need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'

Subject: need copyright info
From: GUEST,Jill M Dornan
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:01 AM

I want to record the tune "waltzing with bears" and I know that somewhere out there is a copyright. Does anyone know where the proper copy right is? I just want to give credit where credit is due.
Thanks
Jill

Subject: RE: need copyright info
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:34 AM

Copyright info in Canada can be found at the CMRRA (Canadian Music Recording Rights Association) site - http://www.cmrra.ca/default.html
If you're in the States, I think you have to go through the Harry Fox Agency.

Here's what the CMRRA site had for "Waltzing with Bears" (and as a sidenote, "traditional" doesn't sound right for that song, but I'm not presenting myself as an expert by any stretch of the imagination):


Song Number:        386357        

Song Title:        WALTZING WITH BEARS        
Writer(s):        TRADITIONAL
                MARXEN(ARR)        
        
Publisher(s):        
TOMORROW RIVER MUSIC        
Not Represented
        
Note:
This entry is for MECHANICAL licensing
The publisher name(s) listed above may or may not also reflect the ownership of this song with respect to SYNCHRONIZATION licensing. Please contact CMRRA for further details about any territorial limitations for synchronization licensing purposes.

Subject: RE: need copyright info
From: GUEST,Jeremiah McCaw
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 01:41 AM

A-HA! A further search turned up this tidbit:

Words and music by Dr. Seuss, Eugene Poddany, and Dale Marxen

I accomplish so much when I'm hit by a bout of insomnia.   :-)

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 02:07 AM

This page has a lot of information about the song. It's NOT listed by songfile.com, the online facility of the Harry Fox Agency. As far as I can determine, rights are held by:

Tomorrow River Music
P.O. Box 165
Madison, WI 53701-0165
phone: [phone]

Give them a call and see if that's correct. Hope that does the trick.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 08:38 AM

wah-wah-waltzing; waltzing with bears!

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: black walnut
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 08:45 AM

There is a Waltzing with Bears song recorded by Canadian Kathy Reid-Naiman, co-written by Kathy and Sally Jaegar, I believe. It goes "1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3, waltzing with bears". Does that sound like the one, Jill?

~b.w.

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 09:09 AM

folks, check out the 'Waltzing with Bears, again, sorry.......' thread, there are lots of verses there & lotsa' good info too.

As a bear collector & maker, I've had many a version of this song dedicated to me. I also have copies of the cover of the original Uncle Suess book & 2 versions of Uncle Walter & bear dancing around, drawn by a local folkie artist.

sandra

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: jmdornan
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 11:05 AM

Thanks for all teh info, it's great to have such a wonderful resource here!
Jill

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: open mike
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 11:20 AM

the original book by dr. seuss was uncle terwilliger waltzes with bears.
if you search for this song in the data base here (see lyrics and knowl;edge search box) ytou will see previous discussions, verses, etc.
There have been copyright problems with this song, as once, Dr. Seuss
(or his lawyers, or estate) were rumoured to basically forbid anyone to play it, or some such nonesense. Sing Out magazine once repported that they were not allowed to print the lyrics do to this. Good lluck and let us know what you find out. I would like to thing that situation has changed and that the song will find it's way to many ears...er, um bears..

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 12:17 PM

I think you'll find that this thread gives the most comprehensive coverage of the song. I see that Animaterra has the Dr. Seuss version of the song in her school library, and that she didn't post it. I have sent her a personal message, asking her to give us the Seuss lyrics.
Note that all the threads on this song and the DT entry are crosslinked at the top of this thread.
If anybody ever has contact with Tomorrow River Music, please let us know if it's the correct place to get permission/rights for this song.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,Kate
Date: 22 Apr 04 - 12:19 PM

Years ago, Holly Tannen wanted to record this song and was refused permission by the good Dr. and/or his estate. Our loss, she does a great versioin of it...

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Callie
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:36 AM

Hi all

My group Touchwood recorded the song a few years ago. The composers we acknowledged were Geissel/Poddany/Marxen. The song is based on the Dr Seuss song but not the same melody and slightly different words. The authors of the song whcih is weel known claim not to have heard Dr Seuss' song when they wrote "Bears" which has to be a load of #%*& because the similarities are too great.

I guess copyright arrangements differ from country to country. in Australia (where we are) once a song has been recorded or published it's open slather (just so long as you acknowledge authorship and pay royalties through the appropriate body - in out case APRA/AMCOSS)

Happy waltzing!

Callie

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 10:42 AM

Please excuse my ignorance. What is "synchronization recording"????

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From:
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:01 AM

Hi,
I hold the copyright to "Waltzing With Bears". It was submitted to the copyright office in 1986 for me by Robbie Clement of Tomorrow River Music.    At that time, Robbie informed the US Library of Congress copyright office of the Dr. Seuss song, but the copyright office determined at that time that "Waltzing With Bears" and the Dr. Seuss song were substantially different works, and therefore "Waltzing With Bears" deserved and was given its own copyright. Any uncertainty about copyright, including that involving Holly Tannen, occurred prior to this resolution by the Library of Congress. There is really no uncertainty about it. For about eight years royalties were sent to me through Robbie, but for about the last ten years royalties are now sent directly to me. Please contact me for further information.
Dale E. Marxen
2930 Shoshone Trail
Lafayette, CO 80026
[phone]
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 07:15 AM

I have heard of extra verses that involve "aunt somebody' that carry on the story - any help?

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 07:42 AM

Foolestroup - I have 2 versions of the Matilda verse -

one is a printout of one of the threads at the top of this thread (the closed one??) Once upon a time I printed out all the verses that have been added to this song by various artists around the place.

My Aunt Matilda was mad as could be
"Walter, that rat, never waltzes with me
So she took her fur coat and remodelled it so
She can go waltzing, and Walter won't know.
the credit says Lui Collins (live concerts)

the second version was given to me by Evan & Lyn (who I assume you would know)

My Aunt Matilda's as mad as could be
She said that rat Walter never dances with me
So she took her fur coat and remodelled it so
She can go waltzing, and Walter won't know.
(credited to Marcie Maxer, published in Sing Out 1999)

sandra

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:03 PM

Dale, thanks so much for posting here. The song draws opinions from both ends of the spectrum, but the kids I teach LOVE it and that works for me!
I've never recorded it, never performed it outside of school assemblies, but now that I've heard from the horse's mouth, this may change!

Allison

Subject: Lyr Add: GOLFING WITH HARES (parody of WALTZING...
From: GUEST,celtaddict at work
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 04:15 PM

Good to hear from you, Dale! I know a couple of musicians who have recorded it and while they credited you with writing it (alone or in the form of "by Dale Marxen, based on a story by Dr. Seuss") they have told me they were unable to reach you for royalty purposes. Perhaps this was because they were trying to go through Tomorrow Music. I will forward this contact information! This song has clearly entered The Tradition and I suspect that, like Larry Kaplan's "Old Zeb" and John Connelly's "Fiddler's Green" (and many of the Irish or Irish-American standards) there are people learning and singing it that have no idea how recent it is.

Foolstroupe, there is a distaff version of this which I heard in the early 90s in New Orleans, from a woman who said she did not know who wrote it, that goes

GOLFING WITH HARES
(by Sue Trainor of Hot Soup)

I go upstairs in the middle of the night,
To check on my aunt, for she's not wrapped too tight.
Since our Uncle Walter died, here is our plight:
My Auntie Agnes goes golfing at night!

She goes gah, gah, gah, gah, gah, golfing with hares;
Hoppy hares, floppy hares, moppy hares too.
There's nothing on earth Auntie Agnes won't do
So she can go golfing, golfing with hares.

We told Auntie Agnes that she should be good,
And rock on the porch like an old lady should.
She fluffed up her tail and she grabbed up her wood
And waltzed off to the fairway as fast as she could.
She goes. . .

We begged and we pleaded, "Oh, please, won't you stay?
It's not safe for seniors to night-walk that way."
She said, "It's the only time bunnies can play:
They just can't get good tee-off times in the day!"
She goes gah, gah, gah, gah, gah, golfing with hares,
Hoppy hares, floppy hares, moppy hares too.
There's nothing on earth Auntie Agnes won't do.
So she can go golfing, golfing with hares.

We put Auntie Agnes in psychiatric care,
In a home where her illness would much better fare
But the bunnies barged in and played golf with her there;
She developed this habit
Of golfing with rabbits,
Back when Uncle Walter was waltzing with bears!

This follows the format of the original so closely that I can't help thinking there must be another verse to correspond to the "new coat" verse.

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 05:31 PM

Thanks to both of you for your extra verses!

"She goes gah, gah, gah, gah, gah"   ROFL!

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,cookieless celtaddict
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 05:43 PM

Oops, left out a bit (besides the first "o" in Foolestroupe). It should end:

We put Auntie Agnes in psychiatric care,
In a home where her illness would much better fare
But the bunnies barged in and played golf with her there;
She developed this habit
Of golfing with rabbits
Back when Uncle Walter was waltzing with bears.

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 06:25 PM

Ah yes - this last verse fits the chorus well... :-)
The sort of humour I often try for...

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:22 AM

I can tell you with absolute certainty that "Golfing with Hares" was written by Sue Trainor of Hot Soup. It's one of her many, many well-crafted songs and extremely funny parodies. She is also (more recently) the author of "eBay-o" (which you can listen to if you scroll down a bit on the page linked to above).

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,cookieless celtaddict
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 06:59 AM

Great! Thanks, YY, for the info on a song I have long enjoyed sharing, and for the link as well.
I have never been able to decide if it is actually a parody when it is not really any sillier than the original song.

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: NightWing
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 09:23 PM

On the Hot Soup page (see Yorkshire Yankee's post above), you can listen to "Golfing with Hares" (first two verses, anyway) by clicking the "In a Closeup Sampler" under "Appetizers".

It's quite as funny as y'all described.

BB,

NightWing

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: JennyO
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:44 AM

I got adventurous tonight at a session and sang "Golfing with Hares", reading from what I had printed out - only had slight trouble with phrasing in one line, and had people singing along in the chorus pretty much from the beginning. Then later, somebody else sang "Waltzing with Bears" - a good night for Sandra!

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,The Vulgar Boatman
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:40 AM

My uncle Ahab goes waltzing with whales...

KYBTTS

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 07:04 PM

Don't stop there - keep going...


"and of his voyage, I've many fine tales"...

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,Sue Trainor
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 09:34 PM

Glad you're enjoying "Golfing with Hares"!

I have a wonderful letter from that singer in New Orleans -- it's deep in my archives, and I can't seem to find it right now (so I'm not remembering her name), but it was a wonderful story about how the club she sang in used "Waltzing with Bears" as their theme song and, one day, she discovered the "Golfing" parody on a crumpled paper at the bottom of her gig bag. She started singing the parody and IT apparently became the club theme song for awhile. Anyway, I got a big kick out of her letter, and I'm happy to hear that the song still evokes a giggle or three out in the world.

If you want "eBay-o", snag it off the website quickly, because we're about to release a new CD with it, and it will come off the site as a freebie.

If you like parodies, you also might want to check out the Hot Soup "Soup Happens" CD for a parody of "Last Thing on My Mind" (don't know what was... ) with Tom Paxton singing harmony. ;-)

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Rog Peek
Date: 01 May 07 - 06:58 PM

Sorry, I thought I'd posted this message before the lat one. I think I must be getting too old to stay up this late.
What I had sent, I thought was:

On his 2003 Uk tour Tom Paxton sang a final verse which somebody had found on the internet and sent to him. It went someting like this:

Well I met this young girl at a folk club,
Like you do, like you do.
So I bought her a drink and we chatted,
Wouldn't you, wouldn't you.

And then after the show she invited me home,
And she said we were two of a kind,
Then she played me every record
That Tom Paxton ever made,
And you know that was the last thing on my mind.

Goodness knows where I sent it the last time. Think I'd better go to bed!

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:43 PM

I believe TOMORROW RIVER is my old friend Robbie Clement in Wisconsin.

Last info I have is about ten or twelve years old.

Robbie Clement
Box 245
Cambridge, WI 53523
608 423-3095

or

W9126 South Cedar Road
Cambridge, WI 53523

Aet

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 01 May 07 - 11:48 PM

That should read Art----not Aet!!

Subject: ADD: Waltzing With Bears (parody)
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 May 07 - 09:06 AM

WALTZING WITH BEARS(Parody)
(Bob Townshend)

My Uncle Walter's not right in the head,
"I want to go waltzing with bears" Walter said,
So he went to the zoo and climbed up on a shed,
Jumped in with the bears and he ended up dead.

Eaten by bears, eaten by bears,
Raggy bears, baggy bears, shaggy bears too,
There's nothing on earth anybody could do
And my Uncle Walter, poor Uncle Walter,
My Uncle Walter got eaten by bears.

He went to the zoo in the middle of the night,
Jumped in the bears' cage and turned on the light.
He started to waltz - they started to bite,
And my Uncle Walter got eaten that night.

We begged and we pleaded "Oh, please won't you stay,"
We managed to keep him alive for a day
But the bears all marched in and they took him away,
Now the bears all demand at least one Walt a day.

My Uncle Walter got eaten by bears,
It's a most unbearable state of affairs,
But he left me a fortune so nobody cares
That poor Uncle Walter got eaten by bears.

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,JenE
Date: 24 Feb 08 - 01:55 PM

I tried to get a hold of Dale. No luck. Anybody have any further info for copyright permission?

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Cool Beans
Date: 25 Feb 08 - 12:09 PM

The man himself posted this on Dec. 19, 2007.:


Hi Celtaddict and Joe Offer,
This is Dale E. Marxen, the songwriter for "Waltzing With Bears". I am currently living in Croatia, and my address is:

Dale E. Marxen
Nova Cesta 154, K1-3
10000 Zagreb, Croatia

Telephones:
In Zagreb: 385 01 309 4602 (home) or 385 098 930 3017 (mobile)
Skype Name: Dale E. Marxen
email address: [e-mail]

Royalty checks should be mailed to the following US address:

Dale E. Marxen
C/O Vida Sabeti
979 Arapahoe Circle
Louisville, CO 80027

Please note that my song, "Waltzing With Bears", was determined by the US Copyright office in 1986 to be a unique song, and not an adaptation of the Dr. Seuss song, "My Uncle Terwiliger Waltzes With Bears". At the time of copyright, the publisher, Robbie Clement at Tomorrow River Music, sent both songs in to the copyright office, and that was their determination. For further information, feel free to contact the original publisher, Robbie Clement at:

Tomorrow River Music
PO Box 165, Cambridge, WI, United States
[phone], [phone] fax

Best wishes, and I would also be glad to hear from you via any of the above methods.
Sincerely,
Dale Marxen

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: GUEST,Betsy McGovern
Date: 24 Dec 10 - 11:43 AM

I'm that "woman/singer" in New Orleans. I was going to post Sue Trainor's name as the composer of Golfing with Hares, and then, there she is! (Man, these internets are so amazing...;)

Subject: RE: Origin: Waltzing with Bears
From: GUEST,cvmurph26
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 12:07 PM

So, ultimately, who owns copyright to the Uncle Walter version?

Subject: RE: Origin: Waltzing with Bears
From: Joe Offer
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 02:43 PM

Hi, Murph-
I moved your message here to the copyright discussion. See the crosslinks above for the various threads discussing this song.
I guess I'd say that the answer to your question is, "It's disputed." The Harry Fox Agency's songfile.com licensing site attributes a song with that title to JAMES DAVID HARRAH, JULIANNA RAYE - but is it the same song, or what? Those names hadn't been mentioned in the discussion so far - I see above that when I checked earlier, Songfile.com didn't have a listing for the song. I think I'd give the credit to Dale Marxen.

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Archivist-

Subject: RE: need copyright info - 'Waltzing With Bears'
From: Cool Beans
Date: 17 Sep 11 - 03:12 PM

When I recorded it, I credited (and paid) Dale Marxen.