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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: GUEST,Kate Date: 27 Apr 04 - 01:47 PM I just wanted to thank Lighter for mentioning the compilation CD of Folk Songs of Old England and Summer Solstice. It's called Heydays and is available from Amazon.com. I've ordered it and happily anticipate its arrival! Yay! |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Pied Piper Date: 27 Apr 04 - 06:38 AM I saw PP being un-sarcastic I saw PP being un-sarcastic I saw PP being un-sarcastic And wearing trousers without elastic |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: alanww Date: 27 Apr 04 - 06:23 AM As Malcolm Douglas says, it is a very old song. William Chappell in his "Popular Music of the Olden Time", published in 1855-1859 gives the 1588 and 1609 references that Malcolm quotes and also says that:- "... it is alluded to in Dekker's comedy, Old Fortunatus, where Shadow says: "Only to make other idiots laugh, and wise men cry 'Who's the fool now?' " which is the burden of every verse. It is thought to be a satire upon those who tell wonderful stories." And there are still a few of such people about today! "I saw the man in the moon ...!" Alan |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Bryant Date: 27 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM There are quite a few morris side verses: I saw the Squire buy a round - Fie Man, Fie, I saw the Squire buy a round - Who's the fool now, I saw the Squire buy a round - Saw the Bagman turn one down, Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now. I saw ***** dance a jig - Fie Man, Fie, I saw ***** dance a jig - Who's the fool now, I saw ***** dance a jig - He looked just like a drunken pig, Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now. and for the ladies: I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Fie Man, Fie, I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Who's the fool now, I saw a lass dance Shepherd's Hey - Halfway through her bra gave way, Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now. And of course you could even have one for a I saw old Spaw hold his wind - Fie Man, Fie, I saw old Spaw hold his wind - Who's the fool now, I saw old Spaw hold his wind - When he let it out, God how he grinned, Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Hanson Date: 27 Apr 04 - 02:23 AM I saw the ' commons ' on Tv, fie man fie, I saw the ' commons ' on TV, who's the fool now, I saw the ' commons ' on TV, I won't renew my license fee eric |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 26 Apr 04 - 05:54 PM I saw a potato chip in a bag but alas, it was crushed. A crushed potato chip is not a loss, alack, it is now many. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Borchester Echo Date: 26 Apr 04 - 05:21 PM Bugger, got that wrong didn't I? Meant to say "Spurs win away" Not that it matters as they're not likely to do either... |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Borchester Echo Date: 26 Apr 04 - 05:19 PM One for Kevin: I saw the Spurs win at home Which really made Arsenal's day hehe! |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: GUEST,Andrew Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:44 PM I saw a flea heave a tree Half way cross the Irish sea or maybe I saw the Villa win the cup And Walsall they did go up.. Andrew |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:28 PM Let the chips fall where they may. And back to my musical origins question: "I've always wondered who the brilliant person was who composed this verse: I saw a butterfly flutter by... Saw a dragonfly drink a flagon dry... We learned it from Chez Watts of Bristol." Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Les in Chorlton Date: 26 Apr 04 - 02:01 PM I guess it's the kind of song you can verses to forever. I don't know about the rest of you but enough has been said about chips te al. Thanks again |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Bryant Date: 26 Apr 04 - 12:13 PM In an attempt to re-join the split topics: I saw a spud fry the oil - fie man, fie. I saw a spud fry the oil - who's the fool now. I saw a spud fry the oil - before it was pulled from the soil. Thou hast well drunken man - who's the fool now. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Schantieman Date: 26 Apr 04 - 11:44 AM Since potato chips are pieces of potato cut into cuboids and deep fried, kettle chips must be pieces of kettle.... I'll get my coat S |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Charley Noble Date: 26 Apr 04 - 09:12 AM I've always wondered who the brilliant person was who composed this verse: I saw a butterfly flutter by... Saw a dragonfly drink a flagon dry... We learned it from Chez Watts of Bristol. Cheerily, Charley Noble |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 26 Apr 04 - 09:05 AM Actually Pied Piper, it is allegedly a (French) Chef who was trying to cook potatoes for his Lord & Master. He boiled them, but due to some misunderstanding in the kitchen, they were well underdone and cold, and it was almost time to serve, but long enough for them to finish, so he cut them up, and deep fried them, then presented them as a special dish, the great ceremony allowing the extra few minutes to prepare them. Another good story is that a 19C Chinese gentleman got on the wrong boat, and ended up in England instead of the USA. He made a living by using his wok to deep fry small fillets of fish and sliced potatoes (both were cheap for him to buy!) and selling them in the street, thus was born the great English craze. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Bryant Date: 26 Apr 04 - 08:50 AM OK - I suppse that I'm thick-skinned enough. I heard Dave Bryant sing a song . . . . . . . It was too bloody loud and too bloody long ! Mind you, in some ways that's out of kilter with the other verses which are all about unlikely things - it's never been difficult getting me to sing ! |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Pied Piper Date: 26 Apr 04 - 08:43 AM Maris Piper makes the best Chips with the double frying technique above. This variety was developed in the UK were we cook things rather than pulverise extrude and process in the cheapest oil to keep 100 million Americans morbidly obese. PP |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 26 Apr 04 - 08:23 AM French Fies? Then there is kettle cooked chips, my favorite, like those Cape Cod ones. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Masterson Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:59 AM Come on Dave, cough up... what was the second line! (If anyone want to pm me, I'll tell them! tee-hee...) |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Bryant Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:47 AM I like the verse: I saw the Ale drink the Man . . . . . . . . by the bucket and the can. But I object to the verse that Hartley Morris used to sing that started: I heard Dave Bryant sing a song . . . . |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Borchester Echo Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:26 AM Yep. But Robin and Barry recorded it as 'Who's the Fool Now?' |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: pavane Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:06 AM Thread Uncreep: The Dransfields - Rout of the Blues, 1970, I think |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Gurney Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:59 AM Back to the thread. It isn't fye, it is fie. Like many old words in English, this has several meanings. (1) True. (ie True, man, true) (2) Predestined. (3) A fairy. Don't quote me if you intend to sing this meaning in an UK pub. (4) A facetious exclamation of disapproval (ie Crap, man, crap) The Dict. of Archaic Words (1-2-3) and Collins (4) I've always understood that I'm singing (4) but after a few pints (1) also works. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: s&r Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:07 AM still creeping - this is in another thread vive le difference stu |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: s&r Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:43 AM still on thread: we always sang "every pull a bucket full" with a nice internal rhyme. Off thread my dictionary says that American is the English spoken in America. What are kettle chips??? |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Masterson Date: 26 Apr 04 - 03:21 AM Desperately trying to get thread back on course.......... It was very popular with Hartley Morris sessions back in the 70's. One extra verse added was: "I saw a snail drive a nail, faster than the British Rail." No change there then! |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 25 Apr 04 - 11:50 PM Real chips are double fried. The first deep frying seals the outside. They are then cooled, then the second deep frying cause the moisture to expand, giving you a crisp outer, with a moist soft delicous centre. The double frying also ensure that the temperature of teh oil does not drop, but is kept very high. Real chips are deep fried in Lard. If it is done right, very litle fat is absorbed, because firstly the high fat temperature seals the outside in the first deep frying too rapidly for the fat to be absorbed. The chips are then removed, allowing the fat to regain high temperature. The chips can then be kept for some hours, nowadays they even deep freeze them. The second frying, especially if they are deep frozen, produces magic light brown chips. There are slight modifications for chunky, normal and straw chips. Oven Bake chips are a different game. The right type of potato is essential too - the big fast food chains have actually spent heaps of money to get the right sort of potato. Robin (A Foodie!) |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: GUEST,leeneia Date: 25 Apr 04 - 08:33 PM Walrus, that is too much time, money and equipment to expend in making something that's not even good for people. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Walrus Date: 25 Apr 04 - 05:46 PM GUEST (04:08) You're Belgian? Ducking and running very very fast. Walrus By the bye, to make the best chips (yes real British chips, not those anaemic monstrosities made from re-processed dehydrated potato substitute that get sold as 'fries'), the freshly cut potato should be soaked in clean running water for about an hour (or two to three hours in still water changed frequently). |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: GUEST Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:08 PM If you go to Poland 'chipsis' will get you crisps and if you want what we English call chips you ask for 'fritkis'. Don't know why I told you that. Anyway, as we invented them, we can call them what we like - as can Americans, even though they are wrong. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 25 Apr 04 - 03:51 PM I'm bot planning on going. I'll just stay here where 250 million people know how to talk English. And an egg roll can be followed by some kung pao chicken. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: YorkshireYankee Date: 25 Apr 04 - 03:29 PM Case closed indeed, Martin... as long as you don't find yourself in England. I can guarantee you that if you come over here and ask for "chips", you will *not* get a bag containing very thin slices of potato cooked in oil -- regardless of what The Potato chip Institute has decreed. Also... if you ask for "egg roll", you will get... a fried egg -- placed between two halves of a bread roll! Cheers, YY who has been there, done that & decided *not* to get the tee-shirt |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:57 PM No, potato crisps are not potato chips. The product called Pringles are potatoe crisps. Pringles originally tried to pawn themselves off as potatoe chips, which are described by The Potato Chip Institute (yes, there is such a thing and it is a powerful organization that regulates quality in snack food) as slices of potato cooked in oil. Potato crisps are potatos, mashed and then machine formed and then cooked in oil. Every potato crisp is the same size and shape. The Potatoe Chip institue actually made Pringles change the name of their product. Case closed. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Peace Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:57 PM One people divided by a common language. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Micca Date: 25 Apr 04 - 12:30 PM what Americans call "Chips" are actually Crisps!!!! |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 25 Apr 04 - 11:49 AM Fries are not chips. Potato chips are chips. If frys are chips, what are chips? Start getting used to calling it fish and frys. Chips come in a bag. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Kevin Sheils Date: 25 Apr 04 - 05:53 AM I always thought Martin was the " boss" speaking to his man(ie. servant). Whilst this seems a reasonable interpretation DtG's posting above with it the other way round seems more likely to me, now that I read and think about it. On reflection in another use of the word "Man', in Lou Reed's "Waiting for The Man", it's obvious who the "boss" in that relationship is. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Les in Chorlton Date: 25 Apr 04 - 05:48 AM Thank you Malcolm, most helpful. How do you feel about what Jinky Wells and friends thought they were upto dancing them starnge dances? |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave Hanson Date: 25 Apr 04 - 03:57 AM They are NOT fries, they are called CHIPS and only we English know how to make them properly. eric |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Peace Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:34 AM Hey, Martin. The fries I mean usually come from small stands by the sides of highways in Quebec. The stands are called 'casse croutes' (sp?) and they are cut from potatoes like right there (or at least within the past hour. They are deep fried to a medium-dark brown and served with salt and vinegar. Ambrosia, sheer and utter. (That is not steer and udder.) Sometime in the future, you and I will have to get loose in Chicago AND Montreal to do the taste tests. However, it's beginning to seem to me that Chicago dogs would go very well with Quebec fries, and steamies with Chicago fries. Man, I am getting hungry. Later, buddy. Bruce M |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Melani Date: 25 Apr 04 - 01:19 AM We sing it at Ren faires. Elizabethans thought really silly, impossible stuff was funny (especially when drunk). |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 24 Apr 04 - 09:41 PM Hey Brucie Do they make fresh cut fries (not the frozen variety) that are not at all greasy and are a little crunch at the ends? These are the best I have found. Also a Chicago phenomenon is cheese fries, where auality hot melted cheddar, usually like the spreadable kind that comes in a plastic tub is pured over the fresh cut fries. Cheese fries, done right are divine. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Lighter Date: 24 Apr 04 - 09:20 PM Both volumes of Hart & Prior's "Folk Songs of Olde England" plus the equally great "Summer Solstice" are all currently available on ONE CD from the UK. A Google search should turn it up. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Peace Date: 24 Apr 04 - 09:04 PM Montreal (specifically the Province of Quebec) makes the best fries. (Martin don't you even THINK of startin'. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Once Famous Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:48 PM I just want you to know I never said this to any man. First of all, Chicagoans never say the word "fye" "Fry" yes. I have said that many times as they go quite well with a hot dog. I would not ever even consider saying "fye" to a woman, either. Thank you for reading this. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: yrlancslad Date: 24 Apr 04 - 08:21 PM I've been singing it so long I can't remember where I got it from, maybe Hart & Prior way back when. I always thought Martin was the " boss" speaking to his man(ie. servant). I saw a maid milk a bull Every SQUIRT a bucketfull..... is the way I have it, much more sugestive |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Dave the Gnome Date: 24 Apr 04 - 12:35 PM I'm led to believe that Martin's 'man' is in fact his master. Martin being the servant and taking the piss once his man has had a few too many. Can't remember where I heard that though... I saw a maid milk a bull every stroke a bucket full... Cheers DtG |
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Subject: RE: Tim Hart and Maddy Prior From: MickyMan Date: 24 Apr 04 - 12:02 PM Yes, Tim Hart and Maddy Prior definately used to sing it together on their immortal "Folk Songs Of Old England" recording (I think that was the name). This is an absolutely wonderful recording. Simply done with beautiful harmony singing. Before all of their rock influenced stuff. Is it available on CD? |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: Malcolm Douglas Date: 24 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM It's quite old as these things go, and was licensed to the publisher Thomas Orwin in 1588, though no broadside copies survive. It appeared in Thomas Ravenscroft's Deuteromelia (1609): Freemens songs of 4 Voices. ...and in various publications during the 17th century. A different tune, with the "wha's fu' now" refrain, appeared in Henry Playford's Original Scotch Tunes (1701); this seems to be the earliest version we have from Scotland, where it also appears in a number of guises. Ann Gilchrist (Journal of the English Folk Dance and Song Society, IV (3) 1942, 118-121) quotes examples from England and Scotland, and remarks on "...a confusion between 'fool' and 'full' (fou'=drunk) on one side or other of the Border", but draws no conclusions as to any "national" origin for the song and its relatives, pointing instead to the occurrence of similar songs and themes throughout Britain and Ireland, in most of the languages spoken here. |
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Subject: RE: Martin said to his man From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 24 Apr 04 - 09:59 AM It's allegedly an old Scottish song that the English stole, stuffed up the words, and now claim that it doesn't make any sense! The English thus claim that the song is about stupid fools. The alleged original had as a chorus "Who's fu' the noo?" - literally "Who's full now?" meaning "Who's drunk now?" The English botched it to "Who's the fool now?". When you look at this, the things traditionally sung as being seen are those a drunk traditionally sees, not a fool. Of course, a drunk may be a fool too, I suppose... Robin |
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