "Green Fields Of France" - (it's in the DB - Filename NOMANLD) written by Hannes Wader and called ...

ES IST AN DER ZEIT

Weit in der Champagne im Mittsommergrün,
da wo zwischen Grabkreuzen Mohnblumen blühn,
da flüstern die Gräser und wiegen sich leicht
im Wind der sanft über das Gräberfeld streicht.

Auf deinem Kreuz finde ich, toter Soldat,
deinen Namen nicht, nur Ziffern, und jemand hat
die Zahl neunzehnhundertundsechzehn gemalt,
und du warst nicht einmal neunzehn Jahre alt.

CH: Ja auch dich haben sie schon genauso belogen,
so wie sie es mit uns heute immer noch tun.
Und du hast ihnen alles gegeben:
deine Kraft, deine Jugend, dein Leben.

Hast du, toter Soldat, mal ein Mädchen geliebt?
Sicher nicht, denn nur dort, wo es Frieden gibt,
können Zärtlichkeit und Vertrauen gedeihn.
Warst Soldat, um zu sterben, nicht, um jung zu sein.

Vielleicht dachtest du dir, ich falle schon bald,
nehme mir mein Vergnügen wie es kommt mit Gewalt.
Dazu warst du entschlossen, hast dich aber dann
vor dir selber geschämt und es doch nie getan.

Es blib nur das Kreuz als die einzige Spur
von deinem Leben. Doch hör meinen Schwur
für den Frieden zu kämpfen und wachsam zu sein.
Fällt die Menschheit noch einmal auf Lügen herein,

dann kann es geschehn, daß bald niemand mehr lebt,
niemand, der die Milliarden von Toten begräbt.
Doch es finden sich mehr unhd mehr Menschen bereit,
diesen Krieg zu verhindern, es ist an der Zeit.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 24-Jun-02.

Subject: RE: Xmas in the Trenches
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 19 Dec 98 - 12:00 AM

I think the tune to the song is McCutcheons, but the instrumental break (a viola?) is the Irish tune & song
"The Minstrel Boy"

To that part you can sing:

"The minstrel boy to the wars has gone
In the halls of death you'll find him
His father's sword he has girded on
And his great harp strung (swung? hung?) behind him"

Christmas in the Trenches is one of those songs that has gotten around a lot without credit to the author--he may be a big star to us folkies but most people will never hear of him! I've heard an Irish band who should know better attribute it to "Francis Tolliver"!

While a lot of Canadians think John McDermott wrote it, or that it's an old song.

I guess that proves its quality, but I find I'm a bit annoyed at performers who sing it every night without crediting the writer.

As for the original incident, no doubt its significant that it happened in 1914, a time of relative innocence when they thought the war with Germany would be over in a few months. If only!
Bill


Bill

Subject: RE:
From: Brack&
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 08:03 PM

Another singer from Northern Ireland has put on his CD. Joe McShane.

I thought it was excellent.

Mick Bracken

Subject: RE:
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 11:26 AM

Actually, Geek is an old carnival term, dating way back befor computers. A geek was a freak-show "performer" whose act consisted of biting ther heads off live chickens.

Subject: RE:
From: Harald Schmidt
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 10:58 AM

Thanks John, I'll ask and look for it.

Subject: RE:
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 02:52 AM

Harald, Danny Doyle does a beautiful version on a CD released maybe 8 years ago. Sorry but I don't recall the name.

Regards
John

Subject: RE:
From: Harald Schmidt
Date: 18 Dec 98 - 01:10 AM

John McGrath, a singer from Northern Ireland, recorded John McCutcheon's "Christmas in the Trenches" more than 10 years ago on a tape called " A man you don't need every day". I am still looking for that tape (or vinyl or cd or realaudio or ...) again. Any ideas where I can get it again?

Subject: RE:
From: Alice
Date: 17 Dec 98 - 07:37 PM

Great discussion. Thank you for all the background information on both songs.

Subject: RE:
From: Barbara
Date: 17 Dec 98 - 07:26 PM

So mote it be.

Subject: RE:
From: harpgirl
Date: 17 Dec 98 - 07:15 PM

Tonight, I am going to build a fire in the fireplace and sing this song. I hope for peace on earth...harpgirl

Subject: RE:
From:
Date: 20 Oct 98 - 01:19 PM

okay, folks, getting the idea ...
What else DO you need if you've got Mudcat. You certainly are great companions and make me laugh more often than some of my friends over here! (Quite apart from the odd bit of useful information I've garnered from these waves? currents? ...
Thanks bseed and Barbara. I did have a vague idea what seed was driving at, so now I know.
Who invented Mudcat? He (she? - no, it was probably Max) deserves a gong! - Keep it up! Susanne

Subject: RE:
From: Barbara
Date: 17 Oct 98 - 05:14 PM

Ayah, 'seed, and if she doesn't know 'geek', is she going to know 'scuzzy'? I can't offhand remember what piece of computer jargon it is slang for - 'SC-something'. Suzanne, geek is like nerd, is like hacker (some will tell you that some of these words are more positive than others). And it describes someone who learned all their social skills from a computer. (which is the only place they need them anyway, since that's where they spend all their time anyway). (Unlike the rest of us, who just Mudcat..).
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE:
From: BSeed
Date: 17 Oct 98 - 02:27 PM

Suzanne: I noticed that nobody bothered to explain the Americanism involved to you: "It's all geek to me" is a pun--"geek" in this usage means someone whose brain has a scuzzy link to his computer. --seed